25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Dapper Pomegranate]

Siansonea II wrote...

I want this! I want Shep to be able to flirt with anyone, and get shut down constantly. But not just because of gender. I think there should be instances where the genders and sexuality match up just fine, but something else is the dealbreaker (like Shepard being a total douche or a total goody-two-shoes).

Like, trying to romance Kasumi but finding out she's gettin' it on with Jacob, or Samara shutting down a renegade Shep for being too...renegade-y, or Grunt thinking paragon Shep is too soft. Could make for some entertaining dialogues. And very sad Shepards

Modifié par FrozenFire42, 15 juin 2011 - 05:02 .

[Dayshadow]

FrozenFire42 wrote...

Like I've said before, if they keep Kaidan straight I still want my gay Manshep to tell Kaidan he's crazy about him, even if he shuts Shep down.

The Samara Effect

[SennenScale]

Siansonea II wrote...
I want Shep to be able to flirt with anyone, and get shut down constantly. But not just because of gender. I think there should be instances where the genders and sexuality match up just fine, but something else is the dealbreaker (like Shepard being a total douche or a total goody-two-shoes).

YES! THIS! I wish personality would play more into the romances. Jack should be more P'OD if Shepard is a Ceberus lackey, and why should Tali give a racist Shepard the time of day? Just one dealbreaker would add to my immersion, show that the LIs aren't Shepard's toys.

[Ryzaki]

SennenScale wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
I want Shep to be able to flirt with anyone, and get shut down constantly. But not just because of gender. I think there should be instances where the genders and sexuality match up just fine, but something else is the dealbreaker (like Shepard being a total douche or a total goody-two-shoes).

YES! THIS! I wish personality would play more into the romances. Jack should be more P'OD if Shepard is a Ceberus lackey, and why should Tali give a racist Shepard the time of day? Just one dealbreaker would add to my immersion, show that the LIs aren't Shepard's toys.

Yeah Tali trying to be all up in my renedouche's grill when you chewed her out all the first game when "lol no geth data for you!" was racist, and...yeah. It makes no sense she's all later.

[shepskisaac]

Dayshadow wrote...

FrozenFire42 wrote...

Like I've said before, if they keep Kaidan straight I still want my gay Manshep to tell Kaidan he's crazy about him, even if he shuts Shep down.

The Samara Effect

Frankly. I though Samara & Morinth "romances" were great as secondary flings. Original, unpredictable (seriously, everyone thought they'll be able to score these 2 with no problem since they from the always-horny-Asari  race and whatnot ). Perfect extra 'romantic' content with a twist. Now of course there still should be standard full-fledged romances too, but little stuff like this is great as well.

[jeweledleah]

IsaacShep wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
why are you so stuck on the idea "they didn't because they though shepard was straight" ?

Urhm because for Kaidan it's already part of the story. Don't you remember when he says it when FemShep's oriantation is revealed after she gets involved with Liara? you say there wasn't any sign of attraction and why would there be (with Kaidan)? He thinks Shepard is straight = he thinks he has no chance with Shepard since straight guys don't want other guys. It's really simple. Also, as for absolutely no signs of attraction. The Horizon scene is a huge sign of unspoken feelings finally revealed in anger when it comes to Kaidan, for both un-romanced FemShep and ManShep (he says the same thing to both). His words are only slighty different than in the case of consumed romance with FemShep. The tone, anger, everything else is the same in all cases. This scene shows more signs of his attraction than any high-school pick-up line could. Not to mention Tali in ME1 didn't even have that, yet she was written as having exactly 'unspoken feelings' in ME2.

Dayshadow wrote...
With that being said, I respectfully agree to disagree.

So do I, civil conversation like this one never hurt anyone yet 

right, Kaidan also has almost identical dialogue to that of Ashley, with the exception of one phrase - identical dialogue with all Shepards, even if you haven't talked to him on SR1 once, he also has identical animations to Ashley which creates pretty interesting clipping issues. Horizon is a terrible benchmark to judge the character by.  you are latching on to one badly written phrase like its canon.  how about going back to ME1 and going through maleshep conversation paths with Kaidan and then for comparison - going through femshep ones?  ther's a huge difference in just how much he opens up, how much he tells Shepards, etc.  you know why people think that Kaidan is boring?  becasue when you play a maleshep - he barely speaks to you at all.  he's super professional.  I've also heard justifications that Kaidan falls in love after Horizon.  Right.  he doesn't write, he is angry at Shepard for working with terrorisits and yet he falls in love exactly..why?

unspoken crushes. imagine this.  you do not want to romance a character.  so you essentialy want them to suffer unrequitted love becasue you wanted some variation? you want players who just want a bro feel uncomfortable becasue someone they thought a friend is in love with them and they cannot reciprocate those feelings?

Tali's crush is a pet pieve of mine, I would have prefered that they didn't retcon her into having feelings in SR1 because she didn't have any, not to mention you could treat her like dirt, refuse to share the geth evidence, so she now has to start her piligrimage from scratch and yet...she falls in love anyways?  gag me with a spoon. just giving her feelings that develop in SR2 would have removed much of the ridiculousness from her romance and making them develop out of mutual trust instead of taking advantage of her crush would have made it even better.  because now you don't have to feel like you kicked a puppy when you refuse her.

lastly - variety.  who says that there cannot be variety even if you have player always innitiate the romance?  do they HAVe to use exactly the same words or innitiate it exactly the same way?  not really.  eachcharacter has a different history with Shepard already, so its already a different relationship.

edited to add - characters shutting you down, becasue you dont match up personality wise?  that would be damn awesome.  one of my favorite parts about jacob's romance is that he can actualy dump you if you push him to far. 

Modifié par jeweledleah, 15 juin 2011 - 05:11 .

[Siansonea]

FrozenFire42 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I want this! I want Shep to be able to flirt with anyone, and get shut down constantly. But not just because of gender. I think there should be instances where the genders and sexuality match up just fine, but something else is the dealbreaker (like Shepard being a total douche or a total goody-two-shoes).

Like, trying to romance Kasumi but finding out she's gettin' it on with Jacob, or Samara shutting down a renegade Shep for being too...renegade-y, or Grunt thinking paragon Shep is too soft. Could make for some entertaining dialogues. And very sad Shepards

Honestly, I would have a field day with my douchebag skirt-chaser Infiltrator. He would bang any chick that moves, and I'd love for him to go down in flames from time to time. I would lol, most assuredly, I would lol.

[Siansonea]

jeweledleah wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
why are you so stuck on the idea "they didn't because they though shepard was straight" ?

Urhm because for Kaidan it's already part of the story. Don't you remember when he says it when FemShep's oriantation is revealed after she gets involved with Liara? you say there wasn't any sign of attraction and why would there be (with Kaidan)? He thinks Shepard is straight = he thinks he has no chance with Shepard since straight guys don't want other guys. It's really simple. Also, as for absolutely no signs of attraction. The Horizon scene is a huge sign of unspoken feelings finally revealed in anger when it comes to Kaidan, for both un-romanced FemShep and ManShep (he says the same thing to both). His words are only slighty different than in the case of consumed romance with FemShep. The tone, anger, everything else is the same in all cases. This scene shows more signs of his attraction than any high-school pick-up line could. Not to mention Tali in ME1 didn't even have that, yet she was written as having exactly 'unspoken feelings' in ME2.

Dayshadow wrote...
With that being said, I respectfully agree to disagree.

So do I, civil conversation like this one never hurt anyone yet 

right, Kaidan also has almost identical dialogue to that of Ashley, with the exception of one phrase - identical dialogue with all Shepards, even if you haven't talked to him on SR1 once, he also has identical animations to Ashley which creates pretty interesting clipping issues. Horizon is a terrible benchmark to judge the character by.  you are latching on to one badly written phrase like its canon.  how about going back to ME1 and going through maleshep conversation paths with Kaidan and then for comparison - going through femshep ones?  ther's a huge difference in just how much he opens up, how much he tells Shepards, etc.  you know why people think that Kaidan is boring?  becasue when you play a maleshep - he barely speaks to you at all.  he's super professional.  I've also heard justifications that Kaidan falls in love after Horizon.  Right.  he doesn't write, he is angry at Shepard for working with terrorisits and yet he falls in love exactly..why?

unspoken crushes. imagine this.  you do not want to romance a character.  so you essentialy want them to suffer unrequitted love becasue you wanted some variation? you want players who just want a bro feel uncomfortable becasue someone they thought a friend is in love with them and they cannot reciprocate those feelings?

Tali's crush is a pet pieve of mine, I would have prefered that they didn't retcon her into having feelings in SR1 because she didn't have any, not to mention you could treat her like dirt, refuse to share the geth evidence, so she now has to start her piligrimage from scratch and yet...she falls in love anyways?  gag me with a spoon. just giving her feelings that develop in SR2 would have removed much of the ridiculousness from her romance and making them develop out of mutual trust instead of taking advantage of her crush would have made it even better.  because now you don't have to feel like you kicked a puppy when you refuse her.

lastly - variety.  who says that there cannot be variety even if you have player always innitiate the romance?  do they HAVe to use exactly the same words or innitiate it exactly the same way?  not really.  eachcharacter has a different history with Shepard already, so its already a different relationship.

edited to add - characters shutting you down, becasue you dont match up personality wise?  that would be damn awesome.  one of my favorite parts about jacob's romance is that he can actualy dump you if you push him to far. 

I really had issues with the Tali romance progression too, it seemed a little too pat, for lack of a better word. Tali in ME1 seemed pretty neutral emotionally, and for that matter so did Garrus. Wrex seemed hostile in a subdued way, but that's krogan for you. And you're right, Kaidan is rather taciturn with MaleShep. I honestly wouldn't mind if Kaidan was a s/s LI option, I do like the character and he's an LI for one of my FemSheps, and I would be concerned if Kaidan always has a crush on Shepard regardless of the playthrough. If there is a "longtime crush" scenario at all, it should not be applied across the board, but should be limited to very Paragon Shepards (of both genders) who actively cultivated a friendship with Kaidan, though I don't know if the save files track whether or not you spoke with the VS on the Normandy after each mission. Conversely, a new s/s Miranda romance would probably make the most sense for Shepards who have made decisions that parallel her own views, rather than a simple Paragon/Renegade percentage. And so it would go with each possibility. Under no circumstances should all LIs be open to all Shepards, in my opinion, because in a lot of cases those characters should have a fundamental difference of opinion regarding very basic beliefs and ideals. That should play just as much of a role in romance as gender, I think.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 15 juin 2011 - 05:20 .

[jeweledleah]

@ Sian - I would rather preferred that they never used unrequited crush plot device ever again for any characters in any romances. Gibbed shows some values tracked, but it doesn't seem to track what sort of conversations you had and unlike with garrus where it actually tracks whether you paragoned or renegaded him - it doesn't seem to track that with VS.

the reason why I like friendship to lovers paths (and like I said, they don't have to be identical not even a little bit) is because it doesn't contradict previous games, it requires zero explanation for why same sex romance is now available, it gives more control to the players and it allows you to keep your bro relationships - as bro relationships, if you so chose.

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...
right, Kaidan also has almost identical dialogue to that of Ashley, with the exception of one phrase

With a very diffent delivery. All dialogues are directed by BW so why did they made Kaidan be so much more passionate than Ash?

jeweledleah wrote...
Horizon is a terrible benchmark to judge the character by.  you are latching on to one badly written phrase like its canon.

Maybe. But you're on the other hand want to dismiss it completly, like it's some sort of a mistake that somehow made into the final game.

jeweledleah wrote...
how about going back to ME1 and going through maleshep conversation paths with Kaidan and then for comparison - going through femshep ones?  ther's a huge difference in just how much he opens up, how much he tells Shepards, etc.  you know why people think that Kaidan is boring?  becasue when you play a maleshep - he barely speaks to you at all.  he's super professional.  I've also heard justifications that Kaidan falls in love after Horizon.  Right.  he doesn't write, he is angry at Shepard for working with terrorisits and yet he falls in love exactly..why?

The additional stuff he says to FemShep is part of the romance. Since there's no romance with ManShep, he doesn't say that much.

jeweledleah wrote...
unspoken crushes. imagine this.  you do not want to romance a character.  so you essentialy want them to suffer unrequitted love becasue you wanted some variation? you want players who just want a bro feel uncomfortable becasue someone they thought a friend is in love with them and they cannot reciprocate those feelings?

Lol Wait. Let me get this clear. Bi/gay male characters can't be written as in love with male character because straight male players could feel uncomfortable? What's this nonsense with characters not being able to be in love with the main character out of their own feelings anyway? How is that realistic that they fall in love only if the main character initiates it. That's not how love works. You don't control other people's feelings. You have a choice to not get involved with them. I might feel uncomfortable with some character that I thought was a "bro" that now tried to kill me, should we remove that character to not make me feel uncomfortable?

[SennenScale]

We could solve the unrequited love thing by not making the characters be drama queens. For the sake of straight Shepards, they might get over it by the end of the game/just realize Shepard is never going to return their feelings and move on.

[Dapper Pomegranate]

IsaacShep wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

you want players who just want a bro feel uncomfortable becasue someone they thought a friend is in love with them and they cannot reciprocate those feelings?

What's this nonsense with characters not being able to be in love with the main character out of their own feelings anyway? How is that realistic that they fall in love only if the main character initiates it. That's not how love works. You don't control other people's feelings.

Bros feeling uncomfortable because a friend loves them but they can't reciprocate? Been there, done that <.<
If we care about realism, why shouldn't a situation like this come up? It happens. It's neither fun nor comfortable for either side, but it does call up pretty strong emotions from both parties and isn't that what they're going for in ME3? *$0.02 deposited*

Modifié par FrozenFire42, 15 juin 2011 - 05:41 .

[jeweledleah]

1. i didn't just mean straight players. i meant all players who are not interested in specific romances and instead are only interested in friendship path. lets take Tali again, as an example. you are interested in a romance with Miranda. you pursue Miranda. and then Tali suddenly reveals her crush to you (as she actually does) you are someone who is not interested in messing with more then one romance at the time. now you are uncofortable because you know this other girl has a crush on you and you don't feel like you did anything to cause it. your relationship with Tali no longer feels the same. add to that the fact that some players feel like she's a little sister character and it becomes doubly uncomfortable.

and it has nothing to do with sexual orientation, so please don't make it about one. my femsheps who consider Kaidan a friend and are madly in love with someone else (or just plain single) would feel just as uncomfortable if it turns out he never got over his 3 years old crush. (because remember, unlike maleshep - he does have a crush on femshep, you have to actively shut him down if you don't want any ninjamances - speaking of ninjamances)

2. this is a video game made for a lot of different players. its already not entirely realistic. creating a potential ninjamance/uncomfortable situation/thinly disguised public service announcement just becasue you are enamoured with a specific romantic path? not the best of ideas. Horizon,in fact proved it where the characters acted exactly the same regadless of the relationship you had with them previously. as for direction and more passion - I give you exhibit a - femshep conversations with Jacob. even if you just want to be friends, femshep sounds like she's about to tear off his clothes and have him right there and then. voice direction for ME2 across the board was not exactly stellar.

I've loved you all along is a cheesy juvenile plot device regardless of which romance its used for.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 15 juin 2011 - 05:43 .

[Dapper Pomegranate]

jeweledleah wrote...

1. i didn't just mean straight players. i meant all players who are not interested in specific romances and instead are only interested in friendship path. lets take Tali again, as an example. you are interested in a romance with Miranda. you pursue Miranda. and then Tali suddenly reveals her crush to you (as she actually does) you are someone who is not interested in messing with more then one romance at the time. now you are uncofortable because you know this other girl has a crush on you and you don't feel like you did anything to cause it. your relationship with Tali no longer feels the same. add to that the fact that some players feel like she's a little sister character and it becomes doubly uncomfortable.

and it has nothing to do with sexual orientation, so please don't make it about one. my femsheps who consider Kaidan a friend and are madly in love with someone else (or just plain single) would feel just as uncomfortable if it turns out he never got over his 3 years old crush. (because remember, unlike maleshep - he does have a crush on femshep, you have to actively shut him down if you don't want any ninjamances - speaking of ninjamances)

Is that such a bad thing, though? Like I said up thurr^ Bio's looking to add more emotional mumbojumbo to the game, and uncomfortableness is an emotional response. If something a character says or does causes you to feel differently about said character, or causes your relationship with them to feel different, plenty would call that a success as far as character development goes.

Modifié par FrozenFire42, 15 juin 2011 - 05:54 .

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...

1. i didn't just mean straight players. i meant all players who are not interested in specific romances and instead are only interested in friendship path. lets take Tali again, as an example. you are interested in a romance with Miranda. you pursue Miranda. and then Tali suddenly reveals her crush to you (as she actually does) you are someone who is not interested in messing with more then one romance at the time. now you are uncofortable because you know this other girl has a crush on you and you don't feel like you did anything to cause it. your relationship with Tali no longer feels the same. add to that the fact that some players feel like she's a little sister character and it becomes doubly uncomfortable.

To me it's simple. It's a part of the story. It's a part of the character. The characters in games/movies/books/comics are suppoused to feel real. And revealing a crush to someone is real. Some people do that. Others will hide their feelings forever inside them. Other won't get interested in someone unless approched first. Other are simply not interested period. Variety, as you spoke. Being unfomrotable with some character is also part of the experience. Did you play KOTOR 2? How comfortable were you with Kreia? Sith witch you just knew will try to kill you sooner or later. It was part of the experience and story. Characters in video games/books/movies do stuff that is not controlled by the player/viewer/reader.

jeweledleah wrote...
and it has nothing to do with sexual orientation, so please don't make it about one. my femsheps who consider Kaidan a friend and are madly in love with someone else (or just plain single) would feel just as uncomfortable if it turns out he never got over his 3 years old crush. (because remember, unlike maleshep - he does have a crush on femshep, you have to actively shut him down if you don't want any ninjamances - speaking of ninjamances)

Ahh but you don't know if he doesn't have a crush on ManShep. He hits on FemShep because he thinks she's strsight = likes men = Kaidan has a chance. It's different for ManShep. Also, do you think he got over FemShep crush 5 minutes after you shot him down? Hell no. You know he was still thinking about you throughout many hours of the gameplay. Having that knowledge would be a part of the experience to me.

jeweledleah wrote...
2. this is a video game made for a lot of different players. its already not entirely realistic. creating a potential ninjamance/uncomfortable situation/thinly disguised public service announcement just becasue you are enamoured with a specific romantic path? not the best of ideas. Horizon,in fact proved it where the characters acted exactly the same regadless of the relationship you had with them previously. as for direction and more passion - I give you exhibit a - femshep conversations with Jacob. even if you just want to be friends, femshep sounds like she's about to tear off his clothes and have him right there and then. voice direction for ME2 across the board was not exactly stellar.

I've loved you all along is a cheesy juvenile plot device regardless of which romance its used for.

On this we'll just have to agree to disagree since 'ninjamancing' is just non-existing issue to me. Characters hitting on the character I play are just part of the story to me and quite honestly it's hard to understand to me what's so uncomfortable in this when there are betreyals, assassinations, characters working behind your back, trying to kill you, allies who use you etc. When Tali confesses her feelings I just shut her down and move on. But it adds to her character, why she loves my character is part of her personality and adds to the experience and my knowledge of the character.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 15 juin 2011 - 05:59 .

[PinkDiamondstl]

[inappropriate post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 15 juin 2011 - 04:41 .

[PinkDiamondstl]

These people are ruining video games for me........

[TexasToast712]

I have no problem with S/S romances. As long as it is restricted to new characters only. No rewriting the sexual orientation of previous characters. (Except Kaiden, I dont care what you do with him, Kelly either.)

[SennenScale]

I think the discomfort thing could be minimized if the bros/sis's found someone different if not pursued. Might be uncomfortable the first time, but you, the player, would know they're not just sitting there pining for you specifically.

Or the characters only have the crush if Shepard brings it up. If you can push Garrus toward paragon or renegade, it would be entirely possible that in some playthroughs, characters never developed a crush on you unless you encourage them through flirt responses. For example, the gibbed editor can keep track of whether you talked to Ashley or Kaidan in ME1. If you had previously talked to them a lot, then you flirted, voila, crush. If you spoke to them but stay professional in ME3, the feelings died or were never brought up. You never spoke to them? No crush whatsoever.

Modifié par SennenScale, 15 juin 2011 - 06:11 .

[Dapper Pomegranate]

SennenScale wrote...

You never spoke to them? No crush whatsoever.

 I hope not. Before ME2 came out I did two or three speedruns, barely talking to any squaddies. I'd be super sad if those imports were devoid of man-lovin'

[diskoh]

[inappropriate post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 15 juin 2011 - 04:43 .

[ElitePinecone]

SennenScale wrote...

it would be entirely possible that in some playthroughs, characters never developed a crush on you unless you encourage them through flirt responses. For example, the gibbed editor can keep track of whether you talked to Ashley or Kaidan in ME1. If you had previously talked to them a lot, then you flirted, voila, crush. If you spoke to them but stay professional in ME3, the feelings died or were never brought up. You never spoke to them? No crush whatsoever.

This is an interesting idea, but it would heavily disadvantage people who had never played the first game. 

Making romances contingent on content and choices within ME3 seems to be the best option, given how many people would have to edit their saves or play through ME/ME2 again just for this. Though I do like the sound of using the plot flags that kept track of conversation intensity (from memory, you can get a number up to four if you talked to them repeatedly). 

@FrozenFire: You can easily edit ME2 saves to change the ME-imported plot flags. I've used it to 'trick' the game into recognising a Kaidan-mShep ME romance.

@diskoh: Please don't respond to trolls. Especially by advising suicide. It's unhelpful and they should be ignored. 

[ERJAK1]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

These people are ruining video games for me........

Why on earth would you come to the romance section of the forums of a game that JUST RECENTLY had a same-sex romance confirmation then?

[TexasToast712]

Iam suprised noone found my above comment interesting.

[Maugrim]

Please do not respond to the trolls. I have already sent a PM to javier though if you would like to send a PM to javier or another mod I'm sure those posts will be dealt with soon enough. Responding to such posts just prompts them to post more.

So to move things along....Someone suggested that we should have SpaceIsabela as a new romance interest. Great idea or Greatest idea?