25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Quething]

ArawnNox wrote...

Quething wrote...

*srsly Horizon is pretty slashy before the bad writing kicks in. "I never realized what I felt for you until you were gone" really would work pretty easily for either of them.

Needs a "Kiss and Make Up" sequence.

Heh. Heh. Al-right </Quagmire>

 If they do open the VS to a bi relationship in ME3 I have no idea what I'll do with my main!Shep. She hooked up with Ash in ME1 via hex edit, stayed loyal in ME2, and my whole headcanon for her is based around that relationship already existing. But if there's a legit way for them to hook up in ME3, versus hoping against hope that they'll record, flag and synch hidden Hale lines to play out the standard male!Shep romance the way they did in ME1&2...

[Siansonea]

ArawnNox wrote...

Quething wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
about realism of romances - all I ask is that the characters who show NO interest in Shepard unless shepard shows interest in them first, continute to show no interest in shepard, unless shepard shows interest in them first.  simple.

How do you mean? Garrus/Jacob style "show no interest in any Shep," or Ash/Kaidan "show no (explicit*) interest in s/s Shep but completely ninjamance o/s Shep"?

*srsly Horizon is pretty slashy before the bad writing kicks in. "I never realized what I felt for you until you were gone" really would work pretty easily for either of them.

Needs a "Kiss and Make Up" sequence.

Heh. Heh. Al-right </Quagmire>

Somebody needs to do a video of Horizon using Tchaikovsky's "Romeo and Juliet Fantasy Overture" as the soundtrack, with it timed so that the music swells at the appropriate times.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 06 juillet 2011 - 03:49 .

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...
see, if ME actualy recorded your interactions with the characters, then it might have a bit more pausibility in case of at least some Shepards. but it didn't. the fact that Tali loves you even if you treated her like crap is jarring. the fact that Garrus trusts you even if you haven't recruited him in ME1 - is annoying.

After getting saved on Virmire, Kaidan and Ash got a "pretty" good reason to be in love with Shep though, don't you think? You also can't not-recruit them, or treat them like utter crap as it is in Tali's case.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 06 juillet 2011 - 03:56 .

[Quething]

Ryzaki wrote...

Quething wrote...
Nah, Aveline is easier than Anders.
not that the overall point here is anything other than 100% accurate of course, there are in fact no companions for whom one instance of 15-pt rivalry is even remotely a big deal <_<

 

Nah Aveline is a pain in the ass to rival. If I take her around and try to rival her I end up getting half friendship, half rivalry and she ends up in the middle. It's enraging. 

Aveline - +15 friendship 

Me: Yay!

15 minutes later: 

Aveline - +15 rivalry. 

ME: FUUUUUUUUUU 

That said. Seb is worse. 

I was about to say I've never had any trouble rivaling Aveline, but then I remembered that I use Xatmos' party picker mod and am a cheating metagamer. 

But yes Seb is absolutely awful to try to rival, which is a shame because I think he's one of the few characters whose Rival path actually works the way it's supposed to, and who actually interacts with you with a consistent "friend who has a different worldview" attitude instead of the Fenris/Aveline-esque "I know we're not friends, but let me tell you how I could never have a better friend than you, ok."

That's a bit beside the point, though, because if you're freaking out about the AWFUL HORRIBLE UNFAIR LIFE-DESTROYING 15-point hit from shooting down Anders, it's because you don't want Rival, and the Friend paths are generally the eaiser to follow.

Topic? What topic? Oh yea. If we're going by the "they have to have never hit on any Shep at all" rule I'm still in the Joker camp for m/m characters, but that leaves the poor femSheps a little boned, doesn't it? Unless you're into cougars (mrawr, Doctor!).

[Jademoon121]

How many times now have people complained about Anders ninjamance now?

[Ryzaki]

Quething wrote...
I was about to say I've never had any trouble rivaling Aveline, but then I remembered that I use Xatmos' party picker mod and am a cheating metagamer. 

But yes Seb is absolutely awful to try to rival, which is a shame because I think he's one of the few characters whose Rival path actually works the way it's supposed to, and who actually interacts with you with a consistent "friend who has a different worldview" attitude instead of the Fenris/Aveline-esque "I know we're not friends, but let me tell you how I could never have a better friend than you, ok."

That's a bit beside the point, though, because if you're freaking out about the AWFUL HORRIBLE UNFAIR LIFE-DESTROYING 15-point hit from shooting down Anders, it's because you don't want Rival, and the Friend paths are generally the eaiser to follow.

Topic? What topic? Oh yea. If we're going by the "they have to have never hit on any Shep at all" rule I'm still in the Joker camp for m/m characters, but that leaves the poor femSheps a little boned, doesn't it? Unless you're into cougars (mrawr, Doctor!).

 

LOL 

Which is sad. :/ 

LOL true. 

Oh Joker. UNF. If Joker is a m/m option my Shep will be a very happy man. 

[jeweledleah]

IsaacShep wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
see, if ME actualy recorded your interactions with the characters, then it might have a bit more pausibility in case of at least some Shepards. but it didn't. the fact that Tali loves you even if you treated her like crap is jarring. the fact that Garrus trusts you even if you haven't recruited him in ME1 - is annoying.

After getting saved on Virmire, Kaidan and Ash got a "pretty" good reason to be in love with Shep though, don't you think? You also can't not-recruit them, or treat them like utter crap as it is in Tali's case.

actualy - yes you can treat them like crap.  you can also not talk to them at all.  you can also say that you made a virmire decision becasue they were a more valuable member of the crew and then not talk to them ever again.  you can use all renegade responces on Horizon.  as far as I know - the game makes NO recording of it.  none. Kaidan greeted me the same way on Horizon in a playthrough where I haven't once came down to his work post.  so did Ashley.  neither of them aknowledged whether you renegaded them or paragoned them.  better yet, Kaidan mentions the night before Ilos to my Shepard, who told him that it was a wrong time and that they should wait - as in, they didn't actualy have a night before Ilos.

Wrex called me a friend even though I haven't talked to him once, and basicaly bullied him into stepping down on Virmire with high renegade score.  Garrus looks up to me even if I haven't recruited him.  at least, and that's a small favor, he is not romansable if not recruited.  and Tali btw?  you cannot avoid recruiting her.  she is a non skippable character, just like Liara.  if you tell Udina that you don't want her on your ship?  he forces you to take her.  what's worse - she STIll crushes on you even if you didn't give her the data (THAT is recorded) and if you defend Cerberus and leave Veetor with them.  she also loves you whether you leave her exiled or aquit her.  the only way to avoid it is to mess up her loyalty mission.

like I said.  ME has very bad track record when it comes to recording pc/npc interactions, sometimes even within the same game, forget about across multiple games. 

Modifié par jeweledleah, 06 juillet 2011 - 05:08 .

[Universitas_C]

Ryzaki wrote...
Oh Joker. UNF. If Joker is a m/m option my Shep will be a very happy man. 

This, so much. My main ManShep needs some pilot. Though I'm just happy that they're actually throwing Gay Shepard a bone. (Hurr hurr.)

[KawaiiKatie]

Universitas_C wrote...

Though I'm just happy that they're actually throwing Gay Shepard a bone. (Hurr hurr.)

Yeah, I'm at the point where I'll take what I can get for gay male Shepard... *sigh*

I remembered this Tweet from a few days ago...



...and I'm really wondering how (if at all) gay gamers figure into the ME3 dev's considerations. Do they approach it from a "What kind of content would gay gamers want?" angle, or do they approach it from more of a "What kind of content would our main demographic, the straight male gamer, not mind seeing?" angle?

[Maugrim]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Yeah, I'm at the point where I'll take what I can get for gay male Shepard... *sigh*

I remembered this Tweet from a few days ago...



...and I'm really wondering how (if at all) gay gamers figure into the ME3 dev's considerations. Do they approach it from a "What kind of content would gay gamers want?" angle, or do they approach it from more of a "What kind of content would our main demographic, the straight male gamer, not mind seeing?" angle?

Whatever is going on I would love to be a fly on that wall...

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 06 juillet 2011 - 04:38 .

[Roachbugg]

If only i were James bond.

[ArawnNox]

makenzieshepard wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Yeah, I'm at the point where I'll take what I can get for gay male Shepard... *sigh*

I remembered this Tweet from a few days ago...



...and I'm really wondering how (if at all) gay gamers figure into the ME3 dev's considerations. Do they approach it from a "What kind of content would gay gamers want?" angle, or do they approach it from more of a "What kind of content would our main demographic, the straight male gamer, not mind seeing?" angle?

Whatever is going on I would love to be a fly on that wall...

*insert "<name>, grab my boob" comic here*

[Maugrim]

It occurs to me that this would be pretty intricate.  Warning NSFW.

[jlb524]

Jademoon121 wrote...

How many times now have people complained about Anders ninjamance now?

563,830 (plus or minus 10)

KawaiiKatie wrote...

...and I'm really wondering how (if at all) gay gamers figure into the ME3 dev's considerations. Do they approach it from a "What kind of content would gay gamers want?" angle, or do they approach it from more of a "What kind of content would our main demographic, the straight male gamer, not mind seeing?" angle?

The cynic in me says this.

makenzieshepard wrote...

It occurs to me that this would be pretty intricate.  Warning NSFW.

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

I think intricate means 'cat fights!!!!!!!!! lolz!'

Modifié par jlb524, 06 juillet 2011 - 04:51 .

[Siansonea]

jlb524 wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...

How many times now have people complained about Anders ninjamance now?

563,830 (plus or minus 10)

KawaiiKatie wrote...

...and I'm really wondering how (if at all) gay gamers figure into the ME3 dev's considerations. Do they approach it from a "What kind of content would gay gamers want?" angle, or do they approach it from more of a "What kind of content would our main demographic, the straight male gamer, not mind seeing?" angle?

The cynic in me says this.

I'm not as cynical, because after all, this mythical creature we know as the Straight Male Gamer* theoretically wouldn't see the gay male romance at all, now would he?

makenzieshepard wrote...

It occurs to me that this would be pretty intricate.  Warning NSFW.

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

I think intricate means 'cat fights!!!!!!!!! lolz!'

I wonder what intricate means too. I HOPE it means lots of different ways a given relationship can play out.

* Not to be confused with gamers who happen to be heterosexual males that don't self-identify as Straight Male Gamers to differentiate themselves from gay male gamers.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 06 juillet 2011 - 05:26 .

[jlb524]

Siansonea II wrote...

I'm not as cynical, because after all, this mythical creature we know as the Straight Male Gamer* theoretically wouldn't see the gay male romance at all, now would he?

I took the question as meaning, stuff like Anders flirting with MaleHawke ("the Straight Male Gamer" doesn't want to see that).  So the dev team will have to write the m/m romance with that in mind.

I've seen some even complain about Fenris...not because he flirts or anything, but because they see the heart icons and know they could flirt with him (and that's bad, m'kay) it makes them uncomfortable.  Which is why I think we hear complaints about the entire DA2 cast flirting with Hawke...some think the presence of hearts means the situation is a flirty/romantic one, even if Hawke opts not to pick them.

But...they have to make it obvious to avoid ninjamancing.  I guess they could 'hide' the m/m option as they did in Jade Empire (you can't approach Sky unless you've ended any possible romance with the two ladies, IIRC)...but that seems kind of dumb as I think people just need to deal.

Modifié par jlb524, 06 juillet 2011 - 05:49 .

[ElitePinecone]

A few things in response to the last day's shenanigans:

- What's the obsession with people worrying about Garrus being a s/s option? It's actually fascinating/creepy that just about everybody who has a problem with it mentions Garrus.

- Shepard's sexuality has never been defined. The option to pursue a heterosexual romance does not make her/him heterosexual (and ditto, the option for s/s doesn't make Shepard gay/lesbian).

- Abispa, that comment was amazing. I'm in awe.

- With regards to planning the romances, the optimist in me says that they'll consider what their audience wants, including people who genuinely want to see m/m or f/f (as opposed to trying to placate those would would rather not see it). Other than the 'entry point' dialogue, anything after that won't be seen except by people who want to see it. It's not as though Bioware have to censor or water-down content that people who are uncomfortable with it will never see.

- That being said, I'd love to have an insight into their decision making and I really do wish we'd get some more information soon.

[Destroy Raiden_]

Actually mshep's sexuality was defined BW specifically said ME he was hetero he got retconned for 3.

Social ques and end game results portray all LIs to date as hetro. The simple fact is all characters who were romanceable experienced their romance options during the game they showed themselves liking shep A and not being interested as anything more as friends at shep B.

They should just make s/s options of brand new characters not past LIs.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 06 juillet 2011 - 06:15 .

[jlb524]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

Actually mshep's sexuality was defined BW specifically said ME he was hetero he got retconned for 3.

Social ques and end game results portray all LIs to date as hetro. The simple fact is all characters who were romanceable experienced their romance options during the game they showed themselves liking shep A and not being interested as anything more as friends at shep B.

They should just make s/s options of brand new characters not past LIs.

But Shep A and Shep B do not exist in the same universe.

I only play as FemShep, and from an in-universe persepctive, I couldn't even begin to tell you what Ashley's sexuality is...she may have a salarian fetish for all I know...hey, they're super flexible!  I know Kaidan likes girls, but I don't have enough information to make a judgment on his attitude towards men...so he's at least bisexual or heterosexual.

[Zjarcal]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

Actually mshep's sexuality was defined BW specifically said ME he was hetero he got retconned for 3.

What the hell are you talking about? Anyone got a link to that "there's no canon Shep" that a BW dev posted?

Nothing about Shepard (other than her/his backstory and even this is up to what the player chooses) is defined, and that includes their sexuality, that is up to the player.

Jeez, you'd think this would be obvious to people.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 06 juillet 2011 - 06:31 .

[ElitePinecone]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

Actually mshep's sexuality was defined BW specifically said ME he was hetero he got retconned for 3.  

No. 

If the quotes exist, show me.

Ray Muzayka said Shepard was "a more defined character with a more defined view", in an awkward response to a question about the lack of s/s in ME2 that contradicted itself and contradicted the other answer given by Casey Hudson. He in no way stated that the character was heterosexual. Bioware have, to my knowledge, never stated this. 

Every other time Bioware have referenced Shepard it was in the context of him or her being a blank canvas open to player decisions and interpretations.

Furthermore, Shepard is not a he.

If you have any evidence at all, other than speculation, that Shepard's opportunity for s/s romance in ME3 is a 'retcon', I'd like to see it.

Otherwise the sexuality of the character is ambiguous, until the player acts on it or imposes their own view.  

[KawaiiKatie]

ElitePinecone wrote...

What's the obsession with people worrying about Garrus being a s/s option? It's actually fascinating/creepy that just about everybody who has a problem with it mentions Garrus.

I know, right? I guess they're worried about their epic "bromance" with Garrus beign "destroyed" by the OPTION to flirt with him... as if he and manShep are SO close... as if Garrus doesn't spend 80% of ME2 telling manShep, "Can this wait for a bit? I'm in the middle of some callibrations."

I wouldn't mind bisexual Garrus. Not one bit. He just wants to find someone who'll treat him right... And trust me, my manShep would treat him VERY right~

Shepard's sexuality has never been defined. The option to pursue a heterosexual romance does not make her/him heterosexual (and ditto, the option for s/s doesn't make Shepard gay/lesbian).

This. I can't believe people still haven't figured this one out.

With regards to planning the romances, the optimist in me says that they'll consider what their audience wants, including people who genuinely want to see m/m or f/f (as opposed to trying to placate those would would rather not see it). Other than the 'entry point' dialogue, anything after that won't be seen except by people who want to see it. It's not as though Bioware have to censor or water-down content that people who are uncomfortable with it will never see.

Well, the Straight Male Gamer is notoriously dense. Many of them "tripped and fell" into bed with Zevran, even though it was VERY OBVIOUS that he wanted to give you more than a "massage," and then the Straight Male Gamer went online to complain. I don't know how much influence the Straight Male Gamer has on the ME3 development process, but I would very much be willing to bet that Bioware has taken into consideration that most Straight Male Gamers don't want to see Garrus flirt with manShep. Would fear of ostracising the Straight Male Gamer influence the direction Bioware takes (or doesn't take) Garrus' character? Or any character? Maybe.

I'm actually wondering if Bioware will make Kaidan bisexual simply because you can kill him. Are you a Straight Male Gamer who doesn't want to deal with the bisexual male romance-option? Just use the Zevran Knife and slit his throat! That'll learn 'em! Now he'll never have the chance to question your sexuality! No sir!

I really just wonder which weighs more in Bioware's considerations. The wants of gay gamers, or the fears of the Straight Male Gamer?

(And, as Siansonea II said, my use of the phrase "Straight Male Gamer" is not to be confused with gamers who happen to be heterosexual males that don't self-identify as Straight Male Gamers to differentiate themselves from gay male gamers.)

That being said, I'd love to have an insight into their decision making and I really do wish we'd get some more information soon.

Oh dear lord, this. Fans of the heterosexual romance-content don't have to worry about who they can and cannot flirt with... More info on the same-sex romances would be amazing.

Destroy Raiden wrote...

Actually mshep's sexuality was defined BW specifically said ME he was hetero he got retconned for 3.

No. Just no. In fact, see ElitePinecone's second quote IN THIS VERY COMMENT. You're wrong, deal with it.

My gayShep is definitely gay, so don't even try to tell me that his homosexuality in ME3 will be a "retcon."

Dunstan wrote...

The General (Me, That's right... Me): Don't worry men, the ultimate cripple squad are on their way. They will send these beasts from where they came with their undeniable logic, and pin point accuracy of what is and isn't Retcon.

The ultimate cripple squad of undeniable logic? I'll proudly wear that banner!

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 06 juillet 2011 - 07:02 .

[DaeJi]

KawaiiKatie wrote...
I really just wonder which weighs more in Bioware's considerations. The wants of gay gamers, or the fears of the Straight Male Gamer?

Well, if this Straight Male Gamer has a preference, it would be the needs of storytelling. Would Garrus hit on a male Shepard? He didn't hit on a female one, so why would he start with MShep? Would a previous love interest, say Kaidan, break character by being available for both sexes? Or was his showing in Mass Effect narrow enough that the writers can branch out and expose more of who he is? Can the writers write the same sex romances in such a way that the Straight Male Gamer is unoffended yet the Gay Male Gamer can still enjoy the love story he wants?

The answer of course is make everyone bi. That is choice! They gave it to me with Dragon Age 2, and now I'm ruined. Anything less seems lazy, I want a buffet of lovers to chose from, gender be damned! Gah, I've become greedy! I need MORE!

[Abispa]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

You are my favorite person who may have multiple personalities ever.

Thanks to feedback like this, she'll probably NEVER go through with creating her own BW profile. Thank you.