25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Abispa]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

Yes this is exactly why I know they won't put something like this into the game (to much work for something as trivial as romances). I do hope they make if fairly obvious what you'll be picking during conversations but who knows. Also the paragon and renegade argument if fine and all but that's only if they make the options to start romances pretty obvious. With paragon and renegade we know what were choosing when we pick them, but as romances have shown what you think you might be choosing and what you actually are have a good chance of being different.

Yep, and that would be very urealistic. People never experience moments like that IRL. There are plenty of people, ususally girls I'm guessing, who were "just being nice" and found themselves being "ninjamanced.

Not defending "ninjamances" myself, mind you. I'm just amazed how IMPORTANT it is to rectify this phenomina where gay men are concerned.

[PlumPaul93]

Abispa wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

Yes this is exactly why I know they won't put something like this into the game (to much work for something as trivial as romances). I do hope they make if fairly obvious what you'll be picking during conversations but who knows. Also the paragon and renegade argument if fine and all but that's only if they make the options to start romances pretty obvious. With paragon and renegade we know what were choosing when we pick them, but as romances have shown what you think you might be choosing and what you actually are have a good chance of being different.

Yep, and that would be very urealistic. People never experience moments like that IRL. There are plenty of people, ususally girls I'm guessing, who were "just being nice" and found themselves being "ninjamanced.

Not defending "ninjamances" myself, mind you. I'm just amazed how IMPORTANT it is to rectify this phenomina where gay men are concerned.

Well yes this happens I guess but usually it's where the guy or girl thinks a person is into them when they're just being nice (they don't start talking about there future like characters in ME ). One of the reasons I believe it's been talked about so much is because of anders in DA2. I'm sure I'll get a response saying it's only a small penalty in the long run but you shouldn't be penalized for who you are. I know the DA and ME teams are different but either way it's the most recent thing in people's mind. I'm just looking for a possibility that solves this problems.

edit:and by problems I mean ninjamances or being penalized for turning someone down not gay romances!

Modifié par PlumPaul82393, 10 juillet 2011 - 04:02 .

[Jimmy Fury]

IsaacShep wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...
Speculating that Kaidan will be available for s/s romance. Until Bioware confirms it it's all just speculation. Especially when it's recorded dialogue because, as was pointed out a lot on that thread, Meer and Hale both recorded s/s dialogue for ME1 and it got scrapped.

Rahpael wasn't "speculating". BW told him they wrote gay romance for Kaidan and he just passed on the info to the people at the Expo. Whether it ends up in the game or not is a different case. It's also a different case than in ME1 where Kaidan's gay romance was a straight copy+paste job from the straight romance (which was one of the reasons they cut it as it didn't work well in male/male context and there was no time to rewrite and rerecord it).

That's my point though. Raphael, contrary to what the tweets and post say, didn't confirm Kaidan is s/s romancable. According to the podcast he only said Bioware had written it up and he likes the idea.
And the guy in the podcast cuts himself off from saying Raphael said he was "pretty sure" and switches to "yeah it's in there" so I'd question whether Raphael was even as certain as they're reporting. Unfortunately we don't have the audio from the con and the podcast and that poster don't even seem to say the same thing. The poster implies that he said he had recorded lines but the podcast guys don't say that.

Plus i'm bitter and paranoid and consider everything speculation (and unlikely!) until bioware confirms it.
Prevents disappointement later.

[shepskisaac]

Of course he won't say "Yeah 100% confirmed etc" since he worked with BW before thus knows not everything he records ends up in the game and BW decides it without telling him anything. But one thing that is clear from both accounts is that he said it was BW that told him about writing gay romance for Kaidan so to me that's still a very significant information. Especially considering it was a fresh information (he only had one session with BW at that time) AND at the same time coming after the official confirmation of the s/s romances in general.

[Maugrim]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

Well yes this happens I guess but usually it's where the guy or girl thinks a person is into them when they're just being nice (they don't start talking about there future like characters in ME ). One of the reasons I believe it's been talked about so much is because of anders in DA2. I'm sure I'll get a response saying it's only a small penalty in the long run but you shouldn't be penalized for who you are. I know the DA and ME teams are different but either way it's the most recent thing in people's mind. I'm just looking for a possibility that solves this problems.

edit:and by problems I mean ninjamances or being penalized for turning someone down not gay romances!

And then you have to separate the people like me, who think it's perfectly ok to be hit on by a NPC and to get 'rivalry' from them, as long as both actions are in character.   I do think you should be able to shut them down with a variety of responses but then again I believe the NPC's attitude should determine how they react, just because you want to be nice to them doesn't mean they should take it that way.  Either way it's not a small penalty...it's not a penalty at all, it's just a reflection of how they feel about you.  If it was a penalty there wouldn't be people who prefer to rival characters.  I always rival Merrill as a friend, romance or otherwise because she gets to comfortable dealing with her demon.

People always complain about how loud and insistent the s/s crowd is.  So why is it that I've never seen, posted or started a thread where I complained about Alistair/Zevran/Anders etc. hitting on my female characters?  Even if you managed to scour the boards and find one or two such posts/thread you'd have to admit they are not the phenomenon that are the anti-s/s threads.  The reason a toggle has been suggested IS  because of the  'h' word.  That doesn't mean you are , but that is the driving force behind the suggestion.  Besides being bad for RP and complicated to implement you have the fact that supporting it has unfortunate implications for Bioware.  The benefits are non-existent and the negatives are huge. Bad idea all around.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 10 juillet 2011 - 04:44 .

[Abispa]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

Well yes this happens I guess but usually it's where the guy or girl thinks a person is into them when they're just being nice (they don't start talking about there future like characters in ME ). One of the reasons I believe it's been talked about so much is because of anders in DA2. I'm sure I'll get a response saying it's only a small penalty in the long run but you shouldn't be penalized for who you are. I know the DA and ME teams are different but either way it's the most recent thing in people's mind. I'm just looking for a possibility that solves this problems.

edit:and by problems I mean ninjamances or being penalized for turning someone down not gay romances!

Actually, I defended the Anders' "ninjamance" in an epic rant I'm pretty proud of on page 143. I couldn't stand the character on a personal level, like how I can't stand Jack, but I actually like annoying characters in my RPGs. Anyway, I think his "ninjamance" is probably one of the better written segments in the game, and I mean that in a GOOD way (yes, I KNOW DA2 was flawed).

[Maugrim]

Yeah also what Abispa said on page 143!

[Anyashadow]

I hope that they allow Ash and Kaidan to be available for same sex romance, if only because they were originally meant to be that way. Even with the taking out of the romance text, there were hints of it remaining, like one poster said, the FemShep "Dismissed, Chief" tone of voice.

I know I was disappointed with having only Liara in ME1, as she was too mouse-like for me. ME2's dlc for her was much better, she grew up. And I think it was rather annoying for there to be no same sex option at all for male Shep.

To be honest, I've become a fan of Bioware's protagonist-sexual characters that we got in DA2. It makes it easier to write and gives people choice. I'm hoping they do more of this moving on.

[PlumPaul93]

makenzieshepard wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

Well yes this happens I guess but usually it's where the guy or girl thinks a person is into them when they're just being nice (they don't start talking about there future like characters in ME ). One of the reasons I believe it's been talked about so much is because of anders in DA2. I'm sure I'll get a response saying it's only a small penalty in the long run but you shouldn't be penalized for who you are. I know the DA and ME teams are different but either way it's the most recent thing in people's mind. I'm just looking for a possibility that solves this problems.

edit:and by problems I mean ninjamances or being penalized for turning someone down not gay romances!

And then you have to separate the people like me, who think it's perfectly ok to be hit on by a NPC and to get 'rivalry' from them, as long as both actions are in character.   I do think you should be able to shut them down with a variety of responses but then again I believe the NPC's attitude should determine how they react, just because you want to be nice to them doesn't mean they should take it that way.  Either way it's not a small penalty...it's not a penalty at all, it's just a reflection of how they feel about you.  If it was a penalty there wouldn't be people who prefer to rival characters.  I always rival Merrill as a friend, romance or otherwise because she gets to comfortable dealing with her demon.

People always complain about how loud and insistent the s/s crowd is.  So why is it that I've never seen, posted or started a thread where I complained about Alistair/Zevran/Anders etc. hitting on my female characters?  Even if you managed to scour the boards and find one or two such posts/thread you'd have to admit they are not the phenomenon that are the anti-s/s threads.  The reason a toggle has been suggested IS  because of the  'h' word.  That doesn't mean you are , but that is the driving force behind the suggestion.  Besides being bad for RP and complicated to implement you have the fact that supporting it has unfortunate implications for Bioware.  The benefits are non-existent and the negatives are huge. Bad idea all around.

Well it is a penalty if it isn't what you want to do. I to would have been more happy if the choices were better on turning him down but ooh well. I don't really care that anders is gay or bi or whatever I care that he hits on me because I pick the nice responses (not the flirty ones) and just because of that he hits on me, if he hit's on me no matter what conversation choices I make and I don't get penalized (like zevran in DAO) I'd be like okay then I don't mind, but because I'm being nice shouldn't = hitting on me which means +15 rivalry. Back onto topic, on the Mass Effect characters hitting on me thing  I really wouldn't care although I'd just start laughing if garrus or thane start hitting on me because it would be just so silly.

[Jimmy Fury]

This might be an unpopular opinion but I really hope if Ash and Kaidan are s/s romancable they aren't the only s/s romancable characters.

I'd feel cheated. If I can't have the epic-3-game-story-arc then I'd rather have a universal-third-act-romance. I'd feel like I don't get the whole story if s/s Kaidan is a third-act-romance but hetero!Kaidan is this sweeping tale of romance and betrayal.
But that's just me.

[Anyashadow]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

Abispa wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

Yes this is exactly why I know they won't put something like this into the game (to much work for something as trivial as romances). I do hope they make if fairly obvious what you'll be picking during conversations but who knows. Also the paragon and renegade argument if fine and all but that's only if they make the options to start romances pretty obvious. With paragon and renegade we know what were choosing when we pick them, but as romances have shown what you think you might be choosing and what you actually are have a good chance of being different.

Yep, and that would be very urealistic. People never experience moments like that IRL. There are plenty of people, ususally girls I'm guessing, who were "just being nice" and found themselves being "ninjamanced.

Not defending "ninjamances" myself, mind you. I'm just amazed how IMPORTANT it is to rectify this phenomina where gay men are concerned.

Well yes this happens I guess but usually it's where the guy or girl thinks a person is into them when they're just being nice (they don't start talking about there future like characters in ME ). One of the reasons I believe it's been talked about so much is because of anders in DA2. I'm sure I'll get a response saying it's only a small penalty in the long run but you shouldn't be penalized for who you are. I know the DA and ME teams are different but either way it's the most recent thing in people's mind. I'm just looking for a possibility that solves this problems.

edit:and by problems I mean ninjamances or being penalized for turning someone down not gay romances!

I agree that it's annoying to get rival points with anders for turning him down, but I also got rival points from other characters for being nice to them, such as Fenris.  At first, I hated that it would happen, but during another playthough I realized that this made them more fleshed out as characters.  People are complex to interact with, so Bioware adding that made the characters seem more real to me.  Getting Carver to like you is an uphill battle, so is Fenris if you are a mage.  This makes sense according to their characters, it fits.  I think that people are more sensitive to Anders because 1.  The rivalry is from a sexual topic, and 2.  His character changed, and people didn't like that much.

Asside from that, I want there to be more obvious clues as to what topic heading is the romantic one.  My FemShep had to beat Kaidan over the head with a stick to get him to leave her alone and every other decussion with Jacob had my FemShep throwing herself at him.  Maybe it's because my tv doesn't render the words in the convo wheel very well, but even when I could read it, I'd end up reloading because what sounding friendly in my head came out as a come-on somehow.

[AngelicMachinery]

frostajulie wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Abispa wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Is it wrong of me to hope with all my heart that Garrus is bi? I'll never use the option, but... can you imagine?

Garrus isn't exactly on the top of my gayShep's wishlist.... but no way I'd turn him down. Garrus just wants something in his life to go right! He wants someone who'll treat him right! And my gayShep would treat him so very, very right~

Not gonna lie, I would adore some "Wait, you're interested in a same-sex Turian?!" dialogue.

My brother has had relationships with both men and women, which doesn't bother me as much as the whole goth thing he's into. But I do notice that many of his bisexual friends I've met -- of either sex -- have different romance styles depending on gender. Some "have some fun" with women and are "serious" with men, and vice versa.

Which makes me wonder if they'll do that with, let's say, Garrus. With female Shepard he wants to wait until it's perfect and "not a distraction." Maybe with male Shepard we'll get something like the renegade Jack romance.

God, I hope they do that. The popcorn will be on me.

I must admit this would be realistic,   I'm rarely capable of seeing men as long term relationship material.  It just doesn't seem to work,  this doesn't lessen my attraction to them of course but it does limit how far I can take an amorous relationship.  I more often than not prefer males as simply friends,  perhaps because in many ways I find it easier to be "One of the guys" over "One of the girls."  

I do think it would kind of suck though if all the M/M options were reduced to simple flings.  That seemed to be one of the problems people had with good old Zevran.

People only had this problem with Zev if A) they didn't get the ZDF mod which fixes so much of his broken romance

or

they didn't play his romance to fruitioon.

I really hate playing a male character  but I love DAO and I rolled up a male character just to get the S/S relationship with Zev and it was Beautifully done.  Zevs love and commitment to the warden made the romance all the sweeter when the warden was a male and I am still unsure why that is.  But I had to jump in to defend the honor of Zev's romance because it really was (when fixed) the most beautifully done and fleshed out romance in the game.  It was actually his romance which got me on board for a Kaiden male shep romance because if anyone can pull it off without cheapening it to gamer pandering and make it into something beautiful and enduring its Bioware.

I love the Zevran romance myself,  while I must admit I prefer the Liara romance Zevran is by far my favorite character in DAO.  His dialogue is fantastic throughout the game,  I've just seen a few people make complaints that follow that particular line of thought.

Hell,  somehow I ended up with Zevran and Leilana in love with one of my wardens without ever engaging Zev's sex scene.  I don't know why but for some reason that really made my day,  particularly when I received letters from both of them in Awakenings.

[Jimmy Fury]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...
Well it is a penalty if it isn't what you want to do. I to would have been more happy if the choices were better on turning him down but ooh well. I don't really care that anders is gay or bi or whatever I care that he hits on me because I pick the nice responses (not the flirty ones) and just because of that he hits on me, if he hit's on me no matter what conversation choices I make and I don't get penalized (like zevran in DAO) I'd be like okay then I don't mind, but because I'm being nice shouldn't = hitting on me which means +15 rivalry. Back onto topic, on the Mass Effect characters hitting on me thing  I really wouldn't care although I'd just start laughing if garrus or thane start hitting on me because it would be just so silly.

Let me ask you this:
Did you see it as an unfair penalty when Morrigan would disapprove of neutral responses from the player?
Or was that just part of her character?

[ElitePinecone]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

This might be an unpopular opinion but I really hope if Ash and Kaidan are s/s romancable they aren't the only s/s romancable characters.

I'd feel cheated. If I can't have the epic-3-game-story-arc then I'd rather have a universal-third-act-romance. I'd feel like I don't get the whole story if s/s Kaidan is a third-act-romance but hetero!Kaidan is this sweeping tale of romance and betrayal.
But that's just me.

They won't be the only ones. 

Hudson has confirmed new characters will be in the game, no matter what. 

At this stage Ash/Kaidan are considered an unlikely 'bonus' on top of whatever new character(s) Bioware introduces for s/s. 

[Doogan_]

This is why gay people are dangerous.

http://imageshack.us...edangerous.png/

Modifié par Doogan_, 10 juillet 2011 - 05:31 .

[PlumPaul93]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...
Well it is a penalty if it isn't what you want to do. I to would have been more happy if the choices were better on turning him down but ooh well. I don't really care that anders is gay or bi or whatever I care that he hits on me because I pick the nice responses (not the flirty ones) and just because of that he hits on me, if he hit's on me no matter what conversation choices I make and I don't get penalized (like zevran in DAO) I'd be like okay then I don't mind, but because I'm being nice shouldn't = hitting on me which means +15 rivalry. Back onto topic, on the Mass Effect characters hitting on me thing  I really wouldn't care although I'd just start laughing if garrus or thane start hitting on me because it would be just so silly.

Let me ask you this:
Did you see it as an unfair penalty when Morrigan would disapprove of neutral responses from the player?
Or was that just part of her character?

well the difference in this scenario is the fact that you're forced to turn him down rudely just because you're nice to him. Disagreeing with morrigan and saying something that pisses her off is different than bad conversation options.

[AngelicMachinery]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...


well the difference in this scenario is the fact that you're forced to turn him down rudely just because you're nice to him. Disagreeing with morrigan and saying something that pisses her off is different than bad conversation options.

I'm pretty sure Ander would be pissed no matter how you turn him down.  You could say "Dood,  I Luv you as a bro you're totally great but I don't see us ever having sexy time."  He'd still pout,  he'd still stomp his feet,  why?  Because he's a prat.

[Jimmy Fury]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...
well the difference in this scenario is the fact that you're forced to turn him down rudely just because you're nice to him. Disagreeing with morrigan and saying something that pisses her off is different than bad conversation options.

Except that it is absolutely not.
There's a reason I didn't ask about disagreeing with Morrigan. I asked specifically about being neutral with Morrigan.

Morrigan disapproves of just about everything that doesn't directly agree with her. Including neutral responses.
Yet nobody seems to even notice.
Why?
Because that's who she is. Morrigan is kind of a b*tch. She disapproves of everything. It plays to her personality so we role with it and most of us love her for it.

So why exactly is it a pentalty for Anders to be upset when you turn him down? Yes you were just being nice.
Anders is an emotionally unstable abomination who just found out his former lover was made tranquil - the fate he himself fears more than anything else in the world- and his advances were just turned down by this person who is being really nice to him.

-edit to add: context really is important to characters and their reactions. I just don't understand why we process that subconsciously with everyone else but with Anders suddenly context and characterization go out the window and everything is meta.-

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 10 juillet 2011 - 05:41 .

[ElitePinecone]

Doogan_ wrote...

Reported. 

Everybody else: please ignore this moron and remember not to quote the post. 

[PlumPaul93]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...
well the difference in this scenario is the fact that you're forced to turn him down rudely just because you're nice to him. Disagreeing with morrigan and saying something that pisses her off is different than bad conversation options.

Except that it is absolutely not.
There's a reason I didn't ask about disagreeing with Morrigan. I asked specifically about being neutral with Morrigan.

Morrigan disapproves of just about everything that doesn't directly agree with her. Including neutral responses.
Yet nobody seems to even notice.
Why?
Because that's who she is. Morrigan is kind of a b*tch. She disapproves of everything. It plays to her personality so we role with it and most of us love her for it.

So why exactly is it a pentalty for Anders to be upset when you turn him down? Yes you were just being nice.
Anders is an emotionally unstable abomination who just found out his former lover was made tranquil - the fate he himself fears more than anything else in the world- and his advances were just turned down by this person who is being really nice to him.

That's fine and all but the problem with this are the options are 1.start a romance 2.Kindda hint that a romance started (I don't know for sure if middle option starts romance but there is a heart) 3.Act like a ****** which warrants rivalry. There is no neutral option regarding this (which should be able to save my ass if I don't want to lose points because of design oversight). That's all I'm asking for a way to avoid getting penalized because the game did something you didn't want it to do or say. Now I'm done talking about this since were just talking about the same stuff over and over and probably going off topic.

Modifié par PlumPaul82393, 10 juillet 2011 - 05:46 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Strange story, somehow I earned friendship from turning down Anders once.

Modifié par AngelicMachinery, 10 juillet 2011 - 05:50 .

[King Gigglez]

Am I the only person who thinks the majority of the Krogen population is bi? Just because of the fact that there aren't many fertile females and while they would want to reproduce with them, wouldn't 'pervertedness' affect them and just start having sex with one another?

I also don't know how to explain it... but to me it makes some sense...

[Maugrim]

Just gonna drop this here.

Abispa wrote....

So, a lonely, isolated, desperate, apostate abomination has a moment and actually considered that he had found someone, anyone, who could provide some emotional stability and perhaps even some snuggle-bunnies. And, in a moment of disappointed, he becomes upset when he finds out he's wrong.

Honestly, people, there were quite a few stupid scenes that made no sense in DA2, but that wasn't one of them. I would dare say it was DAMN realistic.

Now stop ****ing over 5 rivalry points.

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Strange story, somehow I earned friendship from turning down Anders once.

This almost sounds like a bug but then again knowing how Anders be cray cray....

[Jimmy Fury]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...
That's fine and all but the problem with this are the options are 1.start a romance 2.Kindda hint that a romance started (I don't know for sure if middle option starts romance but there is a heart) 3.Act like a ****** which warrants rivalry. There is no neutral option regarding this (which should be able to save my ass if I don't want to lose points because of design oversight). That's all I'm asking for a way to avoid getting penalized because the game did something you didn't want it to do or say. Now I'm done talking about this since were just talking about the same stuff over and over and probably going off topic.

None of that is in anyway related to sexuality though.
What you just described is an issue with the dialogue system being awkward and not properly communicating the tone of Hawke's response. Yes, that's an issue in a lot of places and is in no way restricted to the conversation with Anders.
A sexuality toggle wouldn't have stopped that. It certainly won't stop it in ME3 as Shep is the reigning lord and master of awkward moments where his/her tone is more aggressive/friendly than the dialogue wheel indicated.

[HopHazzard]

King Gigglez wrote...

Am I the only person who thinks the majority of the Krogen population is bi? Just because of the fact that there aren't many fertile females and while they would want to reproduce with them, wouldn't 'pervertedness' affect them and just start having sex with one another?

I also don't know how to explain it... but to me it makes some sense...

What is this? I don't even.