25715 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

I love Gaider's final quote:

"The moment we get to the point where content aimed at all types of players is common enough not to be noteworthy," he says, "that's when we'll have truly matured as an industry."

It had some interesting points to make, it's probably true that Bioware are one of the only studios developing games with significant non-straight content. Fable or The Sims are laudable, but hardly noteworthy when their NPCs are randomly generated and can't interact with the player at all.

[Ryzaki]

Not to mention most of them are butt ugly (in Fable anyway).

Oh come on the rest of you were totally thinking it.

[jlb524]

Ryzaki wrote...

Not to mention most of them are butt ugly (in Fable anyway).

Oh come on the rest of you were totally thinking it.

>_>

I don't romance anyone in Fable.

[Puzzlewell]

My Queen in Fable 3 is definitely married to two people of ill repute. (Well technically she has 5 spouses, two husbands and three wives, she's saucy like that)

EDIT: Oh right, BSN has censorship stuffs

Modifié par CalamityRanger, 10 juillet 2011 - 11:03 .

[BrandNewMan]

I think we can count on Skyrim having s/s relationships, so that's a plus.

[Cootie]

BrandNewMan wrote...

I think we can count on Skyrim having s/s relationships, so that's a plus.

WHERE IS YOUR IMMERSION NOW


*cough*

Huzzah, I guess! O.o
I personally prefer Bioware over Bethesda, however, and I'm superglad they're finally putting s/s into Mass Effect.

Modifié par Cootie, 10 juillet 2011 - 02:25 .

[shepskisaac]

BrandNewMan wrote...

I think we can count on Skyrim having s/s relationships, so that's a plus.

Were gay romances confirmed? I read about marriage and spouse moving in but not about gay romances.

[Metaldwarf]

ElitePinecone wrote...

I love Gaider's final quote:

"The moment we get to the point where content aimed at all types of players is common enough not to be noteworthy," he says, "that's when we'll have truly matured as an industry."

Well said by Mr. Gaider.
I have nothing to add here save that as someone who has been playing PC games(among others) since the late 1980s  I am hard-pressed to recall any games where s/s romances ocurred; besides the obligatory male gamer fantasy of two lasses making out for the aformentioned gamer's benefit.  What Bioware and David Gaider in particular are doing is a rather remarkable thing for an industry that until the past half-decade or so has struggled to be taken seriously as a form of legitimate expression and pasttime. Hopefully it continues to do so and does not mirror television's slapdash approach to issues of same-sex relationships and fosters debate rather than a series of 'I'm right/you're wrong' arguments as so often happens. That will only happen if more of the top names in the industry take these concepts seriously, and I strongly believe the rpg genre is the best place to explore these sorts of questions. I like the idea of a married same-sex couple showing their children Dragon Age and praising it as 'one of the first' games to treat s/s relationships in a responsible and realistic manner, if a bit bumpy.

Then again I'm a cynical old sod who truly believes that most people only change their mind on things after much kicking and screaming and there will always be those who cling strongly to outdated ways of thinking and ideas better left centuries past.

Modifié par Metaldwarf, 10 juillet 2011 - 03:19 .

[OSUP]

Has there been any more information about s/s romances since the original announcement?

[RobsanX]

I was reading an interview with Drew Karpyshyn about the ME novels and how they barely mention Shepard, and only in vague terms. He said the reason for this is because the ME game story is the player's story. The players write the narrative in the game.

What does this have to do with s/s relationships? It means that Shepard is homosexual only if you want Shepard to be homosexual! It's very simple. You get to decide the sexuality of Shepard and any NPC's!

An NPC is not bisexual unless you make them that way. You are the author!

[Abispa]

OSUP wrote...

Has there been any more information about s/s romances since the original announcement?

Not really. Most of the quotes I do see coming up in VG sites and magazines are about Bioware supporting the CONCEPT of s/s romance in future games, but almost NOTHING about HOW it is going to be handled ME3. Thus we get the wild speculations both angry and joyous. Needless to say, I'm sure there is going to be plenty of disappointment in some quarters no matter how it's handled.

I also can't help but believe that there are a lot of "important marketing decisions" going on, similar to the "marketing decisions" made by TV shows in the 60s where executives debated just how "diverse" their shows were going to be and how NOT to offend the Southern market. Example: keep Kato, Green Hornet's Asian sidekick in a mask.

The legacy of such cowardice is twofold. 1) The Asian community was rightfully offended that Bruce Lee never got his proper due, and 2) many wonderful and progressive Southerners still have to suffer the stereotype that they're a bunch of inbred racists as if the rest of the country is without sin in that regard.

[PlumPaul93]

CatDogCatDog wrote...


I wrote a post a few weeks ago called "The Same-Sex Romance Issue – an easy solution"…

My idea (though not a fully original one, I know) was that at the start of ME3, this happens:


Confirm Pre-service history:

Spacer
Colonist
Earth-born



Confirm Psychological Profile:

Sole Survivor
War Hero
Ruthless



Confirm Sexual Orientation:

Heterosexual
Homosexual
Bisexual


(Three choices for each, where being a Spacer is equally as valid as being Earth-born, where being a War Hero is equally as valid as being a Sole Survivor, and where being Homosexual is equally as valid as being Bisexual or Heterosexual).

Then when you actually started to play the game, all the main NPCs in the game would know you background and preferences and would adjust their behavior accordingly (like people do in reality). 

There! Issue resolved! Everybody knows where everybody is, and ME3 doesn’t resemble DA2 at all! Hooray…

In response to my post, I got a lot of support, but mostly a lot of flack. The flack was mostly people calling me a homophobe, racist, redneck…

The concern that many others and I have with s/s romance being in ME3 come from two fronts:

1.DA2’s handling of s/s romance

DA2’s handling of s/s romance was really bad. Every single character was bisexual, which is totally lazy and unrealistic (it should have been one or two, not every single one). Worst of all, every character would hit on you, and then get annoyed when you would say ‘thanks, but no thanks’.

2.Pre-established relationships with ME characters
We have gotten to know and love the characters of ME over the past two games. We know them AND THEY KNOW US, depending on the choices we made in the first two games. They would probably know by now which way Shepard swings romantically (if they know her/him at all!) and we probably know by now which way each of them swing romantically (if we know them at all! – AND WE DO! And that is the point!). Can't you see where we are coming from know?

@ bolded I really don't see what's wrong with this idea. If they did it to where if you picked whatever sexual orientation you were in the character creator and set it to that whichever one you picked only romances that are possible with your orientation would set off romance flags or give the possibility of that romance. I wouldn't mind it that much if characters hit on me from the same sex but I don't want to be ninjamanced just because I'm nice. PS I know this won't be in the game but all we can do is speculate.

[shepskisaac]

OSUP wrote...

Has there been any more information about s/s romances since the original announcement?

Nothing except for Raphael Sbarge spilling that Kaidan will be available for gay romance.

[OSUP]

I did see that. If Garrus and/or Joker aren't options my Shepard will probably just sit and cry alone...

[shepskisaac]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...
@ bolded I really don't see what's wrong with this idea. If they did it to where if you picked whatever sexual orientation you were in the character creator and set it to that whichever one you picked only romances that are possible with your orientation would set off romance flags or give the possibility of that romance. I wouldn't mind it that much if characters hit on me from the same sex but I don't want to be ninjamanced just because I'm nice. PS I know this won't be in the game but all we can do is speculate.

KawaiiKatie said it the best:

No sexuality toggles. Just no.

As I stated on your post-proper, sexuality toggles imply that homosexuals and heterosexuals cannot coexist. It implies that we cannot even tolerate one another in a fictional universe. As well-meaning as your intentions may be, it is a step in the direction of intolerance and segregation, and I will not support such an implementation.

Gay toggle is nothing more than segregation. Do you really support it?

Modifié par IsaacShep, 10 juillet 2011 - 03:23 .

[PlumPaul93]

IsaacShep wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...
@ bolded I really don't see what's wrong with this idea. If they did it to where if you picked whatever sexual orientation you were in the character creator and set it to that whichever one you picked only romances that are possible with your orientation would set off romance flags or give the possibility of that romance. I wouldn't mind it that much if characters hit on me from the same sex but I don't want to be ninjamanced just because I'm nice. PS I know this won't be in the game but all we can do is speculate.

KawaiiKatie said it the best:

No sexuality toggles. Just no.

As
I stated on your post-proper, sexuality toggles imply that homosexuals and heterosexuals cannot coexist. It implies that we cannot even tolerate one another in a fictional universe. As well-meaning as your intentions may be, it is a step in the direction of intolerance and segregation, and I will not support such an implementation.

Gay toggle is nothing more than segregation. Do you really support it?

I really don't understand how it implies that gays and straights can't coexist in a fictional universe but whatever. It's just a idea to avoid romances you want no part of. You guys are getting worked up likes it's somehow trying to get rid of the gay in the game but in the way I said it's not, just getting rid of the possibility of ninjaromancing the same sex. All ninjaromances should be fixed in ME3 though not just the gay/bi ones. Like I said though it's not going to happen so whatever.

[shepskisaac]

OSUP wrote...

I did see that. If Garrus and/or Joker aren't options my Shepard will probably just sit and cry alone...

The only way to satisfy everyone would be having all of the previous LIs be available for s/s romance in ME3, which is virtually impossible to execute at this point. They already have 9 old straight romances to continue AND romances with entirely new characters to implement (at least 2 - Vega + new female), there's just no way they would have time to create another 9 new gay romances for old LIs.

[Abispa]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

I really don't understand how it implies that gays and straights can't coexist in a fictional universe but whatever. It's just a idea to avoid romances you want no part of. You guys are getting worked up likes it's somehow trying to get rid of the gay in the game but in the way I said it's not, just getting rid of the possibility of ninjaromancing the same sex. All ninjaromances should be fixed in ME3 though not just the gay/bi ones. Like I said though it's not going to happen so whatever.

Critics seem to want to have it both ways when it comes to "ninjamance." On one hand they now say that ALL romances should be ninjamance-proof since there may be a possibility that Shepard could *gasp* be hit on by a guy now. After all, it's only fair. Unfortunately, we also see plenty of players whine about their "realism" and "immersion" being broken if Ashley, Kaidan, Tali or Garrus are bisexual. Why? Because they never started a "ninjamance" with a s/s Shepard in the past.

Also, I have read posts from Bioware on other threads where it was explained that such toggles are a programming nightmare and "choice" games are plagued by enough bugs already.

[Jimmy Fury]

IsaacShep wrote...

OSUP wrote...
Has there been any more information about s/s romances since the original announcement?

Nothing except for Raphael Sbarge spilling that Kaidan will be available for gay romance.

Speculating.
Speculating that Kaidan will be available for s/s romance. Until Bioware confirms it it's all just speculation. Especially when it's recorded dialogue because, as was pointed out a lot on that thread, Meer and Hale both recorded s/s dialogue for ME1 and it got scrapped.

PlumPaul82393 wrote...
I really don't understand how it implies that gays and straights can't coexist in a fictional universe but whatever. It's just a idea to avoid romances you want no part of. You guys are getting worked up likes it's somehow trying to get rid of the gay in the game but in the way I said it's not, just getting rid of the possibility of ninjaromancing the same sex. All ninjaromances should be fixed in ME3 though not just the gay/bi ones. Like I said though it's not going to happen so whatever.

But it would be getting rid of the gay in the game. Making it a "pick one" system is literally a matter of turning off an entire sexuality in the game. It very literally makes it so that you can not have both sexualities in the game together.

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 10 juillet 2011 - 03:39 .

[ElitePinecone]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

You guys are getting worked up likes it's somehow trying to get rid of the gay in the game but in the way I said it's not, just getting rid of the possibility of ninjaromancing the same sex. All ninjaromances should be fixed in ME3 though not just the gay/bi ones. Like I said though it's not going to happen so whatever.

I have no doubt your intentions are good, but the vast majority of people suggesting this are doing it because they personally feel uncomfortable with s/s content, to the point where one line of dialogue in a 40 hour game requires a bloody filter.

To use another example: I find most of the renegade options distasteful or discomforting. I don't like torture, genocide, murder, needless cruelty and so on. The game itself features (at various points) murder, torture, cruelty, genocide, warfare, immolation, death-by-impalement-on-animal-claws, mind control, suggestions of rape, etc. None of those have a 'toggle', nor should they - because they're optional and very short-lived. People buying a Bioware game expect mature content. 

The solution to 'ninjamances' isn't quarantining straight and same-sex romances - it's designing them more clearly and with less ambiguous dialogue. Bioware have said they're doing to do this. 

A toggle is both unnecessary and perhaps even counter-productive, which is why - as you say - they don't do it. Can you imagine the headlines if a major game design company allowed players to filter the gay content? 

Even *if* the primary motivation was to aid the player, in the majority of cases people are pushing it because it's a way to cleanse their game of the two or three dialogue choices that aren't heterosexual. 

[shepskisaac]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...
It's just a idea to avoid romances you want no part of. [...] All ninjaromances should be fixed in ME3 though not just the gay/bi ones.

Then there should be a toggle for every individual character, not sexual orientation, since there will be characters of the opposite sex you do not want to romance. A toggle for every character would be ridiculous. Better to make the in-game responses more clear.

[PlumPaul93]

Abispa wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

I really don't understand how it implies that gays and straights can't coexist in a fictional universe but whatever. It's just a idea to avoid romances you want no part of. You guys are getting worked up likes it's somehow trying to get rid of the gay in the game but in the way I said it's not, just getting rid of the possibility of ninjaromancing the same sex. All ninjaromances should be fixed in ME3 though not just the gay/bi ones. Like I said though it's not going to happen so whatever.

Critics seem to want to have it both ways when it comes to "ninjamance." On one hand they now say that ALL romances should be ninjamance-proof since there may be a possibility that Shepard could *gasp* be hit on by a guy now. After all, it's only fair. Unfortunately, we also see plenty of players whine about their "realism" and "immersion" being broken if Ashley, Kaidan, Tali or Garrus are bisexual. Why? Because they never started a "ninjamance" with a s/s Shepard in the past.

Also, I have read posts from Bioware on other threads where it was explained that such toggles are a programming nightmare and "choice" games are plagued by enough bugs already.

Yes this is exactly why I know they won't put something like this into the game (to much work for something as trivial as romances). I do hope they make if fairly obvious what you'll be picking during conversations but who knows. Also the paragon and renegade argument if fine and all but that's only if they make the options to start romances pretty obvious. With paragon and renegade we know what were choosing when we pick them, but as romances have shown what you think you might be choosing and what you actually are have a good chance of being different.

[frostajulie]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Abispa wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Is it wrong of me to hope with all my heart that Garrus is bi? I'll never use the option, but... can you imagine?

Garrus isn't exactly on the top of my gayShep's wishlist.... but no way I'd turn him down. Garrus just wants something in his life to go right! He wants someone who'll treat him right! And my gayShep would treat him so very, very right~

Not gonna lie, I would adore some "Wait, you're interested in a same-sex Turian?!" dialogue.

My brother has had relationships with both men and women, which doesn't bother me as much as the whole goth thing he's into. But I do notice that many of his bisexual friends I've met -- of either sex -- have different romance styles depending on gender. Some "have some fun" with women and are "serious" with men, and vice versa.

Which makes me wonder if they'll do that with, let's say, Garrus. With female Shepard he wants to wait until it's perfect and "not a distraction." Maybe with male Shepard we'll get something like the renegade Jack romance.

God, I hope they do that. The popcorn will be on me.

I must admit this would be realistic,   I'm rarely capable of seeing men as long term relationship material.  It just doesn't seem to work,  this doesn't lessen my attraction to them of course but it does limit how far I can take an amorous relationship.  I more often than not prefer males as simply friends,  perhaps because in many ways I find it easier to be "One of the guys" over "One of the girls."  

I do think it would kind of suck though if all the M/M options were reduced to simple flings.  That seemed to be one of the problems people had with good old Zevran.

People only had this problem with Zev if A) they didn't get the ZDF mod which fixes so much of his broken romance

or

they didn't play his romance to fruitioon.

I really hate playing a male character  but I love DAO and I rolled up a male character just to get the S/S relationship with Zev and it was Beautifully done.  Zevs love and commitment to the warden made the romance all the sweeter when the warden was a male and I am still unsure why that is.  But I had to jump in to defend the honor of Zev's romance because it really was (when fixed) the most beautifully done and fleshed out romance in the game.  It was actually his romance which got me on board for a Kaiden male shep romance because if anyone can pull it off without cheapening it to gamer pandering and make it into something beautiful and enduring its Bioware.

[shepskisaac]

Jimmy Fury wrote...
Speculating that Kaidan will be available for s/s romance. Until Bioware confirms it it's all just speculation. Especially when it's recorded dialogue because, as was pointed out a lot on that thread, Meer and Hale both recorded s/s dialogue for ME1 and it got scrapped.

Rahpael wasn't "speculating". BW told him they wrote gay romance for Kaidan and he just passed on the info to the people at the Expo. Whether it ends up in the game or not is a different case. It's also a different case than in ME1 where Kaidan's gay romance was a straight copy+paste job from the straight romance (which was one of the reasons they cut it as it didn't work well in male/male context and there was no time to rewrite and rerecord it).