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[brain_damage]

bleetman wrote...


On that note, old ones are still good ones.

http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/image/481

Oh god, Shep and the chosen LI are going to have sex IN FULL ARMOR.

[Dhiro]

I was considering a master-pupil relationship with Vega, actually. He is a Alliance soldier, and Jacob says for some time that Shepard was the poster-person for the Alliance for some time. He is a veteran, though, so I suppose who's the poster-boy don't really matter.

I wouldn't be surprised if Vega had some admiration for Shepard, one that maybe could turn into something more.

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

ElitePinecone wrote...

A bisexual badass space marine would be atypical for the genre and would subvert a lot of the conventions, but frankly it's far *less* likely than him just being a vehicle for new (shooter-y) players to get accustomed to the game through something they're familiar with - bulked up, hypermasculine soldier. 

 

Honestly, I am seriously hoping Bioware bites the bullet and makes Vega exclusively gay, because A) they haven't (to my knowledge) had an exclusively gay party member yet, and he already has a fauxhawk. And, of course, being bulked-up and hypermasculine does not necessarily mean hetero.

[Shinji2787]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

A bisexual badass space marine would be atypical for the genre and would subvert a lot of the conventions, but frankly it's far *less* likely than him just being a vehicle for new (shooter-y) players to get accustomed to the game through something they're familiar with - bulked up, hypermasculine soldier. 

 

Honestly, I am seriously hoping Bioware bites the bullet and makes Vega exclusively gay, because A) they haven't (to my knowledge) had an exclusively gay party member yet, and he already has a fauxhawk. And, of course, being bulked-up and hypermasculine does not necessarily mean hetero.

I have to agree strongly with this statement. Mass Effect is Shepard's story and so who Shepard is and his/her orientations are derived based on who the player wants Shepard to be. This can be achieved because Shepard is designed to molded by the player. Other characters in the series are other people, other characters with a history and life experiences not chosen by the player. Personally I think that if characters can be wishy washy with their orientations it really detracts from the character as that character will literally have two different personas in order to fit. Its a bit late so I might not be getting my opinion across clearly... but  hopefully my 2cents are getting across in some vague sense. Imagine how drastically different Garrus would be if he suddenly became a romance option in ME3 for MaleShep..? How are s/s relationships viewed in other alien cultures? The Asari are an exception considering they're monogendered and the whole deal with their relationships was explored quite thoroughly in ME1.

Ultimately I guess I'm trying to say that if every single character could be in a hetero or s/s relationship with MaleShep/FemShep then I personally feel that their characters will not be as well developed as they could be. If a character is being designed to be a love interest then more believable characteristics and traits can be applied if those characters have a set orientation in mind while being created. I'm not trying to say s/s shouldn't happen or anything... I'm just suggesting that overall character development and experience will be more enjoyable for everyone if certain characters are designed to be exclusively s/s or hetero love interests from the beginning. (With the exception of the Asari as by definition they are neither male nor female; they happen to have maternal instincts but it is not indicitive of them being female).

[Ryzaki]

...The Asari *are* female.

It's right there in the codex.

It's even more obvious by the fact that they use female pronouns and terms to describe themselves while claiming male ones have no meaning to them.

[Shinji2787]

Ok my bad about the Asari bit then, I didn't realize that they had been definitely classified as biologically female in the Galactic Codex: Essentials Edition 2183. There is a small paragraph exploring the confusion of the Asari race at http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Asari .

I also wasn't basing my example of Garrus based on only my own or a possible stereo-typical perception of gays. I know plenty don't wear it on their sleeves and come just as varied as straight people. I was viewing this more from a character breaking point. I couldn't find an birth date for Garrus but based on other conversations you have with him it seems that he would be straight, supported some by his last conversation on the SR-2 in which he talks about how he and another female Turian worked out their reach and flexibility issues. Thane also could be a character break due to all conversations with him seem to indicate that he is straight after talking about how he met his wife as well as how he talks about FemShep. At nearly 40 years old (about half of the average life of a Drell) it would seem unlikely that he has a sudden change in orientation. However, the societal viewpoints of s/s relationships in any of the races in Mass Effect (aside from Asari or Humans [explored briefly when talking to Jack]) haven't really been explored or shown to date so its all speculation as to how they would approach s/s relationships. That being said I suppose any of those characters, Kaiden, Thane, Jacob, or Garrus could have sudden change in orientations; but it would just seem a little unusual for them to change so suddenly if there is prior evidence in character back story suggesting that those characters are straight.

Modifié par Shinji2787, 05 juillet 2011 - 10:17 .

[shepskisaac]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

Honestly, I am seriously hoping Bioware bites the bullet and makes Vega exclusively gay, because A) they haven't (to my knowledge) had an exclusively gay party member yet, and he already has a fauxhawk. And, of course, being bulked-up and hypermasculine does not necessarily mean hetero.

There was Juhani in KOTOR, she was a lesbian. But other than her, no one else I think. Certinly not a gay man.

[ElitePinecone]

It's not a 'sudden change in orientation' when their sexual preferences were never established in the first place...

Yes, all indications are that Kaidan, Thane, Jacob, Garrus, etc, are 'straight', because they all talked about former female relationships. This in no way prevents them being bisexual, however.

A bisexual character who talked about women and then also talks about men is not 'changing', or 'being retconned', We just never noticed, nor did they describe, their sexuality.

A related example would be Tali or Garrus and the change in their behaviour between ME and ME2. Nowhere in ME/ME2 did we have any indication that they were attracted to humans or Shepard in particular. In Mass Effect 2, there was a reasonable explanation as to why they suddenly found Shepard attractive.

Their sexual orientation didn't 'change', we just discovered things about them - things that were always present - that the game had never touched on. We only see a few hours in the lives of characters that, in universe time, have lived for decades.

If Bioware decide to make familiar characters available for same-sex romances, it would not break any established sexuality because there is no established sexuality to break, and no orientation to change. It's never been clearly defined, and any presumption that "so and so is straight" is just that - a presumption.

[Dhiro]

As I said many, many times and no one listened... resources. Bioware don't have enough resources to make a exclusively gay character, be it male or female.

[KillTheLastRomantic]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

A bisexual badass space marine would be atypical for the genre and would subvert a lot of the conventions, but frankly it's far *less* likely than him just being a vehicle for new (shooter-y) players to get accustomed to the game through something they're familiar with - bulked up, hypermasculine soldier. 

 

Honestly, I am seriously hoping Bioware bites the bullet and makes Vega exclusively gay, because A) they haven't (to my knowledge) had an exclusively gay party member yet, and he already has a fauxhawk. And, of course, being bulked-up and hypermasculine does not necessarily mean hetero.

It could potentially make his character a LOT more interesting. Of course aside from how immature a lot of people would be about it (ie taking any possible chance to kill teh gay squadmate), it's just more efficient to have the m/m character be bisexual. Still, he gives me subtle gay vibes.

[Finis Valorum]

So long as He's not the only human m/m option in that case why not, however since I'm pretty sure we'll be limited to only one m/m option I still rather hope that he's not it.

[KillTheLastRomantic]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Does anyone here actually care about his hair? People seem to be making a big deal out of it.

If anything, his face needs to be tweaked a bit. It's a little too bulky. They should thin his head just a tad and make his lips and nose smaller. Other than that I think he looks okay.

Yeah, I don't get why people think his hair is so bad. I'm pretty neutral towards it.

I like his lips. The only thing that needs changing is that random overbulge line between his forehead and the bridge of his nose.

[Dhiro]

I don't hate the hair, but I won't cry myself to sleep if he gets a new hairstyle.

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

Dhiro wrote...

As I said many, many times and no one listened... resources. Bioware don't have enough resources to make a exclusively gay character, be it male or female.

Sure they do. It's not like gay people use more polygons to animate or anything.

[shepskisaac]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

As I said many, many times and no one listened... resources. Bioware don't have enough resources to make a exclusively gay character, be it male or female.

Sure they do. It's not like gay people use more polygons to animate or anything.

Resources is not the best term to use here. Priority would be better. Due to the fact gay men are in great minority, most devs just won't even bother creating content specifically for them. Sad truth. Few people will use the feature so they prefer to focus on something more people will use. The flaw in this reasoning is that they don't take straight women into the account here. They obviously do it for lesbian romances and straight men, but being mostly straight men themselves, they don't get many straight women want to role-play a gay man.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 05 juillet 2011 - 03:43 .

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

IsaacShep wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

As I said many, many times and no one listened... resources. Bioware don't have enough resources to make a exclusively gay character, be it male or female.

Sure they do. It's not like gay people use more polygons to animate or anything.

Resources is not the best term to use here. Priority would be better. Due to the fact gay men are in great minority, most devs just won't even bother creating content specifically for them. Sad truth. Few people will use the feature so they prefer to focus on something more people will use. The flaw in this reasoning is that they don't take straight women into the account here. They obviously do it for lesbian romances and straight men, but being mostly straight men themselves, they don't get many straight women want to role-play a gay man.

Unfortunately, that seems to be Bioware's mentality. Personally, I'd rather they designed their LIs to be part of a good story vs. designing them to appeal to the players.

[Twilight_Princess]

Shinji2787 wrote...

, Kaiden, Thane, Jacob, or Garrus could have sudden change in orientations; but it would just seem a little unusual for them to change so suddenly if there is prior evidence in character back story suggesting that those characters are straight.

The only ones I could possibly see being bi are kaidan and thane because they were going to be bisexual initially but bioware decided not to go ahead with it,  so they (unlike the other male li's) were made with some intention to swing both ways.  

[ElitePinecone]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...
Unfortunately, that seems to be Bioware's mentality. Personally, I'd rather they designed their LIs to be part of a good story vs. designing them to appeal to the players.

I appreciate this argument very much, and in a perfect world I'd totally agree that 'a good story' and unique characters with excellent backstories would be wonderful. 

But Bioware aren't a charity, nor are they necessarily obliged to include s/s content just because players ask for it. They didn't for two games, and only seemed to change this when presented with a significantly longer development time (and probably, a higher budget). They need to justify the investment of time, resources and effort into s/s content by ensuring it'll be appealing to as wide a number of players as possible. In this case, that generally means making the characters bisexual. 

It can be masked, of course, by making them 'homosexual' to one gender of Shepard/Hawke, and 'straight' to the other gender, but in essence the content needs to be available for as many people as possible. An NPC that struck to its orientation despite the changing of the player's gender might be more unique and memorable, but it's possibly not as worth the time or investment for the players that won't take advantage of them. 

A truly lesbian or gay LI would be groundbreaking (well, Juhani was bugged...), and it may even happen one day in a mainstream game, but not until the numbers, in terms of the market versus the cost, become worth it. It's a perfectly reasonable view from a company's standpoint. Yes, they have artistic vision, and often as not that involves same-sex content, pathos, drama, whatever - but they also need to sell games. 

[bleetman]

I'd settle for their games being more easily modable and letting the community sort out adding s/s characters (and I say 'settle' because, obviously, that's never going to be quite the same as if they were included in the first place), but that hadn't really been the case these past few years either, DA:O aside. Ho hum.

I'd like to see a completely homosexual character some day, but it ain't gonna happen any time soon. The response from, shall we say, those of a certain orientation of opinion would be predictably vindictive. Besides, much as I appreciate them adding bi-sexual characters in the first place, I wouldn't really describe Bioware as pushing the boundaries with its romance sub-plots.

[jlb524]

IsaacShep wrote...
Resources is not the best term to use here. Priority would be better. Due to the fact gay men are in great minority, most devs just won't even bother creating content specifically for them. Sad truth. Few people will use the feature so they prefer to focus on something more people will use. The flaw in this reasoning is that they don't take straight women into the account here. They obviously do it for lesbian romances and straight men, but being mostly straight men themselves, they don't get many straight women want to role-play a gay man.

They don't make exclusively lesbian characters either.

[Rinji the Bearded]

jlb524 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...
Resources is not the best term to use here. Priority would be better. Due to the fact gay men are in great minority, most devs just won't even bother creating content specifically for them. Sad truth. Few people will use the feature so they prefer to focus on something more people will use. The flaw in this reasoning is that they don't take straight women into the account here. They obviously do it for lesbian romances and straight men, but being mostly straight men themselves, they don't get many straight women want to role-play a gay man.

They don't make exclusively lesbian characters either.

They tried to with Juhani in KotOR, but the game bugged out.  I guess the game's been fixed since then.