25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Maugrim]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

sigh.  Exposure is important.  Understanding from both sides is important.  Expecting someone to accept your lifestyle because it is different is wrong.  I never expect/demand people to accept me because of what I am but welcome them to get them to know me and accept/reject me because of who I am.  You or anyone else who expects a mandatory acceptance are being intolerant.  People disagree.  Some completely reject. Others behave as zealots.  You have to greet them all in the same loving manner and take joy in being you.

gamer_girl wrote...

So you're saying we should be tolerant of intolerant people? Why should you be given the privelege of our tolerance when you obviously can't give that same respect to certain groups of people? What makes you more worthy of tolerance than them? <_<

I'mma just gonna drop this Bill Maher quote off here.  He may be a jerk sometimes but he is right on this.

"Sometimes things are better! Rule of law is better than autocracy and theocracy; equality of the sexes, better; protection of minorities, better; free speech, better; free elections, better; free appliances with large purchases, better! Don't get so tolerant that you tolerate intolerance."

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 20 juillet 2011 - 02:36 .

[FoxHound109]

You guys are wasting your breath...

[whywhywhywhy]

gamer_girl wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

Answer me this. whywhywhywhy, why are you so intolerant that you won't even be bothered to see a dialogue OPTION - aka something Shepard COULD say to a character that would be romantic? By that logic you should be offended by the toggle because it mentions the word gay and brings up the option of having gay characters.

whywhywhywhy wrote...

But I still have to question why it's "offensive" everyone act as if
every human being has been exposed to homosexuals.  I assure you this is
not the case.

So in your mind intolerance>tolerance?

sigh.  Exposure is important.  Understanding from both sides is important.  Expecting someone to accept your lifestyle because it is different is wrong.  I never expect/demand people to accept me because of what I am but welcome them to get them to know me and accept/reject me because of who I am.  You or anyone else who expects a mandatory acceptance are being intolerant.  People disagree.  Some completely reject. Others behave as zealots.  You have to greet them all in the same loving manner and take joy in being you.

So you're saying we should be tolerant of intolerant people? Why should you be given the respect of our tolerance when you obviously can't give that to certain groups of people? What makes you more worthy of tolerance than them? <_<

If you aren't tolerant of all up to the point of physical and verbal assualt then why should other tolerate you when you don't tolerate them but simply demand that they tolerate you ?  And falling to "fall in line" illicits aggression(as I have seen).  Your asking for what you refuse to give.

[Ryzaki]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Do I watch a show with a blindingly attractive gay leading man who plays a charming, cultured, blindingly attractive con man?

(and not to get off topic but me too. Well she did until tonight. She might be interesting now but I suspect not... Although Sarah has become irrelivant because thanks to last week Neil is now madly in love with Scott... in my head. )

But back to ME and things that are ME related and therefore on topic; I sometimes wonder why people who claim so much love for the story of Mass Effect have such little faith in the writers who gave them that story.
That's why I have such trouble taking the immersion argument seriously. People claim they care only about the immersion, because the scope and story of Mass Effect is so compelling that it has drawn them in for years now.
Yet they also seem to think the very same writers who brought them this epic sci-fi war tale will somehow get all stupid once it comes time to write s/s romances. I mean yes there was some hamfisting with the romances in ME2 but that was because the writers were spread thin on their resources. Few squaddies= fewer full fledged romances = better writing all around.

HE'S GAY? *jaw drops* 

WHAT HOW DID MY FANGIRL YAOI RADAR FAIL ME! HOW?!? 

Pfft. NeilxMozzie forever.  

And thank ra for that. Vega better have a damn kitten. And his name better be Sgt. Whiskers. 

[devSin]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

No he wasn't they said Alistair and the elf were LI.  They said you could ****** him off and he'd act different.  He was a good tank in combat and had some funny lines so I thought he was a cool character.

Alistair is a romance option exclusively for female characters. Zevran was the only male same-sex romance option.

Any character can "harden" Alistair, depending on what you say to him after finishing his personal quest, which changes some of the endgame content (Alistair's outlook, and epilogue, can change depending on the advice you give him).

[Maugrim]

FoxHound109 wrote...

You guys are wasting your breath...

Guys like these are a release valve for the thread and serve to bring the community toghther.  Now that he's gotten to the tolerance topic he's starting to show the true colors.  Any minute now...

[FoxHound109]

whywhywhywhy wrote...
I feel ashamed for you...

You should demand for an option to toggle that off.

[gamer_girl]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

Answer me this. whywhywhywhy, why are you so intolerant that you won't even be bothered to see a dialogue OPTION - aka something Shepard COULD say to a character that would be romantic? By that logic you should be offended by the toggle because it mentions the word gay and brings up the option of having gay characters.

whywhywhywhy wrote...

But I still have to question why it's "offensive" everyone act as if
every human being has been exposed to homosexuals.  I assure you this is
not the case.

So in your mind intolerance>tolerance?

sigh.  Exposure is important.  Understanding from both sides is important.  Expecting someone to accept your lifestyle because it is different is wrong.  I never expect/demand people to accept me because of what I am but welcome them to get them to know me and accept/reject me because of who I am.  You or anyone else who expects a mandatory acceptance are being intolerant.  People disagree.  Some completely reject. Others behave as zealots.  You have to greet them all in the same loving manner and take joy in being you.

So you're saying we should be tolerant of intolerant people? Why should
you be given the privilege of our tolerance when you obviously can't
give that same respect to certain groups of people? What makes you more
worthy of tolerance than them?

Edit:
There
is a huge difference between acceptance and tolerance. You may not be
able to accept homosexuality, but it's common social decency to tolerate
it.

If you aren't tolerant of all up to the point of physical and verbal assualt then why should other tolerate you when you don't tolerate them but simply demand that they tolerate you ?  And falling to "fall in line" illicits aggression(as I have seen).  Your asking for what you refuse to give.

Someone decode that message for me. I'm having a difficult time figuring out what is actually meant by that.

Modifié par gamer_girl, 20 juillet 2011 - 02:52 .

[whywhywhywhy]

ArawnNox wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Thank you.

So it's offensive if i'm understanding you correctly because of acceptance ?  Not everyone will accept it, not everyone accepts me I don't have a fit I simply don't care.  You point out a number of reasons why it shouldn't be a big deal and I agree but why is it a big deal to those who oppose a toggle ?  Like you said it's video game character.

Since you gave me a earnest answer I'll explain it further I bought DA:O and after coming across a video I found out Alistair was a LI.  It changed the game for me because I liked Alistair but I had to be cautious not to trigger his romance.  Because the game was this way from the beginning I adapted and it did become a chore trying to remember to save before talking to him or that assassin. 

With ME the game was never this way I can play it carefree explore every response and enjoy it.  The game is being changed and I'm accepting of this, I don't understand how the toggle isn't accepted because it will only affect how I and others who use it play the game and no one else.

First of all: Alistair is NOT a s/s option. You saw a video of a modded game and jumped to a conclusion.
What if I told you ME was intended to have s/s from the begining? Because it was.

You know that an effective toggle is? Not selecting the options that initiate a romance? Especially since now, they'll be clearly pointed out like they were in DA2.

You also contradict yourself.
Why is playing it "carefree and exploring every option" requiring a s/s toggle? That's eliminating a host of options right there. It's also a very head in the sand "if I dont see it, it's not there" reaction to the touchy subject of homosexuality.

I'm going to stop myself as this isn't even remotly on topic.
S/S is going to be in the game, like it or not, I just thing its silly and petty for it to be a deal-breaker for enjoying an otherwise fin and enjoyable game.

That's for the heads up on Alistair had to correct a different post.  I disagree that I'm contradicting.  I'm not homosexual I have zero interest in and content that contains it.  I simply do not enjoy it, how is that a head in the sands approach ?  It's not fun and I still suppose to do it to prove something ?  Absolutely not. 

[devSin]

FoxHound109 wrote...

You guys are wasting your breath...

More moaning and panting, and less arguing, is that it?

I see what you're really suggesting. :-)

Modifié par devSin, 20 juillet 2011 - 02:49 .

[FoxHound109]

gamer_girl wrote...

Someone decode that message for me. I'm having a difficult time figuring out what is actually meant by that.

It's tripe.  It's like saying that if I'm a blond-blue eyed male in Na zi Germany that Ishould tolerate concentration camps because I'm being tolerated.

P.S. Really? This forum blocks out the word: "Na zi" (minus the spaces)?

Modifié par FoxHound109, 20 juillet 2011 - 02:45 .

[MACharlie1]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

ArawnNox wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Thank you.

So it's offensive if i'm understanding you correctly because of acceptance ?  Not everyone will accept it, not everyone accepts me I don't have a fit I simply don't care.  You point out a number of reasons why it shouldn't be a big deal and I agree but why is it a big deal to those who oppose a toggle ?  Like you said it's video game character.

Since you gave me a earnest answer I'll explain it further I bought DA:O and after coming across a video I found out Alistair was a LI.  It changed the game for me because I liked Alistair but I had to be cautious not to trigger his romance.  Because the game was this way from the beginning I adapted and it did become a chore trying to remember to save before talking to him or that assassin. 

With ME the game was never this way I can play it carefree explore every response and enjoy it.  The game is being changed and I'm accepting of this, I don't understand how the toggle isn't accepted because it will only affect how I and others who use it play the game and no one else.

First of all: Alistair is NOT a s/s option. You saw a video of a modded game and jumped to a conclusion.
What if I told you ME was intended to have s/s from the begining? Because it was.

You know that an effective toggle is? Not selecting the options that initiate a romance? Especially since now, they'll be clearly pointed out like they were in DA2.

You also contradict yourself.
Why is playing it "carefree and exploring every option" requiring a s/s toggle? That's eliminating a host of options right there. It's also a very head in the sand "if I dont see it, it's not there" reaction to the touchy subject of homosexuality.

I'm going to stop myself as this isn't even remotly on topic.
S/S is going to be in the game, like it or not, I just thing its silly and petty for it to be a deal-breaker for enjoying an otherwise fin and enjoyable game.

That's for the heads up on Alistair had to correct a different post.  I disagree that I'm contradicting.  I'm not homosexual I have zero interest in and content that contains it.  I simply do not enjoy it, how is that a head in the sands approach ?  It's not fun and I still suppose to do it to prove something ?  Absolutely not. 

Don't knock till you try it.  (I love this smiley in this context) 

[Ajaxto]

<--- Guys want to do him too. It's totally understandable. He is hot and sizzlin. ^^

[FoxHound109]

devSin wrote...

FoxHound109 wrote...

You guys are wasting your breath...

More moaning and panting, and less arguing, is that it?

I know what you really want. :-)

<3

[Siansonea]

Slightly off topic: Warehouse 13, the SyFy show, has a added a gay male character, played by Aaron Ashmore. He's only been in two episodes so far, and he only revealed that he is gay in the second episode, but so far the character is being handled extremely well. I just found it interesting, because in the first episode there was no "hint" that he was gay. Does that mean the second episode is *gasp*—a retcon?

Personally I find all this talk of a gay toggle slightly redundant. We already HAVE a gay toggle. It's called the Dialog Wheel. There will be a toggle of several options: Sex Up A Dude, Don't Sex Up A Dude, and Investigate Sexing Up A Dude. So, problem solved, right?

[Markun120]

Siansonea II wrote...

Slightly off topic: Warehouse 13, the SyFy show, has a added a gay male character, played by Aaron Ashmore. He's only been in two episodes so far, and he only revealed that he is gay in the second episode, but so far the character is being handled extremely well. I just found it interesting, because in the first episode there was no "hint" that he was gay. Does that mean the second episode is *gasp*—a retcon?

Personally I find all this talk of a gay toggle slightly redundant. We already HAVE a gay toggle. It's called the Dialog Wheel. There will be a toggle of several options: Sex Up A Dude, Don't Sex Up A Dude, and Investigate Sexing Up A Dude. So, problem solved, right?

One would think.  

[Markun120]

Deleted.

Modifié par Markun120, 20 juillet 2011 - 02:51 .

[gamer_girl]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

Answer me this. whywhywhywhy, why are you so intolerant that you won't even be bothered to see a dialogue OPTION - aka something Shepard COULD say to a character that would be romantic? By that logic you should be offended by the toggle because it mentions the word gay and brings up the option of having gay characters.

whywhywhywhy wrote...

But I still have to question why it's "offensive" everyone act as if
every human being has been exposed to homosexuals.  I assure you this is
not the case.

So in your mind intolerance>tolerance?

sigh.  Exposure is important.  Understanding from both sides is important.  Expecting someone to accept your lifestyle because it is different is wrong.  I never expect/demand people to accept me because of what I am but welcome them to get them to know me and accept/reject me because of who I am.  You or anyone else who expects a mandatory acceptance are being intolerant.  People disagree.  Some completely reject. Others behave as zealots.  You have to greet them all in the same loving manner and take joy in being you.

So you're saying we should be tolerant of intolerant people? Why should
you be given the privilege of our tolerance when you obviously can't
give that same respect to certain groups of people? What makes you more
worthy of tolerance than them?

Edit:
There
is a huge difference between acceptance and tolerance. You may not be
able to accept homosexuality, but it's common social decency to tolerate
it.

If you aren't tolerant of all up to the point of physical and verbal assualt then why should other tolerate you when you don't tolerate them but simply demand that they tolerate you ?  And falling to "fall in line" illicits aggression(as I have seen).  Your asking for what you refuse to give.

Ok I think I figured out that nonsense. You are asking for us to tolerate you while you are intolerant of homoesxuality. You think my being intolerant of you is showing that I'm being a hypocrite. If I tolerate you, that's showing I tolerate intolerance. If I tolerate what you say, that shows I have no problem with intolerance. However paradoxical it may seem, I can't tolerate your intolerant words because I don't like people who are intolerant of something that is a human right.

Modifié par gamer_girl, 20 juillet 2011 - 03:08 .

[whywhywhywhy]

Going to bed after this post.

devSin wrote...
I'm not sure what you're toggling then? You want to specify the sexuality of every character? Are you fine with a gay character, or do you simply want a character who is only defined by their sexuality (so you know you don't have to take them along)?

fine with gay characters, I thought Alistair was gay because of a pc mod, heck I even killed off my PC so he could live as king.  I just think if they changed a Allistair type character from straight to homosexual I wouldn't want to play the game that way.  I'd want to toggle back to the orginal.  Keep in mind I picked Allistair, morrigan and leelani I think is her name ?  That was my favorite group.

devSin wrote...
Characters change. The writers will integrate this as they desire, and you won't always like where they go. Certainly there were some odd choices in ME2, and none of that was optional. But unlike those changes, you have an instant out if you don't want sexuality of certain characters to factor in the game: don't make advances on them. You can assume that Kaidan, Garrus, Wrex, and whoever are exclusively heterosexual based on things they may or may not say, but understand and accept that it's only an assumption. And if you're not interested in possibly pursuing a more intimate relationship with any of them, simply avoid the "Your butt looks nice in that armor." response on the dialogue wheel.

It's more a response to the many many I want this character bi threads.  The characters feel compromised in relation to the original storyline if these requests are put in place.

devSin wrote...
If this bothers you, I'm not sure what to tell you. Maybe if you better explained what exactly you're expecting a toggle to change? But even then, I don't think you'll find people here to be all that receptive (none of the other obligatory character changes are similarly up for debate, so why is this single one so dire that you can't play the game without being able to hide the fact that it's there at all?). Similarly, I refuse to believe that you truly can't see how considering something so bad that you feel the need to have the ability to remove it altogether can be offensive to some.

I have above I'm tiring so this was a poor response but I'll pop back in the morning.  Thanks gnight all.

[Chun Hei]

It is apparent the whywhywhywhy is simply playing a game of keyboard chicken with this thread and has decided that if he can keep typing his progressively confused posts he can claim some kind of moral victory. Let him have his fantasy since we have apparently robbed him of his ability to fantasize with ME3.

I am a straight female who is finally going to be able to let her male virgin Shepards have some hot gay sex. I will be celebrating the triumph of love over intolerance while blowing up some aliens and evil super robots. If he is telling the truth he will not buy it and will spend the time we are on the game typing up posts for this forum railing against how much fun we are hopefully having.

Pity him if you want or just ignore him. I will let you guess what I am going to do.

[FoxHound109]

Chun Hei wrote...
I am a straight female who is finally going to be able to let her male virgin Shepards have some hot gay sex. I will be celebrating the triumph of love over intolerance while blowing up some aliens and evil super robots...

This is another thing I wanted to point out: people think that the male/male romances are only to pander to the gay community, and specifically to gay gamers. But the truth is that there is a pretty large market for male/male romances for WOMEN in general: hence why a recent scientific study found that straight women are more likely to watch gay porn than straight porn, why there are thousands of stories slashing male characters together, why yaoi is so massive in Japan (and growing in the West), and why the romance novel has seen a resurgence of women writing gay romances for other women to read. Hell, Anders for DA II was written by a woman.

[Siansonea]

FoxHound109 wrote...

Chun Hei wrote...
I am a straight female who is finally going to be able to let her male virgin Shepards have some hot gay sex. I will be celebrating the triumph of love over intolerance while blowing up some aliens and evil super robots...

*snip of fun animated gif*

This is another thing I wanted to point out: people think that the male/male romances are only to pander to the gay community, and specifically to gay gamers. But the truth is that there is a pretty large market for male/male romances for WOMEN in general: hence why a recent scientific study found that straight women are more likely to watch gay porn than straight porn, why there are thousands of stories slashing male characters together, why yaoi is so massive in Japan (and growing in the West), and why the romance novel has seen a resurgence of women writing gay romances for other women to read. Hell, Anders for DA II was written by a woman.

Hear hear. It's worth noting that the original FFTL thread and group was started by a straight male, and the current president of said group, yours truly, is a straight woman. This isn't an "us" versus "them" situation, because many of "us" are on "their" side. As far as I'm concerned there is no "them", we're just one big "us". Fact is, lots of straight people would pursue s/s romances in a video game. It's a video game. I'm pretty sure playing as ManShep doesn't somehow make me a man, and I'm pretty sure sexing up Kelly doesn't make me a lesbian. Sorry girls.

[jlb524]

FoxHound109 wrote...

This is another thing I wanted to point out: people think that the male/male romances are only to pander to the gay community, and specifically to gay gamers. But the truth is that there is a pretty large market for male/male romances for WOMEN in general: hence why a recent scientific study found that straight women are more likely to watch gay porn than straight porn, why there are thousands of stories slashing male characters together, why yaoi is so massive in Japan (and growing in the West), and why the romance novel has seen a resurgence of women writing gay romances for other women to read. Hell, Anders for DA II was written by a woman.

I can't fathom why a straight woman would want to see two hot dudes hook up.

Actually, now that you mention Anders' writer...both Anders and Fenris were written by males and both Merrill and Isabela by females...hmmmm....

[Ryzaki]

jlb524 wrote...

FoxHound109 wrote...

This is another thing I wanted to point out: people think that the male/male romances are only to pander to the gay community, and specifically to gay gamers. But the truth is that there is a pretty large market for male/male romances for WOMEN in general: hence why a recent scientific study found that straight women are more likely to watch gay porn than straight porn, why there are thousands of stories slashing male characters together, why yaoi is so massive in Japan (and growing in the West), and why the romance novel has seen a resurgence of women writing gay romances for other women to read. Hell, Anders for DA II was written by a woman.

I can't fathom why a straight woman would want to see two hot dudes hook up.

Actually, now that you mention Anders' writer...both Anders and Fenris were written by males and both Merrill and Isabela by females...hmmmm....

Anders was *originally* written by a male (David Gaider) in Awakening. In DA2 his writer is Jennifer Hepler (a woman) who was responsible for the Broodmother segements (as well as another creepy part I forgot) in DAO. Gaider did write Fenris though.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 juillet 2011 - 03:34 .