25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Maugrim]

Jimmy Fury wrote...


Does it?
[checks]
It does... huh. And yeah it even says if you want to express anything against the inclusion to go somewhere else...
Well that's just rude.

Check again because it doesn't.  Either the eyesight or the comprehension is off.

S/S romances are going to be in the game no if ands are buts.  This has been confirmed by Casey Hudson.  There is no debate or argument to be had about the issue it is settled.  I don't know how to say this any more clearly or simply.  It's not rude it's simply following the rules as laid out by the mods.

Proof you say? Ok how about the sticky on this specific subforum, you did read it right?  Here is the relevant quote.

Chris Priestly wrote...

If you do not enjoy romance options in games, please stay out of discussions where fans of such romances can discuss them. Mass Effect 3 also has same sex relationships. If you do not enjoy or approve of same sex relationships,please stay out of discussion on these topics. 

If you don't like his moderation and the rules then take it up with Chris, not us.  This is Bioware's forum and they have the right to run it however they choose, there is no right to speech here.

You can debate how they implement it. I disagree with oh just about everyone posting on the last page but there have been no antagonistc arguments about it.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 09 juillet 2011 - 11:44 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Aw, man. Bioware just closed down another thread, and it was getting fun. I think those who disagree with s/s are intimidated by the sheer number of pages on this thread and they feel the need to keep starting new ones.

Not always more likely the majority start the anti s/s threads because of this thread's lovely rule: This thread doesn't exist for people to express that they are against the inclusion of same-sex romance

so basically if you're against s/s for any reason what so ever in this thread you should shove off and create one against it so you can get closed down in 10min. - 1hr.

All the arguments are supposed to stick to one s/s thread, this one.  You may disagree however much you like, and you can discuss here -- as long as you disagree about how it is implemented.  Being completely against the s/s inclusion is useless because s/s will be included whether anyone likes it or not.

[Cootie]

makenzieshepard wrote...

You can debate how they implement it. I disagree with oh just about everyone posting on the last page but there have been no antagonistc arguments about it.

Oooh! Oh, oh, oh!
Now I want to hear your opinion, good Makenzie!

[Quething]

IsaacShep wrote...
Garrus is a 'bro' and he needs to be straight so they can talk with him about nothing but all the girls they will score and all the strip clubs they will visit together.

You know, Garrus is a total bro. He's my main!Shep's total bro, certainly. Ashley&Garrus was her party for the whole of ME1, it was the girlfriend/best friend tag team of awesome. In ME2 he was about the only thing that kept her sane through Horizon. He's her badass turian little brother. The idea of any kind of romantic relationship between the two of them... it's just viscerally wrong, and not even because main!Shep's a total lesbian, just because Garrus is her bro.

So, y'know, I just... don't pursue that relationship with that character. It's a terrible, terrible hardship but somehow I manage. <_<

Oh and speaking of Ashley and her total straightness in ME1:



Not in my game she wasn't.

[Jimmy Fury]

makenzieshepard wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...
Does it?
[checks]
It does... huh. And yeah it even says if you want to express anything against the inclusion to go somewhere else...
Well that's just rude.

Check again because it doesn't.  Either the eyesight or the comprehension is off.

S/S romances are going to be in the game no if ands are buts.  This has been confirmed by Casey Hudson.  There is no debate or argument to be had about the issue it is settled.  I don't know how to say this any more clearly or simply.  It's not rude it's simply following the rules as laid out by the mods.

Proof you say? Ok how about the sticky on this specific subforum, you did read it right?  Here is the relevant quote.

Chris Priestly wrote...

If you do not enjoy romance options in games, please stay out of discussions where fans of such romances can discuss them. Mass Effect 3 also has same sex relationships. If you do not enjoy or approve of same sex relationships,please stay out of discussion on these topics. 

If you don't like his moderation and the rules then take it up with Chris, not us.  This is Bioware's forum and they have the right to run it however they choose, there is no right to speech here.

You can debate how they implement it. I disagree with oh just about everyone posting on the last page but there have been no antagonistc arguments about it.

Sorry for offending you but I stand by the statement that it's rude to shut down any thread debating the inclusion and redirect them here.
Perhaps your eyesight and comrpehension were off when you missed that very important part of the conversation.
Edit: hmm looking back I may have neglected to specify that anywhere other than in my head...

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 10 juillet 2011 - 12:13 .

[Chuffnubble]

I wrote a post a few weeks ago called "The Same-Sex Romance Issue – an easy solution"…

My idea (though not a fully original one, I know) was that at the start of ME3, this happens:


Confirm Pre-service history:

Spacer
Colonist
Earth-born



Confirm Psychological Profile:

Sole Survivor
War Hero
Ruthless



Confirm Sexual Orientation:

Heterosexual
Homosexual
Bisexual


(Three choices for each, where being a Spacer is equally as valid as being Earth-born, where being a War Hero is equally as valid as being a Sole Survivor, and where being Homosexual is equally as valid as being Bisexual or Heterosexual).

Then when you actually started to play the game, all the main NPCs in the game would know you background and preferences and would adjust their behavior accordingly (like people do in reality). 

There! Issue resolved! Everybody knows where everybody is, and ME3 doesn’t resemble DA2 at all! Hooray…

In response to my post, I got a lot of support, but mostly a lot of flack. The flack was mostly people calling me a homophobe, racist, redneck…

The concern that many others and I have with s/s romance being in ME3 come from two fronts:

1.DA2’s handling of s/s romance

DA2’s handling of s/s romance was really bad. Every single character was bisexual, which is totally lazy and unrealistic (it should have been one or two, not every single one). Worst of all, every character would hit on you, and then get annoyed when you would say ‘thanks, but no thanks’.

2.Pre-established relationships with ME characters
We have gotten to know and love the characters of ME over the past two games. We know them AND THEY KNOW US, depending on the choices we made in the first two games. They would probably know by now which way Shepard swings romantically (if they know her/him at all!) and we probably know by now which way each of them swing romantically (if we know them at all! – AND WE DO! And that is the point!). Can't you see where we are coming from know?

Modifié par CatDogCatDog, 10 juillet 2011 - 12:33 .

[KawaiiKatie]

No sexuality toggles. Just no.

As I stated on your post-proper, sexuality toggles imply that homosexuals and heterosexuals cannot coexist. It implies that we cannot even tolerate one another in a fictional universe. As well-meaning as your intentions may be, it is a step in the direction of intolerance and segregation, and I will not support such an implementation.

[Chuffnubble]

Fair enough, KawaiiKatie. Maybe you are right...

[Aurellia]

I think a different toggle would be more meaningful. Have a toggle to determine whether NPCs flirt with you and have it apply to all romances. I for one would enjoy it if various NPCs of both genders hit on my femshep.  I would love to see complicated drama and love triangles arise.

Meanwhile other players can choose to avoid this not for whatever reasons.  In particular this would allow the"fragile flower of heterosexuality" boy types to avoid having Wrex or Conrad hitting on them:-)  Not to mention female players who might not want unwanted attention.

Modifié par Aurellia, 10 juillet 2011 - 12:55 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Aurellia wrote...

I think a different toggle would be more meaningful. Have a toggle to determine whether NPCs flirt with you and have it apply to all romances. I for one would enjoy it if various NPCs of both genders hit on my femshep.  I would love to see complicated drama and love triangles arise.

Meanwhile other players can choose to avoid this not for whatever reasons.  In particular this would allow the"fragile flower of hetero-manhood" boy types to avoid having Wrex or Conrad hitting on them:-)  Not to mention female players who might not want unwanted attention.

Can I have a toggle to remove all vulgarity from the game?

I'm also not very fond of violence,  could I have a toggle that removed guns and allowed me to solve problems by getting up close to a person and giving them a firm hand shake?

[Nashiktal]

Quething wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...
Garrus is a 'bro' and he needs to be straight so they can talk with him about nothing but all the girls they will score and all the strip clubs they will visit together.

You know, Garrus is a total bro. He's my main!Shep's total bro, certainly. Ashley&Garrus was her party for the whole of ME1, it was the girlfriend/best friend tag team of awesome. In ME2 he was about the only thing that kept her sane through Horizon. He's her badass turian little brother. The idea of any kind of romantic relationship between the two of them... it's just viscerally wrong, and not even because main!Shep's a total lesbian, just because Garrus is her bro.

So, y'know, I just... don't pursue that relationship with that character. It's a terrible, terrible hardship but somehow I manage. <_<

Garrus is my bro as well, however I believe that Garrus is not only the character that makes the most sense as a BI option, but you have to take initiative to romance him anyways! 

Hell turians can't even tell the difference between a male and female human without the foreknowledge of dem funny bumps. Garrus isn't in a romance with femshep because she is female, he is only romancing SHEP out of respect. He respects shep enough to give it a try, gender and species don't even factor. (Garrus even says he isn't into humans)

So I am still confused as to why people would have problems with Garrus being a player initiated romance. It certaintly isn't out of character, and he won't stop being a bro unless you decide to flirt with him.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 10 juillet 2011 - 01:04 .

[ArawnNox]

Nashiktal wrote...

Quething wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...
Garrus is a 'bro' and he needs to be straight so they can talk with him about nothing but all the girls they will score and all the strip clubs they will visit together.

You know, Garrus is a total bro. He's my main!Shep's total bro, certainly. Ashley&Garrus was her party for the whole of ME1, it was the girlfriend/best friend tag team of awesome. In ME2 he was about the only thing that kept her sane through Horizon. He's her badass turian little brother. The idea of any kind of romantic relationship between the two of them... it's just viscerally wrong, and not even because main!Shep's a total lesbian, just because Garrus is her bro.

So, y'know, I just... don't pursue that relationship with that character. It's a terrible, terrible hardship but somehow I manage. <_<

Garrus is my bro as well, however I believe that Garrus is not only the character that makes the most sense as a BI option, but you have to take initiative to romance him anyways! 

Hell turians can't even tell the difference between a male and female human without the foreknowledge of dem funny bumps. Garrus isn't in a romance with femshep because she is female, he is only romancing SHEP out of respect. He respects shep enough to give it a try, gender and species don't even factor. (Garrus even says he isn't into humans)

So I am still confused as to why people would have problems with Garrus being a player initiated romance. It certaintly isn't out of character, and he won't stop being a bro unless you decide to flirt with him.

Because it would, as we've heavily implied, make the brogamers question their sexualities and they're way too insecure to handle it.

Edit: fixing grammar

Modifié par ArawnNox, 10 juillet 2011 - 01:07 .

[Quething]

CatDogCatDog wrote...

2.Pre-established relationships with ME characters
We have gotten to know and love the characters of ME over the past two games. We know them AND THEY KNOW US, depending on the choices we made in the first two games. They would probably know by now which way Shepard swings romantically (if they know her/him at all!) and we probably know by now which way each of them swing romantically (if we know them at all! – AND WE DO! And that is the point!). Can't you see where we are coming from know?

My grandmother has known me for 26 years and doesn't have the first clue about my sexuality.

If a person is sexually attracted to someone of the opposite sex, yes. It's pretty rare for you not to know that about them within the first few weeks of your acquaintance.

If a person has any sexuality other than heterosexual, however, it is perfectly reasonable to believe that you will never know that about them if you are friends for thirty years. Because no matter how open-minded or good a friend you seem, we simply can't always trust that. And not everyone seems that open-minded. A lot of the time, the personal and professional repercussions just aren't worth the risk.

And in a world where Ashley still can't take respect as a marine for granted due to her gender (per elevator banter with Wrex), I sincerely doubt the perspective on sexuality will have changed enough to make the concerns that keep me closeted to half my family today particularly moot either. I wouldn't have the least bit of trouble believing that Kadian or Ash or Joker was keeping their s/s crush on you on the QT during ME1&2 out of ingrained self-preservation.

Modifié par Quething, 10 juillet 2011 - 01:08 .

[bleetman]

CatDogCatDog wrote...

DA2’s handling of s/s romance was really bad. Every single character was bisexual, which is totally lazy and unrealistic (it should have been one or two, not every single one). Worst of all, every character would hit on you, and then get annoyed when you would say ‘thanks, but no thanks’.

My problem with statements like this is it makes me wonder what version of Dragon Age 2 I was playing compared to everyone else. Aside from the "unrealistic!" aspect, which I'll come to in a moment, no. They don't. Isabela hits on Hawke regularly. Anders does it once. The other two don't at all, unless giving a compliment equates to "hitting on".

What bugs me about the "unrealistic" thing isn't so much that I don't personally equate four bi-sexual characters occupying the same relative space at once as being some reality bending anomaly. But when people - like you follow up with yourself - state their dislike of any bi-sexual ME3 characters being the result of changing their characters, retconning and all that noise, it takes every ounce of self control I have to prevent blood from shooting out of my ears.

People don't want existing characters being "suddenly made bi/homosexual". Ok, I get it. I don't agree on any kind of level that a person becomes someone else purely because of expanding their sexual preference, but I get it. But as soon as Bioware go and add more than one bi-sexual interest, suddenly it's unrealistic and lazy and so forth. Why? Is there a quota for bi/homosexuals? Are only a set amount allowed in any one game, at any one time? Dragon Age 2 introduced newly written and created characters who also happened to be bi-sexual, but this is apparently as unacceptable as writing it into a pre-existing character simply because there's more than one of them. It strikes me as people wanting their cake and eating it.

Alternatively, here's a hypothetical: In the three or so years between the closure of Mass Effect 1 and the beginning of Mass Effect 3, Ashley develops a taste for the ladies. These things happen. It would be a "sudden change" for us, maybe. For her? Not so much.

Modifié par bleetman, 10 juillet 2011 - 01:27 .

[ElitePinecone]

On the toggle issue, it's both unnecessary and counter-productive.

Unnecessary because if you don't want the content, just don't pick it. It's honestly not that difficult to *not* pick a dialogue option out of a 40 hour game.

It's counter-productive because it makes an enormous deal out of what is essentially an optional sidequest, and it announces to the world (on Bioware's behalf) that players can 'filter' s/s content just because they find it uncomfortable.

I understand and appreciate that you have the best of intentions when proposing a toggle - but many people would find it rather offensive. There's no toggle for violence, for example, or for swearing, or for heterosexual romance content. The media reaction would not be positive - to say the least - and it creates an enormously unfortunate implication that certain segments of the fanbase are so insecure or ignorant that they can't deal with optional content that they never need to see.

When people play a Bioware game they can reasonably expect certain things. One of those things is romances, this time available with the same gender. If you can't - with respect - deal with a few lines of dialogue that you can decline extremely easily, perhaps you're overreacting.

[Jimmy Fury]

bleetman wrote...
It strikes me as people wanting their cake and eating it.

And then accusing their mum of pandering to cake lovers for giving the rest of the party guests cake too.

[Trevbo]

Abispa wrote...

ArawnNox wrote...

You know, Morrigan really did describe much of the gamer demographic wen she said "A man will assume two things about a gay man. One: That the gay man is weak. And two: That the gay man finds him attractive."

I fixed that for you.

You are my favourite person forever!

Although I do have a few straight friends I have a hard time not hitting on...

And sorry... My next post will be back on topic. I promise.

[Tommy6860]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...
Does it?
[checks]
It does... huh. And yeah it even says if you want to express anything against the inclusion to go somewhere else...
Well that's just rude.

Check again because it doesn't.  Either the eyesight or the comprehension is off.

S/S romances are going to be in the game no if ands are buts.  This has been confirmed by Casey Hudson.  There is no debate or argument to be had about the issue it is settled.  I don't know how to say this any more clearly or simply.  It's not rude it's simply following the rules as laid out by the mods.

Proof you say? Ok how about the sticky on this specific subforum, you did read it right?  Here is the relevant quote.

Chris Priestly wrote...

If you do not enjoy romance options in games, please stay out of discussions where fans of such romances can discuss them. Mass Effect 3 also has same sex relationships. If you do not enjoy or approve of same sex relationships,please stay out of discussion on these topics. 

If you don't like his moderation and the rules then take it up with Chris, not us.  This is Bioware's forum and they have the right to run it however they choose, there is no right to speech here.

You can debate how they implement it. I disagree with oh just about everyone posting on the last page but there have been no antagonistc arguments about it.

Sorry for offending you but I stand by the statement that it's rude to shut down any thread debating the inclusion and redirect them here.
Perhaps your eyesight and comrpehension were off when you missed that very important part of the conversation.
Edit: hmm looking back I may have neglected to specify that anywhere other than in my head...

But the request is a very reasonable one, considering the history of how threads such as these degraded into the inevitable homophobic argument. I think it royally sucks that same sex threads cannot exist in peace while others go unbothered. All that the OP wants for this thread, is for it to stick to her caveat so that it doesn't get shut down for these very reasons, such as your arguments against s/s romances. Is it really too much to ask to allow for this thread to stand up to its own rules for the sake of those who really want to contribute to it.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 10 juillet 2011 - 01:26 .

[Jimmy Fury]

Tommy6860 wrote...
But the request is a very reasonable one, considering the history of how threads such as these degraded into the inevitable homophobic argument. I think it royally sucks that same sex threads cannot exist in peace while others go unbothered. All that the OP wants for this thread, is for it to stick to her caveat so that it doesn't get shut down for these very reasons, such as your arguments against s/s romances. Is it really too much to ask to allow for this thread to stand up to its own rules for the sake of those who really want to contribute to it.

Sorry... my arguments against s/s romance?

And again. I said I was sorry for offending anyone. I reword posts sometimes before I hit submit and occasionally information that i thought was there gets cut.
I very simply meant that it's rude of bioware to shut down threads debating the inclusion of s/s romance and redirect them here where that topic is not allowed. That was all.

[Maugrim]

You're right  in that they shouldn't redirect them here and give them false hope that there BS is acceptable.  In fact they should be telling them that they really shouldn't be posting at all as Chris Priestly's very own sticky says.  Maybe thats's the polite way of telling them to bugger off.

To reitereate

Chris Priestly wrote...

Mass Effect 3 also has same sex relationships. If you do not enjoy or approve of same sex relationships,please stay out of discussion on these topics.  

Emphasis mine obviously.

[Tommy6860]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...
But the request is a very reasonable one, considering the history of how threads such as these degraded into the inevitable homophobic argument. I think it royally sucks that same sex threads cannot exist in peace while others go unbothered. All that the OP wants for this thread, is for it to stick to her caveat so that it doesn't get shut down for these very reasons, such as your arguments against s/s romances. Is it really too much to ask to allow for this thread to stand up to its own rules for the sake of those who really want to contribute to it.

Sorry... my arguments against s/s romance?

And again. I said I was sorry for offending anyone. I reword posts sometimes before I hit submit and occasionally information that i thought was there gets cut.
I very simply meant that it's rude of bioware to shut down threads debating the inclusion of s/s romance and redirect them here where that topic is not allowed. That was all.

This is your comment from the previous page, "It does... huh. And yeah it even says if you want to express anything against the inclusion to go somewhere else...
Well that's just rude."

If your intention has truly changed, then I would suggest editing that post as so you don't incur posts such as mine. Anyhow, back to the regularly scheduled program....

[Chuffnubble]

bleetman wrote...

CatDogCatDog wrote...

DA2’s handling of s/s romance was really bad. Every single character was bisexual, which is totally lazy and unrealistic (it should have been one or two, not every single one). Worst of all, every character would hit on you, and then get annoyed when you would say ‘thanks, but no thanks’.

My problem with statements like this is it makes me wonder what version of Dragon Age 2 I was playing compared to everyone else. Aside from the "unrealistic!" aspect, which I'll come to in a moment, no. They don't. Isabela hits on Hawke regularly. Anders does it once. The other two don't at all, unless giving a compliment equates to "hitting on".

What bugs me about the "unrealistic" thing isn't so much that I don't personally equate four bi-sexual characters occupying the same relative space at once as being some reality bending anomaly. But when people - like you follow up with yourself - state their dislike of any bi-sexual ME3 characters being the result of changing their characters, retconning and all that noise, it takes every ounce of self control I have to prevent blood from shooting out of my ears.

People don't want existing characters being "suddenly made bi/homosexual". Ok, I get it. I don't agree on any kind of level that a person becomes someone else purely because of expanding their sexual preference, but I get it. But as soon as Bioware go and add more than one bi-sexual interest, suddenly it's unrealistic and lazy and so forth. Why? Is there a quota for bi/homosexuals? Are only a set amount allowed in any one game, at any one time? Dragon Age 2 introduced newly written and created characters who also happened to be bi-sexual, but this is apparently as unacceptable as writing it into a pre-existing character simply because there's more than one of them. It strikes me as people wanting their cake and eating it.

Alternatively, here's a hypothetical: In the three or so years between the closure of Mass Effect 1 and the beginning of Mass Effect 3, Ashley develops a taste for the ladies. These things happen. It would be a "sudden change" for us, maybe. For her? Not so much.

You are right... "Too many variables.  Too many variables"... I don't think I would be happy if they did do a s/s toggle now...  Thank you for your reply

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

CatDogCatDog wrote...

DA2’s handling of s/s romance was really bad. Every single character was bisexual, which is totally lazy and unrealistic (it should have been one or two, not every single one). Worst of all, every character would hit on you, and then get annoyed when you would say ‘thanks, but no thanks’.

For the love of everything that is good and pure, please stop using this overgeneralization. Not ALL characters are bi. 4 out of 9 are stated to be. That's 4 out of 5 romances. Still not all, so please, please, stop it.

This is not just aimed at the above poster, just so you know.