25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

LiaraShepard wrote...
Yes, that's exactly how I think. Why can't they imagine that gays and lesbians want the same number of choices? I bet they wouldn't be happy at all if they were the minority and got less love interests than other sexual orientated people.  Because the more choices we have the more possibilities to pick out our most favorite character we get. And that's not a bad thing. I wouldn't wish straight people to get less choices than the others. So I'm a bit sad that a lot of them don't want gays and lesbians to have the same variety.

I have no idea. It somehow takes something from them? *shrugs*

I'm sad as well as long as all the romances are well written...why does it matter what gender Shepard they can romane in someone else's game? 

[Abispa]

Erani wrote...

Yes, especially the part where FemShep moves her hands towards Liara's posterior ---> Liara's eyes go "let's embrace eternity black"....she totally did not get turned on by FemShep grabbing her butt.

That's why the screen went black as the offended Liara TOTALLY kicked Shepard's ass and then Asari brainwashed her so thoroughly that female Shepard, for the first time ever, actually sat down on a couch like a woman.

[Burneye Is God]

i think its a good idea to have s/s romance options gives people more choices etc

[Quething]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Aveline, Varric, Bethany, and Carver are all heterosexual also.

Well, Aveline does have that one moment during Longest Road, where she'll give the exact same "I know there was never anything there, but did you ever wonder about us...?" line to m!Hawke and f!Hawke. I wouldn't call that proof of bisexuality or anything, but it does demonstrate a certain degree of.... idk, philosophical bicuriosity? Or I suppose it could just be the power of suggestion due to Hawke's relentless flirting (it must have had some effect, right?).

Abispa wrote...

Erani wrote...

Yes, especially the part where FemShep moves her hands towards Liara's posterior ---> Liara's eyes go "let's embrace eternity black"....she totally did not get turned on by FemShep grabbing her butt.

That's why the screen went black as the offended Liara TOTALLY kicked Shepard's ass and then Asari brainwashed her so thoroughly that female Shepard, for the first time ever, actually sat down on a couch like a woman.

You just had to bring that up, didn't you

Modifié par Quething, 10 août 2011 - 12:50 .

[Chun Hei]

Ryzaki wrote...

I have no idea. It somehow takes something from them? *shrugs*

I'm sad as well as long as all the romances are well written...why does it matter what gender Shepard they can romane in someone else's game?

But it is SO awful for my immersion when my character is hit on by someone of the same gender! I know that I am not alone because the amount of whining on the Bioware forum was EPIC when Leliana, Kelly and Liara hit on players' female heroes.

[Finis Valorum]

LiaraShepard wrote...

Yes, that's exactly how I think. Why can't they imagine that gays and lesbians want the same number of choices? I bet they wouldn't be happy at all if they were the minority and got less love interests than other sexual orientated people.  Because the more choices we have the more possibilities to pick out our most favorite character we get. And that's not a bad thing. I wouldn't wish straight people to get less choices than the others. So I'm a bit sad that a lot of them don't want gays and lesbians to have the same variety.

I have a feeling ME3 will go back to the DA:O model of the one token m/m Li anyways (f/f fans might get more chances at serendipity) since the ME3 dev team seems to have a generous dislike of m/m pairings.
For predictable reasons this makes me somewhat sad and while I agree that strictly speaking the all bi li approach might not be the most "realistic" but in a  (science)fantasy videogame where characters routinely flout the laws of physics as we know and understand them "realism" isn't a convincing argument for me.
It always irks me that people seem to expect and demand a conservative American notion of morality in a fictional society where the fireballs are literally whizzing around your ears.

[LiaraShepard]

Ryzaki wrote...

LiaraShepard wrote...
Yes, that's exactly how I think. Why can't they imagine that gays and lesbians want the same number of choices? I bet they wouldn't be happy at all if they were the minority and got less love interests than other sexual orientated people.  Because the more choices we have the more possibilities to pick out our most favorite character we get. And that's not a bad thing. I wouldn't wish straight people to get less choices than the others. So I'm a bit sad that a lot of them don't want gays and lesbians to have the same variety.

I have no idea. It somehow takes something from them? *shrugs*

I'm sad as well as long as all the romances are well written...why does it matter what gender Shepard they can romane in someone else's game? 

Right, there's no need for them to be afraid that their favorite character could be bisexual and attracted to the other Shepard as well. In DA2, Merril and Fenris were Hawke-sexual and Merril isn't less interested in male Hawke just because female Hawke is also able to date her. Because Merril isn't bisexual. She's always been Hawke-sexual. And since there's only one Hawke in the playthrough we follow, there's no need to think "omg, she would have dated female Hawke as well! She doesn't love my body enough!"...that's ridiculous. And to think "every male character will hit on my male shepard" is also stupid. Even in DA2 only Anders made an obvious hint. And "one" person hitting on Shepard or Hawke isn't unrealistic. The statement all of them are bi is stupid... They aren't bi, they're just available for both genders and I'm glad that Bioware was so fair to take homosexuals into the same account when it comes to romance. 

[ElitePinecone]

Abispa wrote...

I remember early after the release of DA2 that players were concerned with the LACK of choices it had. You couldn't dress up your party like they were a pack of Barbie dolls. You couldn't make Merrill learn a healing spell. Why can't Fenris learn how to use a shield? I could make Anders a blood mage in DA:A, why can't he be one now?

I don't know how many of those players who complained about the lack of party customization are also against the "OMG! All Bi!" option in DA2, but I can specifically name 11. In a role playing game choice is a good thing, and I applaud Bioware giving people the ability to romance any of the LOVE INTERESTS with either gender. It's a shame they added that choice while taking away a whole host of others players enjoyed.

I also liked the ability to flirt with almost everyone, specifically because it allowed my Bioware hero to finally get shot down repeatedly in a game.

I'm wary of using DA2 as a benchmark or comparison to the Mass Effect series, because they're clearly different games with a different development philosophy and a different target audience... 

But I would say there's something disingenuous about people who claim that a character who has branching narrative paths - like different romance options depending on gender - is somehow weakened or diminished, or made less interesting. There doesn't seem to be an outcry about branching character paths for, say, a character like Garrus, who can be influenced towards paragon or renegade in the first game. The fact that he has two possible 'states of being', depending on player choices, doesn't weaken the character.

I don't like to make accusations lightly, but given the volume and vehemence of people causelessly criticising DA2's system, I suspect their problem isn't so much about branching narratives as it is a perceived lack of heterosexual love interests and a perceived abundance of options for s/s romances. 

More to the point, I can rarely argue against an option that gives players more choice and more content to experience. 

[Abispa]

@ Finis Valorum -- I will cut the ME3 team a little slack as far as s/s romances go since s/s options have been sadly limited for the entire series and, IF it happens, this will be the first time Bioware will make certain characters LIs for one gender long after they had been available for the other. Sure, it should have been available at the start, but I think it bodes well for future Bioware releases, including future ME games.

[Abispa]

Quething wrote...

You just had to bring that up, didn't you

Yeah, I know. It totally ruins your immersion and breaks established game lore to NOT have female Shepard sitting down with her legs spread.

Modifié par Abispa, 10 août 2011 - 01:07 .

[LiaraShepard]

Finis Valorum wrote...

LiaraShepard wrote...

Yes, that's exactly how I think. Why can't they imagine that gays and lesbians want the same number of choices? I bet they wouldn't be happy at all if they were the minority and got less love interests than other sexual orientated people.  Because the more choices we have the more possibilities to pick out our most favorite character we get. And that's not a bad thing. I wouldn't wish straight people to get less choices than the others. So I'm a bit sad that a lot of them don't want gays and lesbians to have the same variety.

I have a feeling ME3 will go back to the DA:O model of the one token m/m Li anyways (f/f fans might get more chances at serendipity) since the ME3 dev team seems to have a generous dislike of m/m pairings.
For predictable reasons this makes me somewhat sad and while I agree that strictly speaking the all bi li approach might not be the most "realistic" but in a  (science)fantasy videogame where characters routinely flout the laws of physics as we know and understand them "realism" isn't a convincing argument for me.
It always irks me that people seem to expect and demand a conservative American notion of morality in a fictional society where the fireballs are literally whizzing around your ears.

well as I said, I don't think they're automatically bisexual if you can romance them with each gender. I think it's just a sign that you have more choices to create your own story. And in my opinion, that's what role playing games stand for. And yes, we don't know how the society is built up in future times. Besides that, Mass Effect is a parallel universe. Yes, there's an earth planet, but we don't have asaris, turians, biotics and so on. So why isn't it possible to have a world were more than 5 % of the population is bisexual?

Modifié par LiaraShepard, 10 août 2011 - 01:08 .

[Puzzlewell]

 Space!Aveline would make my life as an F/F option...  Well, you know, provided she would actually romance FemShep.  *has LadyHawkes that pine hard for Aveline*

Modifié par CalamityRanger, 10 août 2011 - 01:09 .

[Abispa]

elektrego wrote...

It is amazing how much people who apparently are sci-fi fans more or less, have a problem to grasp the concept of alternate universes.

If two radically different concepts like heterosexuality and homosexuality ever appear in the same video game universe at the same time, they will explode, cancel each other out, and release a terrible amount of destructive energy into the cosmos.

[LiaraShepard]

elektrego wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Aveline, Varric, Bethany, and Carver are all heterosexual also.

At least for the course of the game, as we lack a  sexual biography for their complete lives. Using myself as an example again, there are episodes in my life, if you look at them isolated. you could see me as either homosexual or heterosexual or completely confused (a state of mind which I have presently returned to), without changing my core personality.
This is one form of argumentation that has the potential to really make me mad and it is not restricted to matters of sexual orientation: Because a person says one thing or acted a certain way at one point in their lives it has to be so for all eternity.

And it is not everybody is bi, but everybody can potentially be bi, gay or straight, depending on the universe the player chooses to create. It is amazing how much people who apparently are sci-fi fans more or less, have a problem to grasp the concept of alternate universes.

well said. I completely agree with this.  It's our own story we create and that's why I like role playing games. So much freedom.

Modifié par LiaraShepard, 10 août 2011 - 01:15 .

[Abispa]

CalamityRanger wrote...

 Space!Aveline would make my life as an F/F option...  Well, you know, provided she would actually romance FemShep.  *has LadyHawkes that pine hard for Aveline*

Well, you can always hope that Ashley become a s/s LI, or maybe that Samara will change her mind.

[LiaraShepard]

Abispa wrote...

elektrego wrote...

It is amazing how much people who apparently are sci-fi fans more or less, have a problem to grasp the concept of alternate universes.

If two radically different concepts like heterosexuality and homosexuality ever appear in the same video game universe at the same time, they will explode, cancel each other out, and release a terrible amount of destructive energy into the cosmos.

I think it's a question of how tolerant we are. As long as our own concept isn't canceled we should be tolerant enough to allow other people to have the same choices...

Modifié par LiaraShepard, 10 août 2011 - 01:19 .

[Puzzlewell]

Abispa wrote...

Well, you can always hope that Ashley become a s/s LI, or maybe that Samara will change her mind.

Ash is my number one choice to be honest. I'm trying to remain realistic just incase she isn't, but I'd be such a happy camper if she is. I know a few of people aren't quite keen on both VSes being s/s, but it gives me a bit of hope that maybe Ash can finally be with one of my FemSheps.

Modifié par CalamityRanger, 10 août 2011 - 01:26 .

[Quething]

Abispa wrote...

Quething wrote...

You just had to bring that up, didn't you

Yeah, I know. It totally ruins your immersion and breaks established game lore to NOT have female Shepard sitting down with her legs spread.

Just bceause other people's Shepards are so goddamn unprofessional that they wear dresses around on a warship, my ability to roleplay a "masculine" femShep gets taken away. Dammit, if I wanted a heteronormative PC I'd go play Bayonetta. BioWare's supposed to be better than that! They give us s/s options and everything!

[vorianxavier]

CalamityRanger wrote...

Ash is my number one choice to be honest. I'm trying to remain realistic just incase she isn't, but I'd be such a happy camper if she is. I know a few of people aren't quite keen on both VSes being s/s, but it gives me a bit of hope that maybe Ash can finally be with one of my FemSheps.

I hope for this too! If BW does it right Ash and Kaidan can both be s/s options and still both be completely separate characters...and for one thing, the palpable tension was there for both of them in ME1 long before Virmire Kaidan wiping his brow as ManShep slowly strides up to him, the "Dismissed, Chief." "Ma'am," exchange with FemShep and Ash...

[Dhiro]

Quething wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Quething wrote...

You just had to bring that up, didn't you

Yeah, I know. It totally ruins your immersion and breaks established game lore to NOT have female Shepard sitting down with her legs spread.

Just bceause other people's Shepards are so goddamn unprofessional that they wear dresses around on a warship, my ability to roleplay a "masculine" femShep gets taken away. Dammit, if I wanted a heteronormative PC I'd go play Bayonetta. BioWare's supposed to be better than that! They give us s/s options and everything!

I hope MSheps can sit with their legs crossed, too

[Twizz089]

Its silly and unbelievable to have characters changing their sexual preference based on the sex of the player.

[The Uncanny]

Twizz089 wrote...

Its silly and unbelievable to have characters changing their sexual preference based on the sex of the player.

Why? It's a game. It's ALL silly and unbelievable.

[Puzzlewell]

vorianxavier wrote...
I hope for this too! If BW does it right Ash and Kaidan can both be s/s options and still both be completely separate characters...and for one thing, the palpable tension was there for both of them in ME1 long before Virmire Kaidan wiping his brow as ManShep slowly strides up to him, the "Dismissed, Chief." "Ma'am," exchange with FemShep and Ash...

This bit of tension is exactly what made me start pining for Ash.  "Say Chief, are you being *coy* with me? :wub:" I'm starting to warm up to the idea of new characters being s/s options (mainly cause I know nothing of this Vigilante lass but if her codename is anything to go by, she could be amazing...) but that definitely doesn't crush the want for Ash to finally realize she's head over heels for FemShep (even though I kind of seeing her be a bit tsundere about it, which is impossibly adorable to me XP).

Modifié par CalamityRanger, 10 août 2011 - 02:28 .

[Arik7]

Twizz089 wrote...

Its silly and unbelievable to have characters changing their sexual preference based on the sex of the player.

Is it also "silly and unbelievable" that Shepard is changing his/her apprearance, gender, race, sexual prerence, moral allignment based on the player?   There's nothing wrong with customized characters.   The point of an RPG is untimately to create your own story, and to have fun.  

Modifié par Arik7, 10 août 2011 - 02:31 .