25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Aradace]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

ALL the LIs "bisexual" instead of only a couple of them. Kaiden, I can see being one of the "bisexual" ones. I can even see Miranda and/or Jack being one. But characters like Garrus, Tali, or Ashley? I hope not.

So, being raped by a woman makes Jack a lesbian whilst a quarian teenager's sexual orientation is fixed for life? Could you please explain how that makes any sense whatsoever?

Holy phantom implications batman!! Seriously, it was just an example.  It had nothing to do with any of the character's "histories".  It's just how I personally felt about it.  I "personally" could see Miranda or Jack being bi where as I "personally" cant see Garrus or Tali being so.  No need to be so defensive lol

[Criz]

I liked that Jack implied being lesbian, but wasn't interested in femShep; but I can also understand how some femShep players wouldn't like this if they intended to romance her

while I'd hope Kaidan would be bi, I could also accept if mShep tries to flirt with him and Kaidan turns him down, but then at least they were talking about it at some point

I want the option as a player to say, 'sorry, but no' even if the npc 'disapproves' of it, you can't expect them to be happy about being turned down, as long as they cool off later (I'm looking at you, Jack)
likewise I'd want the npcs to be able to say 'no', but that's probably stretching the whole romance stuff, especially since ME3 has more pressing concerns ... like a Reaper invasion, it might have been nice in the quiet moments of ME1 or ME2

so I'm a bit conflicted between what I want and what I think is realistic to expect; I mean, I wouldn't want the overall story to suffer just so we can flirt with everyone in the middle of a battle or something ^_~

[Kidd]

diskoh wrote...

For months upon months I've had a lot of trouble wrapping my head around why it upsets some people if a previously unromancable character becomes a same sex option. I've heard all of the reasons, and all of them have an obvious answer to me and don't make sense. I guess it's just an emotional or intangible thing to people.

I'm not sure what reasons you've heard, but the only worry I'd have about it is that BioWare would pretty much have to create two separate romances for the two. The way I see it, ME1&ME2 sets up the romances - they all end at the same point (barring Liara, perhaps =)), and then ME3 have them culminating. With completely new S/S options, those romances will be written knowing they will have to go from start to finish within a single game. Whereas if, say, Miranda becomes available to FemShep, then could FemShep really use the same dialogue between Miranda and Shep as Miranda and ManShep have?

I'm all for pouring resources into the romances though, they're one of the most important parts of the game to me. It'd just kinda suck if, say, my Shep who romanced Garrus will have to go through the initial courting phase again just to make sure there's no confusion between ManShep and Garrus. But if we can have two separate scripts... yes please! That's eating the cake and getting to save it at the same time, to me =)

[ElitePinecone]

Autoclave wrote...

Will there be any sort of game option or run command to disable all this homosexual crap? I don't even want to see such dialog choice appear in my maleshep playthroughs 

No.

[Stardusk78]

Criz-Zone wrote...

I liked that Jack implied being lesbian, but wasn't interested in femShep; but I can also understand how some femShep players wouldn't like this if they intended to romance her

~

Jack is not a lesbian, she MIGHT be bisexual but it is the sort that rings of abuse and then is confused about her sexuality, not because she is genetically a lesbian.

[Stardusk78]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Comsky159 wrote...

diskoh wrote...

For months upon months I've had a lot of trouble wrapping my head around why it upsets some people if a previously unromancable character becomes a same sex option. I've heard all of the reasons, and all of them have an obvious answer to me and don't make sense. I guess it's just an emotional or intangible thing to people.

It's a matter of literary integrity. Changing sexuality of characters (particularly those we've known for a while) says that blatant fetishism is more important than the ME universe. It's been discussed a number of times and it's impossible to argue effectively about it without prominant literary theory on videogames.

I know that the OP didn't want discussion about continuity but I think it is the major issue with S/S romance at the moment and gravitation towards the topic in threads like this is quite evolutionary.

I believe that characters and sexualities can evolve, grow, and change throughout the course of a story, especially one as long as Mass Effect. Think of Willow from Buffy the Vampire Slayer--did her sexuality not grow and evolve with her character throughout the course of the story? Did you not know and love Willow for so very long as the shy, "straight" little bookworm with her quiet little crushes? Did you not learn to love her as the bold, confident lesbian unashamed of her sexuality?

I have faith that if the Bioware writers choose to show us a new side of old characters, they will do so with great care and consideration to the integrity of the established canon.

Doe real people's sexuality grow and develop? Am I straight for 5 years, bi for 4 after that and gay for 20 after that? Terrible argument.

[Criz]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Jack is not a lesbian, she MIGHT be bisexual but it is the sort that rings of abuse and then is confused about her sexuality, not because she is genetically a lesbian.

sorry, I meant to say that she's also interested in women

[wheelyjon]

Hi, sorry I thought we wern't getting a thread bk till more info came out, don't tell i'm missed some juicey titbit, have i?

[Comsky159]

diskoh wrote...

Comsky159 wrote...

diskoh wrote...

For months upon months I've had a lot of trouble wrapping my head around why it upsets some people if a previously unromancable character becomes a same sex option. I've heard all of the reasons, and all of them have an obvious answer to me and don't make sense. I guess it's just an emotional or intangible thing to people.

It's a matter of literary integrity. Changing sexuality of characters (particularly those we've known for a while) says that blatant fetishism is more important than the ME universe. It's been discussed a number of times and it's impossible to argue effectively about it without prominant literary theory on videogames.

I know that the OP didn't want discussion about continuity but I think it is the major issue with S/S romance at the moment and gravitation towards the topic in threads like this is quite evolutionary.

See, I don't mean to insult you or your opinion, but this just seems silly to me. The idea that the slow or even sudden development of feelings is in any way lacking in literary integrity or breaks continuity.

I've had far too many things in my life happen for me to understand this. My best friend since childhood, who I knew from elementary school, came out to me in our third year of college. He had dated girls many times. My reaction was not "You've changed your sexuality, this is a retcon and lacks literary integrity." And as I've said in a million of these discussions before, my wife and I were friends for 6 years before we ever developed romantic feelings and started dating. I compare it to Tali and Shepard, which many people have expressed dislike for because they consider it a retcon. I didn't meet my wife in Diskoh Effect 1, and say "Hello, I'm attracted to you and right away I have feelings for you." No, our feelings developed over several years and through many experiences together. Then we admitted it to one another.

This is just how real human (and I assume alien) emotions develop. Nothing is static or set in stone or black and white. There is no such thing as a closed door.

I'm sorry I missed this before as you argued your point well. I'll try to respond concisely to your perspective.

There's not really any evidence of whether Bioware are altering existing characters or if so, which characters they might alter so it's difficult to make authentic judgements right now. However we should keep in mind that exemplification of the dynamism of a real relationship isn't always practical when applied to the constraints of those relationships formed within a videogame, as while the latter may be representations of authentic life they are invariably restrained by comparably superficial literary paradigms. They aren't living and breathing beings and hence aren't as vivacious as you seem to presume, rather they are simply imitations of life spawned from a fusion of conscious (and unconscious) thought.

Basically it is not realistic to expect the character depth pertaining to the situation you propose, even in something as progressive as ME. The issue of consistency in video games is an entirely different ball game to consistency in reality.

[ElitePinecone]

wheelyjon wrote...

Hi, sorry I thought we wern't getting a thread bk till more info came out, don't tell i'm missed some juicey titbit, have i?

I thought the same, but apparently not. 

We might get something soon, or we might have to wait for months. Very difficult to tell.

So you haven't missed anything. 

[78stonewobble]

Stardusk78 wrote...
Doe real people's sexuality grow and develop? Am I straight for 5 years, bi for 4 after that and gay for 20 after that? Terrible argument.

Well based wholly on myself: I can't predict the future and anything could happen. However I have never had any romantic or physical attraction to a guy.

Status sofar must be 100 % straight. Atleast thats the only conclusion I can come to. Sofar...


Offcourse one can never understand wholly how other people "work"/approach a subject like that.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 14 juin 2011 - 01:12 .

[78stonewobble]

Montezuma IV wrote...

I'm pretty sure it isn't too far of a strech to conclude she IS bisexual.

Is that hinted at in the conversations? Because I never noticed that.

[78stonewobble]

Montezuma IV wrote...

She's said on mutiple accounts of how she didn't want a relationship and specifically included women with men. She also said she had a male and female friend who "helped" her into "their" bed. You can try to work you're way around it but she's definitely not limiting herself to men.

I remember the triangle thing but missed the other part totally. My bad.

[Darkhour]

Ryzaki wrote...

Darkhour wrote...
1. I could say the same thing to people who got no acknowledgement in DA:O. Must be a bug or they did something wrong.

 

And it would be true if you said that...so your point is?  (them lying really doesn't stop the fact that what you said was a flat out lie). 

I lie implies willful deceit. As I have never experienced a high level of recognition of a heterosexual relationship in DA2, my comments are made in truth.  I can't comment or make judgements based on other people's (at that point unknown) experiences.

[Darkhour]

Criz-Zone wrote...

I liked that Jack implied being lesbian, but wasn't interested in femShep; but I can also understand how some femShep players wouldn't like this if they intended to romance her

She implied she was a in a 3-some with a man and a woman. That doesn't mean she did anything with the other woman.

[Erani]

Darkhour wrote...

Criz-Zone wrote...

I liked that Jack implied being lesbian, but wasn't interested in femShep; but I can also understand how some femShep players wouldn't like this if they intended to romance her

She implied she was a in a 3-some with a man and a woman. That doesn't mean she did anything with the other woman.

This made me laugh way too much. :happy::lol:

[KillTheLastRomantic]

Ryzaki wrote...

Jokermance. Please bi Joker.

Or a new guy. Hopefully Big Ben.

Pretty late to the discussion but whatever. A million yes's to m/m Big Ben Sniper. But I doubt it very much.

[shepskisaac]

Comsky159 wrote...
It's a matter of literary integrity. Changing sexuality of characters (particularly those we've known for a while) says that blatant fetishism is more important than the ME universe. It's been discussed a number of times and it's impossible to argue effectively about it without prominant literary theory on videogames.

I know that the OP didn't want discussion about continuity but I think it is the major issue with S/S romance at the moment and gravitation towards the topic in threads like this is quite evolutionary.

Comsky159 wrote...
I just wish Bioware would have made the decision to include S/S in ME1, introducing it now makes this option far more problematic then it had to be. If they were going to be ultimately libertarian, then they should have just bitten the bullet when S/S was only a social issue, now there is the potential for gamebreaking literary problems to arise. I wouldn't have cared in ME1, now at this later stage I do.

You can't "change" something that wasn't established in the first place. None of the characters explistly stated his/her sexual oritentation. As much as you may not like it, that's just how it is. Another thing is that you don't seem to have a problem with Tali who didn't reveal her feelings in ME1, only did that in ME2. Yet you have problems with bisexual characters having reasons no to reveal their feelins. Duble standards FTW.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 14 juin 2011 - 02:09 .

[mopotter]

Hellbound555 wrote...

i heard people saying they wanted james vegas as a s/s romance. perssonaly im apposed to vega being a romance option period. hes such a new character that shepard just met. it'd make more sense if it was one of the established male characters. to me anyways.

It depends on what kind of back story they give him.  He's in the military, from his looks, they could have met years ago and this brings them back together, even if he's not in the military they could have known each other somewhere.  I'd actually like meeting some of Shepards old friends.

[KillTheLastRomantic]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I've actually been rather rude to all the female romance characters because of Liara's ninja-mance in the first game.

I think I 'almost' tripped it with Jack... but at the end of ME 2 I didn't have the romance achievement so I was happy.

At what point does Jacks romance activate? I can never seem to avoid it.

[Siansonea]

@Autoclave: Read the OP. You're in the wrong thread. Take that discussion point to another thread, or make one of your own.

[diskoh]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Doe real people's sexuality grow and develop? Am I straight for 5 years, bi for 4 after that and gay for 20 after that? Terrible argument.

Maybe or maybe not, but what definitely does develop is how they handle it and what they tell other people about it. Ever hear of coming out of the closet? A large % of gay people date hetero for years before they admit either to themselves or to others that they are gay.

Modifié par diskoh, 14 juin 2011 - 03:37 .

[Cartims]

Autoclave wrote...

Will there be any sort of game option or run command to disable all this homosexual crap? I don't even want to see such dialog choice appear in my maleshep playthroughs 

Close your eyes, pretend it's not there, good boy!