25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Twizz089]

Abispa wrote...

catharsisboo wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
"merril hits on me, hmmm, alrighty"
"fenris hits on me. well damn who ISNT going to hit on me?"

Where in the game do Merrill and Fenris flirt with Hawke?

Dude, if I'm a guy, it is established lore that EVERY straight woman, gay man, and bisexual wants to mess with my junk.

Apparently there is a scene where Fenris pays Hawke a compliment and tells him/her not to take it the wrong way. Bioware then give the player the option to SAY s/he's taking it the wrong way. And since Fenris is "bi" we KNOW he's lying 'cause bisexuals want to mess with everybody's junk.

And in ME3 if Garrus were to use the same line and flirt with Shep, without Shep initiating the flirtation, even though in some players mind the character is a straight male you would see no problem with that?

[Ryzaki]

Oh ra.

I play dating sims.

They are not similar to ME. Just...no. No no no no no.

Play Frozen Essence (free english somewhat otome dating sim) or Re Alistair ++ They are NOT like ME2 at all. Just...NO.

[Clonedzero]

Erani wrote...

Plus percentages are flawed because gender of the PC was not taken into account or the impossibility of certain team members wanting to sleep/romance the PC such as dog, the golem, the elderly person, a krogan, a married dwarf (cannot condone adultery; guess ok if Branka died), a sibling, geth, an ardat yakshi, and a salarian. :innocent:

they're not flawed. teams should not consist mostly of possible LI's. thats just too much sexual tension lol
the non-LI's are the safest characters for them to write.

also you can totally romance that ardat yakshi, it just kills you, but you can still do it.

[jlb524]

Twizz089 wrote...
If this was the case I would have never seen the broken heart option when I talked to Merril or Fenris, since I never picked the heart option for either character

It seems that broken hearts don't always mean 'end a romance that has already started' but can also mean 'set a flag somewhere that you don't want to romance this character nor see anymore hearts'.

The one time I took the broken heart with Fenris, I'm pretty sure I didn't see anymore hearts after that (I could be wrong...I'd have to double check).  I took it as saying "I don't want to romance you ever and don't want to be bothered by avoiding heart clickings in the future" instead of rejecting an advance made by him.

I don't recall Merrill having a broken heart (until she comes to your estate...but you need to flirt with her at least once to trigger that) unless the dialog wheel is different with a MaleHawke (I only play female).

[bleetman]

Twizz089 wrote...

And in ME3 if Garrus were to use the same line and flirt with Shep, without Shep initiating the flirtation, even though in some players mind the character is a straight male you would see no problem with that?

I think I could cope with Garrus calling Shepard capable, yes.

Twizz089 wrote...

If this was the case I would have never seen the broken heart option when I talked to Merril or Fenris, since I never picked the heart option for either character

Sure you would, on account of the broken heart symbols showing up on occasion both to show which options will cause a breakup of a current romance, and which will prevent it from occuring to begin with.

Fenris calls Hawke "capable" during their first post-recruitment conversation, at which point Hawke can either flirt back or not flirt back. Merrill never says anything remotely approaching flirtatious unless Hawke does first, and even then her responses aren't exactly sizzling with innuendo. That's just how it is, regardless of whatever delusions people have generated for themselves.

[edit] Oh, it's capable, not competent. Still, not what I'd call amorous dialogue.

Modifié par bleetman, 11 août 2011 - 02:59 .

[Quething]

Twizz089 wrote...

Abispa wrote...

catharsisboo wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
"merril hits on me, hmmm, alrighty"
"fenris hits on me. well damn who ISNT going to hit on me?"

Where in the game do Merrill and Fenris flirt with Hawke?

Dude, if I'm a guy, it is established lore that EVERY straight woman, gay man, and bisexual wants to mess with my junk.

Apparently there is a scene where Fenris pays Hawke a compliment and tells him/her not to take it the wrong way. Bioware then give the player the option to SAY s/he's taking it the wrong way. And since Fenris is "bi" we KNOW he's lying 'cause bisexuals want to mess with everybody's junk.

And in ME3 if Garrus were to use the same line and flirt with Shep, without Shep initiating the flirtation, even though in some players mind the character is a straight male you would see no problem with that?

"If I knew Anso would find me a man so capable, I might have asked [for outside help] sooner."

Yes, scandalous, how he's throwing himself at you there.

[Twizz089]

jlb524 wrote...
It seems that broken hearts don't always mean 'end a romance that has already started' but can also mean 'set a flag somewhere that you don't want to romance this character nor see anymore hearts'.

The one time I took the broken heart with Fenris, I'm pretty sure I didn't see anymore hearts after that (I could be wrong...I'd have to double check).  I took it as saying "I don't want to romance you ever and don't want to be bothered by avoiding heart clickings in the future" instead of rejecting an advance made by him.

I don't recall Merrill having a broken heart (until she comes to your estate...but you need to flirt with her at least once to trigger that) unless the dialog wheel is different with a MaleHawke (I only play female).

In my time with the game the broken hearts showed up next to the hearts, after  the other character initiated the flirting.  This defeated the purpose of the broken hearts beause by the time they popped up the character had already "turned" gay.  This should not happen in ME3 where players could have their version of characters destroyed for the sake of making everyone bi.  The broken hearts need to appear BEFORE characters start coming out of the closet.

[Abispa]

Twizz089 wrote...

And in ME3 if Garrus were to use the same line and flirt with Shep, without Shep initiating the flirtation, even though in some players mind the character is a straight male you would see no problem with that?

Garrus already is a LI; when the hell does Garrus flirt with anybody?

[jlb524]

Clonedzero wrote...
people are different, people are unique, they have different tastes, preferences, idealogies, beliefs. having all characters share the same thing makes them less unique. less interesting.

So, the ME romances are less interesting b/c they share a sexuality (most have been overwhelmingly hetero)?  That means they also shared the same beliefs, preferences, idealogies, etc.?  Were they not different?

Just because all are bisexual doesn't mean they are sharing every other trait. 

Clonedzero wrote...
i havent heard a compelling reason for them all to be bi other tahn "we dont wanna leave anyone out".

if you can give me a reason why all LI's should be bi thats NOT "so everyone can get who they want" i'll listen. otherwise im getting kinda sick of getting trolled.

I'm telling you that they can make good romances that avoid all the issues you've raised and still have them all be bisexual.  You haven't proven otherwise.

It's not about everyone being able to get exactly who they want.  Remember, the majority of squad mates aren't even romance options.  It's about being able to unlock the romance content that is already added to the game and which doesn't take much effort to change up a bit so it fits with both genders.  This does give people more options...this is something most tend to like in roleplaying games, especially when concerning their own PC.  People want to define their PC by actions and that includes who they fall in love with.  If character X is perfect for their PC, why should gender limit it when everything else is a free for all?  If you prefer being limited in choice, then that's fine...that's your opinion.  I'm saying that it's a fact that most want more options/choices in their RPG though.

[bleetman]

Yes, let's look at those lines, shall we?

"Had I known Anso would find me a man/women so capable, I might have asked him to look sooner"

<Hawke gets the first option to flirt, or not>

And as for Merrill:

"I wanted to thank you for bringing me here, but I'm making a mess of it"

<Hawke gets the first option to flirt, or not>

Good grief yes, how embarrassingly forward of both of them. I feel dizzy. Is my nose bleeding?

Modifié par bleetman, 11 août 2011 - 03:05 .

[Twizz089]

Abispa wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

And in ME3 if Garrus were to use the same line and flirt with Shep, without Shep initiating the flirtation, even though in some players mind the character is a straight male you would see no problem with that?

Garrus already is a LI; when the hell does Garrus flirt with anybody?

Im talking about how if the DA system (The broken heart only came up after the character "came out the closet") was applied to characters like Garrus it could destroy the image of the character for some people.. keep up

[Clonedzero]

jlb524 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
people are different, people are unique, they have different tastes, preferences, idealogies, beliefs. having all characters share the same thing makes them less unique. less interesting.

So, the ME romances are less interesting b/c they share a sexuality (most have been overwhelmingly hetero)?  That means they also shared the same beliefs, preferences, idealogies, etc.?  Were they not different?

Just because all are bisexual doesn't mean they are sharing every other trait. 

Clonedzero wrote...
i havent heard a compelling reason for them all to be bi other tahn "we dont wanna leave anyone out".

if you can give me a reason why all LI's should be bi thats NOT "so everyone can get who they want" i'll listen. otherwise im getting kinda sick of getting trolled.

I'm telling you that they can make good romances that avoid all the issues you've raised and still have them all be bisexual.  You haven't proven otherwise.

It's not about everyone being able to get exactly who they want.  Remember, the majority of squad mates aren't even romance options.  It's about being able to unlock the romance content that is already added to the game and which doesn't take much effort to change up a bit so it fits with both genders.  This does give people more options...this is something most tend to like in roleplaying games, especially when concerning their own PC.  People want to define their PC by actions and that includes who they fall in love with.  If character X is perfect for their PC, why should gender limit it when everything else is a free for all?  If you prefer being limited in choice, then that's fine...that's your opinion.  I'm saying that it's a fact that most want more options/choices in their RPG though.

so, how can they make good romances that avoid all the issues ive raided adn still have them be bisexual? cus one of those issues happened to be the game breaking immersion snapping realization that every character romantically interested in mine all happen to be bisexual out of some coincidence.

you cant really go "its possible for this to happen, but im not going to say why because it invalidates my argument"

[Abispa]

Twizz089 wrote...

In my time with the game the broken hearts showed up next to the hearts, after  the other character initiated the flirting.  This defeated the purpose of the broken hearts beause by the time they popped up the character had already "turned" gay.  This should not happen in ME3 where players could have their version of characters destroyed for the sake of making everyone bi.  The broken hearts need to appear BEFORE characters start coming out of the closet.

Fenris said that he didn't want Hawke to think he was flirting, and at that point YOU, the player, can tell him whether or not you wanted to consider it a flirt. Until you intiate a romance, he could have just had second thoughts about how his compliment sounded and chose to do a more diplomatic version of "no ******, bro."

Of course, you don't believe him 'cause he's bisexual and bisexauls want everybody's junk.

So, your definition of realism is that a quote of LI are allowed to be bi, but there are NEVER supposed to be innocent comments that an interested player can take advantage of? I bet that similar situation where Shepard makes an innocent compliment to Miranda and she suddenly goes into heat must have REALLY cheesed you off.

Modifié par Abispa, 11 août 2011 - 03:08 .

[Clonedzero]

bleetman wrote...

Yes, let's look at those lines, shall we?

"Had I known Anso would find me a man/women so capable, I might have asked him to look sooner"

<Hawke gets the first option to flirt, or not>

And as for Merrill:

"I wanted to thank you for bringing me here, but I'm making a mess of it"

<Hawke gets the first option to flirt, or not>

Good grief yes, how embarrassingly forward of both of them. I feel dizzy. Is my nose bleeding?

sup, lets totally ignore tone of voice right? right? characters cant say one thing and imply something else with the tone of their voice right? that'd be downright crazy?!

[Abispa]

Clonedzero wrote...

sup, lets totally ignore tone of voice right? right? characters cant say one thing and imply something else with the tone of their voice right? that'd be downright crazy?!

Female Shepard SO wanted to grab Jacob's crotch during their first conversation on the Normandy.

[KawaiiKatie]

Twizz089 wrote...

Im talking about how if the DA system (The broken heart only came up after the character "came out the closet") was applied to characters like Garrus it could destroy the image of the character for some people..

Would you really think differently of Garrus if he reveals that he enjoys horizontal spelunking? He's still Garrus. He's still the guy that stood by your side and fought Reapers and Collectors and thresher maws and crazed biotic extremists and husks and everything else that's ever been thrown with you... If he reveals that he's bisexual or bi-curious or Shepard-curious or whatever the hell, will that really DESTROY your "image" of him?

....tolerance. Learn it.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 11 août 2011 - 03:11 .

[jlb524]

Clonedzero wrote...
so, how can they make good romances that avoid all the issues ive raided adn still have them be bisexual? cus one of those issues happened to be the game breaking immersion snapping realization that every character romantically interested in mine all happen to be bisexual out of some coincidence.

Have the PC initiate romance.  Like in most instances with DA2...not counting Fenris and Merrill out of paranoia.  If the knowledge that so and so is romanceable from a meta-perspective is 'ruining your immersion' then you aren't very immersed anyway. 

Clonedzero wrote...
you cant really go "its possible for this to happen, but im not going to say why because it invalidates my argument"

I just did say why it's possible.

Clonedzero wrote...
sup, lets totally ignore tone of voice right? right? characters cant say one thing and imply something else with the tone of their voice right? that'd be downright crazy?! [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/uncertain.png[/smilie]

What did their tone suggest? 

Modifié par jlb524, 11 août 2011 - 03:13 .

[Clonedzero]

Abispa wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

sup, lets totally ignore tone of voice right? right? characters cant say one thing and imply something else with the tone of their voice right? that'd be downright crazy?!

Female Shepard SO wanted to grab Jacob's crotch during their first conversation on the Normandy.

true femshep around jacob is one turned on lady

[Clonedzero]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

Im talking about how if the DA system (The broken heart only came up after the character "came out the closet") was applied to characters like Garrus it could destroy the image of the character for some people..

Would you really think differently of Garrus if he reveals that he enjoys horizontal spelunking? He's still Garrus. He's still the guy that stood by your side and fought Reapers and Collectors and thresher maws and crazed biotic extremists and husks and everything else that's ever been thrown with you... If he reveals that he's bisexual or bi-curious or Shepard-curious or whatever the hell, will that really DESTROY your "image" of him?

....tolerance. Learn it.

not of him. but of shepard and garrus' brotherly relationship.

nothing messes up a friendship faster than one person expressing feelings and the other not accepting them.

......tolerance, dont accuse others of being intolerant without understanding what they meant.

[Twizz089]

bleetman wrote...

Yes, let's look at those lines, shall we?

"Had I known Anso would find me a man/women so capable, I might have asked him to look sooner"

<Hawke gets the first option to flirt, or not>

And as for Merrill:

"I wanted to thank you for bringing me here, but I'm making a mess of it"

<Hawke gets the first option to flirt, or not>

Good grief yes, how embarrassingly forward of both of them. I feel dizzy. Is my nose bleeding?

Taken the lines out of context doesnt prove your point or disprove mine.  If Garrus, or any man for that matter comes up to me and says "Had I known Anso would find me a man so capable, I might have asked him to look sooner" while looking deep into my eyes, I would think that he is gay.  And what did he say after the rejection?  Clearly if you had to reject him that would mean he was flirting.

And I clearly remember Merrill getting sad after I rejected her, because I felt bad afterwards, if she didnt initiate the flirtation why did I have to reject her, and why did she look sad afterwards.  I dont want characters to start flirting with me if i am too nice, if you want the option to make characters gay, let me keep the option to make them straight, being nice should not turn everyone into a horny teenage.

Modifié par Twizz089, 11 août 2011 - 03:17 .

[KawaiiKatie]

Clonedzero wrote...
not of him. but of shepard and garrus' brotherly relationship.

nothing messes up a friendship faster than one person expressing feelings and the other not accepting them.

Knowing every gay relationship in all Bioware games ever, if your male Shepard doesn't feell "that way" about Garrus, even the Renegade option to reject him will be, "Sorry, but I don't swing that way." And Garrus will say, "It's cool, no hard feelings."

And then everyone will move on with their lives. The friendship will not be "ruined," just as my relationship with Tali wasn't "ruined" after I explained that I didn't feel "that way" about her.

If you want to consider the friendship "ruined," that's your deal. But I promise that Garrus will not hold it against you, or refuse to be your "bro" after you reject him.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 11 août 2011 - 03:19 .

[Quething]

Twizz089 wrote...
Clearly if you had to reject him that would mean he was flirting.

Um, no.

John: "Hey Jake. I've got tickets to the Wings game Friday, wanna come?"
Jake: "HOLY SH!T DUDE ARE YOU ASKING ME OUT NO ****** BRO I AIN'T INTO THAT KIND OF THING"
John: ".... ooo-kay. I'll just see if I can convince my wife, then."

[bleetman]

Twizz089 wrote...

And I clearly remember Merrill getting sad after I rejected her, because I felt bad afterwards, if she didnt initiate the flirtation why did I have to reject her, and why did she look sad afterwards.  I dont want characters to start flirting with me if i am too nice, if you want the option to make characters gay, let me keep the option to make them straight, being nice should not turn everyone into a horny teenage.

Probably because the particular line that grants a pre-emptive shut off of her romance is unashamedly rude. She tried to thank Hawke for the help, and Hawke throws it in her face. Anyone would be upset by that.

But apparently Hawke having the option to respond with a flirt or shutting off the romance makes the conversation beforehand also a flirt. Man, I'll have to remember that one.

Modifié par bleetman, 11 août 2011 - 03:21 .

[jlb524]

Twizz089 wrote...
Taken the lines out of context doesnt prove your point or disprove mine.  If Garrus, or any man for that matter comes up to me and says "Had I known Anso would find me a man so capable, I might have asked him to look sooner" while looking deep into my eyes, I would think that he is gay.  And what did he say after the rejection?  Clearly if you had to reject him that would mean he was flirting.

After you pick the 'broken heart' Fenris says, "I didn't mean anything by it."

There's also a neutral response...that's what I usually take...my Hawke's aren't super paranoid.

Twizz089 wrote...
And I clearly remember Merrill getting sad after I rejected her, because I felt bad afterwards, if she didnt initiate the flirtation why did I have to reject her, and why did she look sad afterwards.  I dont want characters to start flirting with me if i am too nice, if you want the option to make characters gay, let me keep the option to make them straight, being nice should not turn everyone into a horny teenage.

That happens when she comes to your estate in Act2. I know for sure that Merrill will not even come to your house unless you've picked at least one heart option.  ..at least for a female Hawke...I assume the mechanics work the same with males.  You must have flirted with her once.

So...anyone that flirts with you is a 'horny teenager'?

[catharsisboo]

Twizz089 wrote...
"Had I known Anso would find me a man so capable, I might have asked him to look sooner" while looking deep into my eyes, I would think that he is gay.

What.

WHAT.

A guy can't look you in the eye without being gay?