25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Abispa]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I always thought Sheploo was more of a "boxer briefs" type. But tightie-whities? I lol'd.

Actually, he wears nothing at all. That picture went through the Dragon Age: Origins filter.

couldent have theres not enough skin showing on the sides considering they wore thongs in DAO

Okay, DA:O filter post-DA2.

[gamer_girl]

Abispa wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I always thought Sheploo was more of a "boxer briefs" type. But tightie-whities? I lol'd.

Actually, he wears nothing at all. That picture went through the Dragon Age: Origins filter.

Well they could be advanced tech underwear that serve a secondary purpose. Jussayin'.

Modifié par gamer_girl, 11 août 2011 - 08:44 .

[Abispa]

gamer_girl wrote...

Well they could be advanced tech underwear that serve a secondary purpose. Jussayin'.

A figure a cool gift s/s Shepard could get from Kaidan would be a set of those red long underwear suits you always see in the classic cartoons. The one with the hatch back.

:innocent:

[gamer_girl]

Abispa wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

Well they could be advanced tech underwear that serve a secondary purpose. Jussayin'.

A figure a cool gift s/s Shepard could get from Kaidan would be a set of those red long underwear suits you always see in the classic cartoons. The one with the hatch back.

:innocent:

BAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh wow. That just made my day. That is a footy pajama butt flap WIN!

Modifié par gamer_girl, 11 août 2011 - 09:15 .

[shepskisaac]

Random thought: I'm gonna be so happy when I get Kaidan & Vega right after intro level! My poor GayShep was so lonely for the past 4 years yet this time both of the very first perma squaddies he will get in ME3 will most likely be potential LIs for him! And if Joker is one too, that would make 3! It's almost as if BioWare is trying to make it up for GaySheps by delivering all the bi & gay boys to them ASAP

Abispa wrote...

A figure a cool gift s/s Shepard could get from Kaidan would be a set of those red long underwear suits you always see in the classic cartoons. The one with the hatch back.

:innocent:

Wut? Gonna need pic of these cartoon pants xD No idea what you're talking about

Modifié par IsaacShep, 11 août 2011 - 10:01 .

[Clonedzero]

IsaacShep wrote...

Random thought: I'm gonna be so happy when I get Kaidan & Vega right after intro level! My poor GayShep was so lonely for the past 4 years yet this time both of the very first perma squaddies he will get in ME3 will most likely be potential LIs for him! And if Joker is one too, that would make 3! It's almost as if BioWare is trying to make it up for GaySheps by delivering all the bi & gay boys to them ASAP

Abispa wrote...

A figure a cool gift s/s Shepard could get from Kaidan would be a set of those red long underwear suits you always see in the classic cartoons. The one with the hatch back.

:innocent:

Wut? Gonna need pic of these cartoon pants xD No idea what you're talking about

but do you go for the known, the unknown, or wait for the unknown unknown :happy:

[shepskisaac]

Clonedzero wrote...
but do you go for the known, the unknown, or wait for the unknown unknown :happy:

My first Shep's going straight for the know ass he's been set on since ME1 Then my second Shep will go for the Vega boy

[gamer_girl]

IsaacShep wrote...

Random thought: I'm gonna be so happy when I get Kaidan & Vega right after intro level! My poor GayShep was so lonely for the past 4 years yet this time both of the very first perma squaddies he will get in ME3 will most likely be potential LIs for him! And if Joker is one too, that would make 3! It's almost as if BioWare is trying to make it up for GaySheps by delivering all the bi & gay boys to them ASAP

Abispa wrote...

A figure a cool gift s/s Shepard could get from Kaidan would be a set of those red long underwear suits you always see in the classic cartoons. The one with the hatch back.

:innocent:

Wut? Gonna need pic of these cartoon pants xD No idea what you're talking about

Here's a clip from Pajama Sam (used to play it when I was little) haha couldn't think of another place I could find one. Go to around 1:33 for a full 360 view. Basically because the pjs are a one piece they wanted to make the bathroom more accessible haha.

Modifié par gamer_girl, 11 août 2011 - 10:08 .

[Captain_Obvious]

http://www.cpsc.gov/...ml07/07557.html

Didn't want to imbed the link, but you get the idea. This is the toddler version. These are faily popular in Warner Bros. cartoons and the like. I knew exact what Abispa meant. :-)

[shepskisaac]

gamer_girl wrote...

Here's a clip from Pajama Sam (used to play it when I was little) haha couldn't think of another place I could find one. Go to around 1:33 for a full 360 view. Basically because the pjs are a one piece they wanted to make the bathroom more accessible haha.

Ohh my Shep would definitely want Kaidan to wear pants that would allow easy access

Modifié par IsaacShep, 11 août 2011 - 10:16 .

[gamer_girl]

IsaacShep wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

Here's a clip from Pajama Sam (used to play it when I was little) haha couldn't think of another place I could find one. Go to around 1:33 for a full 360 view. Basically because the pjs are a one piece they wanted to make the bathroom more accessible haha.

Ohh my Shep would definitely want Kaidan to wear pants that would allow easy access

Haha ya oh my gosh when Abispa first said that I pretty much burst out laughing. It's just so perfect. XD

[Abispa]

I believe Elmer Fudd would run around and one of the hatch buttons would always be undone, threatening to expose us to sights that should remain unseen.

EDIT: Um, to kind of tie it into ME3, uh...



Wow! That would be a great costume DLC for ME3... that can... um, be used for certain party members... (oh man, tie this into s/s discussion)... including Vega, who is a possible s/s character! Yeah, I did it!

Not sure if Woo is going to fall for that one...

Modifié par Abispa, 11 août 2011 - 11:45 .

[ElitePinecone]

IsaacShep wrote...
An insult is the fact that the decision to cut Ashley & Kaidan's gay romances from ME1 was made based on popularity and economics reasons.

Bioware aren't a charity, they're a company with a mandate to make good games on a fixed budget. 

What else would influence decisions, apart from economic reasons and the popularity with the audience? 

I mean, in Mass Effect they had already cut down - almost completely removed - the Caleston level, and I can think of a bunch of other areas that could've used some more polishing. 

They aren't obligated to provide their fans with anything - even more so if there isn't a compelling argument for it. The writers are definitely sympathetic to accomodating player choice, as we've seen, but ultimately the executive team are going to be fairly ruthless about what makes the game. 

Part of the reason this thread was created more than a year ago, perhaps even two years ago (as far as I'm aware) was to show that significant support existed for s/s romances that extended into a fair proportion of even heterosexual players who wanted more choice and variety in options. That there were significant reasons - other than 'it's unfair to not have s/s' - which would make putting s/s romances in the game worth the time and investment. 

Clearly, Bioware now sees an advantage in pursuing this path - but I think it's unrealistic to expect them to do anything out of the goodness of their hearts, or to be insulted if they cut whatever content they choose. 

The company isn't a crusading force for social activism, and they don't necessarily owe anything to their fans beyond making a good game. The challenge is to show them that it's worth it - economically and in terms of goodwill - to include such content. It might be brutal market economics, but it's reality. 

[Abispa]

@ ElitePinecone -- I pretty much agree with everything you said. I'm just expressing my wishes here, particularly because I feel it's my obligation as a heterosexual male to show that I don't consider the inclusion of s/s options to be a war against the "official" Straight Male Gamers, nor do I think Bioware has some moral obligation to NOT make former squad members s/s options IF IF IF they decide to make former squad members s/s options. More grievous "retcons" have been made in ME2 to actual established lore, not just gamer assumptions, and the game did pretty well and I, and millions of other ME fans, remained loyal to the franchise.

[Tommy6860]

Abispa wrote...

@ ElitePinecone -- I pretty much agree with everything you said. I'm just expressing my wishes here, particularly because I feel it's my obligation as a heterosexual male to show that I don't consider the inclusion of s/s options to be a war against the "official" Straight Male Gamers, nor do I think Bioware has some moral obligation to NOT make former squad members s/s options IF IF IF they decide to make former squad members s/s options. More grievous "retcons" have been made in ME2 to actual established lore, not just gamer assumptions, and the game did pretty well and I, and millions of other ME fans, remained loyal to the franchise.

And I don't have a problem with making what were perceived as straight characters, to having become bi-sexual or even exclusively homosexual in ME3. I wouldn't consider it retconning or giving fanservice, as long as the writing for the character is well done. Who's to say that along the story path, a sense of self-relevation comes about with Ashley, for example, that her experiences in talking with femShep about her romances and relationships, is cause for her to stop hiding behind her regligious beliefs. Same with Kaiden as well.

As far as feeling "obligated", I kind of disagree, there shouldn't be an obligation of sorts because you're straight and want to help express the considerations, and I am straight as well. I think that meaningful relationships are inherently straight-up and true blue, regardless of orientation, I just support love in the interest of itself, one's sexual orientation is just a cool vehicle to express that love .. It's just too bad we need to differentiate ourselves along the lines of who we are sexually when we are really the same anyway, especailly when it comes to being in love.

[Abispa]

I would like ME3 romances to be well written enough to "buy" them in context of the game I'm playing, in this case a FPS RPG where you can apparently travel to the stars within hours, be brought back from the dead by "all the top scientists" within two years, blow up a "human reaper" with two buddies armed with machine guns, and have sex with different species that evolved on an entirely different planet.

I am not so obsessed with my straight relationships that I see them as anything more than a way to customize and accessorize MY Shepard in HIS/HER story I built for them using the choice Bioware provides me. I have no problem with s/s fans getting their own choices recognized, even if those choices involve Garrus, Tali, the VS, or Wreav.

Most of all, I don't want ME3 players to feel cheated if they DON'T romance ANYONE. Romance is an OPTION in ME3 and should not overwhelm the rest of the game.

Modifié par Abispa, 12 août 2011 - 01:52 .

[Quething]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Bioware aren't a charity, they're a company with a mandate to make good games on a fixed budget. 

What else would influence decisions, apart from economic reasons and the popularity with the audience? 

I mean, in Mass Effect they had already cut down - almost completely removed - the Caleston level, and I can think of a bunch of other areas that could've used some more polishing. 

They aren't obligated to provide their fans with anything - even more so if there isn't a compelling argument for it. The writers are definitely sympathetic to accomodating player choice, as we've seen, but ultimately the executive team are going to be fairly ruthless about what makes the game. 

Part of the reason this thread was created more than a year ago, perhaps even two years ago (as far as I'm aware) was to show that significant support existed for s/s romances that extended into a fair proportion of even heterosexual players who wanted more choice and variety in options. That there were significant reasons - other than 'it's unfair to not have s/s' - which would make putting s/s romances in the game worth the time and investment. 

Clearly, Bioware now sees an advantage in pursuing this path - but I think it's unrealistic to expect them to do anything out of the goodness of their hearts, or to be insulted if they cut whatever content they choose. 

The company isn't a crusading force for social activism, and they don't necessarily owe anything to their fans beyond making a good game. The challenge is to show them that it's worth it - economically and in terms of goodwill - to include such content. It might be brutal market economics, but it's reality.

I don't get this.

I mean, you're not wrong, but I don't really understand why you're not wrong. We as a culture have absolutely no problem whatsoever with demanding social responsibility from any other industry. We require industrial corporations to meet environmental standards. We demand that automobile companies meet safety standards. We don't let people build power plants that might kill everyone in the neighborhood or destroy a condemned building in a way that might hurt workers or bystanders.

But for some reason, not only do we never make the same expectation of art, we actually encourage artists to get offended by the idea of social responsibility. I mean, can you imagine the manager of a car company ever getting up and saying "you want seat belts? This is a car, not a bloody life jacket," and seeing the whole consumer base standing up and cheering, the way the whole fanbase for a game will stand up and cheer a game producer being like "quit complaining about the sexism, this is just a video game"?

It's weird.

Edit: And I suppose that's dangerously close to "real-world politics" or whatever, so to keep on game topic, I agree with Abispa that new romances with ME2 characters are unlikely. There are just too many of them and too many of them might be dead in too many games to make the dev time worth it; BioWare will do a lot of little easter eggs that only six players will ever see (snarky!Hawke's absolutely goddam hilarious monologue after leaving the Chantry fight in Act II with no party), but a romance is not so small an investment. I'd say they might risk it with Garrus and Tali, who seem to be alive in more games than most, but the Garrus and Tali fanbases seem particularly opposed to s/s content with their toon of choice in a way that other characters like Kaidan and Miranda don't generate, so I doubt BioWare would push it with those folks. So, it's probably Joker, VS or nothin'.

Much as I'd love to hook up with Kasumi

Modifié par Quething, 12 août 2011 - 07:41 .

[ElitePinecone]

Quething wrote...
We as a culture have absolutely no problem whatsoever with demanding social responsibility from any other industry. We require industrial corporations to meet environmental standards. We demand that automobile companies meet safety standards. We don't let people build power plants that might kill everyone in the neighborhood or destroy a condemned building in a way that might hurt workers or bystanders.

But for some reason, not only do we never make the same expectation of art, we actually encourage artists to get offended by the idea of social responsibility. I mean, can you imagine the manager of a car company ever getting up and saying "you want seat belts? This is a car, not a bloody life jacket," and seeing the whole consumer base standing up and cheering, the way the whole fanbase for a game will stand up and cheer a game producer being like "quit complaining about the sexism, this is just a video game"?

It's weird.

I'm wary of veering into real-world politics here, but for the record I just want to note that while I'll defend companies from any formal obligation to include certain content, more often than not the pressure from the media and gamers themselves when things are or aren't included is often so intense as to cause an obligation anyway. Or, as is more likely, the developers themselves are conscious of - or even sympathetic to - many of the things that one would presumably want to see reflected in video games. 

Art has always kept up with social change - many would say it's often lead it - and we rightfully laugh at games (or movies, or books, or whatever else) that portray the world in a way that bizarrely tries to whitewash modern attitudes. 

While governments can, and should, mandate for things like seat belts or safety laws in workplaces, it's far more murky when they dabble in artistic expression, even a form so consumer-oriented as many video games are. To wit: environmental legislation for corporations or seatbelt mandates for car companies contribute directly to human health and biodiversity.

I can rarely - if ever - support limitations placed on artists just because it's suggested they aren't 'socially conscious enough' in their work. More often than not the attitudes of their audience, and changing social values generally, will drag even the most anachronistic out of some pre-enlightened swamp. Even if this doesn't happen, limits shouldn't be placed on what people can produce - the burden lies on the rest of society to point out clearly and reasonably why they are wrong. 

To keep this on topic:

I think new romances with ME2 characters are also unlikely. Apart from the whole 'dead' thing, it looks like their roles will be small enough that it would be difficult to fit it in believably. I can't imagine why Bioware would write a long and complicated re-romance scene for a character who might've died in the second game. If people want to romance an ME2 character, they should romance them in ME2 or use the comic-import that will presumably come with ME3. 

[jlb524]

I think the people that claim ME shouldn't become a 'dating sim' tend to spend the most time
overestimating how much romances actually effect the game. It's a pretty tiny part.

I find this humorous.

Modifié par jlb524, 12 août 2011 - 08:11 .

[BrandNewMan]

Quething wrote...

(snarky!Hawke's absolutely goddam hilarious monologue after leaving the Chantry fight in Act II with no party)

Is there a youtube video of this? Don't have the game myself, but I'm interested in some hilarity.

[Quething]

@Pinecone: Well, obviously, I wouldn't want to legislate art. Goes against every principle I believe in, even if it were possible to agree on what is socially responsible in art the way it's possible to agree that seat belts or OSHA regs are. But not legislating doesn't mean not caring. I'm not talking about punishing anybody for not doing anything; that's not the kind of obligation I mean. I mean the same kind of obligation that we impose on a company to make a good game, period. If you make a crappy game that sells like gangbusters, no one can say you've done anything wrong - you're not inherently inferior to a company that makes a fantastic game that sells ten thousand copies (poor BG&E ;_, and in fact you're serving your stockholders better, so by some standards you're actually superior to them. But fans and critics are still going to get on your case for having made a bad game. Because just because it isn't wrong to make a bad game, doesn't mean we gamers don't still discourage it as a culture. And it's clear BioWare themselves do want to push the envelope and be more than mindless time-killing; look at Legion's loyalty mission, at the climactic choice on Noveria. If that's not a company that wants to stretch the consumer's mind a little, there isn't one. Shouldn't we support that? Hold them to their own standard?

I'm proud of BioWare for adding genuine, no-excuses, female and male s/s content to ME3. I'm here posting in this thread to let them know that it makes me happy as a consumer, and more willing to give them money. But I don't think that makes it irrelevant or less disappointing that said content ended up on the chopping block in ME1. And that's worth telling them, too.

@BrandNewMan: Sadly I haven't been able to find it. If I could get Growler Gamecam to work, I'd make one myself, but >.<

Modifié par Quething, 12 août 2011 - 08:54 .

[ElitePinecone]

Quething wrote...
Shouldn't we support that? Hold them to their own standard?

I'm proud of BioWare for adding genuine, no-excuses, female and male s/s content to ME3. I'm here posting in this thread to let them know that it makes me happy as a consumer, and more willing to give them money. But I don't think that makes it irrelevant or less disappointing that said content ended up on the chopping block in ME1. And that's worth telling them, too.

Most definitely - and I agree. 

While I appreciate the reasons Bioware has (or, had) for cutting s/s on an objective level, it doesn't make my personal disappointment any less. 

Like it or not they're identified - by others and even by themselves - as a company that pushes boundaries and includes what are, for the industry, relatively mature and sophisticated storylines. It would be unfortunate if this were to be scaled back in pursuit of a wider audience, and I think a fair segment of Bioware's current fanbase - and a large proportion of their oldest fans - would view this very negatively. 

It's telling that the reaction from the vast majority of fans on the forum - and nearly unanimously in the media - to the inclusion of s/s in ME3 has been apathetic or positive. Bioware fans are, I'd suggest, more likely to appreciate wider choice for its own sake and less likely to become overzealously concerned about an option that they don't need to pick. Alas, there are always exceptions. 

[silentassassin264]

"What kind of damage sends these daft freaks wandering into the streets talking to them...selves... Ahem!"

LMAO. I would have never seen that.

Modifié par silentassassin264, 12 août 2011 - 09:06 .

[gamer_girl]

@ElitePinecone
I would agree with you if it weren't for the inclusion of choice in this game. To include the option for romantic relations and give the vast majority to straight people and have absolutely no m/m indeed comes off as discriminatory. They strive to remove this implied judgement. How they're going to do that with 10+ romance options is still a mystery to me, but it isn't something BW takes lightly.

Modifié par gamer_girl, 12 août 2011 - 12:13 .

[Erani]

I agree with both Pinecone and gamer_girl. Establishing constraints on art make it...not art...but you have an important part of a game, such as choices are to RPGs, and there's several options to engage in o/s romance with 1 option of f/f and no m/m...then I have a problem with it (on several levels) but mainly because could it really have hurt sales that much to have MShep/Kaidan in ME1?

Now, BioWare is, I think, extremely progressive on social and gender issues. Very few non-BioWare RPGs allow me to play as a female or have a same-sex interaction with an NPC. That's why I've never been too critical of ME for not having m/m or saying Liara was not really f/f, but of course I'm very happy and proud of BioWare for having s/s options for both genders in ME3.