25715 réponses à ce sujet

[FKA_Servo]

TheMarshal wrote...


No, it hasn't.  It's been confirmed that all past squaddies will be returning, but not in what capacity.  We could see some of them having Wrex-style cameos, some might be temporary squaddies, and others might be with the crew full-time.  Casey Hudson also implied that LI's (both new and returning) might not necessarily be squaddies.

Yeah, I should have qualified that. I didn't mean that they would not be present in some capacity. I guess what I meant was that it has been confirmed that the active squad will be smaller than ME2. I hadn't really considered the idea of temporary squadmembers hopping in on a mission to mission basis a la Liara in LoTSB until now.

I still don't think that this would disqualify a non-squadmember like Joker (or Kelly, as we've already seen - or Chakwas!) from being a fully-fledged love interest. All the meaningful stuff happens on the Normandy and in cutscenes anyway.

Modifié par TommyServo, 14 juin 2011 - 06:19 .

[FKA_Servo]

MACharlie1 wrote...

There seems to be this preconceived notion that one cannot be religious and bi/homosexual at the same time.

Huh. Must've missed that meeting...

Also, this.

[Eternal Dust]

Darkhour wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I do find it significant that she calls the woman by her name (Marana) but just refers to the man as "her boyfriend". Clearly Marana was the person Jack was most attached to, whether romantically or otherwise.

I think you see what you want to see. Jack turns "femshep" down on the basis that she doesn't swing that way. And that is not open to any interpretation.

Which is somewhat insulting because the game automatically thinks talking a lot = wants sex. I hope they fix this in ME3 and there are, at least, branching friendship paths.

[Ryzaki]

MACharlie1 wrote...

There seems to be this preconceived notion that one cannot be religious and bi/homosexual at the same time.

Huh. Must've missed that meeting...

Yeah...odd that. 

[shadowreflexion]

OK, bad example. Let me remove religion. Let's look at her character. And take note, I'm not trying to force a view on you. Lets use the lack of interest in aliens. All throughout the game, we know that Ashley isn't racist but she has some very sound reasoning to why she doesn't like aliens right? Then lets flash forward to the confrontation you have if you trigger it by choosing Liara over her. Ashley has some old fashioned beliefs when it comes to humans. Now could it be said that taking those same beliefs would make a same sex romance alien to her as well?

And before you hit me with "she can be converted". I have SS friends who find that mode of thinking insane. It's just that looking at what she believes to be normal, (not saying that SS relationships aren't) I don't see her giving an inch to be with another woman. She strikes me as one wanting to settle down with a husband similar to her father (some of her father's qualities I mean.) and raising a family. Her character is written in that old fashioned way.

[FKA_Servo]

shadowreflexion wrote...

OK, bad example. Let me remove religion. Let's look at her character. And take note, I'm not trying to force a view on you. Lets use the lack of interest in aliens. All throughout the game, we know that Ashley isn't racist but she has some very sound reasoning to why she doesn't like aliens right? Then lets flash forward to the confrontation you have if you trigger it by choosing Liara over her. Ashley has some old fashioned beliefs when it comes to humans. Now could it be said that taking those same beliefs would make a same sex romance alien to her as well?

And before you hit me with "she can be converted". I have SS friends who find that mode of thinking insane. It's just that looking at what she believes to be normal, (not saying that SS relationships aren't) I don't see her giving an inch to be with another woman. She strikes me as one wanting to settle down with a husband similar to her father (some of her father's qualities I mean.) and raising a family. Her character is written in that old fashioned way.

I've never actually had the showdown between them. What does she say?

[Ryzaki]

You'd have been better off trying to use her bluntness as a person as an reason for her not being attracted to FemShep. Because...you know that actually is there.

[TheMarshal]

TommyServo wrote...

Yeah, I should have qualified that. I didn't mean that they would not be present in some capacity. I guess what I meant was that it has been confirmed that the active squad will be smaller than ME2. I hadn't really considered the idea of temporary squadmembers hopping in on a mission to mission basis a la Liara in LoTSB until now.

I still don't think that this would disqualify a non-squadmember like Joker (or Kelly, as we've already seen - or Chakwas!) from being a fully-fledged love interest. All the meaningful stuff happens on the Normandy and in cutscenes anyway.

And perhaps during quantum-entanglement communications with certain information brokers...?  >.>

[Ryzaki]

TheMarshal wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

Yeah, I should have qualified that. I didn't mean that they would not be present in some capacity. I guess what I meant was that it has been confirmed that the active squad will be smaller than ME2. I hadn't really considered the idea of temporary squadmembers hopping in on a mission to mission basis a la Liara in LoTSB until now.

I still don't think that this would disqualify a non-squadmember like Joker (or Kelly, as we've already seen - or Chakwas!) from being a fully-fledged love interest. All the meaningful stuff happens on the Normandy and in cutscenes anyway.

And perhaps during quantum-entanglement communications with certain information brokers...?  >.>

LOL I think Liara was the exception and no the rule in that scenario. 

[shadowreflexion]

TommyServo wrote...

shadowreflexion wrote...

OK, bad example. Let me remove religion. Let's look at her character. And take note, I'm not trying to force a view on you. Lets use the lack of interest in aliens. All throughout the game, we know that Ashley isn't racist but she has some very sound reasoning to why she doesn't like aliens right? Then lets flash forward to the confrontation you have if you trigger it by choosing Liara over her. Ashley has some old fashioned beliefs when it comes to humans. Now could it be said that taking those same beliefs would make a same sex romance alien to her as well?

And before you hit me with "she can be converted". I have SS friends who find that mode of thinking insane. It's just that looking at what she believes to be normal, (not saying that SS relationships aren't) I don't see her giving an inch to be with another woman. She strikes me as one wanting to settle down with a husband similar to her father (some of her father's qualities I mean.) and raising a family. Her character is written in that old fashioned way.

I've never actually had the showdown between them. What does she say?

Here you go.

[jlb524]

Darkhour wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I do find it significant that she calls the woman by her name (Marana) but just refers to the man as "her boyfriend". Clearly Marana was the person Jack was most attached to, whether romantically or otherwise.

I think you see what you want to see. Jack turns "femshep" down on the basis that she doesn't swing that way. And that is not open to any interpretation.

So do others see what they want to see.

The 'girls club' line is open to interpretation, as it could and does mean 'not into women' to some and to others, it means 'I don't want to be best girl buds with you and go shoe shopping'.

[rolson00]

shadowreflexion wrote...

octoberfire wrote...

rolson00 wrote...

well my vote is for gay ashley as you can see from below

I totally support Gay Ashley. Ever since the palpable sexual tension in FemShep's "Dismissed, Chief" line, there can be no other!

Concerning this I have three question?
Before you go crazy on it, think about what I wrote.

Ashley is deeply religious. She has convictions and a belief in her faith. If Bioware went against that system they set up to "accommodate" players interest on that matter then she was never who she was written to be. Even though same sex may be an option, I don't think it should hold true for certain characters if a system has been established for them already. She's not repressed and she thinks clearly in what she believes in so which direction would be reasonable for further character development? I mean, to placate a crowd by ignoring what you made a character takes away the strength of the character and frankly it makes something meaningless.

The most important questions are these.
Should Bioware make changes to Ashley's sexuality when they gave her conviction in the finished game?
And if so, does it lessen her and how she was written?

your forgetting shadow that bioware were going to make her bi in me1 but didnt i think coz they didnt want the game to be R rated(i think feel free to correct me) but gay people have faith too i new a guy at college who was a real "bible nut" you can be gay and have faith too. plus ashley doesnt mention her preference oncewith femshep its all eye sex and sutle flirting lines like the "dismissed chief"

Modifié par rolson00, 14 juin 2011 - 06:34 .

[shepskisaac]

Ryzaki wrote...
It's too late. No LI is gonna provide a trilogy experience. NONE 

NO LI CAN DO THAT UNLESS THEY REMAKE ME1.

Of course, but the second best is a s/s romance with a former full-time squaddie. If we can't get the best at this point, I want second-best. Not just third or fourth-best.

Ryzaki wrote...
Nope you're right. If Joker's straight he's straight. I might pout but I'll get over it. If Joker was an option for FemShep and the writers said the gay romance subplot "didn't do his character justice." I'd drop it.

Love the selective quoting You forgot to quote the latter part how they didn't have time to produce new cutscenes and how simple copy&pasted dialogues didn't fit in m/m context. Not to mention it's only one of the many accounts on this subject from BW devs, but of course you will only focus on the single one (and single sentence) that suits you.

Ryzaki wrote...
What development? Oh please I'll wait. Where does his relatioship with Male Shepard change at all? 

Horizon is the same exact script for female and male Shepard. It's because the developers were lazy not because Shepard had some secret longing for Shepard all that time (well any Shepard other than FemShepard) [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie]

How do you know they were lazy? Is it me or you're just guessing their intentions?  What's important is what is said (or not) in the games. If Kaidan has repressed feelings towards unromanced FemShep and lets them out on Horizon, the same applies for ManShep since like you've said the lines are the same

Ryzaki wrote...
Uh...no. Joker has plenty of reasoning not to show his feelings towards either Shepard. Kaidan decides it's okay to show his feelings towards Female Shepard but not even give a hint to male SHepard? Not even become friendly with male Shepard? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie] Really? That's what deep longing means to you?

Why would he give a hint to a guy he percieves straight? He has brain, he knows if a guy is straight he. won't. care. for. a. sign. It's Shepard that has to make the first move. And if you think comparing losing Shepard to losing a limb ain't good enough proof of deep connection than you simply try to defy logic and common sense and further discussion is pointless.

Ryzaki wrote...
Actually if I'm to be honest I don't care if it's Joker. I'd prefer Joker. If it's  Kaidan however I'll cry. Especially since Kaidan has no basis forany friendship let alone romantic relationship in my eyes. It'll feel the most forced and unnatural of all the relationships. Even more so than Tali coming out of nowhere and telling my renedouche who refused to give her the data that she had a crush on him since he was calling her alien, telling her the geth outbreak was all her people's fault and refusing to give her the geth data.  

LOL no basis for friendship or romance, at this point you're just making stuff up. You've created a group specifically interested in ManShep/Kaidan romance yourself along with support banners, you've only changed your mind on Kaidan after you got scared of the rector people started screaming about retcons and not because you agree with them, but because you got scared of them. And I love how you do everything to neglect Kaidan's attraction to ManShep while on the same page in the same thread finding reasons why Ashley totally can be attracted to FemShep.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 14 juin 2011 - 06:36 .

[Eternal Dust]

shadowreflexion wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

shadowreflexion wrote...

OK, bad example. Let me remove religion. Let's look at her character. And take note, I'm not trying to force a view on you. Lets use the lack of interest in aliens. All throughout the game, we know that Ashley isn't racist but she has some very sound reasoning to why she doesn't like aliens right? Then lets flash forward to the confrontation you have if you trigger it by choosing Liara over her. Ashley has some old fashioned beliefs when it comes to humans. Now could it be said that taking those same beliefs would make a same sex romance alien to her as well?

And before you hit me with "she can be converted". I have SS friends who find that mode of thinking insane. It's just that looking at what she believes to be normal, (not saying that SS relationships aren't) I don't see her giving an inch to be with another woman. She strikes me as one wanting to settle down with a husband similar to her father (some of her father's qualities I mean.) and raising a family. Her character is written in that old fashioned way.

I've never actually had the showdown between them. What does she say?

Here you go.

Yea sorry, I don't really see where those "old fashioned beliefs" were coming into play in that video. She's wary of Liara because she's not human. It's an understandable reaction. I'm not sure how you can equate  this to her reaction with a same sex romance though.

[bleetman]

shadowreflexion wrote...

Ashley has some old fashioned beliefs when it comes to humans. Now could it be said that taking those same beliefs would make a same sex romance alien to her as well?

I'd say considering that Mass Effect is set nearly two hundred years into the future (but only a few years after first contact with other sentient species which resulted in a war that affected Ashley's family significantly) trying to conclude that being a bit suspicious of alien races demonstrates old fashioned attitudes that also relate to sexuality is... a little presumptious.

On a side note? I'm liking this. I've mostly been skimming through the thread every so often so far, but having folk explain their positions without intermittent 'lol add a gay toggle' style crap is pleasing.

Modifié par bleetman, 14 juin 2011 - 06:40 .

[MACharlie1]

I would think because of aliens coming onto the scene, the whole s/s issue would be dropped in favor of something even more unnatural which is sex with another species.

[Ryzaki]

@Issac: You know what? Nevermind.

If you must know. I changed my mind after replaying ME1 without tricking Kaidan into thinking my Male Shepard was female. After I did that I realized how much of NOTHING was there. But whatever if you're gonna mis-construct my arguments to make me some "OMG SHE'S SCARED SHE MIGHT NOT GET HER DIGITAL BOYFRIEND!" there's no point.  Nevermind the fact that I said I'd be fine with *anyone* else. Nope. 

I'm not fond of completely derailing past relationships to shoehorn in a romance. And yes I will be furious (not cry bad term) if the game decides to make my male Shepard and Kaidan (who never had more than a icy professional relationship best buds).

This is the last post I'll direct towards you. Have anice life.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 juin 2011 - 06:58 .

[shadowreflexion]

rolson00

[/quote]
your forgetting shadow that bioware were going to make her bi in me1 but didnt i think coz they didnt want the game to be R rated(i think feel free to correct me) but gay people have faith too i new a guy at college who was a real "bible nut" you can be gay and have faith too. plus ashley doesnt mention her preference oncewith femshep its all eye sex and sutle flirting lines like the "dismissed chief"[/quote]
shadowreflexion:

Yeah, when the others brought it up I removed religion out of the equation. From the finished aspect of the game, even though BW removed her SS relationship option, her character became that traditional old fashioned woman. Nowadays one has to be careful of what they say because everything has a rebuttal. Like in the link I posted above, Ashley says "We're not married Shep" which could be used as a basis saying that she's 100% hetero but on the same hand, SS couples can be married as well so I think that until BW actually makes her character say "I want a husband." then the discussion will contiue the way it has. With everyones own interpretation of her sexuality.

Modifié par shadowreflexion, 14 juin 2011 - 06:43 .

[MACharlie1]

[quote]shadowreflexion wrote...

rolson00

[/quote]
your forgetting shadow that bioware were going to make her bi in me1 but didnt i think coz they didnt want the game to be R rated(i think feel free to correct me) but gay people have faith too i new a guy at college who was a real "bible nut" you can be gay and have faith too. plus ashley doesnt mention her preference oncewith femshep its all eye sex and sutle flirting lines like the "dismissed chief"[/quote]
shadowreflexion:

Yeah, when the others brought it up I removed religion out of the equation. From the finished aspect of the game, even though BW removed her SS relationship option, her character became that traditional old fashioned woman. Nowadays one has to be careful of what they say because everything has a rebuttal. Like in the link I posted above, Ashley says "We're not married Shep" which could be used as a basis saying that she's 100% hetero but on the same hand, SS couples can be married as well so I think that until BW actually makes her character say "I want a husband." then the discussion will contiue the way it has. With everyones own interpretation of her sexuality.

[/quote]
I don't think the traditional old fashioned woman of 2183 is the same traditional old fashioned woman of 2011 though. What is the traditional woman these days? On the extreme side, it's a woman who wears pearls, skirts and heels while vacuuming the house and waits for Ward, Wally and the Beaver to get home. And that was...only sixty (less?) years ago? If Ashley is still thinking that s/s are odd, unnatural thing then by our standards, she's should be wearing corsets and big skirts and certainly not going near a rifle as that wouldn't be lady-like. 

[Ryzaki]

[quote]shadowreflexion wrote...

rolson00

[/quote]
your forgetting shadow that bioware were going to make her bi in me1 but didnt i think coz they didnt want the game to be R rated(i think feel free to correct me) but gay people have faith too i new a guy at college who was a real "bible nut" you can be gay and have faith too. plus ashley doesnt mention her preference oncewith femshep its all eye sex and sutle flirting lines like the "dismissed chief"[/quote]
shadowreflexion:

Yeah, when the others brought it up I removed religion out of the equation. From the finished aspect of the game, even though BW removed her SS relationship option, her character became that traditional old fashioned woman. Nowadays one has to be careful of what they say because everything has a rebuttal. Like in the link I posted above, Ashley says "We're not married Shep" which could be used as a basis saying that she's 100% hetero but on the same hand, SS couples can be married as well so I think that until BW actually makes her character say "I want a husband." then the discussion will contiue the way it has. With everyones own interpretation of her sexuality.

[/quote]

The actual quote is this

[quote]Apologies if I screwed up the quote-snipping.

Both Shepard voice actors recorded both sides of the romance. The romance dialog was included in the main follower conversation file, and ultimately, it was considered faster just to have the actor do a take on every dialog line, regardless of whether it was one that would ever fire in game, than to spend part of the VO session trying to figure out whether a given line was on the romance track or not.

Once the lines were recorded, there was a brief high-level discussion about whether we should make Kaiden and Ashley bisexual, since the lines were already there. The leads decided not to do it. The lines work on a technical level, but they didn't do justice to the characters and sounded very strange sometimes. Beyond that, there were questions about having to do a different cutscene for different genders.

But to be clear, it was never part of the plan. It was only briefly considered after the lines were recorded, and it was only recorded because it was easier and faster than marking some lines as "Hale only records".[/quote]

From here. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 juin 2011 - 06:52 .

[shepskisaac]

Ryzaki wrote...
@Issac: You know what? Nevermind.

If you must know. I changed my mind after replaying ME1 without tricking Kaidan into thinking my Male Shepard was female. After I did that I realized how much of NOTHING was there. But whatever if you're gonna mis-construct my arguments to make me some "OMG SHE'S SCARED SHE MIGHT NOT GET HER DIGITAL BOYFRIEND!" there's no point.

This is the last post I'll direct towards you. Have anice life.

Totally nothing there except for the feeling of losing a limb after ManShep died, right. But it's completly insignificant, silly me, the devs called you and said "yeah Ryzaki, we were lazy". And I don't need to mis-construct what you say, the posts in the few couple of days were completly transparent how you've turned against Kaidan idea (to the point to claim there's not even friendship there when he freaking says "LOSING YOU WAS LIKE LOSING A LIMB!") just to get Joker.

Whatever. I for one hope Joker is a romance option, I'm all for more options even if I don't use them. Unlike you who says you will cry if Kaidan's a romance option. Ridiculous.

[rolson00]

[quote]shadowreflexion wrote...

rolson00

[/quote]
your forgetting shadow that bioware were going to make her bi in me1 but didnt i think coz they didnt want the game to be R rated(i think feel free to correct me) but gay people have faith too i new a guy at college who was a real "bible nut" you can be gay and have faith too. plus ashley doesnt mention her preference oncewith femshep its all eye sex and sutle flirting lines like the "dismissed chief"[/quote]
shadowreflexion:

Yeah, when the others brought it up I removed religion out of the equation. From the finished aspect of the game, even though BW removed her SS relationship option, her character became that traditional old fashioned woman. Nowadays one has to be careful of what they say because everything has a rebuttal. Like in the link I posted above, Ashley says "We're not married Shep" which could be used as a basis saying that she's 100% hetero but on the same hand, SS couples can be married as well so I think that until BW actually makes her character say "I want a husband." then the discussion will contiue the way it has. With everyones own interpretation of her sexuality.

[/quote]
i see your point but it can be taken either way. but here is a vid that someone moded when they found the unfinished files on me1(pc) they simply finished it. but consider this to most people who support s/s making ash or kiaden bi makes more sense thenbringing in a new LI i feel the same way it would make me3 "messy" but if it were up to you would you make bi? an oldie? or som1 new?

Modifié par rolson00, 14 juin 2011 - 06:57 .

[shadowreflexion]

[quote]MACharlie1 wrote...

[quote]shadowreflexion wrote...

rolson00

[/quote]
your forgetting shadow that bioware were going to make her bi in me1 but didnt i think coz they didnt want the game to be R rated(i think feel free to correct me) but gay people have faith too i new a guy at college who was a real "bible nut" you can be gay and have faith too. plus ashley doesnt mention her preference oncewith femshep its all eye sex and sutle flirting lines like the "dismissed chief"[/quote]
shadowreflexion:

Yeah, when the others brought it up I removed religion out of the equation. From the finished aspect of the game, even though BW removed her SS relationship option, her character became that traditional old fashioned woman. Nowadays one has to be careful of what they say because everything has a rebuttal. Like in the link I posted above, Ashley says "We're not married Shep" which could be used as a basis saying that she's 100% hetero but on the same hand, SS couples can be married as well so I think that until BW actually makes her character say "I want a husband." then the discussion will contiue the way it has. With everyones own interpretation of her sexuality.

[/quote]
I don't think the traditional old fashioned woman of 2183 is the same traditional old fashioned woman of 2011 though. What is the traditional woman these days? On the extreme side, it's a woman who wears pearls, skirts and heels while vacuuming the house and waits for Ward, Wally and the Beaver to get home. And that was...only sixty (less?) years ago? If Ashley is still thinking that s/s are odd, unnatural thing then by our standards, she's should be wearing corsets and big skirts and certainly not going near a rifle as that wouldn't be lady-like. [/quote]

Mentally traditional not holding herself back in life or career. Like I said though, until BW makes her character say she's hetero then this discussion will rage on with everyones own interpretations. lol So until that time, I have to use the tried and true "Agree to disagree".

[rolson00]

shadowreflexion wrote...


Mentally traditional not holding herself back in life or career. Like I said though, until BW makes her character say she's hetero then this discussion will rage on with everyones own interpretations. lol So until that time, I have to use the tried and true "Agree to disagree".

yea  flamers will flame im going to keep rooting for s/s with her until BW either do it or say that shes not

Modifié par rolson00, 14 juin 2011 - 07:00 .

[Ryzaki]

I find it hard to believe Ash is the bi LI because...I really don't see her as the type to hold her tongue. If she wants something she seems the type to me to go after it. Damn whatever anyone else thinks.