25715 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

ElitePinecone wrote...

I don't like to make accusations lightly, but given the volume and vehemence of people causelessly criticising DA2's system, I suspect their problem isn't so much about branching narratives as it is a perceived lack of heterosexual love interests and a perceived abundance of options for s/s romances. 

More to the point, I can rarely argue against an option that gives players more choice and more content to experience. 

It's funny considering many of these same people complained about the lack of branching narratives in other aspects of DA2.  Choice and variety in storytelling is desired unless it has to do with s/s romance possibilities

Yeah...makes sense...so I agree with your assessment.

Modifié par jlb524, 10 août 2011 - 04:06 .

[wetnasty]

Wait so are we completely disregarding the fact that bisexuality already *exists* in the ME universe via all of the Asari and Kelly? Are we wanking over this solely based on the fact that it is now going to be available for men too? Really? This whole thing seems pointless to me. If you don't want your character to be bi, DON'T ROMANCE THEM ON BOTH SEXES. I highly doubt your teammates will walk up to you and tell you about their experiences at Biotic camp when the lights went out, and if they do, guess what, you have the option to not want to hear about it at all.

Make up your own sexuality for characters you believe shouldn't be open to certain sexes. And if you just can't deal with the fact that bisexuality exists in the Mass Effect universe, just don't buy the game. This all seems so pointless.

[Twizz089]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...
No I insinuated that it is silly for EVERYONE  to be bisexual/gay and to come to this realization later in their lives

How does Kaidan -or- Ashley, Garrus, Jacob, Tali, Miranda, Thane, Jack, and Liara (actually we won't count her because she already likes Shepard no matter what) account for everyone?

And while we're on this logic train, how is it realistic for three out of four of my female squadmates all to have crushes on my male Shepard?

Did you just name ever LI in the game and then tried to argue that, that doesnt mean everyone lol?


"And while we're on this logic train, how is it realistic for three out of four of my female squadmates all to have crushes on my male Shepard?"

Because he is famous and charismatic.....

Modifié par Twizz089, 10 août 2011 - 04:18 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

Twizz089 wrote...
Did you just name ever LI in the game and then tried to argue that, that doesnt mean everyone lol?

I don't know how it's an unrealistic number.  It's improbable, but not out of the realm of reality.  Bisexuality already exists in the Mass Effect universe, so a handful of people in the entire galaxy being bisexual is unrealistic?

"And while we're on this logic train, how is it realistic for three out of four of my female squadmates all to have crushes on my male Shepard?"

Because he is famous and charismatic.....

... Right.  Forget that argument you yourself made about "realism," about having some people turning you down because of personality or what have you.   Apparently that isn't necessary when bisexuality/homosexuality isn't an issue.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 10 août 2011 - 04:24 .

[jlb524]

Twizz089 wrote...

Every LI in the game should not be bisexual its a cheap fix. Incase you missed what I posted earlier, ill repost it.
  I WANT s/s content.  I want there to be  characters in the game that reject the main character because they are gay or because they are straight.  What I dont want is the Dragon Age 2 solution of making everyone bi.  This is a cheap band aid fix to the problem.  I want an immersive romance system where characters reject the main character simply because they dont like his personality or because they only like men or only like women.  I want sexuality to be used as a tool to build more beliveable characters, I dont want something as powerful as a person sexuality to be something that is interchangable.  I dont want the cheap fix.

So, you want them to spend loads of time building 'immersive' romance systems where the LI rejects the PC based on sex, personality, background, race, class, morality, etc.?

You do realize that the majority of fans don't even finish any romance content?  I doubt it's economically feasible to spend that much time on something like this instead of working on parts of the main storyline (something everyone will see).  This is why ME romances have been generic towards Shepard...they all play out the same regardless of Shepard being Paragon/Renegade, treating the LI like crap earlier, being Earthborn vs. Spacer, etc.

The only limitation has been gender, but that hardly makes the ME romances special or unique because they'd also work with the s/s PC.

This is why I feel that BW makes these 'generic' romances.  First, it's more efficient for them.  Second, it gives those that do like to play the romance subplots (again, a minority) the option to play the one they want.  If you are making content for a minority of fans that are passionate about it, why limit their RP possibilities?

[hoorayforicecream]

Twizz089 wrote...

Every LI in the game should not be bisexual its a cheap fix. Incase you missed what I posted earlier, ill repost it.
  I WANT s/s content.  I want there to be  characters in the game that reject the main character because they are gay or because they are straight.  What I dont want is the Dragon Age 2 solution of making everyone bi.  This is a cheap band aid fix to the problem.  I want an immersive romance system where characters reject the main character simply because they dont like his personality or because they only like men or only like women.  I want sexuality to be used as a tool to build more beliveable characters, I dont want something as powerful as a person sexuality to be something that is interchangable.  I dont want the cheap fix.

I've seen responses like this, and they all seem pretty similar, so I'll just quote myself from about a month ago on a very similar DA2 topic.

The main reason that they decided to make everyone bisexual in DA2 was because there wasn't enough time to create more romances, but they still wanted to give more options than they did in DAO, where same-sex players were given one choice of either gender. It was either Zev, Leliana, or nothing. The biggest issue is that romances just don't rank very highly on the priority list for gameplay. The metrics they have show that not many people complete the romance content, despite the passion of its fans. So it only has a certain amount of total development time to get done, and they purposely chose to provide *more* option than less.

I agree that, if they had enough time to do it, we should totally have a spread of sexualities. That's something that would be nice to have. But the biggest issue isn't what we want, but how much development time they have. They've gone on record saying that they won't ever make strictly homosexual characters, which means that the very best that same-sex players have to hope for is equal options to the heterosexual players. At worst, they get nothing. And both the designers *and* the players don't like that.

It's a really tough situation, because, given the constraints, the "best" option ends up with the same-sex players will always end up with less than or equal to the hetero options. You can't design in a vacuum, you can't create in a vacuum, and you will always be a slave to the schedule and to the rules laid down by the higher-ups. So until the 'no strictly gay characters' ban is lifted, I'd be much happier with more inclusive than less even though it may "help" the story's believability otherwise for others. If they ever lift the ban I'll be the first to say "Go for it", but until then I'd rather have the available ones be bi.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 10 août 2011 - 04:27 .

[Siansonea]

Twizz089 wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

Are you insinuating that every person is bi or has yet to come out of the closet?

I am not fooled by you, Straw Man!

No where in my post did I insinuate that.  You merely insinuated that it was completely impossible for ANYONE to be bisexual/gay and to come to this realization later in their lives, because apparently it is a stagnant and crystal-clear personality trait that everyone can see.

No I insinuated that it is silly for EVERYONE  to be bisexual/gay and to come to this realization later in their lives

Let's look at the matrix of what we're actually talking about:

Existing Human LI Characters:

Kaidan Alenko
Ashley Williams
Jacob Taylor
Miranda Lawson
Jack
Kelly Chambers

Existing Alien LI Characters:

Liara T'Soni
Garrus Vakarian
Tali'Zorah
Thane Krios

Okay, so of the first group, we've got two males and four females. Of the four females, one is openly bisexual already (Kelly) and Jack reveals having bisexual encounters in her past, regardless of her sexual preference (which is never explicitly stated, though many interpret her comment "not into the girl's club thing" to indicate that she has no romantic interest in women). That leaves Ashley and Miranda. Is it really beyond the realm of possibility that both these women might be bisexual? Maybe not all that statistically likely, but hardly game-breaking in any case. Regardless, though, I would say it's probably not BioWare's plan to make both Ashley and Miranda bisexual. In fact, I wouldn't bet the farm that Miranda is coming back as an LI at all—for all we know she might be the prototypical Bond Girl femme fatale—sleeps with Bond Shepard, then tries to kill him/betrays him. So that just leaves Ashley. Is it really so hard to believe that she might be bisexual if the stars align just right and she meets the right woman? I think it could work.

Then there's the two boys. I don't think BioWare is going to make them BOTH bisexual. I think Kaidan has the strongest likelihood of being bisexual, and his backstory doesn't really contradict that. As with Miranda, I doubt Jacob is going to come back as a standard squad mate. After all, he's a Cerberus agent, and the Alliance is going to take a dim view of his changed allegiance. Plus Jacob is a less popular character than Kaidan by a wide margin. Very few people have campaigned for s/s Jacob. 

So really, you're worried over nothing when it comes to the human characters.

Now with the alien characters, I have no idea what BioWare is planning and I don't care, since I don't care for the alien romances (except for asari). And asari are by definition bisexual already. But as for Garrus, Thane and Tali, who knows what the incidence of bisexuality is among their species? I don't. I think it's odd that these aliens are already xenosexual, so going same-sex with another species seems a comparatively smaller leap. After all, we're already talking about incompatible genitalia even with a "heterosexual" pairing. Regardless of the shapes and sizes of the various naughty bits, we know they are chemically incompatible. And turians aren't even quasi-mammalian like quarians.

I still think most aliens would look at humans as resembling non-tentacled asari, with brown-orange-pink skintones rather than violet-blue-aqua skintones. And human hair is probably the most unique trait that they would focus on to differentiate humans, much as humans would focus on the facial paint patterns of turians, the facial marking patterns of asari, and the skintone color and pattern variations of salarians. 

Modifié par Siansonea II, 10 août 2011 - 04:31 .

[Clonedzero]

i dont think a "coming out" storyline is all that good for a game like mass effect. seems like it would take away from all the cool crazyness of the sci-fi universe.

also, 200-something years in the future where theres space aliens, and relationships between humans and aliens, and all sorts of weird stuff like that. why would anyone bother to hide their sexuality? i doubt theres any social or cultural taboos about it that far into the future.

its swiftly becoming more widely accept int he world today, 200 years in the future, where theres aliens and space travel, i doubt anyone would give a damn what your sexuality is. hence i find a "coming out" character arch to be fairly pointless and not very believable in context with the universe.

however i could find anti-alien/human relationship stuff to be fully believable.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Clonedzero wrote...

i dont think a "coming out" storyline is all that good for a game like mass effect. seems like it would take away from all the cool crazyness of the sci-fi universe.

also, 200-something years in the future where theres space aliens, and relationships between humans and aliens, and all sorts of weird stuff like that. why would anyone bother to hide their sexuality? i doubt theres any social or cultural taboos about it that far into the future.

its swiftly becoming more widely accept int he world today, 200 years in the future, where theres aliens and space travel, i doubt anyone would give a damn what your sexuality is. hence i find a "coming out" character arch to be fairly pointless and not very believable in context with the universe.

however i could find anti-alien/human relationship stuff to be fully believable.

I don't believe that there should be any "coming out of the closet" deal either, but no one's past history really contradicts the possibility of being bisexual.  It was game limitations more than anything.

[Twizz089]

jlb524 wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

Every LI in the game should not be bisexual its a cheap fix. Incase you missed what I posted earlier, ill repost it.
  I WANT s/s content.  I want there to be  characters in the game that reject the main character because they are gay or because they are straight.  What I dont want is the Dragon Age 2 solution of making everyone bi.  This is a cheap band aid fix to the problem.  I want an immersive romance system where characters reject the main character simply because they dont like his personality or because they only like men or only like women.  I want sexuality to be used as a tool to build more beliveable characters, I dont want something as powerful as a person sexuality to be something that is interchangable.  I dont want the cheap fix.

So, you want them to spend loads of time building 'immersive' romance systems where the LI rejects the PC based on sex, personality, background, race, class, morality, etc.?

You do realize that the majority of fans don't even finish any romance content?  I doubt it's economically feasible to spend that much time on something like this instead of working on parts of the main storyline (something everyone will see).  This is why ME romances have been generic towards Shepard...they all play out the same regardless of Shepard being Paragon/Renegade, treating the LI like crap earlier, being Earthborn vs. Spacer, etc.

The only limitation has been gender, but that hardly makes the ME romances special or unique because they'd also work with the s/s PC.

This is why I feel that BW makes these 'generic' romances.  First, it's more efficient for them.  Second, it gives those that do like to play the romance subplots (again, a minority) the option to play the one they want.  If you are making content for a minority of fans that are passionate about it, why limit their RP possibilities?

Using this same logic is ok for for BW to use reuse environments throughout the game's side quest because its economically feasible and the majority of fans dont even finsh the content?  If your going to add a feature, dont half do it.  I would rather less more immersive features then a large amount of shallow features with little depth.  For example, instead of adding the kinect, they could have spent those reasources on strengthening a feature (like side quest, romance is a "side quest" after all) that is already in the game.

It is not my job as a consumer to decide what is economically feasible for a company, it is my job as consumer to demand the best product possible, and offer feedback on what I feel needs to be improved.

Modifié par Twizz089, 10 août 2011 - 04:42 .

[jlb524]

Clonedzero wrote...
i dont think a "coming out" storyline is all that good for a game like mass effect. seems like it would take away from all the cool crazyness of the sci-fi universe.

No one has to come out though.

Looking at Ashley, from an in-game perspective, she doesn't have to 'come out' and explain to FemShep why she went for a dude in ME1 but not FemShep because this 'dude' (MaleShep) doesn't exist in FemShep's universe.

I don't think there needs to be a meta-explanation for this either.

[Siansonea]

Twizz089 wrote...
*snip*

It is not my job as a consumer to decide what is economically feasible for a company, it is my job as consumer to demand the best product possible, and offer feedback on what I feel needs to be improved.

I may not agree with everything you say, but I agree with this.  After all, this entire thread exists to give suggestions for improvements to the game. Whatever resource juggling BioWare has to do to make that happen is not my problem. Although if we're going to list expendable features, I'd put the Hammerhead at the top of the list.

[hoorayforicecream]

Twizz089 wrote...

Using this same logic is ok for for BW to use reuse environments throughout the game's side quest because its  economically feasible and the majority of fans dont even finsh the content?  If your going to add a feature, dont half do it.  I would rather less more immersive features then a large amount of shallow features with little depth.  For example, instead of adding the kinect, they could have spent those reasources on strengthening a feature (like side quest, romance is a "side quest" after all) that is already in the game.

It is not my job as a consumer to decide what is economically feasible for a company, it is my job as consumer to demand the best product possible, and offer feedback on what I feel needs to be improved.

Out of curiousity, why is have you started with sexual orientation as the pain point of feedback, rather than personality, or other factors you cited? Wouldn't getting the romances accepted or rejected based on personality be *more* immersive than based on sexual orientation, as well as less politically-charged? I think everyone would agree that a personality-based romance acceptance/rejection would be much more welcome.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 10 août 2011 - 04:54 .

[jlb524]

Twizz089 wrote...

Using this same logic is ok for for BW to use reuse environments throughout the game's side quest because its economically feasible and the majority of fans dont even finsh the content?  If your going to add a feature, dont half do it.  I would rather less more immersive features then a large amount of shallow features with little depth.  For example, instead of adding the kinect, they could have spent those reasources on strengthening a feature (like side quest, romance is a "side quest" after all) that is already in the game.

It is not my job as a consumer to decide what is economically feasible for a company, it is my job as consumer to demand the best product possible, and offer feedback on what I feel needs to be improved.

I personally don't mind the reuse of areas (it's understandable and others do it as well).

It isn't your job to decide but it is theirs...they are a business with limited time and resources.  They can't spend unlimited time and money on games to please every single fan.  You're more than welcome to give feedback, but don't expect them to listen to everything you suggest.

You will also need to explain to me how BW's current system leads to shallow romances...I don't just mean the 'all bi LI' thing, but romances in which the PC's class, morality, etc. mean little.

Did you enjoy any of the ME romances?

[Clonedzero]

jlb524 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
i dont think a "coming out" storyline is all that good for a game like mass effect. seems like it would take away from all the cool crazyness of the sci-fi universe.

No one has to come out though.

Looking at Ashley, from an in-game perspective, she doesn't have to 'come out' and explain to FemShep why she went for a dude in ME1 but not FemShep because this 'dude' (MaleShep) doesn't exist in FemShep's universe.

I don't think there needs to be a meta-explanation for this either.

well thats why i think the s/s relationships should only be humans, since they can sorta just hand-wave it, "well they were always bi, they just never mentioned it" which is fine if they write it appropriately.

with any of the aliens though, you'd have to do some explaining on why the hell they're attracted to shepard and why shepards attracted to them, and why the relationship makes any sense.

since everyones familiar with humans and the general concept of human sexuality, you cant really just go "well it makes sense that shepard and garrus/tali are an s/s couple now because ____!" it would just seem SUPER forced.

any or all human characters it could work fine with though. there isnt a single human character that i'd be upset about being an s/s romance. well except ones that dont make sense like mshep and captain anderson, or fshep and dr chawkwas, since well. creepy (would think its creepy if it was straight too lol)

[jlb524]

Clonedzero wrote...

with any of the aliens though, you'd have to do some explaining on why the hell they're attracted to shepard and why shepards attracted to them, and why the relationship makes any sense.

Not really.  They didn't explain it in ME2 and have thus already set a precedent for it.  Why would they have to explain (on a species level) why a quarian, Tali, is interested in human women when they didn't have to explain it for a male human?

Modifié par jlb524, 10 août 2011 - 04:58 .

[Twizz089]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

Using this same logic is ok for for BW to use reuse environments throughout the game's side quest because its  economically feasible and the majority of fans dont even finsh the content?  If your going to add a feature, dont half do it.  I would rather less more immersive features then a large amount of shallow features with little depth.  For example, instead of adding the kinect, they could have spent those reasources on strengthening a feature (like side quest, romance is a "side quest" after all) that is already in the game.

It is not my job as a consumer to decide what is economically feasible for a company, it is my job as consumer to demand the best product possible, and offer feedback on what I feel needs to be improved.

Out of curiousity, why is have you started with sexual orientation as the pain point of feedback, rather than personality, or other factors you cited? Wouldn't getting the romances accepted or rejected based on personality be *more* immersive than based on sexual orientation, as well as less politically-charged? I think everyone would agree that a personality-based romance acceptance/rejection would be much more welcome.

I agree, I think a personality-based romance system is the way to go, but how is a person's sexual orientiation not part of their personality?  Earlier I defined personality, explain how sexual orientaion is not a behavior trait that falls under that category?

[Abispa]

jlb524 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
i dont think a "coming out" storyline is all that good for a game like mass effect. seems like it would take away from all the cool crazyness of the sci-fi universe.

No one has to come out though.

Looking at Ashley, from an in-game perspective, she doesn't have to 'come out' and explain to FemShep why she went for a dude in ME1 but not FemShep because this 'dude' (MaleShep) doesn't exist in FemShep's universe.

I don't think there needs to be a meta-explanation for this either.

I have been cutting people slack on this because even a s/s sympathizer like myself has come to the table thinking that there should be an in-game explanation of a character's s/s availability, but have been convinced by this very argument that none is needed since Ashley has never hit on a male Shepard in the female Shepard's universe. The same could be said for Tali since, in the female Shepard storyline, she hasn't spent an entire game being a Beiber groupie for the male Shepard.

[Clonedzero]

jlb524 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

with any of the aliens though, you'd have to do some explaining on why the hell they're attracted to shepard and why shepards attracted to them, and why the relationship makes any sense.

Not really.  They didn't explain it in ME2 and have thus already set a precedent for it.  Why would they have to explain (on a species level) why a quarian, Tali, is interested in human women when they didn't have to explain it for a male human?

you assume how they handled team dextros romances in ME2 is acceptable. how cute.

no. those romances already make no sense. further investing romance options into them is only going to make it worse.

do we even know if turians can even be gay/bi? or quarians? how would the relationship even work? how would male shepard and garrus have sex? if the romance brings up tons of crazy questions like that then its best not to do it.

if ashley is bi, the only real question that comes up is "why wasnt she intested in femshep in ME1 but was interested in maleshep?". everything else makes sense.

dont you see the problem? or are you so blindly pro-s/s romances that you want them all to be s/s even when it makes absolutely no sense and raises tons of lore-breaking questions that never get answered.

[Twizz089]

jlb524 wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

Using this same logic is ok for for BW to use reuse environments throughout the game's side quest because its economically feasible and the majority of fans dont even finsh the content?  If your going to add a feature, dont half do it.  I would rather less more immersive features then a large amount of shallow features with little depth.  For example, instead of adding the kinect, they could have spent those reasources on strengthening a feature (like side quest, romance is a "side quest" after all) that is already in the game.

It is not my job as a consumer to decide what is economically feasible for a company, it is my job as consumer to demand the best product possible, and offer feedback on what I feel needs to be improved.

I personally don't mind the reuse of areas (it's understandable and others do it as well).

It isn't your job to decide but it is theirs...they are a business with limited time and resources.  They can't spend unlimited time and money on games to please every single fan.  You're more than welcome to give feedback, but don't expect them to listen to everything you suggest.

You will also need to explain to me how BW's current system leads to shallow romances...I don't just mean the 'all bi LI' thing, but romances in which the PC's class, morality, etc. mean little.

Did you enjoy any of the ME romances?

"They can't spend unlimited time and money on games to please every single fan.  You're more than welcome to give feedback, but don't expect them to listen to everything you suggest."

So the gay community should be ignored for the sake of resources?  They are the minority after all, lets not waste time and resources on them.

Is it a crime to ask for depth and improvement to the in game features? Isnt that one of the reasons for a forum?


I dislike the ME romances because they were far too easy and shallow because the player always wins.  There was one good "romance" in the game were you had to actually know something about the character in order to spark their interest.  (morinth) 

I want s/s options in the game, I think its a big step in the right direction.  But I also want a character's sexuality to mean something, I want it to used as a tool in helping to shape that character and not be tacked on as an after thought. 

Modifié par Twizz089, 10 août 2011 - 05:14 .

[jlb524]

Twizz089 wrote...

I agree, I think a personality-based romance system is the way to go, but how is a person's sexual orientiation not part of their personality?  Earlier I defined personality, explain how sexual orientaion is not a behavior trait that falls under that category?

Is preferring red-heads a personality trait?  Is asexuality a personality trait?  Is having red-hair a personality trait?

I've studied some psychology in college and we did discuss 'personality traits'.  I don't recall sexuality or preferences being included.

Sexuality (as well as having red-hair) is a trait but not a personality trait.

A trait is simply a characteristic of an object.

Personality traits are specific types of traits that deal with an individual's psychology (Are they typically aggressive?  Introverted?  Agreeable?  etc.)

Clonedzero wrote...
you assume how they handled team dextros romances in ME2 is acceptable. how cute.

I assume nothing.  I don't think those romances were handled well at all.  However, I find it odd for them to not explain it with one gender human but do so with the other.  

Modifié par jlb524, 10 août 2011 - 05:16 .

[Twizz089]

jlb524 wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

I agree, I think a personality-based romance system is the way to go, but how is a person's sexual orientiation not part of their personality?  Earlier I defined personality, explain how sexual orientaion is not a behavior trait that falls under that category?

Is preferring red-heads a personality trait?  Is asexuality a personality trait?  Is having red-hair a personality trait?

I've studied some psychology in college and we did discuss 'personality traits'.  I don't recall sexuality or preferences being included.

Sexuality (as well as having red-hair) is a trait but not a personality trait.

A trait is simply a characteristic of an object.

Personality traits are specific types of traits that deal with an individual's psychology (Are they typically aggressive?  Introverted?  Agreeable?  etc.)

Sexuality is a behavoiral trait and behavoiral traits make up a persons personality

[jlb524]

Twizz089 wrote...

"They can't spend unlimited time and money on games to please every single fan.  You're more than welcome to give feedback, but don't expect them to listen to everything you suggest."

So the gay community should be ignored for the sake of resources?  They are the minority after all, lets not waste time and resources on them.

Is it a crime to ask for depth and improvement to the in game features? Isnt that one of the reasons for a forum?

This is not what I'm saying.  They do (thankfully) make content to appeal to a minority of gamers.  If the didn't, there would be no romances, no Engineer class, etc.   However, individuals in that minority will never be 100% pleased with everything in the game.  Individuals in a 'majority' will never be 100% pleased with everything in the game.  They can't completely please every single fan....that would take forever...that is what I'm saying.  I'm surely displeased with loads of stuff in ME.

I also never said it was a 'crime' to ask for stuff in the game or complain about things.  I'm not sure where you are getting that.    All I am saying is don't come on here expecting the devs will listen to everything you say. 

Twizz089 wrote...

I dislike the ME romances because they were far too easy and shallow because the player always wins.  There was one good "romance" in the game were you had to actually know something about the character in order to spark their interest.  (morinth) 

I want s/s options in the game, I think its a big step in the right direction.  But I also want a character's sexuality to mean something, I want it to used as a tool in helping to shape that character and not be tacked on as an after thought. 

So you have a problem with BW romances in general? (this problem also crops up in every other BW game)  I don't know what to say...this is the way they do them.  I doubt they will change it as most romance fans seem pleased with this system (there's a whole forum subsection dedicated to character romances).

I'm still not sure why you are targeting the s/s stuff specifically and not say, all the other romance threads in this forum.

I also don't know if you realize how real-life sexuality works.  You say it should mean something and not feel tacked on...does this apply to heterosexual characters as well?  How should they show this?

Twizz089 wrote...

Sexuality is a behavoiral trait and behavoiral traits make up a persons personality

What about the other things I mentioned?  Are they a part of personality too?  (preferring red-heads, being asexual).

Or even, having blue as your favorite color...what is that called?

Modifié par jlb524, 10 août 2011 - 05:29 .

[Arik7]

Twizz089 wrote...
If the characters truly had their own morals they would not change their sexuality based on my choices.

Changing sexuality would involve a character stating that they are not interested in members of the same sex, and then turning around and romancing a player of the same sex.  This does not happen in DA2.  Mind you, it does happen in real life.  

Twizz089 wrote...
" it's not realitic for the player to have only one choice of LI or none, regardless of your sexual orientation"
So its more realistic for the characters to be bi or straight or gay depending on who you as the player play as?

Every player has a different reality, thus there's no contradiction.  Just like you customize your main character, there's nothing wrong with limited customization of your team members.   BioWare does change a few variablables in the your game Universe depending on your character and his choices, in order to make the game more ejoyable for the player.  For example, if your character is a mage, your mage sister dies, while your warrior brother remains alive.  If your character is a warrior, those variables are reversed.  There's nothing wrong with that.

"DA2 had the most resourse efficient and most importantly, fun, romance system "
DA2 had the most unbelievable romance system.  It felt like a big orgy, Everyone was throwing themselves at me.

Only TWO squad members initiate flirting with you.  If you are interested, they'll have a fully clothed kiss with you on a bed....  That's your BIG ORGY?  Dude.....?

Modifié par Arik7, 10 août 2011 - 05:44 .

[Abispa]

Having sex with a Quarian breaks established lore. Having that same Quarian interested in female Shepard is no more a violation than the male. That horse is already out of the barn.

In the case of Ashley or Kaidan, there is no lore to break, only the assumptions made by the player.

I ASSUME that Miranda is either 1) a weak woman lacking convictions to any principle that doesn't give her immediate gratification, or 2) a Cerberus double-agent ready to stab Shepard in the back. Those story-lines formed in my head as MY reaction to how Bioware has introduced her character.

I've been to the Miranda support threads and tried to debate my ASSUMPTIONS and, not surprisingly, was immediately challenged by other players who have made other more positive ASSUMPTIONS on Miranda and plan to live happily ever after with her.

If Bioware doesn't have an epic meltdown or betrayal storyline for Miranda in ME3, I will be disappointed that my ASSUMPTIONS weren't realized, but Bioware is under no obligation to write Miranda in any way other than how THEY see her. If they make her a "happily ever after" lover, straight, bi or gay, that is their choice.

The same could be said for my favorite, Ashley. I am a straight male who has no real desire to have a HAWT lesbian relationship with her, but I don't mind other players getting "their" version of Ashley IF BIOWARE DECIDES TO GIVE HER TO THEM. And I don't know how many people I've argued with about their ASSUMPTION (they call it "lore") that Ashley is some poetry spouting racist religious nut.