25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Because m/m and f/f weren't planned in ME2 so no need to record any lines. (The Shepard is probably a line from where they were thinking about it but ultimately scrapped it). On the other hand now they're actually considering it and since they want to respect characterization they're probaby *gasps* trying to see which LIs suit the s/s relationships!  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 juin 2011 - 02:49 .

[shepskisaac]

Ryzaki wrote...

Because m/m and f/f weren't planned in ME2 so no need to record any lines. (The Shepard is probably a line from where they were thinking about it but ultimately scrapped it). On the other hand now they're actually considering it and since they want to respect characterization they're probaby *gasps* trying to see which LIs suit the s/s relationships!  

I really doubt they're doing it in a "let's write and record 10 s/s romancs and then pick"  way but it doesn't matter. It's a very far-fetched assumption unsupported by anything. I'm gonna base my assumptions on someone who's actually working closely with BW and on the character itself.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 27 juin 2011 - 02:56 .

[Time4Tiddy]

IsaacShep wrote...

Time4Tiddy wrote...
Just because they've confirmed m/m romance and he's recorded a few lines doesn't mean he'll end up going gay.

Going bi you mean. As a gaymer you should know the difference.

Hah, I've argued before that LIs whose orientation depends on the gender of the player are bi and been slapped down for it.  I'm still waiting for the day when a full-on gay party member is added to a game.  One who is gay no matter what gender you are, talks about past same-sex relationships, and doesn't respond to opposite gender interest.  Leliana from DA:O was closest to this, if only they hadn't made her romanceable by a male Warden.

[Ryzaki]

IsaacShep wrote...
I really doubt they're doing it in a "let's write and record 10 s/s romancs and then pick"  way but it doesn't matter. It's a very far-fetched assumption unsupported by anything. I'm gonna base my assumptions on someone who's actually working closely with BW and on the character itself.

 

I never said they were gonna record 10 but by all means make exaggerations to try to get your point across. 

And go ahead I never said for you not to. Unlike you I'm not trying to force my opinion down someone else's throat. 

[shepskisaac]

Time4Tiddy wrote...
Hah, I've argued before that LIs whose orientation depends on the gender of the player are bi and been slapped down for it.  I'm still waiting for the day when a full-on gay party member is added to a game.  One who is gay no matter what gender you are, talks about past same-sex relationships, and doesn't respond to opposite gender interest.  Leliana from DA:O was closest to this, if only they hadn't made her romanceable by a male Warden.

Juhani in KOTOR 1. Of course if we're only talking BW games.

Ryzaki wrote...
And go ahead I never said for you not to. Unlike you I'm not trying to force my opinion down someone else's throat 

Lololol as if I didn't know what you're doing all the time in regards to Kaidan being s/s romance

Modifié par IsaacShep, 27 juin 2011 - 03:06 .

[Ryzaki]

Nope. I don't care either way. I can't stand Kaidan. I just said I wouldn't want it and don't feel that it fits the character. If you want to twist that into me attacking your OTP go ahead. 

As long as Kaidan's not assumed to be my Shepard's friend, doesn't come up with some BS "I loved you all along." that I can't avoid I don't care. If he does I'll be pissed off and try to off him as soon as possible. Otherwise no big deal. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 juin 2011 - 03:07 .

[Time4Tiddy]

IsaacShep wrote...

Time4Tiddy wrote...
Hah, I've argued before that LIs whose orientation depends on the gender of the player are bi and been slapped down for it.  I'm still waiting for the day when a full-on gay party member is added to a game.  One who is gay no matter what gender you are, talks about past same-sex relationships, and doesn't respond to opposite gender interest.  Leliana from DA:O was closest to this, if only they hadn't made her romanceable by a male Warden.

Juhani in KOTOR 1. Of course if we're only talking BW games.

Yes, she's like Leliana-lite.    But iirc doesn't she also indicate interest in a male Revan?  It's hard for me to remember, since I always played the game as female so I could get the sweet talk from Carth/Sbarge.

[DaeJi]

As progressive as a full on gay only party member would be, which already happened as IsaacShep pointed out, I prefer giving the player as many gameplay options as possible with every love interest being bisexual. It's a great way to use resources to ensure that everyone will get to be with the character they want to be with instead of have their choice made for them, especially in the case of same sex romances.

[Time4Tiddy]

DaeJi wrote...

As progressive as a full on gay only party member would be, which already happened as IsaacShep pointed out, I prefer giving the player as many gameplay options as possible with every love interest being bisexual. It's a great way to use resources to ensure that everyone will get to be with the character they want to be with instead of have their choice made for them, especially in the case of same sex romances.

While in theory I agree with this, I think it's more realistic and immersive to make some gay, some straight, and some bi.  Making everyone gender-optional with identical dialogue swapping pronouns really takes away from the depth of a romance and makes a character noticeably more shallow (since they can't have a past that includes any sort of romance).  It also implies that two men in a relationship act like a man and a woman, which is not the case.  Consider the Alistair romance in DA:O compared to any romance in DA:2.   

The exception to this is if they go in the direction of Jade Empire, where Sky had a deceased wife, but they actually wrote dialogue to show his progression from respect to curiousity to attraction.  I would love to have every character bisexual if they took that much care to explain how they came around to it.

[HopHazzard]

Time4Tiddy wrote...

The exception to this is if they go in the direction of Jade Empire, where Sky had a deceased wife, but they actually wrote dialogue to show his progression from respect to curiousity to attraction.  I would love to have every character bisexual if they took that much care to explain how they came around to it.

I've never understood this need that people seem to have for bisexuals to explain their orientation.

[shepskisaac]

Ryzaki wrote...

Nope. I don't care either way. I can't stand Kaidan.I just said I wouldn't want it and don't feel that it fits the character. If you want to twist that into me attacking your OTP go ahead. 

As long as Kaidan's not assumed to be my Shepard's friend, doesn't come up with some BS "I loved you all along." that I can't avoid I don't care. If he does I'll be pissed off and try to off him as soon as possible. Otherwise no big deal. 

Girl, just take a look at your own posts You're saying right now that if he confesses love to mShep you will try to off him as soon as possible? You can't stand him because he may be bisexual? You've basically turned into people you claim to oppose. Simply ridiculous.

Time4Tiddy wrote...
Yes, she's like Leliana-lite.    But iirc doesn't she also indicate interest in a male Revan?  It's hard for me to remember, since I always played the game as female so I could get the sweet talk from Carth/Sbarge.

Some of her lines could be interpreted as showing interest in male Revan. Early after the release it was possible to romance her as a male Revan and due to lack of gender-specific terms it didn't conflict at all, but then they've restricted her solely to a female Revan in a patch and said male romance was a bug. The general consensus after all of that is that she's a lesbian and BW wanted her to be one.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 27 juin 2011 - 03:25 .

[Ryzaki]

HopHazzard wrote...

Time4Tiddy wrote...

The exception to this is if they go in the direction of Jade Empire, where Sky had a deceased wife, but they actually wrote dialogue to show his progression from respect to curiousity to attraction.  I would love to have every character bisexual if they took that much care to explain how they came around to it.

I've never understood this need that people seem to have for bisexuals to explain their orientation.

 

Me neither. 

Should people start explaining why they're straight as well? 

[Red by Full Metal Jacket]

DaeJi wrote...

As progressive as a full on gay only party member would be, which already happened as IsaacShep pointed out, I prefer giving the player as many gameplay options as possible with every love interest being bisexual. It's a great way to use resources to ensure that everyone will get to be with the character they want to be with instead of have their choice made for them, especially in the case of same sex romances.

This smacks of laziness to me on the developers' parts. I would be glad if they actually added vastly different dialogue options and conversations for male and female paths.  However, Bioware mostly instead just makes a few pronoun changes and calls it a day.  It seems as they want to be inclusive but don't want to put the time and energy into it, in the name of "resources".

edit: This probably will bleed into the main game.  I bet you guys that Ash and Kaidan have the same "character quest" shared between them instead of, you know, making them different because they are wildly different characters.

Modifié par Red by Full Metal Jacket, 27 juin 2011 - 03:29 .

[Ryzaki]

 

IsaacShep wrote...
Girl, just take a look at your own posts You're saying right now that if he confesses love to mShep you will try to off him as soon as possible? You can't stand him because he may be bisexual? You've basically turned into people you claim to oppose. Simply ridiculous.

Holly jumping to conclusions batman!

No I wouldn't off him because he's bisexual. 

I'd off him if he started jumping down my throat about it. Ra forbid I kill a fictional character for shoving their crush down my throat.  If he has a crush and never brings it up unless dude Shep brings it up first I'm golden. The second I get a wiff of Tali though...one is enough thank you very much. I don't want anymore unrequited crushes shoved down my Shepard's throat. It's annoying. 

Simply ridculous? Changed into the people I claim to oppose? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 juin 2011 - 03:31 .

[shepskisaac]

Actually, nvm. I'm waiting for some relevant tea to appear here very soon

Modifié par IsaacShep, 27 juin 2011 - 03:34 .

[BrandNewMan]

Vehemently pushing for a particular character to be a s/s option does this thread, and the entire Fight for the Love campaign, an injustice.

[Ryzaki]

IsaacShep wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
No I wouldn't off him because he's bisexual.

Really? Then what's the other reason you happen to not be able to stand him right now, when info about his bisexuality begins to pour in? You were a BIG fan of him for years before that.

 

You must be joking. 

I stopped being a fan of him months ago. Way before his bisexuality started being rumored at. I stopped liking him when I replayed ME1 and realized how non-existant his relationship with my dude Shep (mine before you jump down my throat about YOUR Shepard) was and how utterly uninteresting I found him. Then I replayed ME2 got to Horizon and had a "...who the hell does he think he is?" moment with the screaming. And yeah that's pretty much when I started disliking him. Nothing to do with him being bisexual. That's utterly ridculous. Why would I slash someone then start disliking them when the slash became plausible? 

[Blacklash93]

So what do you guys think of James Vega from what little we know of him?

[Ryzaki]

Blacklash93 wrote...

So what do you guys think of James Vega from what little we know of him?

 

I hope he's Big Ben. I really do. 

That voice. 

[Abispa]

Red by Full Metal Jacket wrote...

This smacks of laziness to me on the developers' parts. I would be glad if they actually added vastly different dialogue options and conversations for male and female paths.  However, Bioware mostly instead just makes a few pronoun changes and calls it a day.  It seems as they want to be inclusive but don't want to put the time and energy into it, in the name of "resources".

I think it's a matter of time and resources. Chris Priestly is on record saying that if it were up to him, there would be NO romance options at all. ME isn't a dating simulator, after all, it's a game about you and your buddies committing genocide with machine guns, electronics and magic (whoops, sorry, biotic) powers. And now with improved melee.

Making a game like Mass Effect and Dragon Age, the developer has to decide just how much detail to put into romances and how many options to give the player, which increases cost, development time, and chances for game-breaking bugs.

I may demand an EPIC romance with Ashley...

...but I also realize that developers have to worry about angering fans of other LIs if their romance isn't as epic. Then you have to justify time and money spend on expanded options on characters that varying percentages of the fans might not even like, play, or even let live.

That's why I think fewer, better developed LIs is better, and in order to serve the demands of the most customers, the easiest thing to do would be to make them bisexual.

Just as long as aliens and god-like machines die spectacularly, I'm willing to consider the rest gravy. Though, I admit, I do spend a lot more time discussing gravy in these forums than strategy and party management.

[Spatchmo]

Time4Tiddy wrote...

It also implies that two men in a relationship act like a man and a woman, which is not the case.  Consider the Alistair romance in DA:O compared to any romance in DA:2.   

Actually I used the Free Love mod in DAO. Alistair actually works just as well as a gay romance, unless you're a human noble in which case the topic of having kids comes up or something. That's seriously the only time the dialogue didn't really fit.

[shepskisaac]

Ryzaki wrote...
I stopped being a fan of him months ago. Way before his bisexuality started being rumored at. I stopped liking him when I replayed ME1 and realized how non-existant his relationship with my dude Shep (mine before you jump down my throat about YOUR Shepard) was and how utterly uninteresting I found him. Then I replayed ME2 got to Horizon and had a "...who the hell does he think he is?" moment with the screaming. And yeah that's pretty much when I started disliking him. Nothing to do with him being bisexual. That's utterly ridculous. Why would I slash someone then start disliking them when the slash became plausible? 

Wait, so you only liked him as a romantic interest? LOL this is gold It'll tell ya that, if you spend as much time supporting Joker as you do fighting Kaidan, then maybe you will get what you want.

[Ryzaki]

IsaacShep wrote...Wait, so you only liked him as a romantic interest? LOL this is gold  It'll tell ya that, if you spend as much time supporting Joker as you do fighting Kaidan, then maybe you will get what you want.

 

Please tell me you're joking. I liked him as a character as well. Why on earth would I like him only as an LI? Becoming disillusioned with a character doesn't mean I only liked one facet of them to start with. Surely that's not some alien concept. 

I doubt it. I actually want Garrus as a s/s romance. But that as likely as them all being bisexual. Joker isn't likely either. 

But of course we all kow it's easier to assume what others want rather than asking and trying to get on your high horse. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 juin 2011 - 03:44 .

[Time4Tiddy]

Ryzaki wrote...

HopHazzard wrote...

I've never understood this need that people seem to have for bisexuals to explain their orientation.

 

Me neither. 

Should people start explaining why they're straight as well? 

I don't require people to explain why they are bisexual.  However, when a character (or person) presents themself as straight and then years later reveals that they are bisexual - and we've been friends the whole time - yeah I do hope there is some additional conversation.  Something beyond just, oh yeah I was always bisexual (AND ATTRACTED TO YOU!) it just never came up before even though I told you everything else about myself and my past and you're my most trusted friend. 

That's just lazy.

If they are bi, make them bi.  Not straight characters retconned into bisexuals and expect me to be overjoyed when they can't be bothered to create the most basic transitional dialogue.

Shepard:  I thought you were into women.
Kaidan:  So did I.
Shepard:  What changed?
Kaidan:  Once you were out of my life, I realized how important you were to me.  That it went beyond friendship.  I don't know what this means, but I'd like to find out.

There, 20 seconds (or less) of dialogue, and I would be satisfied.

[shepskisaac]

Ryzaki wrote...
Please tell me you're joking. I liked him as a character as well. Why on earth would I like him only as an LI? Becoming disillusioned with a character doesn't mean I only liked one facet of them to start with.

"I stopped liking him when I replayed ME1 and realized how non-existant his relationship with my dude Shep was and how utterly uninteresting I found him".
You said yourself you've de-liked him when you played an unmodded mShep who only has friendship with Kaidan. Seriously, that's what you've said. If you don't like someone on friendship level, means you only liked him on romantic level.

Ryzaki wrote...
I doubt it. I actually want Garrus as a s/s romance. But that as likely as them all being bisexual.

That's more likely than any other alien, considering he doesn't actually finds human attractive in general and basically goes for it because FemShep asks him.