25715 réponses à ce sujet

[shepskisaac]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

I think if anyone was interested in s/s shep ME2 would've been the proper time and place to say so for past LIs

Ashley and Kaidan weren't squadmates in ME2 and didn't go to suicide mission with Shep, thank you. Seriously, drop this 'they would've said something' nonsense. If you don't care Tali didn't reveal her feelings immediately and you don't call that retcon/tackled on, then you can't do that to anyone else either or you're simply a pure h-y-p-o-r-i-c-t-e.

Destroy Raiden wrote...

and will lose some of their demographic support.

Ohh you're one of the Straight Male Gamers™? I feel bad for intelligent straight male gamers, the ones like you give them bad name.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 05 août 2011 - 05:21 .

[lazuli]

Meeeeeow.

Whatever the case may be, I have enough faith in Bioware's writers that even if past LI's become available for SS romance, it won't seem random or out of place. There is some dramatic potential, particularly for buried feelings and unrequited love. I can see why others wouldn't want it to be a big deal, though.

[endermaryn]

Even though it will likely never happen, I dream of a patch being released for the first game to make Kaidan and Ashley both available for s/s LI. The dialogue is still there, after all, so a DLC/patch wouldn't be that much work. I would even pay for something like that. But ultimately, if my male Shepard can finally romance Kaidan without turning back into a female, I will probably be just as happy. ^.^

[ElitePinecone]

lazuli wrote...

Meeeeeow.

Whatever the case may be, I have enough faith in Bioware's writers that even if past LI's become available for SS romance, it won't seem random or out of place. There is some dramatic potential, particularly for buried feelings and unrequited love. I can see why others wouldn't want it to be a big deal, though.

That's pretty much how I feel also. 

The writing quality is good enough to justify a great many things (I don't see many people complaining about Tali or Garrus' romances, for example, and they were *entirely* constructed for ME2). 

I don't feel strongly either way; I've always felt that Bioware never had an obligation to provide s/s romances (given audience and budget issues), and getting any content at all is a good thing. 

I'd err slightly on the side of allowing aliens to romance both genders of Shepard (I highly doubt ME2 characters would be re-romancable in ME3, however) - because we know nothing about alien sexualities and it'd be almost trivial to write a compelling reason for such a romance to occur. 

A lot of this back-and-forth arguing is, arguably, irrelevant - have we had *any* indication that previous games' characters will be even open to new romances? 

[catharsisboo]

Terror330 wrote...
*snip*

Not once have I claimed that I "know it". Not once have I "got all excited". I said that Garrus makes the most sense to me to be an M/M option. Last I checked, the both of us are entitled to our opinions. You sound like you're getting angry so this is where I'm going to stop. I like having discussions, but not when they dissolve into fighting, considering nearly half of your post alternates between accusing people of "not knowing" and you getting defensive.

Destroy Raiden wrote...
The best solution is brandnew characters become s/s options past LIs stay hetro and BW won't be losing business.

People would actually not buy the game just because there might be an option for a male Shepard to get it on with Kaidan? That has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard on BSN.

[RubyRed1975]

Well aren't we all making assumptions? Everyone can pick and choose a quote from one of the characters in the game, and then make assumptions on whether or not that character can be classified as straight, gay or bi.

However, I've noticed that as soon as someone disagrees with whether a character can be bi or not then they are jumped on an classified as " The Straights" who don't want to see this in their game. But, you can't be angry when someone voices an opinion different from everyone else. That's just being childish and rude.

[ElitePinecone]

RubyRed1975 wrote...

Well aren't we all making assumptions? Everyone can pick and choose a quote from one of the characters in the game, and then make assumptions on whether or not that character can be classified as straight, gay or bi.

However, I've noticed that as soon as someone disagrees with whether a character can be bi or not then they are jumped on an classified as " The Straights" who don't want to see this in their game. But, you can't be angry when someone voices an opinion different from everyone else. That's just being childish and rude.

Respectfully, I think you've misunderstood what some people were saying by 'The Straight Male Gamer'. 

It doesn't refer to all straight people, at all (in fact, I'd rather people stop using it, because it's frustrating and liable to be misinterpreted). It was referring to a certain group of people - and one poster from a few months ago in particular - who self-identify as both straight and male in order to whine about optional content for other people. In that case, the person was arguing that Bioware should exclusively make the majority of content for 'Straight Male Gamers' because they constituted a majority of their audience and thus deserved more. Do a Google search to find some articles about it, David Gaider's reply was eloquent. 

Opinions are fine, but they're better when they're backed up by some solid arguments. Given that this is a forum, where we all do forum-y things like discuss issues, I can't see why people refuting what you're saying is necessarily bad. You're welcome to your opinion, and I'm sure many (even most?) people share it - but you're going to get some backlash when you post in threads like these. 

Some people on both sides might be childish and rude. That's unfortunate - but the best thing to do is to keep acting maturely and ignore the stupid stuff. 

[RubyRed1975]

@Elite sorry You know what I say about idiots like that screw 'em. I live in the bible belt and you can't even imagine the hate that I see for gays and bi. If anyone thinks that a game should be strictly catered to the Sraight male gamer then they are idiots. But, I knew that as soon as the s/s option was implemented in ME3 that there were going to be issues. That said I do support this s/s LI but please not the everyone is bi option. And some people forget that it is always Shepard who initiates the romances so, if they don't want it in their game then they shouldn't flirt lol!

[RubyRed1975]

Oh yes and I do realize that if they make Kai/Ash s/s options that would make them bi lol I just hope that they if BioWAre goes that route that they remember that Kai/Ash are to separate characters and should be treated as such!

[ScotGaymer]

ElitePinecone wrote...

RubyRed1975 wrote...

Well aren't we all making assumptions? Everyone can pick and choose a quote from one of the characters in the game, and then make assumptions on whether or not that character can be classified as straight, gay or bi.

However, I've noticed that as soon as someone disagrees with whether a character can be bi or not then they are jumped on an classified as " The Straights" who don't want to see this in their game. But, you can't be angry when someone voices an opinion different from everyone else. That's just being childish and rude.

Respectfully, I think you've misunderstood what some people were saying by 'The Straight Male Gamer'. 

It doesn't refer to all straight people, at all (in fact, I'd rather people stop using it, because it's frustrating and liable to be misinterpreted). It was referring to a certain group of people - and one poster from a few months ago in particular - who self-identify as both straight and male in order to whine about optional content for other people. In that case, the person was arguing that Bioware should exclusively make the majority of content for 'Straight Male Gamers' because they constituted a majority of their audience and thus deserved more. Do a Google search to find some articles about it, David Gaider's reply was eloquent. 

Opinions are fine, but they're better when they're backed up by some solid arguments. Given that this is a forum, where we all do forum-y things like discuss issues, I can't see why people refuting what you're saying is necessarily bad. You're welcome to your opinion, and I'm sure many (even most?) people share it - but you're going to get some backlash when you post in threads like these. 

Some people on both sides might be childish and rude. That's unfortunate - but the best thing to do is to keep acting maturely and ignore the stupid stuff. 

I get what ruby is saying some of the reactions by pro-ss camp has been just as extreme as some of the opinions aired by the anti-ss camp.

And it IS a bit judgemental, rude, and silly to jump all over people (more moderate ones i mean) that arent in favour of SS.

The problem for myself is I am yet to see a strong, solid, logical arguement against including SS for ManShep (it was already included in ME and ME2 for FemShep) and I blatantly appealed in another thread for the anti ss crowd to actually provide me with one.
Being gay I would of course be in favour of SS however the basic reason I seem to be seeing from the vast majority of those against it seems to be ultimately wether they admit it or not rooted in latent homophobia; and that makes me really sad because in this day and age such attitudes are increasingly irrelevant and stupid.

I would love for an Anti-SS person to give me a REAL reason for not including SS that isnt blatant hypocracy or latent homophobia. A logical real reason.
Id disagree of course but it would reassure me that the entire anti-ss crowd isnt unreasonable idiots.

There was a poster who posted a long spiel against including SS that fully admitted that the reason he didnt want it was because he was uncomfortable with homosexual males due to his personal belief system. Think it was GhostWarrior (?).
I actually have more respect for this person than I do the "im not homophobic but..." anti-ss folks. At least hes being honest about it.

[DCYNIGR8]

I don't see the problem is that people are having in regards to s/s relationships. I agree everyone should not suddenly be bi, but Tali and Garrus aren't romanceable in ME but are in ME2 so why can the same not be said of, say, the VS? They seem to be the most logical choice for s/s interests as whilst they are not romanceable in ME they don't appear for long in ME2 so it's not inconceivable.

As far as aliens go, I don't think enough is known about the sexuality of other races to rule out the possibility of s/s, Femshep and Liara have a romance option so why not?

A s/s relationship is not something I've personally gone with, in any of my playthroughs, but to deny those that want to the opportunity, based on simple homophobia, is ridiculous. I can see no logical explanation as to why it cannot be included in ME3, especially in Malesheps case as there has been no options available in terms of m/m when Femshep and Liara have the option of f/f. There's nothing forcing your Shepard to be gay or bi or straight or to have a relationship with anyone at all, just because the option is there does not force you to do so.

[Saeran]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

^ So far I'm gathering people want so badly for innuendos any little reuse of words on BWs part counts as they could be into s/s shep so they want it! There is also the factor some indicate they've been pining and waiting for whomever they fancy to turn up sheps hidden always wanted you sense ME LI partner.

I'm also confused with the whole trilogy romance they're saying they want. You can't have a trilogy romance - 2 games. I think if anyone was interested in s/s shep ME2 would've been the proper time and place to say so for past LIs if they show up in ME3 wanting s/s shep it's officially BW retconning/ tacked on/ whatever term you wish to imply they caved and will lose some of their demographic support.

The best solution is brandnew characters become s/s options past LIs stay hetro and BW won't be losing business.

Ah, Mr Hypocrisy returns to share his view. By your train of thought Tali was a retcon, that seemed to be fine by you. Why would BioWare lose "demographic support" if it never lost any support retconning away at characters such as Tali and Garrus?

[ArawnNox]

RubyRed1975 wrote...

Oh yes and I do realize that if they make Kai/Ash s/s options that would make them bi lol I just hope that they if BioWAre goes that route that they remember that Kai/Ash are to separate characters and should be treated as such!

You, me, and everyone else. *worry*

[endermaryn]

InviolateNK wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

^ I can't image somebody wouldn't buy ME because of more OPTIONAL romance content in the game. That's just silly.

Existing characters have a lot of fans, including gay fans. There's no reason to limit romance options just because it would contradict certain ASSUMPTIONS people have been making.

Such people do exist, moreover, they seem to be proud of their decision not to buy the game because they're such male homosexuality fighters.

Although of course it's just rant, they will buy it eventually

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I didn't play ME for the longest time because I only play male characters and I knew that a m/m LI wasn't an option. And yes, I know not playing because of such a reason was silly.

Anyway, I finally picked it up and I LOVED the game. I didn't romance anyone because I couldn't have Kaidan and didn't want anyone else. When I was halfway through the first game I found out about ME finally having m/m romances, not just lesbian ones and I was so HAPPY!!!

I'm glad BioWare is finally implementing this and the wait for ME3 is killing me. I just hope that my long awaited m/m romance is going to suitably epic.

Modifié par endermaryn, 05 août 2011 - 04:10 .

[BeastMTL]

Personally all I hope is that either way (previous characters/previously non-romanceable ones/new characters) the wrting will be well done and explain things in a sensible manner.

And YAY for a m/m romance! My shepard was getting mighty lonely.

[Ace Attorney]

I'm not against Same Sex relationships but I hope BioWare doesn't pull an Anders and makes characters come on to Shepard and get angered by rejection. I think since the characters will now be exploring the Same Sex relationship, and they didn't before in ME1 & ME2, it should be Shepard who starts the interest.

[Russalka]

T3hAnubis wrote...

I'm not against Same Sex relationships but I hope BioWare doesn't pull an Anders and makes characters come on to Shepard and get angered by rejection. I think since the characters will now be exploring the Same Sex relationship, and they didn't before in ME1 & ME2, it should be Shepard who starts the interest.

It will be as you say, I believe.

But to me, it seemed that the reaction from Anders was very in-character. He was desperate for affection and wanted to not be alone with his woes and cause, very passionate.

[MACharlie1]

T3hAnubis wrote...

I'm not against Same Sex relationships but I hope BioWare doesn't pull an Anders and makes characters come on to Shepard and get angered by rejection. I think since the characters will now be exploring the Same Sex relationship, and they didn't before in ME1 & ME2, it should be Shepard who starts the interest.

I get mad when a female squadmate hits on my ManShep....(not really but I'm making a point that it's not just the same sex relationships that have this problem) 

And Anders reaction was perfectly in character (of DA2) and realistic. Next time you hit on someone and they turn you down cold - check how you feel. And it's easy to gain any loss points back anyway. 

[Tonymac]

I am pretty firmly in the anti-SS camp. I would be offended if some dude hit on me - because its happened in real life. Its not the lifestyle I chose. I love women, what can I say.

That being said, I see no issue with a player in a game initiating whatever interaction they choose with whomever they choose. Its your game, play it how you want to. It's here for all of us to enjoy how we desire.

I just don't want to walk up to Garrus (or any other male) and have them hit on me. That would make me uncomfortable - just like any straight guy would feel if he noticed some dude staring at his package. Trust me - thats a flag on the play. Time out. And back the hell up.

I do not think that it will be too hard for Bioware to make it so that everyone can enjoy the game without being offended. Just color the interactions (like renegade/paragon options) so that you know that this path of convo goes in this or that direction.

[TheMarshal]

Tonymac wrote...

I am pretty firmly in the anti-SS camp. I would be offended if some dude hit on me - because its happened in real life. Its not the lifestyle I chose. I love women, what can I say.

That being said, I see no issue with a player in a game initiating whatever interaction they choose with whomever they choose. Its your game, play it how you want to. It's here for all of us to enjoy how we desire.

I just don't want to walk up to Garrus (or any other male) and have them hit on me. That would make me uncomfortable - just like any straight guy would feel if he noticed some dude staring at his package. Trust me - thats a flag on the play. Time out. And back the hell up.

I do not think that it will be too hard for Bioware to make it so that everyone can enjoy the game without being offended. Just color the interactions (like renegade/paragon options) so that you know that this path of convo goes in this or that direction.

I don't think it's unreasonable to be put off by getting hit on by someone you have no interest in, but it works both ways.  Speaking from an in-game perspective, there are going to be women who don't want to get hit on by men, men who don't want to get hit on by women, etc.  The only way to get around this is to have all romances be player-initiated, which is definitely a safe route, but I think it subtracts from the narration a bit.  Some characters are the type who openly hit on others (Isabela, Anders, Liara, Shiala, etc.).  Forcing them to stonewall you unless you explicitly declare your interest first feels false and inorganic.  The problem that I had with Anders hitting on an un-interested Hawke wasn't that I had to reject him and that he liked me less for it, it was that there wasn't a "nice" way of turning him down.  I'd rather have characters declare their interest (so long as it's in-character) and have the ability to gently turn them down rather than bite their head off.

[jlb524]

Tonymac wrote...
I am pretty firmly in the anti-SS camp. I would be offended if some dude hit on me - because its happened in real life. Its not the lifestyle I chose. I love women, what can I say.

Just thank your lucky stars you weren't born a female..you'd have to deal with that kind of thing a lot more.

[SpaceinMind]

I'm fine with new s/s romance and past LI's having an s/s romance option. As long as Bioware makes it believable then it would be a nice addition to the game.

[Master Shiori]

I'm hoping for past LI's being open to s/s romance. Having Bioware create new LI just for a s/s romance wouldn't be appealing to me, not to mention we already have a bucket load of LI's to begin with.