25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Clonedzero]

Twizz089 wrote...

Cartims wrote...

I like my snarky comments, just like I like my S/S romances, sorry, you can't do a thing about it.

If you want to participate in this discussion you can at least be constructive.

some people are just hateful and hostile for no real reason i guess.

[TheMarshal]

Clonedzero wrote...

thats not what i said. i said them hitting on you would be. not the other way around, big difference.

You're right.  Misread the quote tree.  So are you okay with player-initiated s/s romance options?

[ScotGaymer]

Is Twizz still rattling on about how sexuality is a part of a persons personality (as apposed to being a genetic fact about a person that helps shape their personality?) and it being a choice and "all the DA2 LIs are BI!!!11!!1!" and all that jazz?

[Twizz089]

There is nothing wrong with s/s romance in game. I feel it is a good thing. I would however prefer a system were the character's sexuality is a constant and not a varaible. I think this would make the options avaliable more rewarding and feel less generic. You have a greater chance of depth with less content then more content. However if the quick fix option is chosen, its only fair if it is player initiated. That way others players versions of characters can stay true to them. The problem with DA2 was that simply being nice equalled flirting, and then the characters starting hiting on you. We need a more obvious flirting system. I dont want Kaiden or Garrus to turn guy because I am nice.

[Twizz089]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Is Twizz still rattling on about how sexuality is a part of a persons personality (as apposed to being a genetic fact about a person that helps shape their personality?) and it being a choice and "all the DA2 LIs are BI!!!11!!1!" and all that jazz?

When did I ever say that being gay was a choice?  I believe that sexuality is an innate behavior which by definition makes it part of a person's personality.

Modifié par Twizz089, 10 août 2011 - 11:43 .

[Arik7]

Twizz089 wrote...

There is nothing wrong with s/s romance in game. I feel it is a good thing. I would however prefer a system were the character's sexuality is a constant and not a varaible. I think this would make the options avaliable more rewarding and feel less generic. You have a greater chance of depth with less content then more content. However if the quick fix option is chosen, its only fair if it is player initiated. That way others players versions of characters can stay true to them. The problem with DA2 was that simply being nice equalled flirting, and then the characters starting hiting on you. We need a more obvious flirting system. I dont want Kaiden or Garrus to turn guy because I am nice.

 The heart icons were supposed to fix that.  The idea was conceived in one of these threads and implemented by BioWare.

[FKA_Servo]

Twizz089 wrote...
 The problem with DA2 was that simply being nice equalled flirting, and then the characters starting hiting on you. We need a more obvious flirting system. I dont want Kaiden or Garrus to turn guy because I am nice.

In DA2, with one isolated, Anders-shaped exception, flirting equalled flirting. Nice "friendship" paths are completely separate and clearly notable for the absence of the big heart symbol.

I agree that ME3 should have the flirt button though - that was great.

[Clonedzero]

TheMarshal wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

thats not what i said. i said them hitting on you would be. not the other way around, big difference.

You're right.  Misread the quote tree.  So are you okay with player-initiated s/s romance options?

absolutely. for established characters that is.

for new ones, the character can attempt to initiate them.

that way no one is forced to have a weird version of a chracter they've had for the whole series already that goes against their entire perception of the character thus far.

[FKA_Servo]

Clonedzero wrote...
absolutely. for established characters that is.

for new ones, the character can attempt to initiate them.

that way no one is forced to have a weird version of a chracter they've had for the whole series already that goes against their entire perception of the character thus far.

It's fun when it takes page upon page of arguing to determine that you agree with someone.

Although, I'd still be ok with every damn character hitting on me, because I don't have any problems friendzoning them. But I can go with player initiated.

This is just proof that quote pyramids foster misunderstanding and should be avoided.

[Sunnie]

Clonedzero wrote...

she insulted me, i told her not to. i didnt even say anything to her. so please, dont suggest that i started anything there.

Unless I am seeing things in a different forum, I didn't see her put any names or even imply any one person. Seems to me that you self-inserted yourself into her statement. Might want to rethink how you really feel about this subject before you go on and say something you really don't want.

[Clonedzero]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

she insulted me, i told her not to. i didnt even say anything to her. so please, dont suggest that i started anything there.

Unless I am seeing things in a different forum, I didn't see her put any names or even imply any one person. Seems to me that you self-inserted yourself into her statement. Might want to rethink how you really feel about this subject before you go on and say something you really don't want.

well either she meant me or someone else.
either way, she's insulting someone for no reason.

[Sunnie]

Clonedzero wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

she insulted me, i told her not to. i didnt even say anything to her. so please, dont suggest that i started anything there.

Unless I am seeing things in a different forum, I didn't see her put any names or even imply any one person. Seems to me that you self-inserted yourself into her statement. Might want to rethink how you really feel about this subject before you go on and say something you really don't want.

well either she meant me or someone else.
either way, she's insulting someone for no reason.

You think that was insulting? I thought it was just a snarky comment that maybe someone really hasn't decided what they wanted in a relationship. There are plenty of cases where people were unsure about their sexuality, and went to extremes to deny what they are told is "bad bad bad".

Also...

for established characters that is.

for new ones, the character can attempt to initiate them.

That's a little one way isn't it? I have some pretty extensive hours playing both ME and ME2 and I can't think of a single character that is "established hetero". Either give us ALL a choice, or take ALL of it OUT. You can't have it just one way.

Modifié par Sunnie22, 10 août 2011 - 11:57 .

[shepskisaac]

Clonedzero wrote...
]absolutely. for established characters that is.

for new ones, the character can attempt to initiate them.

that way no one is forced to have a weird version of a chracter they've had for the whole series already that goes against their entire perception of the character thus far.

Not sure if I understand. If Kaidan mentions Vega's handsome it will be cool with you as long as he doesn't hit on your straight Shep (since he didn't in ME1), right?

[jlb524]

Twizz089 wrote...

There is nothing wrong with s/s romance in game. I feel it is a good thing. I would however prefer a system were the character's sexuality is a constant and not a varaible. I think this would make the options avaliable more rewarding and feel less generic. You have a greater chance of depth with less content then more content. However if the quick fix option is chosen, its only fair if it is player initiated. That way others players versions of characters can stay true to them. The problem with DA2 was that simply being nice equalled flirting, and then the characters starting hiting on you. We need a more obvious flirting system. I dont want Kaiden or Garrus to turn guy because I am nice.

*sighs*

Here we go again with the 'generic' thing.  Why do you have to keep tying 'generic' to s/s romances when it's a problem with o/s ones too?  Do we have to go down this route again?

I'm not sure what DA2 game you played, but being nice =/= flirting for me in all cases but that one time with Anders.

[TheMarshal]

Clonedzero wrote...

absolutely. for established characters that is.

for new ones, the character can attempt to initiate them.

that way no one is forced to have a weird version of a chracter they've had for the whole series already that goes against their entire perception of the character thus far.

But if the romances/fliratation are player-initiated (preferrably marked with a big-ol' <3 icon), then how would anyone be 'forced' to have a 'weird' version of a character?

I'll deftly ignore the part where you consider someone admitting that they'd be open to a s/s romance to be so earth-shattering that it completely destroys the entirety of their character in someone's eyes.

[Clonedzero]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

she insulted me, i told her not to. i didnt even say anything to her. so please, dont suggest that i started anything there.

Unless I am seeing things in a different forum, I didn't see her put any names or even imply any one person. Seems to me that you self-inserted yourself into her statement. Might want to rethink how you really feel about this subject before you go on and say something you really don't want.

well either she meant me or someone else.
either way, she's insulting someone for no reason.

You think that was insulting? I thought it was just a snarky comment that maybe someone really hasn't decided what they wanted in a relationship. There are plenty of cases where people were unsure about their sexuality, and went to extremes to deny what they are told is "bad bad bad".

Also...

for established characters that is.

for new ones, the character can attempt to initiate them.

That's a little one way isn't it? I have some pretty extensive hours playing both ME and ME2 and I can't think of a single character that is "established hetero". Either give us ALL a choice, or take ALL of it OUT. You can't have it just one way.

what? you should probably reread what i said.
i was saying for established characters with new s/s romance options, it should have to be initiated by the player to start any form of romantic dialogue. that way people who want the s/s romance get it, and people who want the character to remain straight get that as well.

for new characters, the new character can attempt to start a romance because they havent been in the game and had the assumtion of them being straight made about them.

no real downside to that, other than if you wanted a REALLY specific way to start the s/s romance lol

[Twizz089]

Sunnie22 wrote...

That's a little one way isn't it? I have some pretty extensive hours playing both ME and ME2 and I can't think of a single character that is "established hetero". Either give us ALL a choice, or take ALL of it OUT. You can't have it both ways.

The system of player activated s/s romance will allow both sides to get what they want.  The people who believe the characters to be hetero can keep them as such and the players that want the same sex option can pick it.  If the normandy becomes a "coming out party" that is not activated by the player then you force players to change their vision of the character.  My version of Kaiden is not gay.  It is however ok for the new characters like Vega to be bi since noone has created their version of him yet.

[Quething]

WRT Fenris: that first dialog kind of *is* bad writing, I think. They shouldn't have put the broken heart on the "no ****** bro" option. It should have just been "thank him/flirt with him/tell him you don't accept compliments from mage-hating douchebags." Because what he says to you is not remotely a flirt, but apparently if you allow Hawke to treat it that way some people will think Hawke is right. It's like that ME1 conversation where Shepard can ask Liara if asari can have children with each other. Why even give the PC the option to be stupid? You're just encouraging players to take it.

And let me segue that into a hope for ME3: you don't really need heart/broken heart icons, or different colored text, or anything that takes any familiarity to interpret. And you certainly don't need ME2's absurdly over-the-top totally inaccurate paraphrases ("I want you, Thane"? Really? In what universe does that phrase have the barest relation to what Shep actually says?). You just need a little bracketed [flirt] before the paraphrase. Like the bracketed [shoot him] stuff. It's really clear, everyone understands it instinctively, and you don't actually ever need the option to explicitly turn someone down, since not taking the [flirt] option would already be understood as that.

[Clonedzero]

TheMarshal wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

absolutely. for established characters that is.

for new ones, the character can attempt to initiate them.

that way no one is forced to have a weird version of a chracter they've had for the whole series already that goes against their entire perception of the character thus far.

But if the romances/fliratation are player-initiated (preferrably marked with a big-ol' <3 icon), then how would anyone be 'forced' to have a 'weird' version of a character?

I'll deftly ignore the part where you consider someone admitting that they'd be open to a s/s romance to be so earth-shattering that it completely destroys the entirety of their character in someone's eyes.

im not disagreeing with you lol. if the romances are player inititated with the established characters then everythings great, dont even need a big heart icon, you can just make the text super obvious lol.

but yes, i see garrus as shepards best friend and war buddy, having like a brotherly relationship. if garrus openly hit on shepard then it would ruin that whole friendship to me. a huge portion of garrus fans feel the exact same way. whats wrong with that?

[MACharlie1]

Twizz089 wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

That's a little one way isn't it? I have some pretty extensive hours playing both ME and ME2 and I can't think of a single character that is "established hetero". Either give us ALL a choice, or take ALL of it OUT. You can't have it both ways.

The system of player activated s/s romance will allow both sides to get what they want.  The people who believe the characters to be hetero can keep them as such and the players that want the same sex option can pick it.  If the normandy becomes a "coming out party" that is not activated by the player then you force players to change their vision of the character.  My version of Kaiden is not gay.  It is however ok for the new characters like Vega to be bi since noone has created their version of him yet.

Theres nothing wrong with what your proposing but the way it's done is...bleeee. 

"Your version"? Sorry - there's only one character whose yours and his/her name is Shepard. 

[jlb524]

I have no idea what you are saying anymore, Clonedzero...you keep jumping all around.

It seems you agree with most here one time, then disagree another.

[Clonedzero]

jlb524 wrote...

I have no idea what you are saying anymore, Clonedzero...you keep jumping all around.

It seems you agree with most here one time, then disagree another.

nah, im fairly consistant.

alien/human romances regardless of orienation are dumb and even dispite them already being in the game, i dont want anymore added.

human characters work pretty well as s/s bi options.

if characters sexuality will be determined by the player, then make them what they've appeared to be in previous titles (in most cases, straight). until the player initiates s/s romance dialogue.

established characters are bad choices for s/s romances, but i understand the desire for them to be included, so as long as its optional and tastefully done its cool with me. (player initiated, ect.)

new characters should be openly bi/gay.

new games / franchises, should have predefined orientations for characters 1/3rd straight, 1/3rd bi, and 1/3rd gay/lesbian. that way everyone is included and writers have complete freedom to fully write detailed backrounds and stuff for them. also avoids all this sorta nonsense where they have to figure out who's good for s/s romances and who's not, if they shoudl all be available or not ect.

[Twizz089]

jlb524 wrote...

*sighs*

Here we go again with the 'generic' thing.  Why do you have to keep tying 'generic' to s/s romances when it's a problem with o/s ones too?  Do we have to go down this route again?

I'm not sure what DA2 game you played, but being nice =/= flirting for me in all cases but that one time with Anders.

What I said was "I would however prefer a system were the character's sexuality is a constant and not a varaible. I think this would make the options avaliable more rewarding and feel less generic. "  This means I dont want every character bi for the sake of quantity.  The more options you have the less developed the options become.  Instead I would prefer a system with less options that are more developed.  If you want to have a gay romance option, fully develop it, the dialouge can only be so complex if they are reused on both male and female sheps.  Not making every character bi will help develop BOTH o/s and s/s romances.

And in DA2 there were times when the broken heart option poped up without selecting the heart option. (They would pop up together at the same time)  This would mean that the chacter in question initiated the flirtation without me first activating it with the heart option no?

[Clonedzero]

Quething wrote...

WRT Fenris: that first dialog kind of *is* bad writing, I think. They shouldn't have put the broken heart on the "no ****** bro" option. It should have just been "thank him/flirt with him/tell him you don't accept compliments from mage-hating douchebags." Because what he says to you is not remotely a flirt, but apparently if you allow Hawke to treat it that way some people will think Hawke is right. It's like that ME1 conversation where Shepard can ask Liara if asari can have children with each other. Why even give the PC the option to be stupid? You're just encouraging players to take it.

And let me segue that into a hope for ME3: you don't really need heart/broken heart icons, or different colored text, or anything that takes any familiarity to interpret. And you certainly don't need ME2's absurdly over-the-top totally inaccurate paraphrases ("I want you, Thane"? Really? In what universe does that phrase have the barest relation to what Shep actually says?). You just need a little bracketed [flirt] before the paraphrase. Like the bracketed [shoot him] stuff. It's really clear, everyone understands it instinctively, and you don't actually ever need the option to explicitly turn someone down, since not taking the [flirt] option would already be understood as that.

i like the bracket idea alot more than the heart icons.

why? because them drastically changing how the dialogue wheel looks for the third game would be absolutely horrible like them randomly putting in a musical mission in the game where everyone is singing the entire time would be better than that.

actually. musical dream sequence where shepard is drugged and having a weird drugged out musical dream? that sounds awesome