25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Eternal Dust]

fweilun wrote...

Me no see big issue here.

I agree with shadowreflexion. Until Bioware makes any character state explicitly about their sexual orientation, all of the discussion as to whether an LI is straight/gay/bisexual/asexual/transgender is purely based on the player's interpretation. 

To illustrate this I will try give you an example. Let's say a person acts "very straight" and may have flirted with someone of the opposite sex. This can be interpretated in many ways. You could say that he has a "straight demeanour" so therefore he is straight. But then you could be wrong because a person's behaviour is not dictated by his/her sexual orientation. (A man who acts a little feminine is not necessarily gay. Likewise, a man who acts very manly is not necessarily straight.) Another person might interpret that this person is gay but "acts straight", because he/she is closeted.

But only until said person explicitly states whether he/she is gay or not, his/her sexual orientation is just pure guessing on your part. 

The only discussion here is whether Bioware can write the storyline in such a way where these different interpretations can be placated gratifyingly. 

Agreed.

Zulmoka531 wrote...

With all due respect, folks seem to be
making some far reaching assumptions about fictional characters. Ones
that are written and not capable of thinking the same way those of us in
the real world do.

If a write is to add such things to a
character, that works out, but to put such real world thought processes
onto things that are incapable of such..

Isn't that the whole point of ROLE PLAYING?

Modifié par octoberfire, 14 juin 2011 - 07:36 .

[rolson00]

Ryzaki wrote...

rolson00 wrote...
like she was scared because she was having these feeling for the 1st time? then shep deid and she never got a chance to tell femshep how sshe felt?

Ash? Scared to tell someone what she thinks? We thinking about the same Ashley?  

your not getting it she says poetery because shes not good with words and im having a bath now so laters and ne way from ur last post sounds like ur not fond of her ne way so why are you debating this?

Modifié par rolson00, 14 juin 2011 - 07:37 .

[Ryzaki]

rolson00 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

rolson00 wrote...
like she was scared because she was having these feeling for the 1st time? then shep deid and she never got a chance to tell femshep how sshe felt?

Ash? Scared to tell someone what she thinks? We thinking about the same Ashley?  

your not getting it she says poetery because shes not good with words and im having a bath now so laters

 

There's a difference between saying "I'm not good with words" and "I am scared to tell you this." 

Since when does someone have to be fond of a character to debate their merits? Plus I like Ash well enough. I don't like her ninjamancing me. There's a good chance I'll end up editing my saves to saving Ash anyway (if she gets more attention than Kaidan in ME3 and if her grandfather ends up playing a role as well). 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 juin 2011 - 07:39 .

[jlb524]

Ash's explanation as to why she's now open for an s/s relationship should only matter to those pursuing a possible s/s relationship with her....I'm not sure why it's of such a concern to those that never will and will stick to the o/s relationship.

[Darkhour]

jlb524 wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I do find it significant that she calls the woman by her name (Marana) but just refers to the man as "her boyfriend". Clearly Marana was the person Jack was most attached to, whether romantically or otherwise.

I think you see what you want to see. Jack turns "femshep" down on the basis that she doesn't swing that way. And that is not open to any interpretation.

So do others see what they want to see.

The 'girls club' line is open to interpretation, as it could and does mean 'not into women' to some and to others, it means 'I don't want to be best girl buds with you and go shoe shopping'.

Like I said. It's not open to interpretation. Jack is not gay. She made that crystal clear.

Liara looked alot happier in cutscenes with Shepard vs "femshep". I guess that means she favors sausage over tacos. Clearly, she is an asari that prefers males. Liara should be male only LI in ME3. Derp!

Make up as many fantasical excuses you want to deny facts. But everyone doesn't magically become gay just because a gay person wants in their pants. Is that all gay people thinks about. Screwing? Oh, my god. I'm gay and I must screw everything that moves. Characters should be characters. Have their own personalities and not be playthings for gays or normal people. Even Samara is awful. "I've know you for 5 hours Shepard and I'm already tempted to break my vows that I have upheld for 400+ years.  Maybe in ME3, Commander."

I have a better idea for romances. Zevran should be female only in the next DA game.  Kelly should be male only too. Samara, being more old school, should be female only. Isabela should be male only too. You guys would be ****ting bricks if they changed characters sexualities in ways that contradict their previous status.

I don't know why people can't just get their new gay romances and insist on butchering established characters who they know damn well aren't gay. Can a Bioare game have any creative integrity anymore? Does every facet of the game have to be a pro-gay political statement?

Modifié par Darkhour, 14 juin 2011 - 07:50 .

[Ryzaki]

jlb524 wrote...

Ash's explanation as to why she's now open for an s/s relationship should only matter to those pursuing a possible s/s relationship with her....I'm not sure why it's of such a concern to those that never will and will stick to the o/s relationship.

 

To me it's a concern if it's brought up like Tali where she has a crush on my Shepard that I did not want to know. If Shepard had initated the romance (and crush dialogue) with something obviously romantic I'd have been fine. But it was shoved in my face. I dislike that. I disliked it in ME1 and I disliked it in ME2 and I know I'll dislike it in ME3. If she and Kaidan only bring it up after I pick the obvious romance choice is obvious dialogue branch I won't care. On the other hand I do't want to have normal conversation and then be hit with a "uh...so commander?" No. It's not wanted (for anyone including Kaidan and Ash). 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 juin 2011 - 07:49 .

[jbblue05]

jlb524 wrote...

Ash's explanation as to why she's now open for an s/s relationship should only matter to those pursuing a possible s/s relationship with her....I'm not sure why it's of such a concern to those that never will and will stick to the o/s relationship.

Maybe because Ash is one of our favorite characters.

[bleetman]

Darkhour wrote...

I have a better idea for romances. Zevran should be female only in the next DA game.  Kelly should be male only too. Samara, being more old school, should be female only. Isabela should be male only too. You guys would be ****ting bricks if they changed characters sexualities in ways that contradict their previous status.

Perhaps, but all of those actually do contradict previously established character traits. The majority of Mass Effect interests are either viable for bi-sexual relationships or not based on interpretation. Whether or not a person considers, say, Tali becoming available to a femshep as contradictory is largely going to depend on how they saw her beforehand. I'll also repeat what I said a while ago: character change does not necessarily equate to butchery, if it's handled adequately and sensibly., something I can't really comment towards on account of ME3 not being out yet.

I'm personally not really sure about Jack. I can't say I gave her much thought in this respect.

Modifié par bleetman, 14 juin 2011 - 07:52 .

[FKA_Servo]

Darkhour wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Darkhour wrote...


I think you see what you want to see. Jack turns "femshep" down on the basis that she doesn't swing that way. And that is not open to any interpretation.

So do others see what they want to see.

The 'girls club' line is open to interpretation, as it could and does mean 'not into women' to some and to others, it means 'I don't want to be best girl buds with you and go shoe shopping'.

Like I said. It's not open to interpretation. Jack is not gay. She made that crystal clear.

Not a good example. This particular scene may suggest various things to various people, but I'm inclined to say that it's decidedly non-sexual given the context. Femshep wasn't coming on to Jack there - she was just trying to be friends. Jack wanted nothing to do with that.

Modifié par TommyServo, 14 juin 2011 - 07:55 .

[shepskisaac]

Darkhour wrote...
I don't know why people can't just get their new gay romances and insist on butchering established characters who they know damn well aren't gay.

You don't know what these characters exact sexual orientation is. Period. You can say how many times you want "they're straight! you know it!" and it still won't be a fact. They. Never. Declare. It. Themselves.

[Ryzaki]

TommyServo wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Darkhour wrote...


I think you see what you want to see. Jack turns "femshep" down on the basis that she doesn't swing that way. And that is not open to any interpretation.

So do others see what they want to see.

The 'girls club' line is open to interpretation, as it could and does mean 'not into women' to some and to others, it means 'I don't want to be best girl buds with you and go shoe shopping'.

Like I said. It's not open to interpretation. Jack is not gay. She made that crystal clear.

Not a good example. This particular scene may suggest various things to various people, but I'm inclined to say that it's decidedly non-sexual given the context. Femshep wasn't coming on to Jack there - she was just trying to be friends. Jack wanted nothing to do with that.

Does help that JAck has a similar Screw OFF thing to my dude Shep who wasn't interested in romancing her.

[Darkhour]

bleetman wrote...

Perhaps, but all of those actually do contradict previously established character traits.

Making Kaidan, Ashley, Miranda, Tali, Zaeed, Kasumi, Jacob or Thane gay contradicts previously established traits. That many gay people on one ship contradicts established reality. I really hope ME3 doesn't turn into a joke that DA2 was.

If you want to make excuses and fantasical conjecture to support everyone in existence being gay then my fantasical excuse for Liara being male only stands.

[Eternal Dust]

I like how people think their one interpretation of something is the only interpretation...

[Ryzaki]

Darkhour wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Perhaps, but all of those actually do contradict previously established character traits.

Making Kaidan, Ashley, Miranda, Tali, Zaeed, Kasumi, Jacob or Thane gay contradicts previously established traits. That many gay people on one ship contradicts established reality. I really hope ME3 doesn't turn into a joke that DA2 was.

If you want to make excuses and fantasical conjecture to support everyone in existence being gay then my fantasical excuse for Liara being male only stands.

What previously established traits does making Tali gay contradict? She's not even human! Where did she *EVER* indicate an interest in human males?  (outside of Shepard's romance). Oh wait...nowhere!

Hell she doesn't even show an interest in Quarian males! I guess her romancing Kal'Reeger if she didn't romance Shepard would be a RETCON! 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 juin 2011 - 08:00 .

[jbblue05]

IsaacShep wrote...

Darkhour wrote...
I don't know why people can't just get their new gay romances and insist on butchering established characters who they know damn well aren't gay.

You don't know what these characters exact sexual orientation is. Period. You can say how many times you want "they're straight! you know it!" and it still won't be a fact. They. Never. Declare. It. Themselves.

Bioware shouldn't make all characters gay just for them to be gay.

Making everybody gay is butchering the characters to appease a certain crowd.

Making some of the crew stragiht and some bicurious should be the middle ground for Bioware.

[Ryzaki]

jbblue05 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Darkhour wrote...
I don't know why people can't just get their new gay romances and insist on butchering established characters who they know damn well aren't gay.

You don't know what these characters exact sexual orientation is. Period. You can say how many times you want "they're straight! you know it!" and it still won't be a fact. They. Never. Declare. It. Themselves.

Bioware shouldn't make all characters gay just for them to be gay.

Making everybody gay is butchering the characters to appease a certain crowd.

Making some of the crew stragiht and some bicurious should be the middle ground for Bioware.

So the straight people get access to everyone while the gay people get access to half? Yeah that's real fair. If it should be anything some should be straight, some should be GAY and some should be bisexual.

[Darkhour]

IsaacShep wrote...

Darkhour wrote...
I don't know why people can't just get their new gay romances and insist on butchering established characters who they know damn well aren't gay.

You don't know what these characters exact sexual orientation is. Period. You can say how many times you want "they're straight! you know it!" and it still won't be a fact. They. Never. Declare. It. Themselves.

So if Zevran was female only in DA3 we'd just chalk it up to our own ignorance. Let's face, we didn't create him. Maybe he was just experimenting with guys and finally realized he doesn't like men. We don't know. Derp!
 
Could you please answer my question? Why can't you just be happy with new characters? Why do you insist on changing previously establish heterosexuals into homosexuals? 

[bleetman]

Darkhour wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Perhaps, but all of those actually do contradict previously established character traits.

Making Kaidan, Ashley, Miranda, Tali, Zaeed, Kasumi, Jacob or Thane gay contradicts previously established traits.

No, it doesn't. They never outright say that they aren't, nor is such made irrefutably clear. A person who engages in bi-sexual relationships sort of confirms said bi-sexuality. A person engaging in one heterosexual relationship doesn't exclude the possibility of anything else.

I'd be curious as to why they didn't speak up about it before, but that's not a topic that's being blithely ignored here. Like I said, if it's probably handled and explained, I wouldn't consider it contradictory bludgeoning.

Modifié par bleetman, 14 juin 2011 - 08:02 .

[fweilun]

Darkhour wrote...

Like I said. It's not open to interpretation. Jack is not gay. She made that crystal clear.

Liara looked alot happier in cutscenes with Shepard vs "femshep". I guess that means she favors sausage over tacos. Clearly, she is an asari that prefers males. Liara should be male only LI in ME3. Derp!

Make up as many fantasical excuses you want to deny facts. But everyone doesn't magically become gay just because a gay person wants in their pants. Is that all gay people thinks about. Screwing? Oh, my god. I'm gay and I must screw everything that moves. Characters should be characters. Have their own personalities and not be playthings for gays or normal people. Even Samara is awful. "I've know you for 5 hours Shepard and I'm already tempted to break my vows that I have upheld for 400+ years.  Maybe in ME3, Commander."

I have a better idea for romances. Zevran should be female only in the next DA game.  Kelly should be male only too. Samara, being more old school, should be female only. Isabela should be male only too. You guys would be ****ting bricks if they changed characters sexualities in ways that contradict their previous status.

I quote myself:

Until Bioware makes any character state explicitly about their sexual orientation, all of the discussion as to whether an LI is straight/gay/bisexual/asexual/transgender is purely based on the player's interpretation. 

To illustrate this I will try give you an example. Let's say a person acts "very straight" and may have flirted with someone of the opposite sex. This can be interpretated in many ways. You could say that he has a "straight demeanour" so therefore he is straight. But then you could be wrong because a person's behaviour is not dictated by his/her sexual orientation. (A man who acts a little feminine is not necessarily gay. Likewise, a man who acts very manly is not necessarily straight.) Another person might interpret that this person is gay but "acts straight", because he/she is closeted.

But only until said person explicitly states whether he/she is gay or not, his/her sexual orientation is just pure guessing on your part. 

The only discussion here is whether Bioware can write the storyline in such a way where these different interpretations can be placated gratifyingly.

So you interpret Liara as "preferring sausage over tacos". Let's say you play as femShep, you have the option of not pursuing Liara in that one playthrough. Again, the discussion here is whether Bioware can write the storyline in such a way where in that particular playthrough of yours, it is believable that Liara "prefers sausages over tacos" if you do not choose to romance Liara.

I think your anxiety stems from the fear of whether Bioware can actually make your interpretation of the characters believable if you do not choose to have s/s relationships with a particular LI. What Bioware is doing now is just giving the option for other players to have their interpretation of the characters to be actually played out. The option of s/s romances with any particular LI should not be what you're concerned about. What you should be concerned about is whether Bioware can properly integrate these options in such a way where your interpretation of the characters are unaffected. 

Modifié par fweilun, 14 juin 2011 - 08:02 .

[shepskisaac]

Darkhour wrote...
So if Zevran was female only in DA3 we'd
just chalk it up to our own ignorance. Let's face, we didn't create him.
Maybe he was just experimenting with guys and finally realized he
doesn't like men. We don't know. Derp!
 
Could you please answer
my question? Why can't you just be happy with new characters? Why do you
insist on changing previously establish heterosexuals into
homosexuals? 

L-O-L. Zervan is a male. He refers to himself as a male, he confirms he's a male. What does it have to do with anything LOL?

Darkhour wrote...
Making Kaidan, Ashley, Miranda, Tali, Zaeed, Kasumi, Jacob or Thane gay contradicts previously established traits. That many gay people on one ship contradicts established reality. I really hope ME3 doesn't turn into a joke that DA2 was.

If you want to make excuses and fantasical conjecture to support everyone in existence being gay then my fantasical excuse for Liara being male only stands.

Making them GAY contradicts facts. NOT making them BISEXUAL. Furthermore, do you really think there will be more than 1/2 old character available as s/s options? Hell to the no. They won't "make" everyone BI (bi as in bisexual as in attraction to both genders which does not contradict anything established in the previous games), the established relaity will be kept.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 14 juin 2011 - 08:06 .

[Eternal Dust]

jbblue05 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Darkhour wrote...
I don't know why people can't just get their new gay romances and insist on butchering established characters who they know damn well aren't gay.

You don't know what these characters exact sexual orientation is. Period. You can say how many times you want "they're straight! you know it!" and it still won't be a fact. They. Never. Declare. It. Themselves.

Bioware shouldn't make all characters gay just for them to be gay.

Making everybody gay is butchering the characters to appease a certain crowd.

Making some of the crew stragiht and some bicurious should be the middle ground for Bioware.

1. NO character has been gay in a BioWare game. They were either straight or bisexual.
2. Read #1
3. Bicurious? That's not even an orientation. I don't want any of the female LIs to suddenly take notes from Katy Perry. "I kissed a girl and I liked it"? No thanks. Also, we know next to nothing about s/s romances right now. Stop overreacting.

[jbblue05]

Ryzaki wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Darkhour wrote...
I don't know why people can't just get their new gay romances and insist on butchering established characters who they know damn well aren't gay.

You don't know what these characters exact sexual orientation is. Period. You can say how many times you want "they're straight! you know it!" and it still won't be a fact. They. Never. Declare. It. Themselves.

Bioware shouldn't make all characters gay just for them to be gay.

Making everybody gay is butchering the characters to appease a certain crowd.

Making some of the crew stragiht and some bicurious should be the middle ground for Bioware.

So the straight people get access to everyone while the gay people get access to half? Yeah that's real fair. If it should be anything some should be straight, some should be GAY and some should be bisexual.

If Biioware made some characters strictly gay they would suffer WAY more backlash than they are for not having S/S romacnes

Plus if everyone is Bicurious its not fair to the Straight and Strictly gay crowd because they have twice as many LI's

[FKA_Servo]

Darkhour wrote...

So if Zevran was female only in DA3 we'd just chalk it up to our own ignorance. Let's face, we didn't create him. Maybe he was just experimenting with guys and finally realized he doesn't like men. We don't know. Derp!
 
Could you please answer my question? Why can't you just be happy with new characters? Why do you insist on changing previously establish heterosexuals into homosexuals? 

Putting aside the fact that this complaint is as groundless as it was the first time it was made...

Why do you insist on caring when it doesn't affect your game?

Modifié par TommyServo, 14 juin 2011 - 08:09 .