25715 réponses à ce sujet

[dunfall14]

@Ohpus - I have no desire to troll on this thread, as I'm useless in arguments, and if anyone make me sad then they have wrecked my experience for all types of social network sites, as this is the my first time on any social network site. ( I,m in my 20s, and spends alot of my time outdoor.)

[Abispa]

@ Jimmy Fury -- I agree with SpEcIaLRyAn a bit on the need for some "rational" explanation of a returning character's availability for s/s romance. For example, Kaidan and Ashley basically demanded to be made LIs in ME for o/s Shepard, but it would seem odd and artificial if they suddenly turned into Zevran or Isabela.

Part of the explanation be the fact that homosexuality in ME is STILL considered "not normal." Aria offers Shepard a o/s servant, Nef thinks she is a "freak," and Kelly made a point to mention that she doesn't think "race or GENDER" should deter intimacy, and that was as part of a response to Shepard being surprised that she liked aliens. It was as if she was saying, "That right, Shepard! I'm so open minded that I'll not only have sex with another species, but I'll even sex up ANOTHER WOMAN!"

[demonic_cookie]

@Ohpus - I have no desire to troll on this thread, as I'm useless in arguments, and if anyone make me sad then they have wrecked my experience for all types of social network sites, as this is the my first time on any social network site. ( I,m in my 20s, and spends alot of my time outdoor.)

Oooh, welcome newbie We now have a secret weapon in discussions, awesome. Any time someone questions the s/s romances we will push you to the front, point and shake our heads pointedly. "See, you're upsetting dunfal14! You're ruining his experience on social networking sites! Stop protesting s/s romance!"

I keed
Welcome, don't be shy, we will protect you from trolls

[TheMarshal]

Abispa wrote...

@ Jimmy Fury -- I agree with SpEcIaLRyAn a bit on the need for some "rational" explanation of a returning character's availability for s/s romance. For example, Kaidan and Ashley basically demanded to be made LIs in ME for o/s Shepard, but it would seem odd and artificial if they suddenly turned into Zevran or Isabela.

I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch to say Ashley or Kaidan developed feelings for a s/s Shepard over the course of the two games.  Unless you meant Zevran or Isabela in terms of "sleeping with anything that moves"?

[Jimmy Fury]

Abispa wrote...

@ Jimmy Fury -- I agree with SpEcIaLRyAn a bit on the need for some "rational" explanation of a returning character's availability for s/s romance. For example, Kaidan and Ashley basically demanded to be made LIs in ME for o/s Shepard, but it would seem odd and artificial if they suddenly turned into Zevran or Isabela.

Part of the explanation be the fact that homosexuality in ME is STILL considered "not normal." Aria offers Shepard a o/s servant, Nef thinks she is a "freak," and Kelly made a point to mention that she doesn't think "race or GENDER" should deter intimacy, and that was as part of a response to Shepard being surprised that she liked aliens. It was as if she was saying, "That right, Shepard! I'm so open minded that I'll not only have sex with another species, but I'll even sex up ANOTHER WOMAN!"

Wow.

I wasn't aware that making them s/s romances would require them to suddenly be turbosl*ts that try to bang everything in sight

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 27 juillet 2011 - 09:15 .

[Abispa]

TheMarshal wrote...

Abispa wrote...

@ Jimmy Fury -- I agree with SpEcIaLRyAn a bit on the need for some "rational" explanation of a returning character's availability for s/s romance. For example, Kaidan and Ashley basically demanded to be made LIs in ME for o/s Shepard, but it would seem odd and artificial if they suddenly turned into Zevran or Isabela.

I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch to say Ashley or Kaidan developed feelings for a s/s Shepard over the course of the two games.  Unless you meant Zevran or Isabela in terms of "sleeping with anything that moves"?

No, I was using hyperbole. I'm talking about my female Shepard telling Ashley she did a good job and then the camera does a close up of her face (like ME1) and shows an expression like she got her favorite toy for Christmas. Then, later in the game, she starts questioning my Shepard about why she's spending so much time with Garrus. Finally, in a conversation late in the game, I have to pick a cruel dialog option to shut down her love machine.

In oher words, I expect it to be different than the o/s flirtations in the first game, AND I'd like it to be more subtle than a jackhammer.

[Abispa]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Abispa wrote...

@ Jimmy Fury -- I agree with SpEcIaLRyAn a bit on the need for some "rational" explanation of a returning character's availability for s/s romance. For example, Kaidan and Ashley basically demanded to be made LIs in ME for o/s Shepard, but it would seem odd and artificial if they suddenly turned into Zevran or Isabela.

Part of the explanation be the fact that homosexuality in ME is STILL considered "not normal." Aria offers Shepard a o/s servant, Nef thinks she is a "freak," and Kelly made a point to mention that she doesn't think "race or GENDER" should deter intimacy, and that was as part of a response to Shepard being surprised that she liked aliens. It was as if she was saying, "That right, Shepard! I'm so open minded that I'll not only have sex with another species, but I'll even sex up ANOTHER WOMAN!"

Wow.

I wasn't aware that making them s/s romances would require them to suddenly be turbosl*ts that try to bang everything in sight

I'm not talking about they being promiscous. In ME1 Ashely was talking about boys, developing a crush on Kaidan if Shepard was a woman, and overtly hitting on male Shepard. At no time did I think she was a ****. Forget their sexual olympics, I was talking about Zevran and Isabela both saying that they found s/s attractive. I didn't think that made them ****ty. If anything could earn them that slur, and I still wouldn't use it, it would be their self-proclaimed epic number of casual lovers, not their sexual persuasion.

I'm just saying that Ashley and Kaidan both expressed their attractions to the o/s, but have never done so for s/s. I have NEVER argued that should keep them from being s/s, only that it would be odd if suddenly Kaidan or Ashley started acting like they did around o/s in ME1. Maybe Shepard's absense did make their heart grow fonder, a resonable explanation, and one I'd appreciate hearing in ME3.

[TheMarshal]

Abispa wrote...

No, I was using hyperbole. I'm talking about my female Shepard telling Ashley she did a good job and then the camera does a close up of her face (like ME1) and shows an expression like she got her favorite toy for Christmas. Then, later in the game, she starts questioning my Shepard about why she's spending so much time with Garrus. Finally, in a conversation late in the game, I have to pick a cruel dialog option to shut down her love machine.

In oher words, I expect it to be different than the o/s flirtations in the first game, AND I'd like it to be more subtle than a jackhammer.

I don't know what I'm hoping for, exactly.  I want the romances to feel different if you're starting them in the third game than they would have if they had been started in the first or second games.  I want them to acknowledge that there's a history between the characters.  I would love if the other NPC's acknowledged the romance.  Hell, I would love it if there was more jealousy, like even if you weren't actively romancing Tali, she could get jealous of someone else that you were romancing.

[shepskisaac]

OK girls. If the Viligante girl turns out to be the new s/s option for FemShep AND her face is scanned/based on the face of her VA (Emily Hopkins), would you be happy?


Looks like beautiful classy woman to me, but then, I ain't into girls so I don't know ;P

[Abispa]

TheMarshal wrote...

I don't know what I'm hoping for, exactly.  I want the romances to feel different if you're starting them in the third game than they would have if they had been started in the first or second games.  I want them to acknowledge that there's a history between the characters.  I would love if the other NPC's acknowledged the romance.  Hell, I would love it if there was more jealousy, like even if you weren't actively romancing Tali, she could get jealous of someone else that you were romancing.

I'm in the same boat. Still, I recognize that as a game that as primarily about killing things in loud and exciting ways, ME3 will only have so much time and so many resources to devote to what amounts to a choice to personalize and accessorize a Shepard.

[Siansonea]

dunfall14 wrote...

@Ohpus - I have no desire to troll on this thread, as I'm useless in arguments, and if anyone make me sad then they have wrecked my experience for all types of social network sites, as this is the my first time on any social network site. ( I,m in my 20s, and spends alot of my time outdoor.)

I hope you always feel welcome and respected here, if you ever feel otherwise, PM me, I don't take kindly to people behaving badly toward one another in this thread. 

[dunfall14]

@Jimmy Fury and TheMarshal - People do start to get feelings for each other in desperate times and in life or dead situations but are afraid to tell tell each other, but it could be more to do with respect, also Ashley and Kaidan were both available as s/s for Shepard in mass effect 1, but were cut and from the finished produced. So to me they seem the most likely as well as someone else to be s/s romace for Shepard.

It,s getting late so mine off to bed.

[misi-chan]

Hi!

I'm not new to the forums, but I usually prefer to lurk in the shadows. However, I love to read this thread, and every discussion is awesome, from asses to the last posts about Asari (they're superb. I myself have never felt so comfortable around this race, mainly because of Liara - a character I started to respect after LotSB), and I thought a bit more of support wouldn't hurt anyone

As it seems it's somehow "important", I'll say I'm a straight female, and one of my machoSheps is a gay man (and a very macho bro. The most macho of my manSheps, that's it). And during both games, the poor guy has been dealing with a lot of fangirls sitting on his lap, full of feelings and lust. Then he kindly tried to avoid the romantic implications = will never have a female friend.
So while I'm SO glad that Bioware finally decided to add m/m romance to ME3, I'm also pretty excited about that thing they said about improving friendship : )

Personally, and while I'd love to romance Kaidan and Vega as a male Shepard, I have to say that I prefer Joker and Garrus. Joker because, well, my Shep has been in love with him since they met, and Garrus... I think Garrus is a very malleable character, and actually would feel more attracted to a male human than a female (males are more Turian-like, aren't they? I'm pretty sure Garrus doesn't know what to do with a pair of boobs. And I do love femShep as much as I love manShep, and there's nothing I love more in Mass Effect than Garrus and his romance plot). I know, I'm dreaming a bit high about Garrus, I don't think he'll be a s/s LI. But it would be awesome. But we all know the Male Straight Gamer <_< Come on, guys! My femSheps and I are alive and totally immersed in the ME universe even after half of the female NPC's tried to get into our pants!  Asari consort? No big deal. Liara being SO in love with every femShep forever? We can live with it - though we would prefer her to stay with Feron -. Shiala wants to have some time with us? Okay then, we feel flattered. Flirting with Morinth? It was funny. Kelly loves everybody in the Universe? Good for her! Better than hating!

I... don't really know what I wanted to say, but you'll have to forgive me since it's a bit difficult for me to write in English Just wanted to show my support. To gayShep, to gay players, and of course to straight players who like to try everything this awesome game has to offer!

And then have a couple of sketches I posted a while ago on my dA accounts, featuring my gayShep, K : )

[frostajulie]

IsaacShep wrote...

OK girls. If the Viligante girl turns out to be the new s/s option for FemShep AND her face is scanned/based on the face of her VA (Emily Hopkins), would you be happy?


Looks like beautiful classy woman to me, but then, I ain't into girls so I don't know ;P

I will be devastated because there is only one girl I want with my femsheps... besides Ashley and that is Jack.  I love Jack sooooo much, I really feel like her talk time with a fem shep was gimped-  and she even alluded to the fact that she had been with a woman.

I was so excited to get to romance her and was heartbroken when I couldn't,  I had to literally play a male character just to get to romance her and I really dislike Meer's voice acting in this role, other people love him and I am cool with that but I prefer fem shep and I want her to be able to romance Jack. 

If I can;t romance her in ME3 I will be forced to possibly mess up my game in an effort to mod it and I am so computer illiterate that I am bound to screw it up mucking around with 3rd party modifications.  I mean I would be fine with the new character being a love interest but I really want to be able to romance Jack with my femsheps.

Modifié par frostajulie, 27 juillet 2011 - 09:59 .

[Abispa]

@ IsaacShep -- As a straight male, I can't get enough brunettes...

Oops..

Um, not that I need to find another brunette since I already have the perfect brunette.

Ms. Hopkins does look like a worthy model, but I'm not sure about her voice since I've never heard it and have NO idea what's up with the Vigilante as a character. For some reason her black outfit bothers me. Not sure why.

I wonder if Bioware will make Hopkins' character blonde to make up for what they did to Miranda, who was SUPPOSED to be blonde to begin with.

[Ryzaki]

@misi-chan: Your Mr. Shepard comic killed me. XD

[Siansonea]

 @misi-chan: I lol'd at that comic.  And I think the Shepard/Alenko/Moreau pic works for Sheps of any stripe. 

[misi-chan]

Siansonea II wrote...

 @misi-chan: I lol'd at that comic.  And I think the Shepard/Alenko/Moreau pic works for Sheps of any stripe. 

Thanks!
And it was intended, of course. In fact, my gayShep would better have a beer with a bunch of friends than whine about his lack of luck in love

Modifié par misi-chan, 27 juillet 2011 - 10:07 .

[Abispa]

@ misi-chan -- Good comic, excellent group pic, and respect for being a fellow Carver fan.

[bleetman]

IsaacShep wrote...

OK girls. If the Viligante girl turns out to be the new s/s option for FemShep AND her face is scanned/based on the face of her VA (Emily Hopkins), would you be happy?

Not that I'm female and all that, but good grief yes.

[misi-chan]

Abispa wrote...

@ misi-chan -- Good comic, excellent group pic, and respect for being a fellow Carver fan.

Thank you!
And, hah, it's refreshing to know another Carver fan. He's my favorite character in a game that mostly disappointed me... : )

[Augoeides]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...
Like I said I don't mind if the explain why they are that way story wise. If its something as stupid as that they just make them all bisexual for the sake of pleasing everybody then that is lazy. If they make it make sense within story bounds rather than just add it in randomly sort of like Anders than it will work for me. All in all I just don't want them to be lazy about explaining it that way I can express no interest in a LI that may be homosexual.

You might have to explain what's lazy about the implementation exactly instead of just saying it was lazy.
Because honestly putting in more romances for more players that required more dialogue to be written and recorded, more dialogue options to be coded and included in the game's conversation system, more cut scenes, more party banter, and more varied reacitons from NPCs... It's hard to understand how that can be considered lazy.

Then of course there's the bit i really don't understand which is:
1: Anders' sexuality was explained in the story so why is he the example of it being added randomly? If you talk to him about Karl he actually does explain that Circle mages have a tendency to be... adventurous in their sexuality due to the sheltered life they're forced to lead. They take whatever comfort they can get from whomever they can get it from.
2: Why does a character's sexuality even need to be explained? Unless there's some relevance to the plot (as in Anders' case) then what does it matter?

I think it's about the questions: 'why not before' and 'why now?'

Obviously we can say, well Kaidan couldn't/didn't romance MShep in ME1 because that was cut content, but that would be applying a meta-game perspective to an in-game reality which just doesn't work. So if Kaidan does appear as a Bi LI in ME3, there is the question that needs to be answered by Kaidan if the player chooses to engage Kaidan as an LI 'why not and why not before?' and if the answer is anything along the lines of: "You didn't ask" I would be miffed, because that, to me, would be a sucker punch from the devs because the character is calling out our Shep on not approaching him in that manner when the option wasn't available.

On the note of Anders, he had some slightly suggestive dialogue in Awakening to some male characters, nothing compared to all his heterosexual related comments but they were there and the implications seemed quite clear based on the words and tonality of the spoken line. 

[ElitePinecone]

Assuming she actually exists, I think it's fairly likely that Vigilante will be a f/f romance option in ME3.

If Bioware says Liara doesn't count, and apart from the possibility of Ash, the f/f would need to fall to new characters (just like the m'm, I suppose...).

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...
Like I said I don't mind if the explain why they are that way story wise. If its something as stupid as that they just make them all bisexual for the sake of pleasing everybody then that is lazy. If they make it make sense within story bounds rather than just add it in randomly sort of like Anders than it will work for me. All in all I just don't want them to be lazy about explaining it that way I can express no interest in a LI that may be homosexual.

You might have to explain what's lazy about the implementation exactly instead of just saying it was lazy.
Because honestly putting in more romances for more players that required more dialogue to be written and recorded, more dialogue options to be coded and included in the game's conversation system, more cut scenes, more party banter, and more varied reacitons from NPCs... It's hard to understand how that can be considered lazy.

Then of course there's the bit i really don't understand which is:
1: Anders' sexuality was explained in the story so why is he the example of it being added randomly? If you talk to him about Karl he actually does explain that Circle mages have a tendency to be... adventurous in their sexuality due to the sheltered life they're forced to lead. They take whatever comfort they can get from whomever they can get it from.
2: Why does a character's sexuality even need to be explained? Unless there's some relevance to the plot (as in Anders' case) then what does it matter?

For Anders what I mean is in Awakening there was no mention of this and then all of the sudden in DA2 he happens to be bisexual. However now I understand what you mean about the story reason for Anders sexuality. I only think a characters sexuality needs explanation if they were in a previous game for and all intents and purposes believed to be straight. For example Ashley in ME. We are lead to believe she is straight although before the game came out was available for both romances. Now if she all the sudden becomes bisexual without explanation thats what I would have a problem with. It doesn't have to be explained to the extent where she gives her whole life story of the past 2 years and what opened her horizon(no pun intended). Just something easy to explain that makes sense. If it is a new character that is homosexual then a brief hint that they are homosexual is enough.

Now that I have considered what you mean about the lazy part I retract that previous statement. I probably am still bothered just by the fact that Anders try hitting on my character. Not that I have a problem with him being himself it just seems that there was no way to let him down gently. Plus a heterosexual character is made to choose between Merril, who I don't care for, and Isabella, who is dumb as a door knob.

To get back on topic of ME3 s/s romance. I'm sure Bioware will put just as much thought into the s/s romance that they do into already existing romances. That said ME3 is already looking stellar and there is still 8months of development left.

[Jimmy Fury]

Augoeides wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...
Like I said I don't mind if the explain why they are that way story wise. If its something as stupid as that they just make them all bisexual for the sake of pleasing everybody then that is lazy. If they make it make sense within story bounds rather than just add it in randomly sort of like Anders than it will work for me. All in all I just don't want them to be lazy about explaining it that way I can express no interest in a LI that may be homosexual.

You might have to explain what's lazy about the implementation exactly instead of just saying it was lazy.
Because honestly putting in more romances for more players that required more dialogue to be written and recorded, more dialogue options to be coded and included in the game's conversation system, more cut scenes, more party banter, and more varied reacitons from NPCs... It's hard to understand how that can be considered lazy.

Then of course there's the bit i really don't understand which is:
1: Anders' sexuality was explained in the story so why is he the example of it being added randomly? If you talk to him about Karl he actually does explain that Circle mages have a tendency to be... adventurous in their sexuality due to the sheltered life they're forced to lead. They take whatever comfort they can get from whomever they can get it from.
2: Why does a character's sexuality even need to be explained? Unless there's some relevance to the plot (as in Anders' case) then what does it matter?

I think it's about the questions: 'why not before' and 'why now?'

Obviously we can say, well Kaidan couldn't/didn't romance MShep in ME1 because that was cut content, but that would be applying a meta-game perspective to an in-game reality which just doesn't work. So if Kaidan does appear as a Bi LI in ME3, there is the question that needs to be answered by Kaidan if the player chooses to engage Kaidan as an LI 'why not and why not before?' and if the answer is anything along the lines of: "You didn't ask" I would be miffed, because that, to me, would be a sucker punch from the devs because the character is calling out our Shep on not approaching him in that manner when the option wasn't available.

On the note of Anders, he had some slightly suggestive dialogue in Awakening to some male characters, nothing compared to all his heterosexual related comments but they were there and the implications seemed quite clear based on the words and tonality of the spoken line. 

I think we're talking about two different things. You and Abispa are both talking about why they can be romanced now. You want the game to explain why they weren't s/s options before.
What I was talking about was their sexuality itself. An explanation for why they're bi. Look at the sentence in the original post that I've bolded. That isn't asking for the difference between games to be explained that's asking for the sexuality to be explained.
And I wasn't commending the Anders explanation. I hated it.
There is no reason s/s options should have their sexuality justified or explained. Heterosexual characters never have to explain why they're straight. They just are. So why should s/s options have to do that?

Explain why they weren't romances sure. The same way Garrus and Tali explained why they never hit on Shep before.  Their sexuality doesn't need a cause or an explanation though because it's just who they are.