25715 réponses à ce sujet

[shepskisaac]

Fiddles_stix wrote...
This does beg the question though... who proposes to whom?

Shepard obviously. It has to be the player's choice since quite alot of people don't want any wedding.

[Time4Tiddy]

Dhiro wrote...

We're just dancing in circles, here.

That must be why I'm so dizzy!! 
Nighty night.

[ElitePinecone]

This thread is going in interesting directions...

I would probably be disappointed if Kai Leng was an m/m bisexual love interest.

Sick and tired of the trope in Bioware games that assassins sent to kill the player can be turned against their former masters by the protagonist's sheer animal magnetism, and that they're also all depraved sex addicts with a borderline nihilistic personality.

Then there's the sheer brutality of his role in the novels. I don't think I could offer him any kind of redemption, let alone start anything to do with attraction.

[VirtualStranger]

My assessment of S/S romance potential in ME3:

Kaidan
Should he be? - MOST DEFINITELY, I don't think much more gay subtext could be written in their conversations before it stops being subtext and turns into plain text. Being a confirmed squadmate doesn't hurt, either
Will he be? - The odds are looking good so far.

Ashley
Should she be? - I actually don't have an honest opinion on that one, but since she's essentially Kaidan's replacement, and she seems to have the most supportfor s/s out of all of the female LIs, I'm going to go with a yes. The tone of their voices when exiting conversation in ME1 is pretty suggestive, too. Of course, she's going to be a full squaddie, so that bumps up her odds significantly.
Will she be? - I think the answer to this question is closely linked to Kaidan's status as a s/s option

Jacob
Should he be? - Don't really care.
Will he be? - I doubt they'll spend any more effort than they have to on such an unpopular LI choice.

Miranda
Should she be? - I think having her as a bi option would turn her into more of a fanservice magnet than she already is. As for her personally? I always saw her as straight. I can't imagine why her father would design her as anything other than straight, considering that she was supposed to "carry on his lineage." Others would probably disagree, though.
Will she be? - Probably not. Unless they decide to go for pure fanboy titillation

Thane
Should he be? - He was originally intended to be a s/s option before it was cut. The only problem is that he's going to die soon. If he was interested in maleShep, He would have said something by now.
Will he be? - Not likely.

Jack
Should she be? - YES. Seriously, she told you that she slept with a woman before.Then all of a sudden it's "I'm not into the girls club." The least they could do is give us a reasonable explanation for that, or it's just a glaring continuity error.
Will she be? - She's currently the least popular female LI in ME2, so I doubt it. I just want an explanation. Something along the lines of "I was in an experimentation phase" or "I was pressured into it" would suffice.

Garrus
Should he be?- Logically, yes. His species looks completely inhuman. Whatever it is that made Garrus receptive to Shepard's advances wouldn't have anything to do with gender. Unless Human females and Turian females have the exact same mannerisms.
Will he be? - Never going to happen.

Tali
Should she be? - Like Thane, she was originally intended to be a s/s option, and it shows. She gets very flustered around femShep about the whole "linking envirosuits" thing, right before cutting off the conversation and never speaking about it (or anything else, for that matter) again.
Will she be? - Unlike Thane, however, she is not suffering any long-term complications, and is apparently a confirmed full-time squadmember, so the odds are at least decent.

Modifié par VirtualStranger, 27 juin 2011 - 06:14 .

[Ryzaki]

ElitePinecone wrote...

This thread is going in interesting directions...

I would probably be disappointed if Kai Leng was an m/m bisexual love interest.

Sick and tired of the trope in Bioware games that assassins sent to kill the player can be turned against their former masters by the protagonist's sheer animal magnetism, and that they're also all depraved sex addicts with a borderline nihilistic personality.

Then there's the sheer brutality of his role in the novels. I don't think I could offer him any kind of redemption, let alone start anything to do with attraction.

 

Huh? There's only one example of that and that's Zevran. And Zevran was nowhere near as deliciously brutal as Kai Leng. 

That said I wouldn't be remiss to him being *an* option (I love my evil guys) but being *the* option? Hell no. If he's one of 2 or more then hell yes but as a sole option I wouldn't want him. 

I do hope if he is a option he doesn't become all "MY EVIL WAYS ARE GONE BECAUSE OF YOUR LUB!" I want him to stay psychotic so he and my Cerberus supporting renedouche can run off into the sunset with guns. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 juin 2011 - 06:08 .

[Dhiro]

Ryzaki wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

This thread is going in interesting directions...

I would probably be disappointed if Kai Leng was an m/m bisexual love interest.

Sick and tired of the trope in Bioware games that assassins sent to kill the player can be turned against their former masters by the protagonist's sheer animal magnetism, and that they're also all depraved sex addicts with a borderline nihilistic personality.

Then there's the sheer brutality of his role in the novels. I don't think I could offer him any kind of redemption, let alone start anything to do with attraction.

 

Huh? There's only one example of that and that's Zevran. And Zevran was nowhere near as deliciously brutal as Kai Leng. 

That said I wouldn't be remiss to him being *an* option (I love my evil guys) but being *the* option? Hell no. If he's one of 2 or more then hell yes but as a sole option I wouldn't want him. 

I do hope if he is a option he doesn't become all "MY EVIL WAYS ARE GONE BECAUSE OF YOUR LUB!" I want him to stay psychotic so he and my Cerberus supporting renedouche can run off into the sunset with guns. 

For a second I thought you had said 'lube'. Shame.

I don't know much about Kai Leng, but the little I know it's enough to say that my Paragay would probably kill him without any hesitation. So, while I don't mind him being a s/s option, I'm against him being the only option.

[Dhiro]

Fiddles_stix wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Fiddles_stix wrote...
This does beg the question though... who proposes to whom?

Shepard obviously. It has to be the player's choice since quite alot of people don't want any wedding.

True but I see no reason why an LI couldn't push for it or at least hint at it. Besides there has to be the option to say no.

Because having your marriage proposal being refused usually make the proposer very, very sad. While I can see a option to say you're just not ready yet, it has the potential to make a relationship very awkward.

[Ryzaki]

Dhiro wrote...
For a second I thought you had said 'lube'. Shame.

I don't know much about Kai Leng, but the little I know it's enough to say that my Paragay would probably kill him without any hesitation. So, while I don't mind him being a s/s option, I'm against him being the only option.

 Well that too. 

My paragon would try to reform him. I want my paragon to have to taste the delicious taste of failure. 

[ElitePinecone]

Ryzaki wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

This thread is going in interesting directions...

I would probably be disappointed if Kai Leng was an m/m bisexual love interest.

Sick and tired of the trope in Bioware games that assassins sent to kill the player can be turned against their former masters by the protagonist's sheer animal magnetism, and that they're also all depraved sex addicts with a borderline nihilistic personality.

Then there's the sheer brutality of his role in the novels. I don't think I could offer him any kind of redemption, let alone start anything to do with attraction.

 

Huh? There's only one example of that and that's Zevran. And Zevran was nowhere near as deliciously brutal as Kai Leng. 

That said I wouldn't be remiss to him being *an* option (I love my evil guys) but being *the* option? Hell no. If he's one of 2 or more then hell yes but as a sole option I wouldn't want him. 

I do hope if he is a option he doesn't become all "MY EVIL WAYS ARE GONE BECAUSE OF YOUR LUB!" I want him to stay psychotic so he and my Cerberus supporting renedouche can run off into the sunset with guns. 

Jade Empire features a bisexual assassin-turned-party member love interest, if I rememeber correctly. 

I might've been snarky in that comment; I could definitely see him as an option (although I'd find it a tired trope and somewhat unrealsitic, given that he's an ideologue) but I would find it very difficult if he were the only option. 

And yeah, I agree, "I've changed because you showed me the truth of Cerberus" is a cop-out option. He's been an assassin and Cerberus lackey for decades; he's not going to change the basis of his entire life's work and views just because Shepard talks to him. 

I'm actually hoping he becomes a Saren-esque villain, someone who personifies the misguided (or guided, depending on your view) idealism of Cerberus. Or he could just be a psychotic butcher. We need a human major antagonist who actually has a rationale for what they're doing, and won't crumble at the first sight of some Shepard-lovin'. 

[Ryzaki]

ElitePinecone wrote...
Jade Empire features a bisexual assassin-turned-party member love interest, if I rememeber correctly. 

I might've been snarky in that comment; I could definitely see him as an option (although I'd find it a tired trope and somewhat unrealsitic, given that he's an ideologue) but I would find it very difficult if he were the only option. 

And yeah, I agree, "I've changed because you showed me the truth of Cerberus" is a cop-out option. He's been an assassin and Cerberus lackey for decades; he's not going to change the basis of his entire life's work and views just because Shepard talks to him. 

I'm actually hoping he becomes a Saren-esque villain, someone who personifies the misguided (or guided, depending on your view) idealism of Cerberus. Or he could just be a psychotic butcher. We need a human major antagonist who actually has a rationale for what they're doing, and won't crumble at the first sight of some Shepard-lovin'. 

Uh...no it doesn't. I've played JE like a crazy person and no one was an assassin. You got Sky the rogue and Silk Fox who isn't an assassin just dresses like one. The only game with a bisexual assassin that I recall is DAO. Juhani was a Sith, Silk Fox wasn't evil and hadn't killed anyone innocent (hell that's the reason she's stalking you is because she thinks the PC killed innocents), Sky hasn't either (he just sticks to stealing and gutting slavers unless you CF him). So...yeah. No bisexual assassins to be found.  Bisexual rogues on the other hand are bloody everywhere. 
If he was the only option I'd kick my computer out a window.  Being *a* option though...that works. And exactly him changing is not desired. 

It would be nice if he could be a companion but one whose ideas you could never change. A sad wake up call for my Paragon!Shep whose used to changing everyone for the better. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 juin 2011 - 06:25 .

[ladyofpayne]

VirtualStranger wrote...

My assessment of S/S romance potential in ME3:

Kaidan
Should he be? - MOST DEFINITELY, I don't think much more gay subtext could be written in their conversations before it stops being subtext and turns into plain text. Being a confirmed squadmate doesn't hurt, either
Will he be? - The odds are looking good so far.

Ashley
Should she be? - I actually don't have an honest opinion on that one, but since she's essentially Kaidan's replacement, and she seems to have the most supportfor s/s out of all of the female LIs, I'm going to go with a yes. The tone of their voices when exiting conversation in ME1 is pretty suggestive, too. Of course, she's going to be a full squaddie, so that bumps up her odds significantly.
Will she be? - I think the answer to this question is closely linked to Kaidan's status as a s/s option

Jacob
Should he be? - Don't really care.
Will he be? - I doubt they'll spend any more effort than they have to on such an unpopular LI choice.

Miranda
Should she be? - I think having her as a bi option would turn her into more of a fanservice magnet than she already is. As for her personally? I always saw her as straight. I can't imagine why her father would design her as anything other than straight, considering that she was supposed to "carry on his lineage." Others would probably disagree, though.
Will she be? - Probably not. Unless they decide to go for pure fanboy titillation

Thane
Should he be? - He was originally intended to be a s/s option before it was cut. The only problem is that he's going to die soon. If he was interested in maleShep, He would have said something by now.
Will he be? - Not likely.

Jack
Should she be? - YES. Seriously, she told you that she slept with a woman before.Then all of a sudden it's "I'm not into the girls club." The least they could do is give us a reasonable explanation for that, or it's just a glaring continuity error.
Will she be? - She's currently the least popular female LI in ME2, so I doubt it. I just want an explanation. Something along the lines of "I was in an experimentation phase" or "I was pressured into it" would suffice.

Garrus
Should he be?- Logically, yes. His species looks completely inhuman. Whatever it is that made Garrus receptive to Shepard's advances wouldn't have anything to do with gender. Unless Human females and Turian females have the exact same mannerisms.
Will he be? - Never going to happen.

Tali
Should she be? - Like Thane, she was originally intended to be a s/s option, and it shows. She gets very flustered around femShep about the whole "linking envirosuits" thing, right before cutting off the conversation and never speaking about it (or anything else, for that matter) again.
Will she be? - Unlike Thane, however, she is not suffering any long-term complications, and is apparently a confirmed full-time squadmember, so the odds are at least decent.

Kaidan was too feminity. I believe in him. Ash... I hope on her and Mirri.  Jackob need to be getting with MShep's spaceship:devil:. Thayne's job like Zevran, I think he is BI. Garrus and Tali I don't believe. 

[ElitePinecone]

Fiddles_stix wrote...
True but I see no reason why an LI couldn't push for it or at least hint at it. Besides there has to be the option to say no.

This is a great option, but I think Bioware would want to steer clear of the absurd amount of socio-political baggage that this issue has, especially in contemporary debates (e.g. New York the other day). 

Putting in s/s weddings would lead to a flood (and I mean a flood) of complaints and media interest from the more hyperbolic blogs, especially among the US Right. The attention Mass Effect got for its relatively tame alien love scenes (anyone remember 'virtual orgasmic rape'?) would be nothing compared to the vitriol that would emerge if actual weddings were in the game. 

Some sort of commitment ceremony would be great, though. Or one last scene with the LI as the Normandy flies off into the sunset. But calling it 'marriage' is a recipe for a PR nightmare. 

I'm not saying Bioware should cave in to the insane arbiters of moral outrage, but they have to be realistic. 

Even including 'weddings' for opposite-sex romance would be problematic. It would invite comparisons as to why not every companion can have the option, and (in my view) inevitably launch the same sort of media attention that I predicted above. 

It's easier to steer clear of the whole issue entirely, and have the culmination scene as a ceremony surrounded by friends rather than calling it a wedding or marriage. 

[Dhiro]

ladyofpayne wrote...

VirtualStranger wrote...

My assessment of S/S romance potential in ME3:
-snip-

Kaidan was too feminity. I believe in him. Ash... I hope on her and Mirri.  Jackob need to be getting with MShep's spaceship:devil:. Thayne's job like Zevran, I think he is BI. Garrus and Tali I don't believe. 

What does Thane's job have to do with his sexual orientation? Or Kaidan being 'feminity'?

[KawaiiKatie]

VirtualStranger wrote...

My assessment of S/S romance potential in ME3:

*LIST SNIP*

Your list seems pretty reasonable, and I agree with it for the most part. Personally, I didn't feel like Jack sexuality needed any more "explanation." I honestly feel like the explanation is in the subtext of her conversations, so even without a direct answer, her sexuality has always been clear to me... but as a player who has romanced her many times as a manShep, I could be biased. I accept that there are different interpretations for Jack and her sexuality.

Anyway, about Jacob.... He's not my first choice for a same-sex male love-interest, but I feel that one could build a strong case for him, if only because he never shows an interest in femShep unless she flirts with him. Who knows how he would have responded to manShep's advances? :happy:

[shepskisaac]

Montezuma IV wrote...

Tali propose for ME3

Talimancers would rejoice, Talihaters would explode

[Zeratul20]

VirtualStranger wrote...

My assessment of S/S romance potential in ME3:

Kaidan
Should he be? - MOST DEFINITELY, I don't think much more gay subtext could be written in their conversations before it stops being subtext and turns into plain text. Being a confirmed squadmate doesn't hurt, either
Will he be? - The odds are looking good so far.

I don't really agree on this one. With respect, I don't think being sensitive and caring generally has to mean the person is gay, nor did I feel that his dialogue options contained an overtly ******-erotic subtext (seeing as the conversations he had with FemShep were somewhat different, in crucial aspects).
Or are you referring to something else, which I've missed? (This is not meant as a sarcastic retort, but as an actual question.)

On another note: I definitely do not believe that this would make too "feminine" or effeminate, as someone else posted. I'd also like to point out that not all homosexuals emulate stereotypes typically associated with the other gender.

Personally, I'm still a bit on the fence about altering existing characters to allow for S/S romances. If it's done in a sensible way, however, without radically altering the character itself, that'd be fine. (Mind you, I applaud the introduction of S/S romances, even if I won't be exploring that particular option myself.)

Modifié par Zeratul20, 27 juin 2011 - 06:50 .

[shepskisaac]

Zeratul20 wrote...
Or are you referring to something else, which I've missed? (This is not meant as a sarcastic retort, but as an actual question.)

- "Losing you was like losing a limb... Why didn't you call me?!?!?" on Horizon
- Shepard's "Alenko, when it's just you and me, you can consider it off the record" (Shepard's tone in this line is seriously suggestive)
- "Sorry if I got too informal Commander, protocol wasn't a big focus back at BAaT"

+ The way the scene when Shepard walks up to Kaidan to talk to him every time on the Normandy. I mean the loghting, the body movements, the pacing screamed 'love interest!' for many people, including straight guys. Just a few example off the top of my head.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 27 juin 2011 - 06:50 .

[Zeratul20]

IsaacShep wrote...

Zeratul20 wrote...
Or are you referring to something else, which I've missed? (This is not meant as a sarcastic retort, but as an actual question.)

- "Losing you was like losing a limb... Why didn't you call me?!?!?" on Horizon
- Shepard's "Alenko, when it's just you and me, you can consider it off the record" (Shepard's tone in this line is seriously suggestive)
- "Sorry if I got too informal Commander, protocol wasn't a big focus back at BAaT"

+ The way the scene when Shepard walks up to Kaidan to talk to him every time on the Normandy. I mean the loghting, the body movements, the pacing screamed 'love interest!' for many people, including straight guys. Just a few example off the top of my head.

To be honest, I never had that feeling myself. Admittedly, I never had that conversation on Horizon.
I never felt Shepard's tone and body language to be anything more than what you'd use among friends. But I suppose that is mostly subjective. (And seeing as I don't tend to notice IRL when people try to flirt anyway, I might not be the best person to judge that.)

[Ryzaki]

@Zeratul20: Don't worry about it. I don't see anything remotely suggestive either. To each their own.

I'd die laughing if Conrad was a Kelly like LI for both Sheps though.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 juin 2011 - 06:54 .

[VirtualStranger]

Zeratul20 wrote...

VirtualStranger wrote...

My assessment of S/S romance potential in ME3:

Kaidan
Should he be? - MOST DEFINITELY, I don't think much more gay subtext could be written in their conversations before it stops being subtext and turns into plain text. Being a confirmed squadmate doesn't hurt, either
Will he be? - The odds are looking good so far.

I don't really agree on this one. With respect, I don't think being sensitive and caring generally has to mean the person is gay, nor did I feel that his dialogue options contained an overtly ******-erotic subtext (seeing as the conversations he had with FemShep were somewhat different, in crucial aspects). Or are you referring to something else, which I've missed? (This is not meant as a sarcastic retort, but as an actual question.)

I'm not talking about his personality, and I never meant to imply that being "sensitive and caring" makes someone gay. I was just talking about the overall feel of his conversations with Shepard. The tone of his voice, his body language, things like that. You know, "subtext" in the "Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy" kind of way.

I never got the whole "sensitive and caring" thing anyway. I don't see it. If anything, he's very straightforward about his views and has a good sense of perspective on the world around him.

Modifié par VirtualStranger, 27 juin 2011 - 06:58 .

[Zeratul20]

VirtualStranger wrote...

I never got the whole "sensitive and caring" thing anyway. I don't see it. If anything, he's very straightforward about his veiws and has a good sense of perspective on the world around him.

(As for the body language aspect: see my earlier post.)

Understandably so. I think people mainly see him as Ashley's antithesis. Whereas Ashley's slow to trust and generally wary of "aliens" (and can be convinced otherwise, at least partially), Kaidan recognizes that they're not so different from us... Hence, he is "sensitive and caring", rather than "rough and mistrusting." It's an overgeneralisation, I think.

[shepskisaac]

Zeratul20 wrote...
Understandably so. I think people mainly see him as Ashley's antithesis. Whereas Ashley's slow to trust and generally wary of "aliens" (and can be convinced otherwise, at least partially), Kaidan recognizes that they're not so different from us... Hence, he is "sensitive and caring", rather than "rough and mistrusting." It's an overgeneralisation, I think.

I would call a person like that simply "smart", with a good grasp at life and reality and not quick to judge.