25715 réponses à ce sujet

[SilentNukee]

Clonedzero wrote...

i just wanna go on record here.

yay for gay / bi relationships in ME3 with new characters.

a big fat NAY for changing / rewriting established characters.

It's not "rewriting established characters" sigh...

[bleetman]

Ryzaki wrote...

Hell Isay the romances theselves were done better in DA2 than ME and ME2. At least I didn't get someone thinking we were an item because I wanted to dicuss their family. 

Y'know, I'd have to agree. As much as I saw all that criticism about Anders hitting on player characters the one time and how apparently unbareable it was to deal with, romance interests have been doing exactly the same thing for years before DA2 came along. I'm looking at you, Liara T'soni.

Letting him or any of the others down doesn't cause him to verbally seize up for the entire rest of the game, either.

[ScotGaymer]

FrozenFire42 wrote...

Call me a sap (I prefer the term "hopeless romantic" ) but I think a conversation along these lines could actually be quite touching if done well. Also, terrible and campy if done wrong, but I like to think I have faith in the writers.

Also, if they add Kaidan s/s, I won't have to go through the game with everyone calling my manshep "ma'am". Yay!

Yeah.

Like i said Kaidan seemed to flirt with MaleShep at least as far as I could tell, on a few occasions in ME1 and so seems the likeliest for the "retconning" of him into bisexual.
Not sure about Ashley as I havent played FemShep.

[TheMarshal]

SilentNukee wrote...

If they make Tali an option, I'll be very happy.
My canon playthrough is 100% loyal to Liara, though.

I have a femShep concept for every female LI except for Jack.  I'd be stoked for a Tali s/s romance in ME3!

[paptschik]

Siansonea II wrote...

@paptschik: Discussing different ideas for implementation is fine. Stating a preference for one type of implementation over another is fine too. But we've all seen how the conversation can fall apart over trivial things. The purpose of the thread is for people who support s/s inclusion to discuss different ways for it to be implemented, without all the distractions and derailments of the previous thread. Basically, if you think something will sound offensive, chances are it will sound offensive, and the chances are even greater that it will be off-topic. I just want this to be a safe, supportive environment, not a battlefield.

It should be noted that much of what we are discussing is pure speculation, especially with regards to existing characters. Stating that you would prefer new characters as opposed to existing characters is perfectly legitimate and on-topic, and many here would agree with your stance, even.

The offensive bit isn't my problem. If I say "I don't want character x to be bi because in my head he/she is straight" that shouldn't be offensive, because it makes about as much sense as people saying "in my head he/she is bi". I think we can all live with others having different views.

But thanks for clearing that up, since the existing characters vs. new characters thing is more or less my whole situation. Well, mostly. As I said, I could see it for some and wouldn't care with others...I just have my small number of characters where I want my headcanon to end up correct. (which is really self-centered, but..eh, no but, it just is, I don't deny it)

[KawaiiKatie]

FrozenFire42 wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

But if not I would like Kaidan to realise he actually is kind of really in love with ManShep and has been since ME1, and is a complete idiot for not realising lol.

Call me a sap (I prefer the term "hopeless romantic" ) but I think a conversation along these lines could actually be quite touching if done well. Also, terrible and campy if done wrong, but I like to think I have faith in the writers.

Also, if they add Kaidan s/s, I won't have to go through the game with everyone calling my manshep "ma'am". Yay!

Yessssssss. This could be done so well. Especially if manShep was given the option to say some to the effect of, "I feel the same way. I've wanted you for a long time."

I would die from happines. Well-written Kaidan/M!Shep that acknowelges how long it took them to get together? That would make my ME3.

[Darkhour]

paptschik wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

FrozenFire42 wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Genly wrote...

Yes! I think DA2 is the Bioware game that better handled characters interactions / romance, which includes comments even from other NPCs. I laughed hard when uncle Gamlen said: "So, you're into elves, huh? I guess I don't have to ask which one of you's the girl." when manHawke romances Fenris. I think ME3 team can learn a lot from DA2 in this aspect.

DA2 was horrible. They weren't romances. They were play toys. You hit heart dialog and sexy time ensues. I "romanced" Merrill with a single comment. DA:O was way better. Leliana/Morrigan were done waaaaaaaaay better. Leliana's ninja romance was bad, but that was a bug that they never bothered to fix. Not intentional.

Fact, yes, but Genly wasn't referencing the romances themselves, but rather, how the game world reacts to them (at least, that's what I inferred). That was done better in DA2, especially for s/s.

 

Hell Isay the romances theselves were done better in DA2 than ME and ME2. At least I didn't get someone thinking we were an item because I wanted to dicuss their family.  

That said yay for new (and hot and interesting and with sexy accents) LIs! (who are hopefully m/m and f/f only) 

I don't even get everyones problems with the DA2 romances. I liked them a lot. I loved that some of the cast moved in with you, I loved little bits like the LI coming to you after the All That Remains quest...generally it felt more like the characters had a real life and cared about Hawke, as friends or lover, either way, instead of just standing in the same damn spot 24/7 and only coming up for some "hey, we're gonna die, so last chance!"-sex.

The romances themselves weren't horrible. It's just the way you become involved. There was no romance. You just pick a conversation and - BAM - they're at your door ready to hope in the sack. I treated Merrill like a stupid child (which she acts like), but I used a heart option to see where it would go (I wouldn't let her use that elf thingy). The comment wasn't particularly romantic. Hawke said he was worried about her. That was it. It went from no romance at all to her showing up for sexy time 5 minutes later.

[shepskisaac]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Yessssssss. This could be done so well. Especially if manShep was given the option to say some to the effect of, "I feel the same way. I've wanted you for a long time."

I would die from happines. Well-written Kaidan/M!Shep that acknowelges how long it took them to get together? That would make my ME3.

Quoting for freaking DA TRUTH! Make it happen BW, give us our Kaidan!

[SilentNukee]

TheMarshal wrote...

SilentNukee wrote...

If they make Tali an option, I'll be very happy.
My canon playthrough is 100% loyal to Liara, though.

I have a femShep concept for every female LI except for Jack.  I'd be stoked for a Tali s/s romance in ME3!

Lol, prepared aren't we?

[ScotGaymer]

I also dont get the whole "we hate Kaidan cos hes a whiner" thing.

Never did i ever see Kaidan whine at all. Carth was the whiner. People seem to equate Carth with Kaidan cos it was the same VA (Raphael Sbarge).

[Darkhour]

jlb524 wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

But DA:O has plenty of party interactions involving your relationship. Alistair and Wynee have full blown discussions with the player character about it.  All of them save Sten (can't remember if shale said anything) at least commented on it. At least I never heard Sten comment on it. I think DA:O handled romances the best.

Not for the FemWarden/Leliana romance...there's none...no party banter at all.

Really??? One of Wynne's conversations is about your LI and how it probably won't work out then another one later down the line where she appologizes and supports it.  That is odd.  But you do get them for Zevran and Alistair?  

[Siansonea]

paptschik wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

@paptschik: Discussing different ideas for implementation is fine. Stating a preference for one type of implementation over another is fine too. But we've all seen how the conversation can fall apart over trivial things. The purpose of the thread is for people who support s/s inclusion to discuss different ways for it to be implemented, without all the distractions and derailments of the previous thread. Basically, if you think something will sound offensive, chances are it will sound offensive, and the chances are even greater that it will be off-topic. I just want this to be a safe, supportive environment, not a battlefield.

It should be noted that much of what we are discussing is pure speculation, especially with regards to existing characters. Stating that you would prefer new characters as opposed to existing characters is perfectly legitimate and on-topic, and many here would agree with your stance, even.

The offensive bit isn't my problem. If I say "I don't want character x to be bi because in my head he/she is straight" that shouldn't be offensive, because it makes about as much sense as people saying "in my head he/she is bi". I think we can all live with others having different views.

But thanks for clearing that up, since the existing characters vs. new characters thing is more or less my whole situation. Well, mostly. As I said, I could see it for some and wouldn't care with others...I just have my small number of characters where I want my headcanon to end up correct. (which is really self-centered, but..eh, no but, it just is, I don't deny it)

The way you phrased that statement isn't inherently offensive, you are correct. But others can be rather indelicate in their expression of a negative opinion, and that's what I hope to avoid. The bottom line is our perception of the characters is inherently subjective, and we interpret everything they say and do differently. Each interpretation is valid for each person, and none invalidates the interpretation of another person. BioWare is the custodian of these characters, and they will grow (hopefully) in many ways in ME3, not just within the context of romance. Chances are, we aren't going to like some of those story points, romance-related or not, but hopefully even the ones we dislike will be handled with quality writing.

[Clonedzero]

SilentNukee wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

i just wanna go on record here.

yay for gay / bi relationships in ME3 with new characters.

a big fat NAY for changing / rewriting established characters.

It's not "rewriting established characters" sigh...

characters should be written with a sexuality in mind. it should be clear what that is, if iheres a secret about that, like they're hiding or something then it's a major character plot point. unnecessary and trivial in a sci-fi like ME.

adding in the fact that they're gay/bi in the third game is a bad choice. they shouldnt have a character and force them to be bi and then write a cheap explaination why, it cheapens the character and all the development they've made so far.

and why not this comprimise? leave established characters alone and have 2-3 male and 2-3 female s/s options as new characters who are written with that in mind so it works alot better and actually makes sense.

[paptschik]

LordJeyl wrote...

paptschik wrote...
I'm not against s/s at all so I don't want a anti-s/s thread, I'm just also one of those people with certain ideas of how characters are and I'm not fond of being told "tough luck, you're wrong", so in the end out of personal preference I'd like certain characters to be straight, frankly don't care with most and could see it with some (like Kaiden...I guess you could argue Jack, though I still see her as a character that tried same sex relationships and didn't get much out of it or just prefers men).
Would voicing such opinions be ok for the thread or not?

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to bring this up in a thread. I certainly understand and respect where you're coming from, but discussions like this always boil down to the same thing in the end. You have problems with the possibility of characters who you thought were straight being romanced by a same-sex Shepard. That's not what this forum is about. I just want to keep the possibilities of s/s relationships with characters in ME3 positive, even for characters who we probably won't be able to have a relationship with.

And then there would be the issue...where COULD be the place for such an opinion? I think creating a topic solely for one view on the situation would be kinda silly but again, discussing it in an anti-s/s thread would leave me feeling thrown on a pile along with people I really really don't want to be grouped with because they tend to go down a road of hatred I don't care to follow them on.

[Siansonea]

Darkhour wrote...
*snip*
The romances themselves weren't horrible. It's just the way you become involved. There was no romance. You just pick a conversation and - BAM - they're at your door ready to hope in the sack. I treated Merrill like a stupid child (which she acts like), but I used a heart option to see where it would go (I wouldn't let her use that elf thingy). The comment wasn't particularly romantic. Hawke said he was worried about her. That was it. It went from no romance at all to her showing up for sexy time 5 minutes later.

I also thought that could have been handled better.

[TheMarshal]

SilentNukee wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...

SilentNukee wrote...

If they make Tali an option, I'll be very happy.
My canon playthrough is 100% loyal to Liara, though.

I have a femShep concept for every female LI except for Jack.  I'd be stoked for a Tali s/s romance in ME3!

Lol, prepared aren't we?

To be fair...

Liara: Alice (canon)
Miranda/Ashley: ****y, cocky, renegade-y spacer/war-hero vanguard
Tali: Dutiful, paragon-y engineer

So it's really only two other Shepards 

Modifié par TheMarshal, 13 juin 2011 - 11:47 .

[jlb524]

Darkhour wrote...
Really??? One of Wynne's conversations is about your LI and how it probably won't work out then another one later down the line where she appologizes and supports it.  That is odd.  But you do get them for Zevran and Alistair?  

Everyone gets the Wynne thing, but there's no party banter and no further comment on it.

There was a lot  more with my Lady Hawke/Merrill romance in DA2 (Isabela/Varric/Anders all commented on it in dialog and banter).

No clue about Zevran/Alistair.

[bleetman]

Darkhour wrote...

Really??? One of Wynne's conversations is about your LI and how it probably won't work out then another one later down the line where she appologizes and supports it.  That is odd.  But you do get them for Zevran and Alistair?  

Wynne still does that regarding Leliana, yes. There's also a quick talk from Morrigan about it. What you don't get are any party banters or similiar, like you do for the other three. Heck, Alistair has half a dozen of them or so relating to his romance.

I can't say I lost any sleep over it, but there you go.

[LordJeyl]

Clonedzero wrote...
yay for gay / bi relationships in ME3 with new characters.

a big fat NAY for changing / rewriting established characters.

.... so it's male/female Kelly Chambers characters all around then? I don't think Kelly Chambers was fondly remembered as a good love interest. The only productive thing to come out of that romance was an automatic fish feeder. Not saying that I hated Kelly as a character. I actually loved some of the interactions between her and my FemShep (I'm right here. *hug*). I just hated how the romance never went deeper than Kelly being a Yeoman who's there just to please the Captain.

[paptschik]

Darkhour wrote...


The romances themselves weren't horrible. It's just the way you become involved. There was no romance. You just pick a conversation and - BAM - they're at your door ready to hope in the sack. I treated Merrill like a stupid child (which she acts like), but I used a heart option to see where it would go (I wouldn't let her use that elf thingy). The comment wasn't particularly romantic. Hawke said he was worried about her. That was it. It went from no romance at all to her showing up for sexy time 5 minutes later.

Ok, that I can see being an issue. It's just something I never even saw in the game. I am a sucker for happy-happy-joy-joy romances, so on my two playthroughs so far my two FemHawkes had a friendship romance with Merrill and Fenris respectively and my first male Hawke will friendship romance Isabela. So I get more build up to the stuff because, well, to me Hawke has been flirting all the way up to that point.
I do like that starting a romance is fairly simple and you don't have to have done this and that specifically, but I do think that in that case, yes, there should be more dialog involved to make it feel right.

[jlb524]

Darkhour wrote...

The romances themselves weren't horrible. It's just the way you become involved. There was no romance. You just pick a conversation and - BAM - they're at your door ready to hope in the sack. I treated Merrill like a stupid child (which she acts like), but I used a heart option to see where it would go (I wouldn't let her use that elf thingy). The comment wasn't particularly romantic. Hawke said he was worried about her. That was it. It went from no romance at all to her showing up for sexy time 5 minutes later.

I think it make sense given the character (with the others, I think you need to pick the hearts multiple times in order to get romance, or you have to choose specific hearts).

I'm not sure if it's any different from having to pick the 'right' option in Leliana's romance to activate it, for example.

[LordJeyl]

bleetman wrote...
Wynne still does that regarding Leliana, yes. There's also a quick talk from Morrigan about it. What you don't get are any party banters or similiar, like you do for the other three. Heck, Alistair has half a dozen of them or so relating to his romance.

I'm glad it was more flexible in DA2. Despite not being gender specific, I did enjoy the "I love Hawke" banter from Merrill in regards to my FemHawke when she was asked why she's still in the party despite the dangers.

[Darkhour]

Clonedzero wrote...

i just wanna go on record here.

yay for gay / bi relationships in ME3 with new characters.

a big fat NAY for changing / rewriting established characters.

I got the impression they wouldn;t change established sexualities.

But then again, other things Hudson says sounds like everyone will be gay like DA2 and the player has to initiate the romance (i.e to prevent s/s flirting aimed at Shepard). There are so many unknowns out there. There is no reason to change people's established orientation. It would be better if there were gay squadmate(s) who is only for men. And female(s) who is only for women. A 100% gay road is just tacky.

[Siansonea]

paptschik wrote...

LordJeyl wrote...

paptschik wrote...
I'm not against s/s at all so I don't want a anti-s/s thread, I'm just also one of those people with certain ideas of how characters are and I'm not fond of being told "tough luck, you're wrong", so in the end out of personal preference I'd like certain characters to be straight, frankly don't care with most and could see it with some (like Kaiden...I guess you could argue Jack, though I still see her as a character that tried same sex relationships and didn't get much out of it or just prefers men).
Would voicing such opinions be ok for the thread or not?

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to bring this up in a thread. I certainly understand and respect where you're coming from, but discussions like this always boil down to the same thing in the end. You have problems with the possibility of characters who you thought were straight being romanced by a same-sex Shepard. That's not what this forum is about. I just want to keep the possibilities of s/s relationships with characters in ME3 positive, even for characters who we probably won't be able to have a relationship with.

And then there would be the issue...where COULD be the place for such an opinion? I think creating a topic solely for one view on the situation would be kinda silly but again, discussing it in an anti-s/s thread would leave me feeling thrown on a pile along with people I really really don't want to be grouped with because they tend to go down a road of hatred I don't care to follow them on.

I think it's okay to state a preference for one form of implementation over another, it's not my goal to make people feel like they can't discuss one form of implementation or another. But a person's presence in this thread implies that they do support some form of same-sex inclusion, and it is perfectly acceptable to state your reasons for preferring one type of implementation over another. I only ask that people be respectful to one another, and I think that's reasonable. Not everyone will agree on the best form of implementation, nor should we be expected to. But we can all agree that this is a wonderful thing that BioWare is doing, and be supportive of one another's right to have a different favored choice.