25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Twizz089]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

That's a little one way isn't it? I have some pretty extensive hours playing both ME and ME2 and I can't think of a single character that is "established hetero". Either give us ALL a choice, or take ALL of it OUT. You can't have it both ways.

The system of player activated s/s romance will allow both sides to get what they want.  The people who believe the characters to be hetero can keep them as such and the players that want the same sex option can pick it.  If the normandy becomes a "coming out party" that is not activated by the player then you force players to change their vision of the character.  My version of Kaiden is not gay.  It is however ok for the new characters like Vega to be bi since noone has created their version of him yet.

Theres nothing wrong with what your proposing but the way it's done is...bleeee. 

"Your version"? Sorry - there's only one character whose yours and his/her name is Shepard. 

You should be saying this to the people who want the sexual preferences of characters to magically change based on the sex of their shep

[Sunnie]

Clonedzero wrote...

1/3rd straight, 1/3rd bi, and 1/3rd gay/lesbian.

How's that going to work for a lesbian/bi woman who gets in a game and really wants to romance the one character she seems to connect with most, but she is straight? Ya, like I said, give everyone all the choices or leave all of that content out.  Splitting it in thirds is ultimately going to discriminate groups of men and women, since they will be locked out of romancing the character they really want.

Modifié par Sunnie22, 11 août 2011 - 12:30 .

[Arik7]

I hate it when the ME2 wheel presents you with 2 almost exactly the same responses and you have no idea what`s the difference.... At least the DA2 icons would let you know if the statement is diplomatic, sarcastic or aggressive.

[Maugrim]

Clonedzero wrote...

new games / franchises, should have predefined orientations for characters 1/3rd straight, 1/3rd bi, and 1/3rd gay/lesbian. that way everyone is included and writers have complete freedom to fully write detailed backrounds and stuff for them. also avoids all this sorta nonsense where they have to figure out who's good for s/s romances and who's not, if they shoudl all be available or not ect.

No thanks I don't want gay only LI's and quite a few share my sentiment.  I gain nothing from restricting the conent of other people from nebulous, nonexistent benefits.  Although I will live up to my promise to troll the ignorant tight-ass club should we ever get a gay only LI that they suddenly want to be bi.

David Gaider wrote...

And the person who says that the only way to please them is to restric options for others is, if you ask me, the one who deserves it least . And that's my opinion, expressed as politely as possible.

I agree with that quote, people like you, who want restrictions, on optional conent based upon limited, simplified  and faulty understanding of human sexuality, do not deserve to be catered to.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 11 août 2011 - 12:34 .

[Arik7]

Clonedzero wrote...

1/3rd straight, 1/3rd bi, and 1/3rd gay/lesbian.

okay, 2 choices for straights of each gender, that`s 4
2 choices for bisexuals, that`s 2 more,
2 choices for gays and 2 for lesbians, that`s another 4.

That`s TEN romances to write!  and would probably consume half of BioWare`s budget. BioWare might as well scrap the whole shooter thing and make it a dating sim.
 

[Clonedzero]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

1/3rd straight, 1/3rd bi, and 1/3rd gay/lesbian.

How's that going to work for a lesbian/bi woman who gets in a game and really wants to romance the one character she seems to connect with most, but she is straight? Ya, like I said, give everyone all the choices or leave all of that content out.  Splitting it in thirds is ultimately going to discriminate groups of men and women, since they will be locked out of romancing the character they really want.

its not discriminateing against anyone rofl, thats absurd. just because you dont get the very specific romance option that YOU want doesnt mean its discrimininating against anyone.

thats like saying there not being a joker romance in the game is discrminiating against people who want one.

characters should feel like people, people have sexual orientations. i cant walk up to a lesbian in real life and go "you're straight now because i find you attractive and find your personality interesting".

giving everyone every option waters it down and cheapens it all as a whole. you cant have well developed backrounds and character relaitonships if the characters themselves arent well developed lol

[Twizz089]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

1/3rd straight, 1/3rd bi, and 1/3rd gay/lesbian.

How's that going to work for a lesbian/bi woman who gets in a game and really wants to romance the one character she seems to connect with most, but she is straight? Ya, like I said, give everyone all the choices or leave all of that content out.  Splitting it in thirds is ultimately going to discriminate groups of men and women, since they will be locked out of romancing the character they really want.

I sure hope she wont take it to heart if she gets rejected by a video game character
In DA2 the only personality I was attracted to was Avelines, I couldnt romance her, but we had the best in game connection.  In ME2 I really like Samara, again I couldnt romance her, having characters reject the player is more believable, and adds to the depth of the characters, as opposed to having all characters be fair game.

Modifié par Twizz089, 11 août 2011 - 12:38 .

[Quething]

Arik7 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

1/3rd straight, 1/3rd bi, and 1/3rd gay/lesbian.

okay, 2 choices for straights of each gender, that`s 4
2 choices for bisexuals, that`s 2 more,
2 choices for gays and 2 for lesbians, that`s another 4.

That`s TEN romances to write!  and would probably consume half of BioWare`s budget. BioWare might as well scrap the whole shooter thing and make it a dating sim.
 

Well, actually there's overlap. Six characters, three male, three female. One of each is each orientation (ignoring for the moment that orientation is a complex multidimensional spectrum and not three easily-defined categories). That's two straight characters, two bi characters, two gay characters; two romance choices for straight PCs, two romance choices for gay PCs, and four romance choices for bisexual PCs.

Six romances is still likely too many, though, as we saw with ME2.

[Clonedzero]

Arik7 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

1/3rd straight, 1/3rd bi, and 1/3rd gay/lesbian.

okay, 2 choices for straights of each gender, that`s 4
2 choices for bisexuals, that`s 2 more,
2 choices for gays and 2 for lesbians, that`s another 4.

That`s TEN romances to write!  and would probably consume half of BioWare`s budget. BioWare might as well scrap the whole shooter thing and make it a dating sim.
 

what? thats talkinga bout a completely new game wtih completely new characters, not for ME3.

but yeah, 2 straight romancable characters, 2 bi romancable characters, and 2 gay/lesbian characters.  thats 6 characters. giving straight people 3 options, gay/lesbians 3 options, and bi 3 options.

works out pretty well. sure theres a chance someone might not get the specific character they want, but that already happens. "why cant i romance joker, why cant i romance dr chawkwas ect."

[Arik7]

Clonedzero wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

1/3rd straight, 1/3rd bi, and 1/3rd gay/lesbian.

okay, 2 choices for straights of each gender, that`s 4
2 choices for bisexuals, that`s 2 more,
2 choices for gays and 2 for lesbians, that`s another 4.

That`s TEN romances to write!  and would probably consume half of BioWare`s budget. BioWare might as well scrap the whole shooter thing and make it a dating sim.
 

what? thats talkinga bout a completely new game wtih completely new characters, not for ME3.

but yeah, 2 straight romancable characters, 2 bi romancable characters, and 2 gay/lesbian characters.  thats 6 characters. giving straight people 3 options, gay/lesbians 3 options, and bi 3 options.

psssst.... gay men and lesbians can not be attracted to the same characters.  

[Sunnie]

Clonedzero wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

1/3rd straight, 1/3rd bi, and 1/3rd gay/lesbian.

How's that going to work for a lesbian/bi woman who gets in a game and really wants to romance the one character she seems to connect with most, but she is straight? Ya, like I said, give everyone all the choices or leave all of that content out.  Splitting it in thirds is ultimately going to discriminate groups of men and women, since they will be locked out of romancing the character they really want.

its not discriminateing against anyone rofl, thats absurd. just because you dont get the very specific romance option that YOU want doesnt mean its discrimininating against anyone.

thats like saying there not being a joker romance in the game is discrminiating against people who want one.

characters should feel like people, people have sexual orientations. i cant walk up to a lesbian in real life and go "you're straight now because i find you attractive and find your personality interesting".

giving everyone every option waters it down and cheapens it all as a whole. you cant have well developed backrounds and character relaitonships if the characters themselves arent well developed lol

Here's the Websters definition for you.

dis·crim·i·nate   [v. dih-skrim-uh-neyt; adj. dih-skrim-uh-nit], -nat·ed, -nat·ing, adjective, verb (used without object)

1. to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs rather than according to actual merit]show partiality.
2. to note or observe a difference]discriminate between things. verb (used with object)
3. to make or constitute a distinction in or between]differentiate: a mark that discriminates the original from the copy.
4. to note or distinguish as different: He can discriminate minute variations in tone.


I think #1 pretty accurately descibes it.

Giving everyone the option waters down and cheapens the content...So as long as you get your o/s romances it's all good then?  Ya, I thought so.

Modifié par Sunnie22, 11 août 2011 - 12:46 .

[Abispa]

Twizz089 wrote...

I sure hope she wont take it to heart if she gets rejected by a video game character
In DA2 the only personality I was attracted to was Avelines, I couldnt romance her, but we had the best in game connection.  In ME2 I really like Samara, again I couldnt romance her, having characters reject the player is more believable, and adds to the depth of the characters, as opposed to having all characters be fair game.

Excuse me, but aren't you the man who's been complaining for the last half dozen pages that you couldn't turn off a character's sexuality because you were concerned that they were hitting on your hero? And now no Bioware game can ever reach YOUR level of immersion unless your sexual persuasion has LIs that only cater to them?

[Clonedzero]

Arik7 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

1/3rd straight, 1/3rd bi, and 1/3rd gay/lesbian.

okay, 2 choices for straights of each gender, that`s 4
2 choices for bisexuals, that`s 2 more,
2 choices for gays and 2 for lesbians, that`s another 4.

That`s TEN romances to write!  and would probably consume half of BioWare`s budget. BioWare might as well scrap the whole shooter thing and make it a dating sim.
 

what? thats talkinga bout a completely new game wtih completely new characters, not for ME3.

but yeah, 2 straight romancable characters, 2 bi romancable characters, and 2 gay/lesbian characters.  thats 6 characters. giving straight people 3 options, gay/lesbians 3 options, and bi 3 options.

psssst.... gay men and lesbians can not be attracted to the same characters.  

yeah i think i messed up the math there lol, but still the best way to do it

[Abispa]

Arik7 wrote...

psssst.... gay men and lesbians can not be attracted to the same characters.  

Everyone wants them some Krogan love.

[Sunnie]

Twizz089 wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

1/3rd straight, 1/3rd bi, and 1/3rd gay/lesbian.

How's that going to work for a lesbian/bi woman who gets in a game and really wants to romance the one character she seems to connect with most, but she is straight? Ya, like I said, give everyone all the choices or leave all of that content out.  Splitting it in thirds is ultimately going to discriminate groups of men and women, since they will be locked out of romancing the character they really want.

I sure hope she wont take it to heart if she gets rejected by a video game character
In DA2 the only personality I was attracted to was Avelines, I couldnt romance her, but we had the best in game connection.  In ME2 I really like Samara, again I couldnt romance her, having characters reject the player is more believable, and adds to the depth of the characters, as opposed to having all characters be fair game.

Theres a difference, Aveline and Samara were not LI options, at all. Connecting with them would not have made a difference whether you were male or female.

[Clonedzero]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Here's the Websters definition for you.

dis·crim·i·nate   [v. dih-skrim-uh-neyt; adj. dih-skrim-uh-nit], -nat·ed, -nat·ing, adjective, verb (used without object)

1. to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs rather than according to actual merit]show partiality.
2. to note or observe a difference]discriminate between things. verb (used with object)
3. to make or constitute a distinction in or between]differentiate: a mark that discriminates the original from the copy.
4. to note or distinguish as different: He can discriminate minute variations in tone.


I think #1 pretty accurately descibes it.

Giving everyone the option waters down and cheapens the content...So as long as you get your o/s romances it's all good then?  Ya, I thought so.

first off, im not really sure what exactly o/s means lol. i assume it means straight?
but the reverse could happen you know.
a male player could find a connection with a female character and have her turn out to be strictly a lesbian.
im ok with that scenario as well.

and no, its still no discrimination, unless people having their own personal sexual preference is discriminating against anyone they dont want to have sex with? lol

im a straight male, would you call the fact i dont want to have sex with other men discriminating against them? thats absurd.

[Twizz089]

Arik7 wrote...

[psssst.... gay men and lesbians can not be attracted to the same characters.  

With 6 options you could have 1 for each and 2 that overlap, so there would be 2 options for everybody.

[Jademoon121]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

1/3rd straight, 1/3rd bi, and 1/3rd gay/lesbian.

How's that going to work for a lesbian/bi woman who gets in a game and really wants to romance the one character she seems to connect with most, but she is straight? Ya, like I said, give everyone all the choices or leave all of that content out.  Splitting it in thirds is ultimately going to discriminate groups of men and women, since they will be locked out of romancing the character they really want.

I sure hope she wont take it to heart if she gets rejected by a video game character
In DA2 the only personality I was attracted to was Avelines, I couldnt romance her, but we had the best in game connection.  In ME2 I really like Samara, again I couldnt romance her, having characters reject the player is more believable, and adds to the depth of the characters, as opposed to having all characters be fair game.

Theres a difference, Aveline and Samara were not LI options, at all. Connecting with them would not have made a difference whether you were male or female.

To be fair, you can hit on Samara, only to be rejected of course. Still I agree, tis a false comparison.

Modifié par Jademoon121, 11 août 2011 - 12:53 .

[DudesterMcGillicutty]

I feel like it would be a bit of a cop-out if all the characters were made so that they could be ****** or hetero. It weakens the characters. It leaves them undefined until we, the player, chooses to define them.

I've got to agree with Twizz here, a person's sexuality is a huge part of their personality. Though, I think he didn't phrase it the best way. The physical property (the gene or nucleotide base or whatever) that determines your sexuality does not affect your personality. However, the fact that you are straight or gay plays a huge role in how both you react to people and how people react to you. People create their outward personas based on how people react to them.

So, it just seems like just plain bad writing to have a character that can be chosen to be either straight or gay. The character would be completely different in each of those circumstances.

Modifié par DudesterMcGillicutty, 11 août 2011 - 12:55 .

[Arik7]

Twizz089 wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

[psssst.... gay men and lesbians can not be attracted to the same characters.  

With 6 options you could have 1 for each and 2 that overlap, so there would be 2 options for everybody.

Yes, but fans would be more pleased with 3 options, and the dialog is mostly there already.

[Twizz089]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

1/3rd straight, 1/3rd bi, and 1/3rd gay/lesbian.

How's that going to work for a lesbian/bi woman who gets in a game and really wants to romance the one character she seems to connect with most, but she is straight? Ya, like I said, give everyone all the choices or leave all of that content out.  Splitting it in thirds is ultimately going to discriminate groups of men and women, since they will be locked out of romancing the character they really want.

I sure hope she wont take it to heart if she gets rejected by a video game character
In DA2 the only personality I was attracted to was Avelines, I couldnt romance her, but we had the best in game connection.  In ME2 I really like Samara, again I couldnt romance her, having characters reject the player is more believable, and adds to the depth of the characters, as opposed to having all characters be fair game.

Theres a difference, Aveline and Samara were not LI options, at all. Connecting with them would not have made a difference whether you were male or female.

It doesnt matter why I couldnt romance her, all that matter was that it was part of her character as to way I couldnt, that makes the character stronger and adds to its depth.  Making characters sexually blank slates to be molded by the player takes away from this depth and waters down all romance options.  Is it too much to ask for characters who function in the world independent of the player?

Modifié par Twizz089, 11 août 2011 - 01:00 .

[Sunnie]

Clonedzero wrote...

first off, im not really sure what exactly o/s means lol. i assume it means straight?
but the reverse could happen you know.
a male player could find a connection with a female character and have her turn out to be strictly a lesbian.
im ok with that scenario as well.

and no, its still no discrimination, unless people having their own personal sexual preference is discriminating against anyone they dont want to have sex with? lol

im a straight male, would you call the fact i dont want to have sex with other men discriminating against them? thats absurd.

Yes, that is correct, I just didn't detail out all of the different variations of how it's wrong to save time and space.

And the term discriminate is accurate when you limit something to a particular group. That is a huge fail because the product will ultimately upset more players than if you gave everyone fair access to all of the content. At this point the only ones who are still whining about this are the anti-gay group who troll all of the s/s threads ad-nauseam

[Zjarcal]

Twizz089 wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

[psssst.... gay men and lesbians can not be attracted to the same characters.  

With 6 options you could have 1 for each and 2 that overlap, so there would be 2 options for everybody.

And that would still be limiting my options and limiting choice is just not going to increase my enjoyment of the game at all.

[Abispa]

Clonedzero wrote...

im a straight male, would you call the fact i dont want to have sex with other men discriminating against them? thats absurd.

A lot of straight men like to play bi-female and lesbian characters, and I'm sure that there are some who play bi-male and gay ones as well. We have several regulars female writers on this thread who are straight women who like to play bi-male and gays, and I'm sure that there are some who play bi-female and lesbians as well, including the OP I believe. Many gays and bisexuals have become ME fans despite the series limited options and many have probably played straight by default. Making the LIs, not EVERY character, "bi" is the best imperfect solution to not short anyone their role-playing choices.

[Clonedzero]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

first off, im not really sure what exactly o/s means lol. i assume it means straight?
but the reverse could happen you know.
a male player could find a connection with a female character and have her turn out to be strictly a lesbian.
im ok with that scenario as well.

and no, its still no discrimination, unless people having their own personal sexual preference is discriminating against anyone they dont want to have sex with? lol

im a straight male, would you call the fact i dont want to have sex with other men discriminating against them? thats absurd.

Yes, that is correct, I just didn't detail out all of the different variations of how it's wrong to save time and space.

And the term discriminate is accurate when you limit something to a particular group. That is a huge fail because the product will ultimately upset more players than if you gave everyone fair access to all of the content. At this point the only ones who are still whining about this are the anti-gay group who troll all of the s/s threads ad-nauseam

so not agreeing with you is whining and makes me anti-gay and a troll?
what? are you serious?

im not anti-gay at all. im just saying in future games characters should be fully written, including their sexual orientations. and everyone does have fair access to the content. just create a character compatable with that romancable character. theres nothing discrmininating about that at all. its not like the game asks you your real sexual orientation when it first starts up and locks everything out lol