25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

diskoh wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
I did find Tali's romance to be a retcon.

Unfathomable. Sorry to be rude, but do you have any understanding at all of how relationships and feelings develop?

Since it took years for my wife and I to develop romantic feelings, I will sadly be divorcing her because our marriage is considered a retcon.

Riiight. Me not agreeing with you means I have no understanding of how relationships and feelings develop. 

And if you're gonna bother quoting something actually read what I said on the matter. 

[Syledir]

Ryzaki wrote...

Syledir wrote...
You just said it. To YOU it made a lot more sense. But not to everyone. I regard the Tali romance as equally well made as the Garrus romance. 

The suicidal Garrus theory sounds plausible. 

Sense because there was backstory (he did those kind of actions before) on the other hand Tali's little crush has no basis in backstory to me. 

Talis reasoning went like this:“What could I possibly be suggesting? I mean, a young woman gets rescued by a dashing commander who lets her join his crew and then goes off to save the galaxy? How could she possibly develop any kind of interest in him?”

I am not sure Tali developed her crush during ME1 or ME2. Let's assume it was ME1. Considering her age and the fact that she and Shepard are not of the same species...let's just say I am not surprised that she was a little insecure and needed time.

Still, we are going in the wrong direction. I am not trying to proof who is right and who is wrong. All I am saying is, don't call it retcon, only because you believe it is so.

[mopotter]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

octoberfire wrote...

1. NO character has been gay in a BioWare game. They were either straight or bisexual.

(Well... there's Juhani... though her sexuality technically still debatable... And though I wouldn't exactly chalk her up as huge "victory" for homosexual representation in games, since her implementation was bugged, I still hate to discount her.)


...AAAAAAANYWAY...

I'm kind of hoping for homosexual-restricted characters in ME3. Maybe James Vega and a new female? David Gaider once explained why Bioware favours bisexual characters over homosexual ones, and he made a reasonable, compelling argument, but I still can't help but hope that Mass Effect 3 will try to break the mold and give us some truly amazing homosexual heroes to look up to. (And inevitably romance!)

Me too.  I would really really like to see them do this.   I  want a romance option that I can't even think about romancing if I'm not the same sex.  Mark can be her pal but not her lover, or Kate can go out for a beer with him but he's giving Zaeed glances while we're talking guns.  I just really like this idea.  Will just have to wait and see what they give us.

[Ryzaki]

Syledir wrote...
Talis reasoning went like this:“What could I possibly be suggesting? I mean, a young woman gets rescued by a dashing commander who lets her join his crew and then goes off to save the galaxy? How could she possibly develop any kind of interest in him?”

I am not sure Tali developed her crush during ME1 or ME2. Let's assume it was ME1. Considering her age and the fact that she and Shepard are not of the same species...let's just say I am not surprised that she was a little insecure and needed time.

Still, we are going in the wrong direction. I am not trying to proof who is right and who is wrong. All I am saying is, don't call it retcon, only because you believe it is so.

 

A retcon is retroactive continuity. Basically someone says something happened and...there's evidence to prove it didn't happen. 

I'm not saying she *couldn't* have had a crush. Buthere's absolutely nothing in ME1 to support it. Nothing. She doesn't act oddly around Shepard, no one else suspects this (Liara claims oh "even I could see it" in ME2 yet for some reson no one at all says something even though it's so obvious that Liara who hasn't had human (or any kind of contact) in years can tell right off? Despite it being completely invisible to Shepard? 

If Tali's crush was as obvious as ME1 as it was during ME2...how did Shepard not notice? How did no one notice? Kaidan mentions Liara's crush on Shepard...why would he not notice Tali's? 

Did Tali an rather expressive Quarian somehow masterfully hide her crush during ME1 (yet somehow just enough for Liara, and no one else to notice yet makes it obvious enough that everyone can pick up on it during ME2? Does that really make sense?  

The amount of logic twisting for it to make sense is ridculous. (And before I even hear the "Tali spent a long time with Liara! Uh..no Tali spent alot of time with the engines with Pressly and the others. If she had a crush on Shepard I'd think the people she was constantly around would've noticed especially if it's so obvious that Liara (again this is the socially awkward Liara) noticed and the crew gossipped like mad so it wouldn't be a secret for long). 

It's just a giant...dude what? Scenario that could've been avoided by avoiding the "I loved you all along." bit which frankly was unnecessary to begin with. (Though it could work for FemShepxTali because this time there's actually you know...the nerve stim pro info).

Which really was my whole point...I just want the s/s romances to avoid the I loved you all along trap because...yeah.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 juin 2011 - 12:26 .

[SilentNukee]

Darkhour wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Shadow Broker files are here REGARDLESS of gender.

Right. I'm done here. AT this point you're trolling.

So Tali starts buying the nerve program masturbating and looking up human-qurian sex topics and all that stuff if you're a "femshep"? 

If that is the case then I'm sold. Tali IS gay.
 
For the record, is THAT what you are claiming 

Yes, yes she does. I wish people knew the difference between bisexuality and being straight up gay, though.

Modifié par SilentNukee, 15 juin 2011 - 12:27 .

[mopotter]

EJ107 wrote...

I know that some people have said that new characters would not be as deep, as we would only have known them for one game, but we only knew Ashley, Kaidan, Leliana, Alistair and all of the other Bioware LI's (par Garrus and Tali) for one game, and those romances had depth.

Your right, People said the same thing about the ME2 romances.  That bringing in new romances in ME2 instead of letting us keep Kaidan/Ash and Liara would make the romances less and I think they were wrong.  

I think they could bring in characters we don't know from either of the first two games and make it work.  Though I do like the idea of them bringing in someone from Shepards past maybe from  the military  training years.  

[shepskisaac]

SilentNukee wrote...
Yes, yes she does. I wish people knew the difference between bisexuality and being straight up gay, though.

lmao the comic is great xD Here's a hilarious M!Shep/Kaidan one:

[ArawnNox]

I haven't dug through the thread, but I'd like to chime in for my hopes for ME3.
I hope that S/S couples are more than just, what I felt, where "asari cop-outs" in ME1 and 2.
I hope the LIs aren't just "Shepard-Sexual".
I hope Ashley is available for a S/S option
I hope Tali is available for a S/S option (been wanting this since ME1)
I hope there's more to the revealing of attraction to old squaddies than "I didn't know you felt this way." or "I hid my feelings." Bio can write better than that.

What can I say? I love the yuri, but I genuinely hope the yaoi fans aren't left in the cold, like in ME1 and 2.

[mopotter]

diskoh wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
I did find Tali's romance to be a retcon.

Unfathomable. Sorry to be rude, but do you have any understanding at all of how relationships and feelings develop?

Since it took years for my wife and I to develop romantic feelings, I will sadly be divorcing her because our marriage is considered a retcon.

Don't know about Ryzaki, but yes, I do understand how relationships and feelings develope and change and die and start again.  My husband and I have been together for a while now and I think your being silly.  

I don't mind Tali's romance, I know a lot of people out there like and it that's fine.  But every time I talked to her in ME1 she would say how important her people were to her and said she would go home as soon as we took down Saren, which se did, and when I went to help her she was concerned about Kal'Reeger, asking me to help him which I always do.  So I was surprised when Kelly told Shepard that Tali had a crush on him and I was surprised when the option to romance her came up.  

edit - typo

Modifié par mopotter, 15 juin 2011 - 01:15 .

[shepskisaac]

ArawnNox wrote...
I hope there's more to the revealing of attraction to old squaddies than "I didn't know you felt this way." or "I hid my feelings." Bio can write better than that.

Well, with Kaidan they won't be really able to do more. If he's available for s/s romance, then they will have to stick with what was already told in ME1 (that he simply thought Shepard was straight). If they neglect that it's gonna be inconsistient. Though perhaps they can somehow expand this. But making it overly complicated for the sake of it wouldn't be good either, sometimes simplicity is just better and more realistic.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 15 juin 2011 - 01:11 .

[Dapper Pomegranate]

mopotter wrote...

Me too.  I would really really like to see them do this.   I  want a romance option that I can't even think about romancing if I'm not the same sex.  Mark can be her pal but not her lover, or Kate can go out for a beer with him but he's giving Zaeed glances while we're talking guns.  I just really like this idea.  Will just have to wait and see what they give us.

Please, yes. This would answer so many of my lame video game related prayers.

ArawnNox wrote...
What can I say? I love the yuri, but I genuinely hope the yaoi fans aren't left in the cold, like in ME1 and 2.

*sniff* It's dark and cold...so cold

@IsaacShep: I lol'd at the comic. Love it

Modifié par FrozenFire42, 15 juin 2011 - 01:12 .

[Abispa]

One subject that I'd like to bring up is just how far does Bioware have to take a relationship during a game in order to keep romance fans happy? Do they have to consummate their relationship on the eve of the final battle? What if Shepard and LI simply acknowledge their feelings during the game, never have sex, and just ride off together at the end of the game?

Considering that the invasion appears to be on at the start of the game, I wonder about the sense of appropriate timing for the snuggle-bunnies, and I wonder if some players consider the eve of battle tumble to be cliche now, or an ME staple. I think (now, not having played the game) that I'd prefer a romantic epilogue (or a suitably tragic one if the LI or Shepard dies).

Now, I LIKE Tali, and I am NOT trying to get Talimancers angry at me, but I was unhappy that Shepard and Tali APPEARED to have sex in ME2. I wasn't offended that Tali fans were being catered to, but I was unhappy that Bioware decided to belittle the whole fragile Quarian immune system the game-makers had beat us over the head with for two games.

I prefer to think that Tali unmasked and there was kissing, groping and heavy petting, but no actual intercourse with Shepard discharging into Tali, nor oral consumption of bodily fluids. Even the limited "making out" seemed a bit much considering established Quarian lore, though.

I do wonder if the Tali romance should have been established as a bittersweet forever together but forever apart, or if maybe Shepard shouldn't have been concerned about taking away a potential mother from a race on the verge of extinction and kind of steer her toward Reegar.

[shepskisaac]

FrozenFire42 wrote...
@IsaacShep: I lol'd at the comic. Love it

It reminded me when someone posted "I am Commander Sheppard and Kaidan Alenko is my favourite power bottom in the galaxy!" in one of the recently closed romance threads hahaha xD

Modifié par IsaacShep, 15 juin 2011 - 01:15 .

[slimgrin]

Siansonea II wrote...

This thread's purpose is NOT to discuss real-world issues related to homosexuality, gender identity, politics, religion, etc. 

Well nigh impossible, since the ME universe has all of these things. I may not appreciate the way S/S is being implemented in the game, but I'm not against it.

[Medhia Nox]

@Abispa - I think I would be pleased with you writing some of the romances for future ME games.

As I "may" be finding my LI for the first time in ME 3 (and I so hope it's that hunk sniping from Big Ben - one can dream) - I actually don't want some trashy sex seen. It's so tired and childish.

I'd be very happy with a confession of love - a kiss - and hell, some sort of dinner scene instead of a sex seen. A final meal before the big fight - that sounds great.

When saving the galaxy is done - we can keep everyone in the Normandy up all night with our wild love-making. But until then - I actually wouldn't mind not having them waste development time on a poorly done screw scene.

[Dapper Pomegranate]

Abispa wrote...

One subject that I'd like to bring up is just how far does Bioware have to take a relationship during a game in order to keep romance fans happy? Do they have to consummate their relationship on the eve of the final battle? What if Shepard and LI simply acknowledge their feelings during the game, never have sex, and just ride off together at the end of the game?

Considering that the invasion appears to be on at the start of the game, I wonder about the sense of appropriate timing for the snuggle-bunnies, and I wonder if some players consider the eve of battle tumble to be cliche now, or an ME staple. I think (now, not having played the game) that I'd prefer a romantic epilogue (or a suitably tragic one if the LI or Shepard dies).

I really hope they don't follow their trend with the eve of battle tumble. It was okay the first time, lame the second, and would be disastrous a third time. Also melodramatic (see what I did there?). If there simply must be a sex scene, I'd prefer it to be like DAO, where it's reactive to shep's (in this case) relationship with the LI, rather than a plot point.

IsaacShep wrote...
It reminded me when someone posted "I am Commander Sheppard and Kaidan Alenko is my favourite power bottom in the galaxy!" in one of the recently closed romance threads hahaha xD

Hah! I kind of want to turn that into a sig banner.

[Siansonea]

slimgrin wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

This thread's purpose is NOT to discuss real-world issues related to homosexuality, gender identity, politics, religion, etc. 

Well nigh impossible, since the ME universe has all of these things. I may not appreciate the way S/S is being implemented in the game, but I'm not against it.

Certainly comparing ME implementation and real world analogs is going to happen, but the thread is not a place to debate religion, morality, politics, etc. If people have objections to s/s content in ME3 on these grounds, well, this just isn't the place to discuss it. This is a thread for discussing the game and it's fictional universe, specifically same-sex romance, not present-day real-world society and its attitudes and such.

It should be noted however that at this point we simply don't know how s/s will be implemented in the game, and it's likely that whatever the final form it takes, some subset of the player base will be displeased with it to some degree.

[shepskisaac]

[quote]Medhia Nox wrote...
As
I "may" be finding my LI for the first time in ME 3 (and I so hope it's that hunk sniping from Big Ben - one can dream) - I actually don't want some trashy sex seen. It's so tired and childish.

I'd be very happy with a confession of love - a kiss - and hell, some sort of dinner scene instead of a sex seen. A final meal before the big fight - that sounds great.

When saving the galaxy is done - we can keep everyone in the Normandy up all night with our wild love-making. But until then - I actually wouldn't mind not having them waste development time on a poorly done screw scene. [/quote]
Not a bad idea but still no  I want the sex scene for my s/s romance period. Would suck if we didn't get it after everyone else did... They can save new 'dinner' approach to romances for ME4 or whatever comes next.

[quote]FrozenFire42 wrote...
It reminded me when someone posted "I am Commander Sheppard and Kaidan Alenko is my favourite power bottom in the galaxy!" in one of the recently closed romance threads hahaha xD [/quote]
Hah! I kind of want to turn that into a sig banner.
[/quote]
lmao me too but I don't think mods would allow xDDD

Modifié par IsaacShep, 15 juin 2011 - 01:34 .

[Eternal Dust]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Abispa - I think I would be pleased with you writing some of the romances for future ME games.

As I "may" be finding my LI for the first time in ME 3 (and I so hope it's that hunk sniping from Big Ben - one can dream) - I actually don't want some trashy sex seen. It's so tired and childish.

I'd be very happy with a confession of love - a kiss - and hell, some sort of dinner scene instead of a sex seen. A final meal before the big fight - that sounds great.

When saving the galaxy is done - we can keep everyone in the Normandy up all night with our wild love-making. But until then - I actually wouldn't mind not having them waste development time on a poorly done screw scene.

Regarding the sex scenes, I would rather they go "ME1" or go home. I'd rather not have another repeat of the ME2 awkward camera angles and dry humping in clothes again. God those were awful

[Siansonea]

octoberfire wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Abispa - I think I would be pleased with you writing some of the romances for future ME games.

As I "may" be finding my LI for the first time in ME 3 (and I so hope it's that hunk sniping from Big Ben - one can dream) - I actually don't want some trashy sex seen. It's so tired and childish.

I'd be very happy with a confession of love - a kiss - and hell, some sort of dinner scene instead of a sex seen. A final meal before the big fight - that sounds great.

When saving the galaxy is done - we can keep everyone in the Normandy up all night with our wild love-making. But until then - I actually wouldn't mind not having them waste development time on a poorly done screw scene.

Regarding the sex scenes, I would rather they go "ME1" or go home. I'd rather not have another repeat of the ME2 awkward camera angles and dry humping in clothes again. God those were awful

I agree. ME1's scenes were tasteful and realistic, and intimate. I certainly don't want anything too gratuitous, that just seems voyeuristic to me. But ME2's scenes were too "PG-13" to me, and many of them were just so...brief. Thane shows up, cries, boom, it's over. Garrus shows up, makes some awkward remarks, headbump, boom, it's over. Jack shows up, cries, boom, it's over. Jacob, Miranda and Tali seem to have the most extensive scenes, though that may just be my perception.

[Dapper Pomegranate]

IsaacShep wrote...

FrozenFire42 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

It reminded me when someone posted "I am Commander Sheppard and Kaidan Alenko is my favourite power bottom in the galaxy!" in one of the recently closed romance threads hahaha xD

Hah! I kind of want to turn that into a sig banner.

lmao me too but I don't think mods would allow xDDD

Heh, yeah, too explicit I suppose. Damn you censorship!

octoberfire wrote...
Regarding the sex scenes, I would rather they go "ME1" or go home. I'd rather not have another repeat of the ME2 awkward camera angles and dry humping in clothes again. God those were awful

But don't you know, with all the space STDs floating around in 2185 prophylactics simply aren't good enough. Dry humping is all the rage for the safe spacefarer.

Modifié par FrozenFire42, 15 juin 2011 - 01:43 .

[Maugrim]

The one thing I did like about ME2's romance scenes was that they had some damned personality to them. ME1's were all variations on a very narrow theme. *flame shield on*

[Aurellia]

I think we can agree on the following

- no ninjamances
- whatever ss relationships that are in game should be high quality writing and NOT an asspull for the character if it is an existing character.

Now this said, I am going to come out and say I want well written same sex options with characters from the previous games. I would like the option to roleplay through the first two games as FemShepard longing for Tali or Ashley, which I have felt both while playing ME1 and ME2 and being frustrated that they are not available. It would be very rewarding/satisfying to have this come to fruition in the third game if it is well written.

Throwing me a token new SS romance that doesn't have a significant (eg squadmate) past with me won't cut it. I want this relationship even if it becomes romantic in the third game to have its roots in the previous games through an extended friendship. This makes the romance an integral part to the climax of the trilogy.

This also is how I've seen relationships in real life work. Sometimes it happens right away in other cases you can have people that are sure they are friends for 10 years suddenly realize how much they really love one another. The latter is actually what happened in my life.

As a female I want Ashely and Tali. For MaleShep I want at least Kaiden. Since I am not male it is hard for me to think of another suitable male past squadie--maybe Mordin. Or do Joker (and maybe add a fling with Conrad Verner for comic relief to counter balance the Kelly romance>)

Modifié par Aurellia, 15 juin 2011 - 01:53 .

[Eternal Dust]

FrozenFire42 wrote...

octoberfire wrote...
Regarding the sex scenes, I would rather they go "ME1" or go home. I'd rather not have another repeat of the ME2 awkward camera angles and dry humping in clothes again. God those were awful

But don't you know, with all the space STDs floating around in 2185 prophylactics simply aren't good enough. Dry humping is all the rage for the safe spacefarer.

I blame Kelly for the scale itch! 

[Abispa]

@ Siansonea II -- You thought the Jack scene was quick? I tried the romance for a lark once and spent what seemed at least five minutes laughing my ass off while Shepard dry-humped Jack into submission.

And your complaint about Garrus kind brings out my point. Considering the obvious physical differences and the fact that Turians are supposed to be VERY sensitive to human DNA (according to the Citadel custodian), I thought it was VERY appropriate that we just got the loving head bump and fade out.