25715 réponses à ce sujet

[shepskisaac]

Quething wrote...

I'm beginning to regret giving advice to the Abispas on how to separate themselves. XD

So here's a question. I lost the link to the poll, but if you ask the BSN what extant female LI they'd most want to see be bisexual, it's pretty evenly split, with Miranda and Ashley in the lead. If you ask what male LI should be bisexual, the answer is overwhelmingly Kaidan, and the aliens get almost no votes at all.

Is this because people like humans but don't like Jacob? But Tali still does pretty well... (okay seriously what was up with Tali's LotSB dossier, somebody please tell me that was a bug, because otherwise BioWare was seriously trolling us.)

Here's the female poll you're were talking about, and here's its male counterpart.

The answer to your question ain't simple. One thing is definitely the alien part. Male alien LIs are MUCH more alien in their design than female ones. Even though you can't see Tali clearly, the shape of her face visible through the tube is obviously humanoid so even if she looks more alien than Liara (who's basically just a human female painted blue and with funny hairstyle) she will still look much more human than Garrus and Thane. And Jacob's not liked by majority in general so that's kinda self-explanatory. Kaidan's popularity for gay romance mirrors his popularity among straight female fanbase, he's just the favourite male LI overall while female LIs are more evenly beloved. Additionally, Kaidan's popularity is fuled by the fact he was suppoused to be a romance option for mShep in ME1 and even though it was cut, there're still lots of moments with homoerotic tension between him and mShep, especially on Horizon.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 14 juillet 2011 - 02:13 .

[Abispa]

You know, aside from the fact that female Shepard sounds like she's in heat when talking to him, one of the things that hurts Jacob, IMHO, is that he is the character that suffers the most from those bizarre teeth ME2 characters have. I'm not sure why that is, since all the characters have those weird dentures, but they are REALLY noticeable on him.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

Modifié par Abispa, 14 juillet 2011 - 02:48 .

[bleetman]

Jacob is the human soldier on a ship full of alien badasses. He'd probably do a lot better in the interesting-****-o-meter if his more daredevil'ing events weren't all kept in the comics. You never really hear about anything he gets up to in Cerberus prior to ME2, except for one time and in vague detail..

Is that just who he is, as a character? Never one to splurge his life details at the push of a button, the past is the past, so on and so forth? Probably. But it makes him look boring, because he's seemingly never really credited with doing anything interesting.

[Quething]

Jacob and Miranda both have strange writing. Through the tutorial and Freedom's Progress, he's a friendly, reasonable soldier who's got your back and she's a suspicious, imperious ass who keeps "forgetting" that Shep's in charge and not her. Then you hit the Normandy and suddenly she's friendly and helpful and he's riding your butt for even trying to say hello, and even his "I've got nothing to say right now" is really rude and off-putting. It hurts her less than him, though, because the Normandy is so much bigger a chunk of the game.

I like him, but I think that's at least 50% leftover affection from being in his shoes through ME:Galaxy.

He would make a good s/s candidate, though, for those with "retcon" paranoia. He's downright hostile to the idea of a relationship with Shepard, femShep has to kind of bully him into it. It's easy to argue that if dudeShep had had the opportunity to bully him the same way, he'd have gone for it just as well.

Though to my mind the whole point of making an existing LI available to both genders is to give us the option of a proper story-spanning romance, which Jacob doesn't help with.

[Chun Hei]

There were too many LIs in ME2. I think Miranda especially suffered since she needed more time for her to turn from "bad" to "good" in a realistic way. But the horses are out of the barn because each LI has a passionate fan base. I am interested to see how Bioware handles ME3 especially if some characters are made s/s romances.

[shepskisaac]

Chun Hei wrote...

There were too many LIs in ME2.

Quite frankly this. Pointless to debate who should've been cut as like you said every character has its fanbase now, but there should've just been 4 LIs.

[jlb524]

Quething wrote...

I'm beginning to regret giving advice to the Abispas on how to separate themselves. XD

So here's a question. I lost the link to the poll, but if you ask the BSN what extant female LI they'd most want to see be bisexual, it's pretty evenly split, with Miranda and Ashley in the lead. If you ask what male LI should be bisexual, the answer is overwhelmingly Kaidan, and the aliens get almost no votes at all.

I've wondered the same.

Quething wrote...
Is this because people like humans but don't like Jacob? But Tali still does pretty well... (okay seriously what was up with Tali's LotSB dossier, somebody please tell me that was a bug, because otherwise BioWare was seriously trolling us.)

Tali really digs humans.

Chun Hei wrote...

There were too many LIs in ME2. I think Miranda especially suffered since she needed more time for her to turn from "bad" to "good" in a realistic way. But the horses are out of the barn because each LI has a passionate fan base. I am interested to see how Bioware handles ME3 especially if some characters are made s/s romances.

I agree.

Modifié par jlb524, 14 juillet 2011 - 03:37 .

[lazuli]

Abispa wrote...

You know, aside from the fact that female Shepard sounds like she's in heat when talking to him, one of the things that hurts Jacob, IMHO, is that he is the character that suffers the most from those bizarre teeth ME2 characters have. I'm not sure why that is, since all the characters have those weird dentures, but they are REALLY noticeable on him.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

The lighting in the armory is what makes his teeth look weird.  They're fine in other scenes.  During the conversation in which you acquire his Loyalty Mission, it's especially pronounced, though.

[Siansonea]

lazuli wrote...

Abispa wrote...

You know, aside from the fact that female Shepard sounds like she's in heat when talking to him, one of the things that hurts Jacob, IMHO, is that he is the character that suffers the most from those bizarre teeth ME2 characters have. I'm not sure why that is, since all the characters have those weird dentures, but they are REALLY noticeable on him.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

The lighting in the armory is what makes his teeth look weird.  They're fine in other scenes.  During the conversation in which you acquire his Loyalty Mission, it's especially pronounced, though.

YES. Chiclet teeth and alligator mouth. Jacob's top lip is unnaturally stiff, and has a weird "smiley" aspect that looks reeeeally strange when he's talking. When Jacob isn't talking, he's a hottie, but as soon as the mouth starts going, it's just a world of no.

[lazuli]

Siansonea II wrote...

YES. Chiclet teeth and alligator mouth. Jacob's top lip is unnaturally stiff, and has a weird "smiley" aspect that looks reeeeally strange when he's talking. When Jacob isn't talking, he's a hottie, but as soon as the mouth starts going, it's just a world of no.

I think of both Jacob and Ashley as possessing some good angles, and then some truly foul angles.  I can see what you're saying, though.



Credit goes to Collider, of course.

[KawaiiKatie]

It's amusing, the asari Jacob hate can't just stay in one thread it HAD to find a way here. It is admittedly getting tedious.



Trololololo....

ANYway, I'm not sure that I agree with all these comments about Jacob's teeth (of all things!) but if he just doesn't do it for you, I get that.

But if Jacob is a same-sex option in ME3, my gayShep's gonna hit that like a biotic FREIGHT TRAIN! <3

[Siansonea]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

It's amusing, the asari Jacob hate can't just stay in one thread it HAD to find a way here. It is admittedly getting tedious.



Trololololo....

ANYway, I'm not sure that I agree with all these comments about Jacob's teeth (of all things!) but if he just doesn't do it for you, I get that.

But if Jacob is a same-sex option in ME3, my gayShep's gonna hit that like a biotic FREIGHT TRAIN! <3

No Jacob hate here, I actually like him. I just wish he could get those awful veneers removed.

[shepskisaac]

lazuli wrote...
I think of both Jacob and Ashley as possessing some good angles, and then some truly foul angles.

Ohh god, I am reminded of her 'smile' during unromanced Horizon scene. The horror. And that was even without the teeth visible! Kaidan didn't look good in the same scene either

[Game_Fan_85]

Abispa wrote...

You know, aside from the fact that female Shepard sounds like she's in heat when talking to him, one of the things that hurts Jacob, IMHO, is that he is the character that suffers the most from those bizarre teeth ME2 characters have. I'm not sure why that is, since all the characters have those weird dentures, but they are REALLY noticeable on him.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

What about the eyes?  Alot of ME characters suffer from "cross eye syndrome", but Jacob seemed to be the worst.  Ashley was pretty bad too.  I wish they'd fix that for ME3.

[Maugrim]

IsaacShep wrote...

lazuli wrote...
I think of both Jacob and Ashley as possessing some good angles, and then some truly foul angles.

Ohh god, I am reminded of her 'smile' during unromanced Horizon scene. The horror. And that was even without the teeth visible! Kaidan didn't look good in the same scene either

Let's just face that nobody came out looking good on Horizon in all the ways that sentence could possibly be applied.

[Siansonea]

Yeah, BioWare needs to work out their strabismus protocols.

[bleetman]

Quething wrote...

Jacob and Miranda both have strange writing. Through the tutorial and Freedom's Progress, he's a friendly, reasonable soldier who's got your back and she's a suspicious, imperious ass who keeps "forgetting" that Shep's in charge and not her. Then you hit the Normandy and suddenly she's friendly and helpful and he's riding your butt for even trying to say hello, and even his "I've got nothing to say right now" is really rude and off-putting. It hurts her less than him, though, because the Normandy is so much bigger a chunk of the game.

Heh, yes. It's actually another reason I want a sarcasm option for Shepard.

"Cerberus isn't as evil as most people believe"
"Uh. Control chip?"
"I was just being honest"
"Kind of my point"

[Quething]

bleetman wrote...

Heh, yes. It's actually another reason I want a sarcasm option for Shepard.

"Cerberus isn't as evil as most people believe"
"Uh. Control chip?"
"I was just being honest"
"Kind of my point"

Haha, oh man, I was so annoyed we never got a chance to throw that back in her face when we find out about her controlling father. I love Miranda, but I'd love her more if she actually got a proper character development arc. I think there were just too many NPCs in ME2 in general, LI or otherwise.

Though getting back to the poll issue, I think I'm actually mostly surprised that Ash is so popular a choice (thanks for the links, by the way, Isaac). I got the impression the fanbase doesn't like her much, and didn't even before BioWare wrote Horizon with the specific goal of making the VS a pariah. Certainly if you were going by sheer popularity, I'd expect Tali to be in the lead, or at least only barely trailing Miranda. (I might actually pursue the Tali romance if it were s/s; the Merrill rivalmance squicks me less with fem!Hawke, I bet Tali would work the same.)

Modifié par Quething, 14 juillet 2011 - 03:55 .

[somecthemes]

I'm totally thrilled that ME3 will have s/s relationships. I might not've been trying to get my Shep and Kaiden to hook up, but the option would've been nice during my 30th or so playthrough when I might've just wanted to see how it played out.
Don't want to throw off the discussion, but has there been any confirmation over who might be availible to who in ME3? I'm just hoping the single asari on the crew isn't the only s/s relationship that is being developed.

[Jimmy Fury]

somecthemes wrote...

I'm totally thrilled that ME3 will have s/s relationships. I might not've been trying to get my Shep and Kaiden to hook up, but the option would've been nice during my 30th or so playthrough when I might've just wanted to see how it played out.
Don't want to throw off the discussion, but has there been any confirmation over who might be availible to who in ME3? I'm just hoping the single asari on the crew isn't the only s/s relationship that is being developed.

Casey Hudson's tweet, which is included in the OP, says "same sex for m&f chars" so that rules out Liara being the only one.

I had worried about that too until I saw the exact wording of the tweet.

[shepskisaac]

somecthemes wrote...

Don't want to throw off the discussion, but has there been any confirmation over who might be availible to who in ME3?

Raphael Sbarge spilled the the news that BW wrote gay romance for Kaidan for ME3. That's all we've heard so far regarding who.

[somecthemes]

Nice, thanks Jummy. I've been reading and noticed some people wondering how certain characters would suddenly find a s/s relationship interesting when it was out of bounds in the first game. My idea was that either the Alliance had a old "don't ask don't tell policy" that needed to be repealed, or the Cerberus modifications let Shep emit super potent pheramones that attract all comers now.
Should be interesting to see if there's a story explanation or if it's just glossed over.

[jtav]

I think they'll open up the VS to be romanced by both genders and that will be that. The romance will need to be rebooted anyway because or Horizon, and you'd have to go out of your way to spare the s/s option. Cut down on nijammance complaints by the insecure.

[Siansonea]

somecthemes wrote...

Nice, thanks Jummy. I've been reading and noticed some people wondering how certain characters would suddenly find a s/s relationship interesting when it was out of bounds in the first game. My idea was that either the Alliance had a old "don't ask don't tell policy" that needed to be repealed, or the Cerberus modifications let Shep emit super potent pheramones that attract all comers now.
Should be interesting to see if there's a story explanation or if it's just glossed over.

A lot of people have wondered how it would play out, but I don't think that's much of an obstacle at all. I can see it playing out a couple of ways:

Shepard: "So, how come you and I never got together?"
S/S LI: "Huh? I never thought you were interested in me that way. If I HAD known, maybe we WOULD have."
Shepard: "So, I'm guessing it's too late now, huh?"
S/S LI: "I dunno, let me think about it. Okay, I've thought about it. Meet me in your quarters in five minutes."

....or

Shepard: "Why are you looking at me like that?"
S/S LI: "I'm trying to flirt with you. How am I doing?"
Shepard: "Wait—flirt with me? I had no idea you were interested in me. Where did that come from?"
S/S LI: "Come on Shepard, everyone knows you're the sexiest creature that ever lived and no one can resist your charms. I tried to resist, and failed. Thus the flirting."
Shepard: "Well, the flirting needs some work, but I like the sentiment behind it."
S/S LI: "Great. Now what?"
Shepard: "Uh, wanna go on a date?"
S/S LI: "Don't you think we're past that?"
Shepard: "Yeah."
S/S LI: "Then let's skip to the kiss."
***epic smoochytimes***

So that's my take, but of course with good writing instead of my hamfisted attempts at romantic dialogue (I'm not good at that stuff in real life either).

Modifié par Siansonea II, 14 juillet 2011 - 04:37 .

[ElitePinecone]

Yeah, I think it's more a case of mixed signals (if indeed the VS is an option) rather than *any* sort of military regulations.

Alliance society in 2183 is enormously tolerant of human diversity, given the melting pot of ethnicities and cultures that are meant to make up the majority of humanity (even if this isn't always reflected in the game, it's shown in the novels and wider universe). Plus, Shepard mentions Alliance regulations that guarantee religious freedom (something about 'The regs say I can't tell you what to believe', to Ashley) - it's enormously likely that similar anti-discrimination rules would exist for sexual orientation, political beliefs and so on.

I think they'd write it rather well, Hudson has obviously stated that they're aiming to preserve character continuity and a few of the other writers (Patrick Weekes and Mac Walters especially) have been tweeting about the need to balance existing characterisation with taking them into new areas, story-wise.

The whole quote from Weekes was "Working hard to strike a balance. If chars don't grow, stagnate, feel like caricature. If too different, lose their magic." (You can tell he wrote Mordin! )