25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Clonedzero]

jlb524 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
you assume how they handled team dextros romances in ME2 is acceptable. how cute.

I assume nothing.  I don't think those romances were handled well at all.  However, I find it odd for them to not explain it with one gender human but do so with the other.  

so two wrongs now make a right? what horrible thinking this is.

well they did one thing that makes no sense and breaks all the established lore and story, LETS DO IT AGAIN! HAHA!

ugh....

[Abispa]

Arik7 wrote...

Only TWO squad members initiate flirting with you.  If you are interested, they'll have a fully clothed kiss with you on a bed....  That's your BIG ORGY?  Dude.....?

Chill, Arik7, don't crush his dreams and aspirations like that.

[bleetman]

I can't say I ever felt that any of the four love interests in DA2 being interested in Hawke of either gender felt at all contradictory to their characters. One is openly bi-sexual, one is part romantic idealist, part emotional calamity, one has lost or been ostracized by everyone she ever cared about, and the other is... hell, I can't even begin to assume what his preference may or may not be. He's alone and on the run and has been for years, in any event. That all four respond positively to Hawke's affections isn't surprising, contradictory or unrealistic for who they are.

Modifié par bleetman, 10 août 2011 - 05:42 .

[jlb524]

Clonedzero wrote...
so two wrongs now make a right? what horrible thinking this is.

well they did one thing that makes no sense and breaks all the established lore and story, LETS DO IT AGAIN! HAHA!

ugh....

They love breaking established lore for convenience sake.  If that bothers you so much, I'm not sure why you continue supporting this franchise.

The entire ME2 story revolves around this (Cerberus, magic Shepard Jesus, etc.) but you seem to only be concerned about what's going down (or who's going down) in Shepard's bedroom....I find that somewhat humorous.  Who Shepard can bed is the least of my concern as far as 'lore destruction' goes.  Because I have the option not to bed Garrus...

Modifié par jlb524, 10 août 2011 - 05:42 .

[Twizz089]

jlb524 wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

"They can't spend unlimited time and money on games to please every single fan.  You're more than welcome to give feedback, but don't expect them to listen to everything you suggest."

So the gay community should be ignored for the sake of resources?  They are the minority after all, lets not waste time and resources on them.

Is it a crime to ask for depth and improvement to the in game features? Isnt that one of the reasons for a forum?

This is not what I'm saying.  They do (thankfully) make content to appeal to a minority of gamers.  If the didn't, there would be no romances, no Engineer class, etc.   However, individuals in that minority will never be 100% pleased with everything in the game.  Individuals in a 'majority' will never be 100% pleased with everything in the game.  They can't completely please every single fan....that would take forever...that is what I'm saying.  I'm surely displeased with loads of stuff in ME.

I also never said it was a 'crime' to ask for stuff in the game or complain about things.  I'm not sure where you are getting that.    All I am saying is don't come on here expecting the devs will listen to everything you say. 

Twizz089 wrote...

I dislike the ME romances because they were far too easy and shallow because the player always wins.  There was one good "romance" in the game were you had to actually know something about the character in order to spark their interest.  (morinth) 

I want s/s options in the game, I think its a big step in the right direction.  But I also want a character's sexuality to mean something, I want it to used as a tool in helping to shape that character and not be tacked on as an after thought. 

So you have a problem with BW romances in general? (this problem also crops up in every other BW game)  I don't know what to say...this is the way they do them.  I doubt they will change it as most romance fans seem pleased with this system (there's a whole forum subsection dedicated to character romances).

I'm still not sure why you are targeting the s/s stuff specifically and not say, all the other romance threads in this forum.

I also don't know if you realize how real-life sexuality works.  You say it should mean something and not feel tacked on...does this apply to heterosexual characters as well?  How should they show this?

Twizz089 wrote...

Sexuality is a behavoiral trait and behavoiral traits make up a persons personality

What about the other things I mentioned?  Are they a part of personality too?  (preferring red-heads, being asexual).

Or even, having blue as your favorite color...what is that called?

If you think a persons unique sexuality doesnt help define them and cant be used in fiction to develop more believable and unique characters then we can agree to disagree. 

And the other things you mentioned are also aspects of behavior.  Some behavior is innate others are learned.  I like to believe a person's sexuallity is an innate behavior therefore it helps to make up a person's personality which is simply a person's unique patteren of behavioral characteristics.

[Arik7]

Twizz089 wrote...
If you think a persons unique sexuality doesnt help define them and cant be used in fiction to develop more believable and unique characters then we can agree to disagree. 

And the other things you mentioned are also aspects of behavior.  Some behavior is innate others are learned.  I like to believe a person's sexuallity is an innate behavior therefore it helps to make up a person's personality which is simply a person's unique patteren of behavioral characteristics.

The point of an RPG video game is customization, and the ability to create your own story.  If you want stricly defined characters and events, go read a book. 

Modifié par Arik7, 10 août 2011 - 05:46 .

[shepskisaac]

Montezuma IV wrote...

What's New?!! What was said? Why are people arguing? I've been gone for a while....

Absolutely nothing new lol Same arguments as always...

[Abispa]

Clonedzero wrote...

also, 200-something years in the future where theres space aliens, and relationships between humans and aliens, and all sorts of weird stuff like that. why would anyone bother to hide their sexuality? i doubt theres any social or cultural taboos about it that far into the future.

Unfortunately, the ME universe is NOT entirely friendly to s/s relationships. As Nef and Kelly both demonstrated, humans in the ME universe have a very bizarre sense of what's fully exceptable sexual behavior. Nef thinks that she is a "freak" because she's attracted to Morinth. NOT because she's an alien, but because she is a "woman like me." If Shepard asks Kelly if she's into aliens, she'll say yes, she is, and that she is completely willing to be intimate with another species and, if that wasn't enough to freak you out, even the same gender! Getting groped by a Hanar isn't as shocking as being groped by another woman apparently.

Even the Asari, who have spend centuries as a lesbian only society before space travel, are depicted as prefering the males of other species than the females, AND THEY EVEN HAVE A SOCIAL STIGMA ATTACHED TO ASARI/ASARI RELATIONSHIPS! A lesbian race finds lesbian romances rare and immoral. Wow, that's twisted!

[jlb524]

Twizz089 wrote...
If you think a persons unique sexuality doesnt help define them and cant be used in fiction to develop more believable and unique characters then we can agree to disagree. 

I don't think it should necessarily any more than my preference for brunettes or love of the color black should in a story.  I will say, unless it's important for some reason.  If character X (a lover of the color red) moves to a town that hates the color and has outlawed it, then that character's red-loving is important to the story.  In most narratives, it will not be, of course.

I don't see how sexuality would matter within the ME narrative, be it bisexual, heterosexual, etc. so I don't think it should 'mean' anything.

Twizz089 wrote...
And the other things you mentioned are also aspects of behavior.  Some behavior is innate others are learned.  I like to believe a person's sexuallity is an innate behavior therefore it helps to make up a person's personality which is simply a person's unique patteren of behavioral characteristics.

I actually agree with you to an extent.  The point I'm getting at is that there are many many many traits that make up one character (personality traits, behavioral traits, etc.) and the vast majority of them have no effect on the narrative in game because they are trivial....thus we never see them or hear about them.   I am arguing that sexuality is one of them, just like Ashley's preference for blondes (I made that up just so you know).   We can never know every trait about these characters and they only show us the important stuff.

[Abispa]

Montezuma IV wrote...

What's New?!! What was said? Why are people arguing? I've been gone for a while....

I don't know since I can't remember where you left us. Did you catch our dozen or so pages on Vega and Bioware fans' desire to see more and improved depiction of asses in video games?

[jwalker]

Twizz089 wrote...


I agree, I think a personality-based romance system is the way to go, but how is a person's sexual orientiation not part of their personality?  Earlier I defined personality, explain how sexual orientaion is not a behavior trait that falls under that category?

You can define personality the way you want. There are many definitions. Thank you.

But the way I see it, being gay, hetero or bi adds nothing to the personality.
You can say "A" is extrovert. Cool. You can form a picture of that person already. Then you know that "A" is an obsesive perfectionist. Your picture of that person changes

Then you know that person is hetero. What changes ? Nothing. Oops. Not hetero, gay. What changes ? Nothing again. My picture of that person it's the same. Whatever opinion or whatever predictions I could make aren't not modified by sexual preference

Twizz089 wrote...
Sexuality is a behavoiral trait and behavoiral traits make up a persons personality

Extrovert hetero dude goes to a party. He will hit on the first woman available.
Extrovert gay dude goes to a party. He will hit on the first dude available.

What's the difference ? None.
You're prediction on their behavior it's the same. They're  both going to hit on the first person available to them. That's what's matters.

[Arik7]

Clonedzero wrote...
also, 200-something years in the future where theres space aliens, and relationships between humans and aliens, and all sorts of weird stuff like that. why would anyone bother to hide their sexuality? i doubt theres any social or cultural taboos about it that far into the future.

I agree that it shouldn't be an issue in 200 years, but that's not quite the case in the Mass Effect Universe, where the Shadow Broker has a vid of Praetor Gavorn apparently having a private encounter with a human male. *gasp* What a scandal....

Modifié par Arik7, 10 août 2011 - 06:02 .

[Clonedzero]

jlb524 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
so two wrongs now make a right? what horrible thinking this is.

well they did one thing that makes no sense and breaks all the established lore and story, LETS DO IT AGAIN! HAHA!

ugh....

They love breaking established lore for convenience sake.  If that bothers you so much, I'm not sure why you continue supporting this franchise.

The entire ME2 story revolves around this (Cerberus, magic Shepard Jesus, etc.) but you seem to only be concerned about what's going down (or who's going down) in Shepard's bedroom....I find that somewhat humorous.  Who Shepard can bed is the least of my concern as far as 'lore destruction' goes.  Because I have the option not to bed Garrus...

well im not bringing up any other issues i have with the games here because thats not what this thread is about. why the hell would i start talking about any of that in this thread when its specifically about s/s romances? im not an idiot.

also your two examples of "lore destruction" arent. cerberus isn't breaking any lore whatsoever, and how is them bringing shepard back to life "lore destruction"?

this thread is about the s/s romances. im discussing the lore breaking possiblities of some of those s/s romances. you're saying thats my only issue with breaking lore. you are wrong. i'm not going to go on wildly off-topic rants about other lore issues in the s/s romance thread. im going to bring up the lore issues concerning the s/s romances in the s/s romance thread.

make sense now?

god damn BSN......

[Clonedzero]

Arik7 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
also, 200-something years in the future where theres space aliens, and relationships between humans and aliens, and all sorts of weird stuff like that. why would anyone bother to hide their sexuality? i doubt theres any social or cultural taboos about it that far into the future.

I agree that it shouldn't be an issue in 200 years, but that's not quite the case in the Mass Effect Universe, where the Shadow Broker has a vid of Prietor Gavorn apparently having a private encounter with a human male. *gasp* What a scandal....

because a vague video clip tells you everything about the context of why that might be damaging to him? perhaps the guy is a rival and the two factions might get mad? perhaps there are political implications? perhaps a dozen other reasons.

i doubt anyones going to go "OMG GAVORNS GAY?! THATS HORRIBLE!" in the mass effect universe. it makes no sense. out of context tid bit video clips are just that, out of context.

[Arik7]

Clonedzero wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
also, 200-something years in the future where theres space aliens, and relationships between humans and aliens, and all sorts of weird stuff like that. why would anyone bother to hide their sexuality? i doubt theres any social or cultural taboos about it that far into the future.

I agree that it shouldn't be an issue in 200 years, but that's not quite the case in the Mass Effect Universe, where the Shadow Broker has a vid of Prietor Gavorn apparently having a private encounter with a human male. *gasp* What a scandal....

because a vague video clip tells you everything about the context of why that might be damaging to him? perhaps the guy is a rival and the two factions might get mad? perhaps there are political implications? perhaps a dozen other reasons.

You must have read BioWare's mind....  that's exactly what they meant... 

[Clonedzero]

Arik7 wrote...


You must have read BioWare's mind....  that's exactly what they meant... 

sure, take a couple second long easter egg video clip as a defning example of the galaxies opinion on s/s relationships rofl that doesnt seem crazy or stupid at all!

[Erani]

I sense an argument going on but don't really know why...

[MACharlie1]

Erani wrote...

I sense an argument going on but don't really know why...

Because Same-Sex causes nerd rage. 

[jlb524]

Clonedzero wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
also, 200-something years in the future where theres space aliens, and relationships between humans and aliens, and all sorts of weird stuff like that. why would anyone bother to hide their sexuality? i doubt theres any social or cultural taboos about it that far into the future.

I agree that it shouldn't be an issue in 200 years, but that's not quite the case in the Mass Effect Universe, where the Shadow Broker has a vid of Prietor Gavorn apparently having a private encounter with a human male. *gasp* What a scandal....

because a vague video clip tells you everything about the context of why that might be damaging to him? perhaps the guy is a rival and the two factions might get mad? perhaps there are political implications? perhaps a dozen other reasons.

i doubt anyones going to go "OMG GAVORNS GAY?! THATS HORRIBLE!" in the mass effect universe. it makes no sense. out of context tid bit video clips are just that, out of context.

I agree that we don't know if homosexuality is taboo at all in the future.

The Shadow Broker had vids of Udina going to strip clubs as well.

I disagree with the assumption that anyone is hiding their sexuality...as I've said, from an in-game perspective, they wouldn't be. 

Clonedzero wrote...
well im not bringing up any other issues i have with the games here because thats not what this thread is about.  why the hell would i start talking about any of that in this thread when its specifically about s/s romances? im not an idiot.

But talking about how 'lore breaking' the Garrus/Tali o/s romances is on topic? 

Strictly, it isn't.

Modifié par jlb524, 10 août 2011 - 06:13 .

[Abispa]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Erani wrote...

I sense an argument going on but don't really know why...

Because Same-Sex causes nerd rage. 

Whatever it takes to keep this thread alive. I mean, I go to Tim Hortons twice a week and none of you guys ever show up there, so...

[shepskisaac]

Abispa wrote...

I go to Tim Hortons twice a week

What's that? 

[Abispa]

IsaacShep wrote...

Abispa wrote...

I go to Tim Hortons twice a week

What's that? 

http://www.timhorton...menu/lunch.html

[shepskisaac]

Abispa wrote...

http://www.timhorton...menu/lunch.html

Thanks... Now I'm hungry again