25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Cartims]

It's my GAME, I'll make them all gay if I want, play your own way....

[Rinji the Bearded]

Darkhour wrote...

There is no way to explain how everyone in the god dmaned universe is gay.

I've tongue kissed a guy. I'm not gay and have no intention of pursuing a homosexual relationship. although, if a transexual looked enough like a woman amd I like her personality I would have no issue being in a relationship. There are plenty of people out there who have actually had sex with the same sex and are 100% heterosexual in their romantic relationships/psychology. So maybe Zevran was just unsure and trying something new for awhile. Have sex with 100's of women, but sex up a few men and he's gay for life?? No, it's obviously unclear what Zevran's sexuality is. Derp!

Would you be pissed if Bioware decided to rewrite his character and make him into something he's not to appease fundamentalist Christians?

This argument would hold water if any of the ME LIs specifically stated their sexual preference, as Zevran himself did.  However, they do not.  A lack of content provided for one gender isn't sufficient enough evidence unless the character himself/herself states "I am not interested in people of the same gender."

Like it or not, that's how it works.  See: Anders.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 14 juin 2011 - 08:44 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

Dr.MOHCTP wrote...

diskoh wrote...

To me, the most obvious bisexual squaddie to me isn't really Jack, but Tali.

All the signs of the crush are still there with femShep. All the hints and the overt flirting. The only difference is that when Tali says she'd want to link suits with Shepard, when femShep starts flirting back she gets flustered and drops it. "Tali, are you blushing?!" That doesn't mean she's not interested, just that she was hella embarrassed.

Also, it was probably just overlooked, but as we're all aware if you're in a femShep playthrough in LotSB, Tali's dossier says she looked up the same stuff about human mating and courtship.

it's a fever , and what she wish to link suits with femShep is a sign of trust, she talk about intimacy only with mShep, in case with femShep she tell what she will be a honored to link suits.
in my opinion:
femShep "you by best friend":blush:
mShep "you my best friend, but i love you":wub:
dossier in LotSB appear just after her LM, and a bit confusing, i think it's just a laziness to write something different:bandit:
and even Jack is a bi, she totaly not interested in femShep
my point about S/S Li is simple, keep already exist chars as they are, make S/S for new chars, and make a good finishing of existing relationships.

Exactly I think Tali spoke with fshep as linking suits in a bff sort of way.

Rann says the same thing on the flotilla that she linked suits with Tali's mom.

Now people will want to take this sentence in two ways also:

the one response: She linked suits with Tali's mom to show how deep their friendship was and it was done in a bff type of way showing absolute trust.

Or the other way: She linked suits with Tali's mom to have an affair with her behind her husband's back and he eventually finds out about it and that's why he's so harsh with Tali because her mom didn't love him but Rann instead.

Now considering the subject of linking suits was brought up in front of Tali, Shep, and a third squadmate which version do you think she was talking about in front of Tali? Was she saying I was your mom's bff or I was your mom's lover?

I think Rann ment it as bff and Tali means it towards fshep as bff too and most Quarians who link suits that are of same sex do so in friendliness and trust only. It's only when opposite sesxed parties link suits is it counted as romance or a willingness for intamancy. It does the Quarian species no good to be bi.

[Siansonea]

shadowreflexion wrote...

I have never seen this much passion. Lol But I had another thought to tide you over. Again, bear in mind this is an observation, nothing more. I read through the thread in its entirety and I just have to add a little into the Kaiden character. Please see what I write as just something written.

On the SS romance spectrum, should one assume that Kaiden can be a candidate for that since he shows a certain degree of uncomfort when you speak to him? Or even if he speaks softly does that an any way emasculate his character?

I hope that this topic of discussion can go on without running the risk of getting locked due to some crass remarks that I read because it clearly is a decent topic. However, on the subject of SS anyway, I think that's why the Asari are there and why they are really monogendered. I don't know.
But having options such as SS, Bi, or just all out homosexual should have been included from day one don't you think? It shouldn't come down to appealing to a group. I can understand if you didn't romance anyone through ME 1 and ME 2 then in ME 3, you have free reign if that makes sense. But since some have romanced characters and found that some didn't respond to the advances, should that be changed? Like we all know that Samara said no in ME 2 and if you tried to go forward, she left the room. In ME 3, should her self control be compromised because we want to romance her anyway?

Edit: I still stand beside the agree to disagree. lol

When referring to masculinity and femininity, we are actually discussing a person's gender identity. This is actually a spectrum, not a dichotomy, and it is not directly related to sexuality. Gender identity is one's own sense of self as male, female, or something in between, or even as someone devoid of overt gender. Sexuality is simply one's preference for a certain type of sex partner. If we are discussing Kaidan's suitability as a same-sex LI, his gender performance, i.e., his "masculinity", is simply not a factor. 

With regards to existing characters as same-sex LIs, it's a subject most people have an opinion on one way or the other. I personally am not too concerned about it. If BioWare goes that route, I have faith that they'll do it well enough, but if they choose to implement new characters instead, I have faith they'll do it justice. We don't really know what they'll do at this point. But we should all be mindful that neither preference is "wrong". We're all just happy that s/s is being implemented, right? And this is all just a friendly discussion about implementation possibilities, right? 

[jlb524]

jbblue05 wrote...

DA2 did not have an equal amount of LI's  4 for bisexuals 2 for straight and Gays.

:LI's will never be equal in a Bioware game unless characters are strictly gay and straight

See...bisexual PCs will always have more (or equal) options in spite of what they sexuality of the NPCs are.

If you have 1 gay female/1 straight male/1 bisexual male/1 bisexual female option for FemShep, a lesbian PC will have 2 options, a straight PC will have 2 options, and the bisexual will have 4 options.  That's what happens when you're more open

Bisexuals can only be 'equal' with one other in cases like; when FemShep would have 2 lesbian options and no heterosexual options.

Then, a lesbian PC gets 2 options, a bisexual gets 2 options, but the straight PC gets none!  Oh..completely denying one group isn't cool.

jbblue05 wrote...
Plus Majority rules most people that play Bioware's games are straight males

In that case, they should go back to having more options for heterosexual males over heterosexual females...like they used to.

[MACharlie1]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

Dr.MOHCTP wrote...

diskoh wrote...

To me, the most obvious bisexual squaddie to me isn't really Jack, but Tali.

All the signs of the crush are still there with femShep. All the hints and the overt flirting. The only difference is that when Tali says she'd want to link suits with Shepard, when femShep starts flirting back she gets flustered and drops it. "Tali, are you blushing?!" That doesn't mean she's not interested, just that she was hella embarrassed.

Also, it was probably just overlooked, but as we're all aware if you're in a femShep playthrough in LotSB, Tali's dossier says she looked up the same stuff about human mating and courtship.

it's a fever , and what she wish to link suits with femShep is a sign of trust, she talk about intimacy only with mShep, in case with femShep she tell what she will be a honored to link suits.
in my opinion:
femShep "you by best friend":blush:
mShep "you my best friend, but i love you":wub:
dossier in LotSB appear just after her LM, and a bit confusing, i think it's just a laziness to write something different:bandit:
and even Jack is a bi, she totaly not interested in femShep
my point about S/S Li is simple, keep already exist chars as they are, make S/S for new chars, and make a good finishing of existing relationships.

Exactly I think Tali spoke with fshep as linking suits in a bff sort of way.

Rann says the same thing on the flotilla that she linked suits with Tali's mom.

Now people will want to take this sentence in two ways also:

the one response: She linked suits with Tali's mom to show how deep their friendship was and it was done in a bff type of way showing absolute trust.

Or the other way: She linked suits with Tali's mom to have an affair with her behind her husband's back and he eventually finds out about it and that's why he's so harsh with Tali because her mom didn't love him but Rann instead.

Now considering the subject of linking suits was brought up in front of Tali, Shep, and a third squadmate which version do you think she was talking about in front of Tali? Was she saying I was your mom's bff or I was your mom's lover?

I think Rann ment it as bff and Tali means it towards fshep as bff too and most Quarians who link suits that are of same sex do so in friendliness and trust only. It's only when opposite sesxed parties link suits is it counted as romance or a willingness for intamancy. It does the Quarian species no good to be bi.

I think it's the other way around since Quarians are limited to one child per couple - at least at this point. This would be an interesting subject for Tali to cover though. Would a couple NOT reproducing be looked upon as a stigma? I mean, more Quarians means more strain on resources...but also a couple not having a child means one less pilgramage. 

[Siansonea]

CaptainIsabela wrote...

Cartims wrote...

It's my GAME, I'll make them all gay if I want, play your own way....

I would love BW to just make everyone gay and surprise everyone. Ooh..the uproar!!! LMAO

I know you're kidding darlin',  but I wouldn't like this. I have straight Shepards as well as gay Shepards. 

[Cartims]

CaptainIsabela wrote...

Cartims wrote...

It's my GAME, I'll make them all gay if I want, play your own way....

I would love BW to just make everyone gay and surprise everyone. Ooh..the uproar!!! LMAO

Hahaha, I would love to see this also.....

[LordJeyl]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

octoberfire wrote...

1. NO character has been gay in a BioWare game. They were either straight or bisexual.

(Well... there's Juhani... though her sexuality technically still debatable... And though I wouldn't exactly chalk her up as huge "victory" for homosexual representation in games, since her implementation was bugged, I still hate to discount her.)

Are you kidding? It was a HUGE victory! As Obi-Wan put it, taking a first step in a larger world. I mean, think about it. A lesbian character in a STAR WARS game. STAR WARS! A franchise that's more straight than Texas' landscape. And please, let's debate it, because the evidence is all over the place.

1. Even though she struck her master, she does admit that deep down that she loved her. Could be sisterly love, but that's not the case when we cut to...
2. Belaya. She speaks quite fondly of Juhani, even calling her a "dear companion for many years. We spent nights together alone under the stars." Wow. Wait. NO! There's nothing gay about this. She loves men to!
3. Dak Vesser. Confessed his undying love for Juhani, but she turned him down. And this was at a time when both of them were having difficulties with their place among the Jedi, so it wasn't because she believed in "no attachments". 
4. SHE ONLY CONFESSES HER AFFECTION TO FEMALE REVAN!  WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED??

Modifié par LordJeyl, 14 juin 2011 - 08:51 .

[ADLegend21]

Cartims wrote...

It's my GAME, I'll make them all gay if I want, play your own way....

Here here!

[jbblue05]

Ryzaki wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...
Are you inferring that I'm anti s/s romance?

I want Bioware to create characters the way they INTENDED for them to be.  At the rate Bioware is going all you have to do is complain and they will keep on changing characters to appease a certain crowd.  What is their is a HUGE anti s/s romance movement from a private interest group . Does Bioware eliiminate all s/s romancesthen? What if the Gay crowd demands a few characters be gay only?  Does Bioware give in?

Romances in DA2 were in favor of the Gay crowd that complained and wanted more options.

No but you do seem to think ra forbid the s/s people have the same amount of options. 

And if they intend certain characters to be gay? You just said there shouldn't be more gay options than bi ones. What huge anti s/s romance movement? I saw one group that hadn't even went past 200 members. Or has that changed? So it's okay to demand a character be straight only but not the reverse? 

Romances in DA2 were EQUAL they weren't in favor of any group (save those who don't care what gender they romanced in which case DAO had the same disparity). Ra forbid! Equal options! OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Really? 

You mised the entire point of my post.

I played DAO, ME1, ME2, and Jade Empire and I believe that's how Bioware INTENDED their characters to be.
DA2 was made to appease disgruntled gay fans and ME3 offers s/s romance because the gay crowd has beeen demanding it. 

I'm no fan of M/M romance but if Femshep can les out with Kelly, Liara, and Morinth/Samara Bioware shouldn't lie to us and say their are no gay relatiionships.

.

[Darkhour]

fweilun wrote...
I think your anxiety stems from the fear of whether Bioware can actually make your interpretation of the characters believable if you do not choose to have s/s relationships with a particular LI. What Bioware is doing now is just giving the option for other players to have their interpretation of the characters to be actually played out. The option of s/s romances with any particular LI should not be what you're concerned about. What you should be concerned about is whether Bioware can properly integrate these options in such a way where your interpretation of the characters are unaffected. 

If a character is grey and "interpretable" then they are weak shallow characters. 

I don't recall Ashley saying she didn't have biotics... Ashley is now a biotic in ME3. 

I don't recall Wrex saying he wasn't into humans... Wrex romance for ME3!!!

Anderson never says he doesn't think Udina is a hot piece of ass... Anderson Udina secret love revealed in ME3!!!

We can butcher everything with the loigc I've seen in this thread. Nothing is sacred.

[Eternal Dust]

LordJeyl wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...

octoberfire wrote...

1. NO character has been gay in a BioWare game. They were either straight or bisexual.

(Well... there's Juhani... though her sexuality technically still debatable... And though I wouldn't exactly chalk her up as huge "victory" for homosexual representation in games, since her implementation was bugged, I still hate to discount her.)

Are you kidding? It was a HUGE victory! As Obi-Wan put it, taking a first step in a larger world. I mean, think about it. A lesbian character in a STAR WARS game. STAR WARS! A franchise that's more straight than Texas' landscape. And please, let's debate it, because the evidence is all over the place.

1. Even though she struck her master, she does admit that deep down that she loved her. Could be sisterly love, but that's not the case when we cut to...
2. Belaya. She speaks quite fondly of Juhani, even calling her a "dear companion for many years. We spent nights together alone under the stars." Wow. Wait. NO! There's nothing gay about this. She loves men to!
3. Dak Vesser. Confessed his undying love for Juhani, but she turned him down. And this was at a time when both of them were having difficulties with their place among the Jedi, so it wasn't because she believed in "no attachments". 
4. SHE ONLY CONFESSES HER AFFECTION TO FEMALE REVAN!  WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED??

It's a pity I missed her romance. They hid it/bugged it pretty well

[Darkhour]

IsaacShep wrote...

Darkhour wrote...
So if Zevran was female only in DA3 we'd
just chalk it up to our own ignorance. Let's face, we didn't create him.
Maybe he was just experimenting with guys and finally realized he
doesn't like men. We don't know. Derp!
 
Could you please answer
my question? Why can't you just be happy with new characters? Why do you
insist on changing previously establish heterosexuals into
homosexuals? 

L-O-L. Zervan is a male. He refers to himself as a male, he confirms he's a male. What does it have to do with anything LOL?

learn2read.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Darkhour wrote...

If a character is grey and "interpretable" then they are weak shallow characters. 

I don't recall Ashley saying she didn't have biotics... Ashley is now a biotic in ME3. 

I don't recall Wrex saying he wasn't into humans... Wrex romance for ME3!!!

Anderson never says he doesn't think Udina is a hot piece of ass... Anderson Udina secret love revealed in ME3!!!

We can butcher everything with the loigc I've seen in this thread. Nothing is sacred.

1) Ashley being a biotic has nothing to do with her sexuality.   She is not a biotic -- this is a fact.  She is into men -- this is a fact.  However, unless implicitly stated, her being strictly straight is opinion until proven fact.
2) Wrex romance is something the devs could consider if they thought that it was worthwhile content.
3) You never know what they'll do with Anderson, so... once again, opinion vs fact.

[Ryzaki]

jbblue05 wrote...
You mised the entire point of my post.

I played DAO, ME1, ME2, and Jade Empire and I believe that's how Bioware INTENDED their characters to be.
DA2 was made to appease disgruntled gay fans and ME3 offers s/s romance because the gay crowd has beeen demanding it. 

I'm no fan of M/M romance but if Femshep can les out with Kelly, Liara, and Morinth/Samara Bioware shouldn't lie to us and say their are no gay relatiionships.

.

So you believe Leliana was originally gay and turned bisexual due to appeasement? 

And DA2 was made due to appeasement?  Riight we're not gonna agree. BW made their characters the way they wanted them. If some part of that is fanservice it's not more so than making Garrus and Tali romances to begin with (or making the Asari race as a whole).

[diskoh]

I haven't played ME1 since before ME2 came out, so can someone refresh my memory?

After femShep starts romancing Liara, isn't there a scene in which Ashley brings it up to Shepard, and Shepard asks if Ashley has a problem because she's female? Does anyone remember (and a link would be great) Ashley's response?

[KawaiiKatie]

LordJeyl wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...

octoberfire wrote...

1. NO character has been gay in a BioWare game. They were either straight or bisexual.

(Well... there's Juhani... though her sexuality technically still debatable... And though I wouldn't exactly chalk her up as huge "victory" for homosexual representation in games, since her implementation was bugged, I still hate to discount her.)

Are you kidding? It was a HUGE victory! As Obi-Wan put it, taking a first step in a larger world. I mean, think about it. A lesbian character in a STAR WARS game. STAR WARS! A franchise that's more straight than Texas' landscape. And please, let's debate it, because the evidence is all over the place.

Oh, I only meant that her "victory" was pretty tainted by the initial bugs in her programming that made her available to both male and female Revan. In fact, many people still insist that she is bisexual, if only because her profile at StarWars.com still lists her a bisexual.

So, to me, a lesbian character who's sexuality is still suspect doesn't seem like a huge victory to me... But I'll take it! I love Juhani (voiced by Courtnay Taylor, Jack's VA, don'tcha know!) and I definitely identify her as a lesbian, but I'd like to see a homosexual character in ME3 that is, without a doubt, homosexual. If every returning character remains restricted to heterosexual relationships (except for the Asari, obviously) but Bioware gives us two new characters, a male and female, that are only interested in homosexual relationships? Oh man, I will be over the moon with happiness.

[Darkhour]

octoberfire wrote...

1. NO character has been gay in a BioWare game. They were either straight or bisexual.
2. Read #1
3. Bicurious? That's not even an orientation. I don't want any of the female LIs to suddenly take notes from Katy Perry. "I kissed a girl and I liked it"? No thanks. Also, we know next to nothing about s/s romances right now. Stop overreacting.

1. You like the same sex? Your gay. 

2. "Bisexual" is a gay person who also has sex with the opposite sex. All bisexuals are gay, but not all gays are bisexuals.

3. We are not discussing what's in the actual game. We are discussing each other's ideals on s/s implimentation. It's a hypothetical discussion at this point.  

[Siansonea]

Everyone, discussing BioWare's intent is not the purpose of this thread. Please refocus the discussion to be more in keeping with this thread's purpose, to discuss ideas for implementation of s/s content. Whether any of our ideas are in keeping with BioWare's intent is for them to decide, not us.

[Darkhour]

TommyServo wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

So if Zevran was female only in DA3 we'd just chalk it up to our own ignorance. Let's face, we didn't create him. Maybe he was just experimenting with guys and finally realized he doesn't like men. We don't know. Derp!
 
Could you please answer my question? Why can't you just be happy with new characters? Why do you insist on changing previously establish heterosexuals into homosexuals? 

Putting aside the fact that this complaint is as groundless as it was the first time it was made...

Why do you insist on caring when it doesn't affect your game?

Biowars track record indicates it will effect my game.

[jlb524]

diskoh wrote...

After femShep starts romancing Liara, isn't there a scene in which Ashley brings it up to Shepard, and Shepard asks if Ashley has a problem because she's female? Does anyone remember (and a link would be great) Ashley's response?

I really don't remember this ever occuring. 

[Cartims]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ, same sh!t different day!!!! Haters gonna haters, stoopid is just stoopid.