25715 réponses à ce sujet

[AngelicMachinery]

IsaacShep wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I’m not entirely sure why people are demanding that the S/S romance should be different based on sex. If anything, I find that laughable. I’ve never understood why people suggest relationships between the various genders. You don’t alter the way that you react with each other because of different parts, you react on each others personality.

But men and women do differ sexually. And different 'parts' are at its source. It's really part of the nature. When we interact friendship-wise, then there's no reason to make conversations different because there's no sexuality involved. But in romantic relations/flirting, sexuality plays a role hence why it's expect 2 guys romancing each other will be at least a bit different than 2 women or a man and a woman romance/flirting each other.

I don't think they really do.  Sure women and men tend to fall into certain personality types,  but,  I find that it is the personas define how the relationship is going to be handled.  I've never found myself acting like anything other than myself in a relationship no matter what the sexes of those involved are.  The two Shepard's are essentially the same character,  their personalities are almost completely identical.  As such,  I see no reason why the two should approach Kaidan differently.  

I think people are just demanding something unique for uniqueness' sake.  

[Jimmy Fury]

KawaiiKatie wrote...
I want homosexual males be equally considered when the Mass Effect writers are crafting their romances. I don't want them to simply retrofit Kaidan's heterosexual romance with opposite pronouns and call it done. I want them to think, "What would a player who has been waiting years to be represented in the Mass Effect series want out of a romance?" I don't want them to just assume that the homosexual male Shepard will want every little detail to be completely and utterly indentical to heterosexual female Shepard, because that's not true.

I know this is going to be taken the wrong way but there's really no other way to say it.

I am a homosexual male.
I have been waiting years to be represented in the Mass Effect Series.
I do want the s/s romance to be fundamentally the same as a new o/s romance.

I never said "utterly identical" I said the same. Change pronouns, inflections, vocal tones, whatever sort of gender specific dialogue might exist. But the fundamentals - the atmosphere, the impact, the explanation for why there was no romance before- I want that to be the same because that makes me feel equal to other players. I don't want special treatement. I want to be treated just like every other player who hasn't had Shepard in a romance until now.

[Ziggy]

I don't care if it's the same, just that it's well done. Like lofsb and not like the priiiize

[KawaiiKatie]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

But the fundamentals - the atmosphere, the impact, the explanation for why there was no romance before- I want that to be the same because that makes me feel equal to other players.

But that explanation should (and is) inherently different between male Shepard and female Shepard. If female Shepard didn't engage in a romance before ME3, her choice to become romantically involved with Kaidan should be treated differently than that of Kaidan and male Shepard. It's simply a different story. Kaidan showed interest in female Shepard before ME3, but not male Shepard. If female Shepard finally chooses to return Kaidan's affection in ME3, the dialogue choices (and the "explanation" for the eleventh-hour nature of their relationship) should be different than those for male Shepard.

If Kaidan has the exact same dialogue options for male Shepard than for female Shepard, (things like "You never showed an interest in me") it'll feel like a slap in the face from Bioware. The choice to engage Kaidan in a relationship was never given to male Shepard, and blaming him for his lack love-life just isn't called for. Kaidan, and Bioware, should recognize that the ability to engage in a relationship is a new thing for homosexual male Shepard, who never had any choice but to remain single. It is, in fact, different from heterosexual female Shepard, who has no one but herself to blame for her bachorlette status.

[weikle21]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

But the fundamentals - the atmosphere, the impact, the explanation for why there was no romance before- I want that to be the same because that makes me feel equal to other players.

But that explanation should (and is) inherently different between male Shepard and female Shepard. If female Shepard didn't engage in a romance before ME3, her choice to become romantically involved with Kaidan should be treated differently than that of Kaidan and male Shepard. It's simply a different story. Kaidan showed interest in female Shepard before ME3, but not male Shepard. If female Shepard finally chooses to return Kaidan's affection in ME3, the dialogue choices (and the "explanation" for the eleventh-hour nature of their relationship) should be different than those for male Shepard.

If Kaidan has the exact same dialogue options for male Shepard than for female Shepard, (things like "You never showed an interest in me") it'll feel like a slap in the face from Bioware. The choice to engage Kaidan in a relationship was never given to male Shepard, and blaming him for his lack love-life just isn't called for. Kaidan, and Bioware, should recognize that the ability to engage in a relationship is a new thing for homosexual male Shepard, who never had any choice but to remain single. It is, in fact, different from heterosexual female Shepard, who has no one but herself to blame for her bachorlette status.

I agree completely. Especially when it's a game that can be so different from playthrough to playthrough. If every was they same, it would be less engaging and "special", I guess, and I think it would be kind of a slap in the face. Also, it could be looked at as lazy-ness .

[Jimmy Fury]

I don't know why I'm even arguing this. I don't even want Kaidan as a s/s romance.

Actually, no, that's exactly why I'm arguing this.

I don't want a seperate-but-equal romance and therefore don't want Kaidan to be the only s/s option.

[KawaiiKatie]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

...don't want Kaidan to be the only s/s option.

Oh man, I'll agree to that. I want Kaidan and Vega both.

I mean, not with the same character, but as options. There's, what, eight heterosexual romances and one "monogendered" whatever romance? I want choices!

[Cuddlezarro]

i dont even like Kaidan infact I plan on killing him asap =3

[Abispa]

James2912 wrote...

 Somebody write something funny, I've had a horrible day of taking angry phone calls for corporate america. 

Dick Trickle. That dude's name always cracks me up.

[demonic_cookie]

I actually keep returning to this... They promised us new characters for s/s romance, didn't they? And someone confirmed females get a human romance option. I don't have the twitter link handy, but they did. So, if we assume that those s/s options are companions and not kelly-esque npcs, what does it mean for the body count, for each gender?

I figure the lowest count for this would be two for females: New s/s human and Liara (who will now magically qualify as lesbian)
That means that the males need 2 options as well, because I really hope now that they decided to put teh gay in, they will treat everyone fairly. Which means, Vega and... well, Kaidan is the obvious choice, but then the f/f fans will get pissed off about Ashley... (me included) An argument could be made that Kaidan is bisexual and Ashley simply isn't, but given her flirty looks in ME1...

So, does this leave us with VS for both sexes, new human for both sexes (did they explicitly state girls get a new human, or just A human?), and then on f/f side it's Liara and on m/m it's... who? Probably an alien, so... I don't know. Making Thane bi would be a kick to the balls because of Kerpal's, but... can you imagine dudebro outrage if Garrus comes out?

Anyway... I'm overthinking it, way too much. Girls will probably get Ashley and Liara, boys Kaidan and Vega. I doubt more than 2 s/s romances will make an appearance. Which only makes being a Jack fan that much sadder these days.

I guess I will keep hoping that they'll decide to give us one of the two human females in ME2 rather than Ashley. But I'm prepared to be heartbroken.

[FoxHound109]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

i dont even like Kaidan infact I plan on killing him asap =3

OH LAWD! This forum is going to go after you with pitchforks and torches! XD

[Cuddlezarro]

FoxHound109 wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

i dont even like Kaidan infact I plan on killing him asap =3

OH LAWD! This forum is going to go after you with pitchforks and torches! XD

iv already stated im planning on killing him in this topic and im still alive lol

[Abispa]

Boys will get Udina and Vernor, with a special DLC unlocking Kaidan for a mere 240 MS points.

Girls will get Samara and a survivable Morinth, with a special DLC that gets all Asari to admit that they're lesbians available free for those who pre-order.

Urz will the get the baddest **** from Tchunka.

Modifié par Abispa, 28 juillet 2011 - 01:50 .

[_Sylar_]

demonic_cookie wrote...

I actually keep returning to this... They promised us new characters for s/s romance, didn't they? And someone confirmed females get a human romance option. I don't have the twitter link handy, but they did. So, if we assume that those s/s options are companions and not kelly-esque npcs, what does it mean for the body count, for each gender?

I figure the lowest count for this would be two for females: New s/s human and Liara (who will now magically qualify as lesbian)
That means that the males need 2 options as well, because I really hope now that they decided to put teh gay in, they will treat everyone fairly. Which means, Vega and... well, Kaidan is the obvious choice, but then the f/f fans will get pissed off about Ashley... (me included) An argument could be made that Kaidan is bisexual and Ashley simply isn't, but given her flirty looks in ME1...

So, does this leave us with VS for both sexes, new human for both sexes (did they explicitly state girls get a new human, or just A human?), and then on f/f side it's Liara and on m/m it's... who? Probably an alien, so... I don't know. Making Thane bi would be a kick to the balls because of Kerpal's, but... can you imagine dudebro outrage if Garrus comes out?

Anyway... I'm overthinking it, way too much. Girls will probably get Ashley and Liara, boys Kaidan and Vega. I doubt more than 2 s/s romances will make an appearance. Which only makes being a Jack fan that much sadder these days.

I guess I will keep hoping that they'll decide to give us one of the two human females in ME2 rather than Ashley. But I'm prepared to be heartbroken.

Well you make a good point,but still I think that maybe Kaidan and Ash won't be s/s characters.With Vega on the run and that new "Vigilante"/or something/->I'm guessing that they would be the ones for the s/s romances.However if they make it like DA2 atleast I hope that there will be different reactions
when you interact with the chosen romance.And the other thing here is that even if they make every single character bi,it may be a good idea to add something like a hidden line(which can be triggered if you act on a certain way with the chosen character and so goes the romance)...still the line between disappointment/succes is very thin...and we could only guess for now what will happen until the release of the game.<_<

[demonic_cookie]

.With Vega on the run and that new "Vigilante"/or something/->I'm guessing that they would be the ones for the s/s romances.

But that would still leave the f/f side of the fence one romance up. Liara is already in the game, so if they do bring a new human LI into the game they have to have 2 male s/s LIs.

[AngelicMachinery]

demonic_cookie wrote...

.With Vega on the run and that new "Vigilante"/or something/->I'm guessing that they would be the ones for the s/s romances.

But that would still leave the f/f side of the fence one romance up. Liara is already in the game, so if they do bring a new human LI into the game they have to have 2 male s/s LIs.

It's part of the whole "Asari aren't female" thing.  Those are the guns bioware is sticking too.

[KawaiiKatie]

Nyoka wrote...

I believe in everyone experiencing the same game, the same characters and romances.

That's one way to write a video game, but that's not Mass Effect. Characters already react different to male versus female Shepard, and I hope that they do so when it comes to Shepard's sexuality.

As you know, Jack has two romances in ME2. Imagine if the casual one could only be made by Femshep, and the cute crying one would be reserved for Manshep. Why would Bioware do that? What if I'm a badass renegade who just want to hump a bit and have no interest at all in cuddly-feely time? Why should I play a character I don't like to get the romance option I like? Wouldn't it be better just to make one good romance for everyone? Again, acknowledgment, yes. Getting rid of equality, no.

I'm not asking for two radically different romances where Kaidan bares his soul to male Shepard but had casual sex with female Shepard. I'm asking for romances that have unique dialogue based on the fact that one is a homosexual relationship, and the other is heterosexual.

To use your Jack example, if Jack is made bisexual in ME3, there should be unique dialogue for female Shepards versus male Shepards. For female Shepard, Jack should be able to discuss her previous "I'm not a 'girl's club' kind of person" comment, and her seemingly casual sexual history with women. For a male Shepard who did not romance Jack in ME2, Jack should be able to discuss why male Shepard did or did not take advantage of her, or why it took him so long to finally express and interest in her, when she brought it up several times. The relationship between Jack and Shepard is already different based on Shepard's gender, and ME3 should reflect this. The same goes for Kaidan.

I bet you liked Kaidan's lines in that romance. Wouldn't have been cool if you had been able to experience that romance with your character?

At the time, yes. But we're beyond that option. The fact that Kaidan and male Shepard already have a very different relationship than that of Kaidan and female Shepard (even if female Shepard did not romance him) should mean that, if Kaidan is bisexual, his romance in ME3 should have two variants based on Shepard's gender. I don't mean two wildly CRAZY DIFFERENT romances like Jack's Renegade versus Paragon romance in ME2, but Kaidan should definitely have two distinct experiences that honours and acknowledges the different relationship that he has with male Shepard as compared to female Shepard.

I suppose that's the fundamental difference between us. I don't think romances are inherently different depending on the sex of the lovers. Neither in the game nor in real life.

I suppose that there are many bisexuals and pansexuals who feel that ways, but certainly not all, and I don't feel that it would be fair to count Kaidan in that category. The fact that Kaidan showed an interest in female Shepard in ME1 should definitely influence how he acts around her in ME3. The fact that Kaidan didn't show an interest in male Shepard in ME1 should influence how Kaidan acts around him in ME3. The two relationships are simply different, and this should be respected, analized, and developed in Mass Effect 3.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 28 juillet 2011 - 02:25 .

[Augoeides]

James2912 wrote...

 Somebody write something funny, I've had a horrible day of taking angry phone calls for corporate america. 

Udina: Shepard, when you selected me as your choice for the Council you ensured that humanity would rise up to its proper place in the galactic community. I have not been forthcoming with my thanks, and now, I would like to change that, I'd like to help you "rise up"

*wiggles eyebrows*

[_Sylar_]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

demonic_cookie wrote...

.With Vega on the run and that new "Vigilante"/or something/->I'm guessing that they would be the ones for the s/s romances.

But that would still leave the f/f side of the fence one romance up. Liara is already in the game, so if they do bring a new human LI into the game they have to have 2 male s/s LIs.

It's part of the whole "Asari aren't female" thing.  Those are the guns bioware is sticking too.

Lol now that you say it like this it makes sense.Why?Well here is how I see things...in ME1 Kaidan->FemShep/Ash->ManShep and Liara for both.Now that they bring the s/s romances I guess it would be the same pattern...like this Vega->ManShep/Vigilante->FemShep and maybe again Liara for both..if you haven't romanced her yet?

@demonic_cookie
I see that it would be fair if there were 2/2 for both Man/Fem Sheps,but as you can see in ME1that distinction wasn't exactly fair for some of the players...and who said it would be again in ME3...really im only guessing and I hope that the game will succeed in everyones expectations,but till then...

[Abispa]

You know what would be cool? Give Vega a heavy Russian accent and have him become obsessed with Shepard's pet space hamster.

[Augoeides]

_Sylar_ wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

demonic_cookie wrote...

.With Vega on the run and that new "Vigilante"/or something/->I'm guessing that they would be the ones for the s/s romances.

But that would still leave the f/f side of the fence one romance up. Liara is already in the game, so if they do bring a new human LI into the game they have to have 2 male s/s LIs.

It's part of the whole "Asari aren't female" thing.  Those are the guns bioware is sticking too.

Lol now that you say it like this it makes sense.Why?Well here is how I see things...in ME1 Kaidan->FemShep/Ash->ManShep and Liara for both.Now that they bring the s/s romances I guess it would be the same pattern...like this Vega->ManShep/Vigilante->FemShep and maybe again Liara for both..if you haven't romanced her yet?

@demonic_cookie
I see that it would be fair if there were 2/2 for both Man/Fem Sheps,but as you can see in ME1that distinction wasn't exactly fair for some of the players...and who said it would be again in ME3...really im only guessing and I hope that the game will succeed in everyones expectations,but till then...

or maybe in ME3:
Kaidan-> FemShep+MShep/Ash -> MShep+FemShep
AND
Vega-> MShep/Vigilante->FemShep
AND
Liara for both
AND
Male alien for both

Wishful thinking? Totally. xD

[gtmanwe]

Jimmy Fury wrote...
I don't want a seperate-but-equal romance

I think I can see what you mean there, if you think about the same Shep being in a male body in one universe and a female body in another, and having taken all the same choices and thus expressing the same personality, the difference between the way femShep and mShep experience intimacy toward the same person shouldn't be too different, all other things being equal.

On the other hand, there does appear to have been at least a little stigma associated with same-sex romances among at least some groups (it hasn't been established yet whether that view is the 'norm' though), and I think because of that there should be some difference in the way that the romance proceeds in social situations. Say in public displays of affection, for instance. Maybe in the speed or way in which the crew finds out. How meaningful it is for your significant other to pause for a moment and then hold your hand when faced with some kind of trauma when everyone is watching. *ahem*

For me, i'd be happy with your way where the difference between a s/s romance and o/s romance is minimal, Jimmy, particularly if that means that I can pursue romances with more characters, but the main thing is that I want for it to *feel genuine*. If they can accomplish that and make it equal, I would be very happy. If they have to sacrifice the honesty to the story between the characters to accomplish that though, I would prefer to have fewer but well-done choices personally.

I am hoping that Bioware blows us away with what they come up with. It would be kind've awesome if they involved some of the s/s fans too to get a balanced view *nudge* *nudge*



One question - perhaps not s/s exclusive, but anyways it's what I think about for my s/s immersion . One thing that I would like to see is more small acts of intimacy throughout the course of the game in addition to whatever awesome climactic body-on-body scene Bioware blesses us with. The small touches to me could really make it feel like the relationships aren't just progressing when you pry into their past in downtime. Stuff like them randomly buying you flowers, a fish or chocolates that turn up your quarters from the gift shop based on a previous question they ask you, holding your hand randomly when you share a moment looking out at the presidium together, turning up randomly sleeping off-shift in your bed when you visit your quarters with some tactful/minimal sheet cover... a love song dedication playing on a long elevator ride, a crewmember commenting on something that you did that was nice saying "that was so sweet of you"...

Doesn't have to be anything over-the-top or unrealistic, in fact it'd be nice if it was just subtle.

Anyway what are your thoughts? I'm probably in the romantic minority but I'm interested in your opinions

[_Sylar_]

gtmanwe wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...
I don't want a seperate-but-equal romance

I think I can see what you mean there, if you think about the same Shep being in a male body in one universe and a female body in another, and having taken all the same choices and thus expressing the same personality, the difference between the way femShep and mShep experience intimacy toward the same person shouldn't be too different, all other things being equal.

You both have a point but still the seperate-but-equal romance is like wanting to see the two sides on a same coin,but even if they are on the same coin those sides have some distinguish features which separates one from another.

@gtmanwe

It would be great to see such a level of intimacy during the game!One of the things that bothered me during ME1/2 is that the climax is always near the end...It would be nice to see during the whole game some little gestures of intimacy

Modifié par _Sylar_, 28 juillet 2011 - 02:45 .

[Abispa]

I would like the see some romantic only body language from LI in non-romance scenes. And some close friends (Bros and Sistas) moments. A hug on the battlefield before the **** hits the fan; a worried look on Shepard's face when he gets a status report from his LI's, bro's, or sista's unit; or Shepard singling out his best buddy Jacob to say it's been an honor serving with him. Or, the worst case scenario, the death of a loved one or the loved one suriving Shepard's death should be an appropriately epic scene.