25715 réponses à ce sujet

[jeweledleah]

from a writer - I believe this is Patrick Weeks

Both Shepard voice actors recorded both sides of the romance. The romance dialog was included in the main follower conversation file, and ultimately, it was considered faster just to have the actor do a take on every dialog line, regardless of whether it was one that would ever fire in game, than to spend part of the VO session trying to figure out whether a given line was on the romance track or not.

Once the lines were recorded, there was a brief high-level discussion about whether we should make Kaiden and Ashley bisexual, since the lines were already there. The leads decided not to do it. The lines work on a technical level, but they didn't do justice to the characters and sounded very strange sometimes. Beyond that, there were questions about having to do a different cutscene for different genders.

But to be clear, it was never part of the plan. It was only briefly considered after the lines were recorded, and it was only recorded because it was easier and faster than marking some lines as "Hale only records".

I wanted to repost this and underline specific key phrases for emphasis. no the romances were not originally planned. they were considered after recording Shepard's lines but ultimately not followed through with... due to artistic vision constrains. I'm guessing they no longer had time to rewrite it properly.

link in my signature.

so no, it wasn't due to them worrying about hurting sales.

no idea why it wasn't implemented in ME2. too many LI's as it is maybe?

[shepskisaac]

When I saw your name in "Last Post" of this thread I was like no way! Jeweledleah supporting?! And then of course I see the same old quote. Well, at least it actually further verifies the fact that if it wasn't for the time constraints and small size (thus importance towards sales) of the gay community, Ash/Kaidan would've been available for s/s romances since the beginning.

[jeweledleah]

sigh.. I love how you can read "it was never part of the plan" and interpret it as "it was part of the plan from the beginning"

no matter. I was never against s/s relationships. on the contrary.

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...

sigh.. I love how you can read "it was never part of the plan" and interpret it as "it was part of the plan from the beginning"

Well, I love how you seem to think that just because it wasn't part of the plan from the totally very beginning it is somehow less valid.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Yeah, it being part of the plan from the beginning and it being discussed briefly when the lines were already recorded are two different things. It wasn't really their intention when recording the lines, is what jeweledleah was trying to say. It was a brief afterthought that got shot down.

[jeweledleah]

Thank you Rinji, its exactly what I was trying to say.

[shepskisaac]

I know that. My point is the reasons why it got shot down.

[jeweledleah]

and the reasons it got shot down is because they simply didn't have time, resources, whatever to write in optional content that wasn't originally planned anyway. they already had to remove an entire hub that WAS in fact planned due to time and budget constraints (part of it got reused for Liara's recruitment mission, and the building got eventually used in Bring down the sky dlc) in other words. they do not have social responsibility that somehow outweighs their artistic vision and they didn't do it due to social pressure or some strange need to be politically correct. if anything the entire player base got the short end of the stick for ending up with the short tunnel that is Therum level, instead of the bigger, more interesting hub.

[lovgreno]

I agree with She Hulk but even so I think it shows that ss has always been something the developers at least had in mind, among many other kinds of stuff.

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...

they do not have social responsibility that somehow outweighs their artistic vision and they didn't do it due to social pressure or some strange need to be politically correct.

Of course they don't have any social responsibility. But they're making an RPG, or at least a game in which their primary goal was allowing freedom for the players to mold their character the way the players would want to with multiple choices & options even if they knew some wouldn't be popular at all (for example, they know tech classes are always being rolled by great minority of gamers and soldier/warrior clases are always dominating in RPGs) or even if they're completely uninterested in these choices themselves.

[Xilizhra]

It scarcely matters. ME1 was weak in an area where ME3 will now be strong.

[Captain_Obvious]

jeweledleah wrote...

they do not have social responsibility that somehow outweighs their artistic vision and they didn't do it due to social pressure or some strange need to be politically correct.

They do have a social responsibility that requires a change of initial parameters if they want to be inclusive of LGBT people (you could also add traditional role-players, but I don't have any statistics on that).  They did not want to be inclusive to LGBT people in ME1 or ME2 for whatever reason, be it time, money, scripting, or whatever, hence the no M/M love interests.  I'm glad they have decided to be inclusive for ME3.  One of my Sheploo's been mightly lonely. 

[bleetman]

I find it interesting that s/s was described as being decided against at the time due to how the recorded dialogue "didn't do justice to the characters and sounded very strange sometimes". They sounded much the same as all the other dialogue to me.

*shrugs*

[Quething]

jeweledleah wrote...

they do not have social responsibility that somehow outweighs their artistic vision

You say that like those two things are incompatible.

Anyway Isaac didn't say "planned from the beginning," he said "would have been there from the beginning," which is true; if they had decided to go through with it in ME1, there would have been s/s from the beginning of the series.

Well, there's Liara obvoiusly, but she's not female so it doesn't count. <_<

Point is, that content was not a priority for them; they didn't discuss it from the beginning, they decided it wasn't feasable once it did occur to them. That didn't have to be true. It wasn't in Jade Empire, it wasn't in either Dragon Age, it isn't in ME3. It wasn't even in KotOR. So, why in ME1 and 2? Why is their first franchise set in the future the one behind the curve? That ME3 is better doesn't make that question go away or make it any less important; if it did, the existence of Juhani and Sky would have guaranteed s/s content in ME1.

The original Caleston architecture ended up being the BDtS bunker where you fight Balak, right? I always thought it was funny that the level they used in one of the major trailers ended up the one cut. You'd think it would be easier to promo a nearly-finished hub than one that's still in very early dev.

Modifié par Quething, 12 août 2011 - 05:26 .

[Erani]

bleetman wrote...

I find it interesting that s/s was described as being decided against at the time due to how the recorded dialogue "didn't do justice to the characters and sounded very strange sometimes". They sounded much the same as all the other dialogue to me.

*shrugs*

This. 

[Clonedzero]

bleetman wrote...

I find it interesting that s/s was described as being decided against at the time due to how the recorded dialogue "didn't do justice to the characters and sounded very strange sometimes". They sounded much the same as all the other dialogue to me.

*shrugs*

while i havent heard the dialogue, i can easily see it sounding very weird. the writers and creators did, so i trust them.

[BrandNewMan]

I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that Ashley and Kaidan would have been bisexual with enough time and resources. It was never stated that that would be the case.

[Quething]

bleetman wrote...

I find it interesting that s/s was described as being decided against at the time due to how the recorded dialogue "didn't do justice to the characters and sounded very strange sometimes". They sounded much the same as all the other dialogue to me.

*shrugs*

Weeeeell...

femShep's parting words to Ashley once romanced are nowhere near as sexy and tension-laden as the non-romancing "dimsissed, Chief"?

Yeah, that's all I got.

[bleetman]

What are femshep's parting words to Ashley once romanced? I never did get around to actually tinkering with my saved game, so all I've heard was what was on a youtube video.

Modifié par bleetman, 12 août 2011 - 05:49 .

[shepskisaac]

BrandNewMan wrote...

I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that Ashley and Kaidan would have been bisexual with enough time and resources. It was never stated that that would be the case.

But it was stated "we're dropping the idea because we have no time to write the dialogues and create mo-capping for male/male cutscene". So yeah, it ain't a stretch.

[BrandNewMan]

IsaacShep wrote...

BrandNewMan wrote...

I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that Ashley and Kaidan would have been bisexual with enough time and resources. It was never stated that that would be the case.

But it was stated "we're dropping the idea because we have no time to write the dialogues and create mo-capping for male/male cutscene". So yeah, it ain't a stretch.

It was never declared as the only roadblock.

Modifié par BrandNewMan, 12 août 2011 - 06:41 .

[shepskisaac]

BrandNewMan wrote...

It was never declared as the only roadblock.

Other roadblocks were not mention and since time constraints were stated twice as the reason, I would be silly to think "ohh right it's totally something different".

[ArawnNox]

Quething wrote...

bleetman wrote...

I find it interesting that s/s was described as being decided against at the time due to how the recorded dialogue "didn't do justice to the characters and sounded very strange sometimes". They sounded much the same as all the other dialogue to me.

*shrugs*

Weeeeell...

femShep's parting words to Ashley once romanced are nowhere near as sexy and tension-laden as the non-romancing "dimsissed, Chief"?

Yeah, that's all I got.

Well, yeah, once the romance happens the sexual tension is kinda gone, isn't it? *smirk*

[BrandNewMan]

IsaacShep wrote...

BrandNewMan wrote...

It was never declared as the only roadblock.

Other roadblocks were not mention and since time constraints were stated twice as the reason, I would be silly to think "ohh right it's totally something different".

The stretch lies in assuming that time and resources were the only things keeping it from happening. In the end, Bioware could have still decided to not include it for a number of other reasons had that particular roadblock not existed. It was a short post about a short conversation, so it's entirely possible (and likely) that not all factors were considered.

[shepskisaac]

BrandNewMan wrote...

The stretch lies in assuming that time and resources were the only things keeping it from happening. In the end, Bioware could have still decided to not include it for a number of other reasons had that particular roadblock not existed. It was a short post about a short conversation, so it's entirely possible (and likely) that not all factors were considered.

The stretch lies in assuming there's more to it despite two different accounts from BW not mentioning anything else.