25715 réponses à ce sujet

[ArawnNox]

wetnasty wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Uh...DA2, DAO and ME1 all have s/s romances (as does ME2 for that matter) none of them have been banned yet.

Your *concern* is unfounded on that front.

Not to mention the Sims where you can not only hook up with S/S people but have sex AND families with them. And The Sims is rated TEEN.

And be horrible two-timing cheating bastards.

[ArawnNox]

Clonedzero wrote...

here, lets do this exercise to make a point on why everyone is bi is bad.

DA:O: about 25% of the cast wanted to sleep with your warden.
ME1: about 33% of the cast wanted to sleep with shepard.
ME2: about 25% of the cast wanted to sleep with shepard
DA2: about 66% of the cast wanted to sleep with hawke.

anything above 50% seems like way too much to me. hell above 40% would be too much.

Dude, haven't you figured it out, yet?
Main Characters exude attraction pheremones that hook in everyone who could be interested in them.
Duh!

[Clonedzero]

Tommy6860 wrote...


Agreed, besides, humans are not as simple as "being set in stone" anyway. Many people go through some period of self-discovery and realize who they truly are. Why not reflect that in games as well.

agreed.
just not with every damn character

[Clonedzero]

ArawnNox wrote...

wetnasty wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Uh...DA2, DAO and ME1 all have s/s romances (as does ME2 for that matter) none of them have been banned yet.

Your *concern* is unfounded on that front.

Not to mention the Sims where you can not only hook up with S/S people but have sex AND families with them. And The Sims is rated TEEN.

And be horrible two-timing cheating bastards.

and lure your neighbors into your bed room and delete the door locking them in then laugh manically as they slowly starve to death.

at least thats how i played the sims

[Maugrim]

ArawnNox wrote...

wetnasty wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Uh...DA2, DAO and ME1 all have s/s romances (as does ME2 for that matter) none of them have been banned yet.

Your *concern* is unfounded on that front.

Not to mention the Sims where you can not only hook up with S/S people but have sex AND families with them. And The Sims is rated TEEN.

And be horrible two-timing cheating bastards.

Two timing?  You must have a some underachieving sims, I had one that had a kid in every household....kinda screwed up relationships for the next generation ! 

But yeah the ban talk is irrelevant.  There is no organization in the United States, which is the primary market and obviously the one our friend is talking about, that can "ban" videogames.  The worst that could happen would be for the ESRB to refuse classification and have major retailers like Walmart refuse to carry the game.  Which would never happen, because they care more about money than any principles.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 11 août 2011 - 02:24 .

[Quething]

jlb524 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
if you want every character to be romancable and everything tobe decided by you, thenw hy not just write your own fanfiction?

Now comes the strawman...I don't want every character to be romanceable...I want the few that are chosen for romance to be available to both genders...to all classes, races, etc.   I want the PC to be able to choose from amongst them but not with everyone in the game.

One of the things that struck me when I first played DA:O was that if Leliana had been a lesbian, instead of bisexual, I would have been much happier with the whole LI situation. I still would have modded myself a Morrigan romance* because I still prefer Morrigan's personality and story for the kind of character I tend to play as my main (and oh man she goes so well with a Cousland), but it would have felt more real. There would have been someone a straight character could never have even if that person would have absolutely loved them with a different set of tackle, just as there were people that gay characters could never have even if that character would have absolutely loved them with a different set of tackle.

What would have been even better than that would have been if Leliana didn't care how many pretty necklaces I gave her if I slaughtered the Circle or abandoned Redcliffe. Maybe she could respect me, maybe she could stick by me because of the importance of the Blight, but if I had to play a particular philosophy and worldview to take that last step and earn her love, that would have felt more realistic too.

If BioWare romances were like that, if each companion had specific tastes that excluded all players equally and accepted all players equally -- if for every LI who wouldn't accept a s/s lover, there was one who wouldn't accept an o/s lover, for every LI who wouldn't accept a paragon there was one wo wouldn't accept a renegade, for every LI wh wouldn't date an elf there was one who wouldn't date a human -- I would actually enjoy that game, and would have little objection to playing various different types of characters that I wouldn't normally play in order to try each romance.

But BioWare romances are never going to be like that. There will never be a s/s exclusive option for every o/s exclusive option. Not in the next couple generations, anyway. They just don't believe the dev expenditure is worth it, Gaider has said as much. It's simple fact, straight from the horse's mouth. So the only way we get queer inclusivity and equality of options is for all LIs to be bisexual; there will never be gay LIs, so straight LIs skew the balance too far toward the het consumers.

And if they ever did start making romances like that, romances that excluded certain character types and catered to others, sexuality is the absolute worst possible place to draw that line. Paragon/renegade, martial/mage, Andrastean/atheist, pro-peace/pro-retaking Rannoch, that kind of thing is far more important and would make a far greater difference to plausibility and authenticity and the issue of the main character being implausibly irresistable to everyone s/he meets.

* Don't anyone ever tell me the Morrigan romance "works better" with a man. How freaking heart-wrenchingly poignant is it to have your own lover to ask you to convince someone else to sleep with her to save your life? How powerful would it be to hear her beg you to do this for her, the way she tries to convince you to do it for Al/Zev/Leli, instead of the neat-little-bow resolution of her asking m!Warden to sleep with her, which is no hardship whatsoever? I will amend my above argument by saying that if there are exclusionary love interests, they cannot be the "main" love interests, the ones like Alistair/Morrigan/Anders/Liara who are most deeply tied to the main plot of the story.

Modifié par Quething, 11 août 2011 - 02:30 .

[jlb524]

Clonedzero wrote...
the DA2/ME comparison is just with volume of content per character. has nothing to do with quality.
i didnt find any of the DA2 romances compelling AT ALL.

That's like, your opinion, man.  So you didn't like the characters...tough luck for you.  That happens.  It has nothing to do with their sexuality though...or does it?

Content per character is an objective measure of romance quality and I thought you said more content (and specific content like the kind DA2 implemented) was a good thing?

Clonedzero wrote...
i found every single character wanting mine to be immersion breaking.

Hyperbole...not every single character wanted you.  Not even all the LIs initiate flirting.

Clonedzero wrote...
it felt like i was playing some juivinal fantasy where i can pick whoever iw ant to go to the other room with. it was bland, took all the interest out of it for me when it stopped being a story and turned into a matchmaker service. it broke immersion for me and pulled me out of the story when it was "LI1 LI2 LI3 LI4, all available to you now, make your pick".  it didnt feel natural at all.

More hyperbole.  You are acting as if the entire game revolved around these romances.  Have you ever played an actual dating simulator by chance?

Clonedzero wrote...
its not realistic. you;re saying its not a dating sim,

Because it isn't...google 'dating simulator'.

Clonedzero wrote...
but then demanding to be able to date any of the characters? what?!

Strawman...again. 

Clonedzero wrote...
romance subplots should only exist if they make sense with that character. they shouldnt be "hey look we have a wide range of makes and models for you to try out, feel free to have a go at any of them!"

How is that any different from any BW game that gives multiple romance choices?  What does this have to do with sexuality again?

[draken-heart]

QUIT bringing up DA2 everyone, This is ME3 we are talking about, and besides, romances are optional, you don't even need to participate in them.

[Abispa]

Okay, there's been a lot of talk about dating simulators and it occurred to me that I had never actually played one. I still haven't played one cause the sites for them look kind of shady, but according to wikipedia there are usually a group of Anime girls who are "established" and cannot be romanced by just anyone. These girls do NOT become a part of YOUR game but instead drive the action by forcing the player to play a certain way to earn their love.

That doesn't sound like what the "bi" LI supporters are asking for. In fact...

[Abispa]

draken-heart wrote...

QUIT bringing up DA2 everyone, This is ME3 we are talking about, and besides, romances are optional, you don't even need to participate in them.

Just as DA2 was influenced by the ME series, even though it was made by a separate team, it is not a stretch to imagine that feedback from DA2 will influence how ME3 will handle the inclusion of s/s romances, particularly for the males.

[ArawnNox]

Abispa wrote...

Okay, there's been a lot of talk about dating simulators and it occurred to me that I had never actually played one. I still haven't played one cause the sites for them look kind of shady, but according to wikipedia there are usually a group of Anime girls who are "established" and cannot be romanced by just anyone. These girls do NOT become a part of YOUR game but instead drive the action by forcing the player to play a certain way to earn their love.

That doesn't sound like what the "bi" LI supporters are asking for. In fact...

If you decide to take that plunge, start with "True Love".
Yes, it's a hentai game, but it's generally touted as the best dating sim out there.

Not that I have personal experience or anything..... *ahem*  

[jlb524]

Clonedzero wrote...

here, lets do this exercise to make a point on why everyone is bi is bad.

DA:O: about 25% of the team wanted to sleep with your warden.
ME1: about 33% of the team wanted to sleep with shepard.
ME2: about 25% of the team wanted to sleep with shepard
DA2: about 66% of the team wanted to sleep with hawke.

anything above 50% seems like way too much to me. hell above 40% would be too much.

Being a romance option =/= wanting to sleep with the PC.

It's not as if they try to jump your bones as soon as they meet you.

What you are saying is that you don't want X percent of crew members open to possible (as in, not having to happen..as in optional) romances with the PC.

[Tommy6860]

Clonedzero wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...


Agreed, besides, humans are not as simple as "being set in stone" anyway. Many people go through some period of self-discovery and realize who they truly are. Why not reflect that in games as well.

agreed.
just not with every damn character

Still don't get it, do you? To put it succinctly, if people would just not worry about being gay, straight, bi or pan, these threads wouldn't be a necessity, now would it? We can enjoy the games to our liking as we see the game should play for us, and I personally hope to hell that it develops even better than what I am seeing with ME3 with future games. What's really sad in that every reasonable response to you, your intent keeps shining through

[catharsisboo]

Clonedzero wrote...
"merril hits on me, hmmm, alrighty"
"fenris hits on me. well damn who ISNT going to hit on me?"

Where in the game do Merrill and Fenris flirt with Hawke?

[Abispa]

EDIT: For placement elsewhere.

Modifié par Abispa, 11 août 2011 - 02:45 .

[Clonedzero]

catharsisboo wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
"merril hits on me, hmmm, alrighty"
"fenris hits on me. well damn who ISNT going to hit on me?"

Where in the game do Merrill and Fenris flirt with Hawke?

been over this. go back a few pages.

[bleetman]

catharsisboo wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
"merril hits on me, hmmm, alrighty"
"fenris hits on me. well damn who ISNT going to hit on me?"

Where in the game do Merrill and Fenris flirt with Hawke?

Well, that's a complicated question. In our own space time, never. Not unless the player does it first, and even then they need to hit that heart option a few times before they really respond in kind.

I can only assume in the dimension cloned is currently occupying, every line delivered by either characters consists of them immediately ripping off their clothes and demanding Hawke take them right there. Also, there may or may not be unicorns and/or griffons.

Modifié par bleetman, 11 août 2011 - 02:41 .

[Clonedzero]

Tommy6860 wrote...



Still don't get it, do you? To put it succinctly, if people would just not worry about being gay, straight, bi or pan, these threads wouldn't be a necessity, now would it? We can enjoy the games to our liking as we see the game should play for us, and I personally hope to hell that it develops even better than what I am seeing with ME3 with future games. What's really sad in that every reasonable response to you, your intent keeps shining through

my intent? what exactly do you think my intent is?

im not worrying about it. i'm pro-s/s romance.
i just dont want every romance option to be bi, as thats not realistic at all.

[Clonedzero]

bleetman wrote...

catharsisboo wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
"merril hits on me, hmmm, alrighty"
"fenris hits on me. well damn who ISNT going to hit on me?"

Where in the game do Merrill and Fenris flirt with Hawke?

Well, that's a complicated question. In our own space time, never. Not unless the player does it first, and even then they need to hit that heart option a few times before they really respond in kind.

I can only assume in the dimension cloned is currently occupying, every line delivered by either characters consists of them immediately ripping off their clothes and demanding Hawke take them right there. Also, there may or may not be unicorns and/or griffons.

troll elsewhere please.

[jlb524]

Clonedzero wrote...

i just dont want every romance option to be bi, as thats not realistic at all.

So...what makes for realistic romances?

Include more than sexuality in your explanation.

Quething wrote...

* Don't anyone ever tell me the Morrigan romance "works better" with a man. How freaking heart-wrenchingly
poignant is it to have your own lover to ask you to convince someone else to sleep with her to save your life? How powerful would it be to hear her beg you to do this for her, the way she tries to convince you to do it for Al/Zev/Leli, instead of the neat-little-bow resolution of her asking m!Warden to sleep with her, which is no hardship whatsoever? I will amend my above argument by saying that if there are exclusionary love interests, they cannot be the "main"
love interests, the ones like Alistair/Morrigan/Anders/Liara who are most deeply tied to the main plot of the story.

I agree with your post...especially this point...Morrigan could have easily been an f/f romance..they would have had to rewrite the end a bit, but it would have worked and been poignant.  Plus, the male and female versions of the romances would have differed a bit based on gender VOILA!  That's what some are pushing so hard for...specifics based on gender.

Modifié par jlb524, 11 août 2011 - 02:46 .

[Abispa]

catharsisboo wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
"merril hits on me, hmmm, alrighty"
"fenris hits on me. well damn who ISNT going to hit on me?"

Where in the game do Merrill and Fenris flirt with Hawke?

Dude, if I'm a guy, it is established lore that EVERY straight woman, gay man, and bisexual wants to mess with my junk.

Apparently there is a scene where Fenris pays Hawke a compliment and tells him/her not to take it the wrong way. Bioware then give the player the option to SAY s/he's taking it the wrong way. And since Fenris is "bi" we KNOW he's lying 'cause bisexuals want to mess with everybody's junk.

[Twizz089]

bleetman wrote...

catharsisboo wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
"merril hits on me, hmmm, alrighty"
"fenris hits on me. well damn who ISNT going to hit on me?"

Where in the game do Merrill and Fenris flirt with Hawke?

Well, that's a complicated question. In our own space time, never. Not unless the player does it first, and even then they need to hit that heart option a few times before they really respond in kind.

I can only assume in the dimension cloned is currently occupying, every line delivered by either characters consists of them immediately ripping off their clothes and demanding Hawke take them right there. Also, there may or may not be unicorns and/or griffons.

If this was the case I would have never seen the broken heart option when I talked to Merril or Fenris, since I never picked the heart option for either character

[Erani]

jlb524 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

here, lets do this exercise to make a point on why everyone is bi is bad.

DA:O: about 25% of the team wanted to sleep with your warden.
ME1: about 33% of the team wanted to sleep with shepard.
ME2: about 25% of the team wanted to sleep with shepard
DA2: about 66% of the team wanted to sleep with hawke.

anything above 50% seems like way too much to me. hell above 40% would be too much.

Being a romance option =/= wanting to sleep with the PC.

It's not as if they try to jump your bones as soon as they meet you.

What you are saying is that you don't want X percent of crew members open to possible (as in, not having to happen..as in optional) romances with the PC.

Plus percentages are flawed because gender of the PC was not taken into account or the impossibility of certain team members wanting to sleep/romance the PC such as dog, the golem, the elderly person, a krogan, a married dwarf (cannot condone adultery; guess ok if Branka died), a sibling, geth, an ardat yakshi, and a salarian. :innocent:

[Clonedzero]

jlb524 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

i just dont want every romance option to be bi, as thats not realistic at all.

So...what makes for realistic romances?

Include more than sexuality in your explanation.

people are different, people are unique, they have different tastes, preferences, idealogies, beliefs. having all characters share the same thing makes them less unique. less interesting.

i havent heard a compelling reason for them all to be bi other tahn "we dont wanna leave anyone out".

if you can give me a reason why all LI's should be bi thats NOT "so everyone can get who they want" i'll listen. otherwise im getting kinda sick of getting trolled.

[catharsisboo]

Clonedzero wrote...
been over this. go back a few pages.

Really? All I saw a few pages back was you saying Fenris getting raped by Danarius somehow makes him gay, and that him giving Hawke a compliment must actually mean "take me now, Ser Hawke". Nothing about Merrill, though.

bleetman wrote...
Well, that's a complicated question. In our
own space time, never. Not unless the player does it first, and even
then they need to hit that heart option a few times before they really
respond in kind.

I can only assume in the dimension cloned is
currently occupying, every line delivered by either characters consists
of them immediately ripping off their clothes and demanding Hawke take
them right there. Also, there may or may not be unicorns and/or
griffons.

Modifié par catharsisboo, 11 août 2011 - 02:49 .