25715 réponses à ce sujet

[MACharlie1]

I hope they avoid more then two new romances on the simple fact that I don't have enough room on an alignment chart to please everyone...
EDIT:

Although....I could always remove the limitation of the line of Man/Fem Shep where I have TWO Sheps per alignment - one male, one female. 

...great. now I have to do ANOTHER 10 playthroughs by March. Le sigh. 

Modifié par MACharlie1, 06 août 2011 - 09:54 .

[lilliful]

Eamon696 wrote...

How many S/S LIs do you guys want? One for each gender? All LIs to be available for romance?

I agree with Abispa. I think all bisexual LI's should be the standard for a BioWare release after seeing it in DA2.  
The reason all-bi is my ideal is because, in my opinion, it keeps a lot of the writing to a higher standard. If the studio feels that their audience is clearly divided into a hetero male option for female gamers, and a hetero female option for male gamers, we get the kind of discrepency in writing and criticalness to storyline that we see in KOTOR with Bastila being far more important and, in my opinion better written, than Carth. When they're all bi, everyone has an option to pick the best-written character as a romance option for whatever PC they want to play, and it keeps writers honest by allowing a poorly-written character to be flamed by the entire audience of the game (as it was an option for everyone). I perpetually fear that the first gay-only m/m or lesbian-only f/f option will be campy, under-developed stereotype that only a very small segment of the audience will attempt to court, and go on to complain about.


However, now that we've established the ideal, I'll go ahead and let it slip that I'd be satisfied as long as there was one bisexual m/m option and one bisexual f/f option. All I really want is for a PC that I choose to play as gay to have an equal romance when compared with a straight PC. So, stunts like censoring the kiss out of gay romances in Jade Empire but having kisses for the straight ones? Yeah, that didn't sit well with me. Nor the Juhani barely-there romance compared to the straight options in KOTOR. If we're going to have a Queer as Folk reference moment, "if you ever forget you're gay, a straight person will remind you." That's really all I'm looking to avoid when it comes to BioWare options. I don't want to have moments where I realize I'm being singled out and treated differently because I'm playing as a gay character. Maybe they only throw me one s/s romance option and I don't like them. That's fine! Happens to straight characters too! I'm sure that, over the course of BioWare's long history, many have had a "I'd rather be single than take THAT option" moment. I just don't want to feel like my romance options are uniquely shot in the foot due to s/s proclivities. 

[Quething]

lilliful wrote...

So, stunts like censoring the kiss out of gay romances in Jade Empire but having kisses for the straight ones? Yeah, that didn't sit well with me.

There's a mod for that!

But yes. I think the DA2 system was honestly the best I've seen and the best we can realistically hope for for a couple console generations yet. Four romances, two per gender, minimal enough of a dating pool to ensure that all characters get decent development time and large enough that every PC has at least two choices for a meaningful romance.

I don't think that will necessarily fix the "main romance" problem, though. I mean, Carth and Bastila are pretty obviously not equal, and yes, that's because femRevan and dudeRevan are not equal. But Alistair and Morrigan definitely are equal, and they weren't available to the same part of the player base. (That said, the fact that the two lead, story-integrated romances were the het-only ones is not an insignificant or accidental dev choice, and making Anders and Izzy bi in DA2 was thus IMO one of BioWare's finest moments in the whole history of their romance writing).

Modifié par Quething, 06 août 2011 - 10:45 .

[silentassassin264]

If they are doing two f/f and two m/m I am fine except Liara should not count as a f/f LI. She is an Asari. Casey Hudson spent who knows how long explaining that she does not count as a female so that would really really annoy me if they backtracked on that.

[shepskisaac]

silentassassin264 wrote...

If they are doing two f/f and two m/m I am fine except Liara should not count as a f/f LI. She is an Asari. Casey Hudson spent who knows how long explaining that she does not count as a female so that would really really annoy me if they backtracked on that.

It's not like anyone believed it though. Everyone knew it was an excuse to dodge the questions why there wasn't any gay male romances. I mean, I've been hearing that excuse just as long, yet my GayShep didn't suddenly got interested in Liara/Asari because Casey explained they're not actually women Don't want to offend anyone but really:


It was a female s/s option... And she also has the biggest romance of all ME LIs...

[Abispa]

So do we put asterix next to Liara and Kelly in the s/s scorecard? Does Bioware make Garrus the parallel Asari for s/s (not really s/s 'cause he's an alien) and does Joker become the Easter Egg bi-male option, and THEN Bioware comes up with a two s/s for each gender?

[silentassassin264]

Sure it was a f/f option but now the official stance is "Hey guys we are adding s/s romances in ME3!" and I would feel terribly cheated with the whole adding something if they count Liara as one of the "added s/s romances" since it was already there.

[Erani]

I'd be happy with 2 s/s options for each gender, not including Liara (as "it" is not female :innocent:) for ME3, but from now on I think BioWare should continue with the all-bi system from DA2.

[shepskisaac]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Sure it was a f/f option but now the official stance is "Hey guys we are adding s/s romances in ME3!" and I would feel terribly cheated with the whole adding something if they count Liara as one of the "added s/s romances" since it was already there.

Understandable, but I think you will also understand how would people that want m/m romances feel if BioWare pretended both f/f romances recieved equally zero attention in ME1 & ME2 as m/m ones did.

InviolateNK wrote...
Isaac, what did you just post? I think you need a cold, cold shower     I'm also reporting you to Kaidan 

I'm always up for a cold shower with Kaidan :innocent:

Modifié par IsaacShep, 06 août 2011 - 11:21 .

[DarkDragon777]

I don't mind having all bisexual characters as long as Shepard is the person initiating the romances. I'd rather not have male crewmates making unwarranted advances on my Shepard.

[shepskisaac]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

I don't mind having all bisexual characters as long as Shepard is the person initiating the romances. I'd rather not have male crewmates making unwarranted advances on my Shepard.

Why? It's part of the story. Just as it is a part of the story when an ugly female or a female you are not interested yourself in makes a pass on your Shep. Then that pass is unwanted just as well. It is only realistic to have some characters initiate a romance themselves. Some people are shy and won't say anything, but some people are not.

[silentassassin264]

Erani wrote...

I'd be happy with 2 s/s options for each gender, not including Liara (as "it" is not female :innocent:) for ME3, but from now on I think BioWare should continue with the all-bi system from DA2.

I would love that too but Bioware might not do that again since so many people (or just a small amount of vocal people,I dunno) got rather angry with the whole Anders wanting to romance you thing.

[Abispa]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

I don't mind having all bisexual characters as long as Shepard is the person initiating the romances. I'd rather not have male crewmates making unwarranted advances on my Shepard.

I agree with you ONLY in regards to returning ME3 characters. It would seem forced if any of the returning characters were to suddenly become Isabela or Zevran. As for NEW characters, it would be hypocritical to argue that s/s characters should be forbidden to initiate romances since that is pretty much how most of the m/f romances have been initiated in Bioware games.

I mean, go back to ME1. My male Shepard had to beat Ashley and Liara off with a stick (okay, only Liara since Ashley was more than welcome), and my female Shepard sometimes felt she needed to dump a bucket of ice water on Kaidan and Liara.

I have no idea if the VS will be s/s options, but if they are I agree that they should approach the s/s romance differently. A good excuse would be that, as Nef and Kelly have shown us, s/s romances are still considered exotic and/or strange in the ME universe, so it was understandable that the VS wouldn't hit on s/s Shepard until they knew for sure s/he was open to it. Kaidan never had a chance to find out about male Shepard and Ashley wouldn't have known about female Shepard until AFTER she had already started romancing Liara.

Modifié par Abispa, 06 août 2011 - 11:59 .

[Quething]

IsaacShep wrote...

DarkDragon777 wrote...

I don't mind having all bisexual characters as long as Shepard is the person initiating the romances. I'd rather not have male crewmates making unwarranted advances on my Shepard.

Why? It's part of the story. Just as it is a part of the story when an ugly female or a female you are not interested yourself in makes a pass on your Shep. Then that pass is unwanted just as well. It is only realistic to have some characters initiate a romance themselves. Some people are shy and won't say anything, but some people are not. 

My inner anthropologist would love to see numbers on how many male gamers have this complaint versus female gamers.

And while Liara is obviously a f/f romance no matter what bullspit BioWare tries to feed us, I am, yes, going to be very, very mad if they try to weasel out of a human f/f romance by telling us we've already got Liara. You cannot has both ways, BioWare.

[Abispa]

Quething wrote...

My inner anthropologist would love to see numbers on how many male gamers have this complaint versus female gamers.

And while Liara is obviously a f/f romance no matter what bullspit BioWare tries to feed us, I am, yes, going to be very, very mad if they try to weasel out of a human f/f romance by telling us we've already got Liara. You cannot has both ways, BioWare.

Yeah, finding out that Liara is bisexual would be, like, the ULTIMATE RETCON! The trolling in these forums would reach a breaking point.

[shepskisaac]

Abispa wrote...

My male Shepard had to beat Ashley and Liara off with a stick

[Erani]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Erani wrote...

I'd be happy with 2 s/s options for each gender, not including Liara (as "it" is not female :innocent:) for ME3, but from now on I think BioWare should continue with the all-bi system from DA2.

I would love that too but Bioware might not do that again since so many people (or just a small amount of vocal people,I dunno) got rather angry with the whole Anders wanting to romance you thing.

But some people being mad about Anders flirting with Hawke/not taking rejection well is different from Anders being bi or protagonist-sexual or whatever you call it. If you play as Lady Hawke, there's nothing about Anders being into men. So BioWare could continue with the DA2 approach to romance availability, just not do any companion initiated romance.

[jlb524]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Erani wrote...

I'd be happy with 2 s/s options for each gender, not including Liara (as "it" is not female :innocent:) for ME3, but from now on I think BioWare should continue with the all-bi system from DA2.

I would love that too but Bioware might not do that again since so many people (or just a small amount of vocal people,I dunno) got rather angry with the whole Anders wanting to romance you thing.

The Anders complaining is really separate from the 'all bi LI' complaining, as that issue deals with the question, "Should some party members initiate romance or should it always be left up to the player?"  Of course, when the party member doing the flirting is male...we get problems for some male players who are insecure about such things.

There are people that just don't like the all bisexual LI thing for whatever reason (they need to have pure heterosexual characters I guess...), but I'd venture a guess and say they are a loud minority.  According to polls I've seen on this site, most don't care or support all bi LIs.

Modifié par jlb524, 07 août 2011 - 12:13 .

[ArawnNox]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Erani wrote...

I'd be happy with 2 s/s options for each gender, not including Liara (as "it" is not female :innocent:) for ME3, but from now on I think BioWare should continue with the all-bi system from DA2.

I would love that too but Bioware might not do that again since so many people (or just a small amount of vocal people,I dunno) got rather angry with the whole Anders wanting to romance you thing.

To hear some of them complain, you'd think that the "All Bi Love Intrest" thing is what "ruined" DA2.
<_<

[Jimmy Fury]

ArawnNox wrote...
To hear some of them complain, you'd think that the "All Bi Love Intrest" thing is what "ruined" DA2.
<_<

It makes me laugh when people complaining about the all bi LI's point to the terrible scores it got as "proof" that the LI's were a bad idea.
Because ya know... those scores have nothing to do with the downright painful dungeon recycling, disjointed plot, uncomfortable bias of ALL mages in the game being evil except the Hawke (whether pc or Bethany), and general sense of "huh?" at the so-called ending...
Nope. It's all because 4 bisexuals in one room is MIND EXPLODINGLY UNREALISTIC.

I swear I haven't seen a single professional game critic say anything about the romances being a problem. People either praise them or can't be bothered to mention them because they're too busy imploding with rage over the actual problems with the game.

[Dhiro]

Meh. I liked DA II, so the "DAII SUCKED BECAUSE X" really means nothing to me. It is a silly thing to say, though.

[bleetman]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Nope. It's all because 4 bisexuals in one room is MIND EXPLODINGLY UNREALISTIC.

Hey, there's Hawke too. That's FIVE.

[Abispa]

ArawnNox wrote...

To hear some of them complain, you'd think that the "All Bi Love Intrest" thing is what "ruined" DA2.

<_<

Yeah, identical caves, teleporting slavers, and parachuting Darkspawn in the Deep Roads are easily tolerated, but having Fenris and Anders checking out my male Hawke's junk is INTOLERABLE!

*Sob.* My immersion is ruined!