25715 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

TheShadowWolf911 wrote...
snip

Anders did have a psychotic spirit inside him, remember... 

I'm not saying it's a perfect solution, but there's considerable momentum behind having certain former squadmates reappear as s/s options, and on the scale of 'screwing with continuity' it's very far down on the list. 

I could nominate the Tali/Garrus romances, for example - jumping all over Shepard (in the case of Tali) or responding positively to Shepard's advances (for Garrus) - when there was little if any evidence of an attraction in the first game. Then there's all the pseudo-scientific continuity errors between ME and ME2 (shields, for example, or quarian immune systems, or even the genophage). 

It would be relatively easy to write a plausible romance in which the Virmire survivor responds positively to an advance by Shepard. It has the added bonus of keeping the characters' sexuality ambiguous until you pick the option. If you don't make your Shepard proposition the character, you'll never know what the answer would've been. 

[TheShadowWolf911]

bas_kon wrote...

TheShadowWolf911 wrote...

in ME you are likely right, but there is a example i'd like to call them out on.

Oghren while arguing with Anders made a suggestion that a Templar was about to have his way with anders, which discusted him.

it might be a stretch, but to be fair, they did kinda alter him immensely character wise (more angsty, less upbeat and silly, etc)

Personally, I didn't understand it like that. I always thought he was disgusted because Oghren spoke about a templar, not because he was a man(it could perfectly be a female templar). Plus, later on we learned that his hate for templars corrupted justice into vengance, turning him from snarky and funny, to annoying and dull as hell (that change was NOT because he wanted to woo hawke as some people said)

so
Anders = Funny
Anders Corrupting Justin = Cloud and Squall?

[Ryzaki]

Ugh. Don't compare that prat from DA2 to Mc Awesome Squall. Bleh.

And I never saw the joke as because it was a male but rather because it was alluding to rape. That's kind of not something people tend find attractive or pleasant.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 août 2011 - 01:03 .

[TheShadowWolf911]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ugh. Don't compare that prat from DA2 to Mc Awesome Squall. Bleh.

And I never saw the joke as because it was a male but rather because it was alluding to rape. That's kind of not something people tend find attractive or pleasant.  

Squall? awesome? 'proceeds to laugh' if we must praise a FF protaganist, praise one of the non emo ones, Zidane is a good one.



as for the thing about rape........yeah, you got me there.

[Ryzaki]

TheShadowWolf911 wrote...
Squall? awesome? 'proceeds to laugh' if we must praise a FF protaganist, praise one of the non emo ones, Zidane is a good one.



as for the thing about rape........yeah, you got me there.

Just because you have no taste isn't my fault

[bas_kon]

TheShadowWolf911 wrote...

so
Anders = Funny
Anders Corrupting Justin = Cloud and Squall?

I loved FFVIII that was my first RPG ever!! I even had a crush on Rinoa (she looked like my first girlfriend),
and I liked Squall as a character, didn't like cloud, though.
As for
Justice, I didn't like him when he was in the warden's corpse in awakening nor inside
Anders in DA2, I just don't like him as a character. Liked Anders, though (when he doesn't talke about mages).

And for a person to be or become bi it's not necesary to change anything about him/herself since I found out my bisexuality some years ago and I want to romance Kaidan with my male bi-shepard more than anyone else, while IRL I've been in a relationship with a girl for more than five years now. That doesn't mean I can't look at handsome men as well as beautiful women every now and then, and don't tell me I'm a retcon lol.

[Abispa]

EDIT: Sorry, I missed the posts where this was dealt with. Don't want to beat a dead horse.

Modifié par Abispa, 13 août 2011 - 02:37 .

[Abispa]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Has it been confirmed that ME2 characters arent going to be permament squaddies?

I had thought the only confirmed ones were Liara, Tali, Garrus, and the VS. That doesnt mean others wont be in it I think Mordin is pretty much guaranteed IMO to be a perma squaddie.

No, but a panel did say it would have been impossible to make them all permanent because of all the variables. I assumed the variables would be 1) they could be dead, and 2) there are too many characters ("Dammit! What were we thinking!?").

I'm guessing the ME2 only cast will get LofSB treatment, although, because of the number of them, I expect some of those side-missions will probably feature more than one ME2-only member (like a single side mission for Miranda and/or Jacob, or one for Conrad Vernor and/or Thane). I also assume you'll be able to have a romantic moment with a LI at the end of it.

Of course, this could all be completely wrong since it's speculation on my part, influenced by bits I pick up at Gamestop, IGN, and Game Informer.

[shepskisaac]

Kaidan fans, check this out! diraemythos.deviantart.com/#/d46dbon

[Clonedzero]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ugh. Don't compare that prat from DA2 to Mc Awesome Squall. Bleh.

And I never saw the joke as because it was a male but rather because it was alluding to rape. That's kind of not something people tend find attractive or pleasant.  

how can anyone like squall? he was such an emo little twit. i mean the kid was so emo they have a stupid (utterly painful part to playthrough btw) concert to cheer him up  at one point in the game.

i was just waiting for when he slits his wrists and the game starts blasting indie emo music.
and the rest of the cast, and the story of FF8, ugh i could rage all day about how bad that game was. so ill shut up now before i go on a rant lol

[shepskisaac]

Can we please not talk about FF "men" here? This is about manly guys from Mass Effect, not some twinks that look like tween girls

[Ryzaki]

Clonedzero wrote...

how can anyone like squall? he was such an emo little twit. i mean the kid was so emo they have a stupid (utterly painful part to playthrough btw) concert to cheer him up  at one point in the game.

i was just waiting for when he slits his wrists and the game starts blasting indie emo music.
and the rest of the cast, and the story of FF8, ugh i could rage all day about how bad that game was. so ill shut up now before i go on a rant lol

Whatever. 
He wasn't emo. He liked to be alone. Then that twit Rinoa ruine dhim. <_<

[Quething]

 What even is going on in here? <_< If not on-topic, can we all at least try to be a little respectful?

Though on-topic doesn' t hurt either. I'm going to call that tweet another pretty sold tonnage of evidence slapped on the "VS for s/s" pile, which my incurable Ashmancing is well pleased by.

But it does make me wonder a great deal about Tali and Garrus.

[shepskisaac]

I'm a bit confused why are people interpreting the tweet as related to s/s romances. I was asking about o/s romances (on behalf of a poster from other thread) being possible to start again in ME3. Could my question be interpreted by Mac as about s/s romances?

[Quething]

Not so much that, as that it seems unlikely they'd introduce a new purely o/s romance. Whether with a new character or otherwise.

[shepskisaac]

Quething wrote...

Not so much that, as that it seems unlikely they'd introduce a new purely o/s romance. Whether with a new character or otherwise.

Hmmm true. Guess the same goes for purely s/s romances. IMO it's just kind of pointless to have new o/s romances with old LIs. I mean, they are already romancable. And everyone will be able to pick them in the choices generator (whether it will be a comic or the trial). I guess it's for the new players, so they don't end up with only Vega & new famale as the sole in-game romance options.

Anyway, I'm skeptical of the quality of s/s romances with old LIs now (Ash/Kaidan). I'm smelling copy+paste job from new o/s romances all over it. And considering how different the set-up for the two is, since there WAS an option to o/s romance Ash/Kaidan thus if the players didn't, it means they had to turn Ash/Kaidan down at some point. That's different than in the potential s/s scenario, where there was never any turning down in the first place.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 13 août 2011 - 04:30 .

[jeweledleah]

IsaacShep wrote...

Quething wrote...

Not so much that, as that it seems unlikely they'd introduce a new purely o/s romance. Whether with a new character or otherwise.

Hmmm true. Guess the same goes for purely s/s romances. IMO it's just kind of pointless to have new o/s romances with old LIs. I mean, they are already romancable. And everyone will be able to pick them in the choices generator (whether it will be a comic or the trial). I guess it's for the new players, so they don't end up with only Vega & new famale as the sole in-game romance options.

Anyway, I'm skeptical of the quality of s/s romances with old LIs now (Ash/Kaidan). I'm smelling copy+paste job from new o/s romances all over it. And considering how different the set-up for the two is, since there WAS an option to o/s romance Ash/Kaidan thus if the players didn't, it means they had to turn Ash/Kaidan down at some point. That's different than in the potential s/s scenario, where there was never any turning down in the first place.

who are you and what did you do to IsaacShep.  becasue you are starting to sound like me right now.  THIS were exactly my concerns that I've been voicing for months.  I don't know whether to laugh or cry now that you are coming to the same realization

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...

who are you and what did you do to IsaacShep.  becasue you are starting to sound like me right now.  THIS were exactly my concerns that I've been voicing for months.  I don't know whether to laugh or cry now that you are coming to the same realization

I *surely* haven't seen you being concerned gay romance with Kaidan will suffer because of existance of new straight romance with him.

[jeweledleah]

IsaacShep wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

who are you and what did you do to IsaacShep.  becasue you are starting to sound like me right now.  THIS were exactly my concerns that I've been voicing for months.  I don't know whether to laugh or cry now that you are coming to the same realization

I *surely* haven't seen you being concerned gay romance with Kaidan will suffer because of existance of new straight romance with him.

I was concerned about the other side of it, but copy paste, is copy paste.  it sucks either way you look at it.  and it is a character derailment based on everything that we know, including the fact that for oposite sex relationships rejection already happened once, so dynamic between them is already different - something I've been tyring to say from the start when explaining the difficulties of implementing s/s romance with certain existing LI's (which is what makes Jacob a better candidate IMO - he doesn't hit on Shepard and he's not originaly actively interested, so there is no need to explain anything really - he's one of the few characters for whom copy paste while still sucking, will actualy work.  Garrus being another).  but concidering Horizon and its handling?  oh yeah, welcome to your copy pasted romance, now with better voice over.  isn't that what you wanted?<_<

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...
 something I've been tyring to say from the start when explaining the difficulties of implementing s/s romance with certain existing LI's

Urhm what exactly would be a difficulty with implementing gay romance with Kaidan if there wasn't new straight romance with him, and only a continuation of the old one from ME1? Jacob would be the same, he would also have a continuation of the old romance and entirely new s/s romance. I really don't get what you're talking about now. I wasn't advocating for having new straight romance?

Modifié par IsaacShep, 13 août 2011 - 04:54 .

[bleetman]

Eh, the s/s romances in Bioware games I've played (which isn't all of the romances, but a fair amount) haven't been especially 'copy 'n' paste' between the two genders. Liara's was, ish, but it never really come across as being designed with one gender in mind and then quickly slapped onto the other.

If I was interested in being difficult, I'd also suggest that arguing characters would be interested in Shepard as a person first and as a gender second is probably going to result in considerable overlap, resource issues and whatnot aside.

Modifié par bleetman, 13 août 2011 - 05:00 .

[Abispa]

"Who are you and what did you do to IsaacShep? Becasue you are starting to sound like me right now."

@ Jeweledleah -- Maybe IsaacShep has been exposed to gamma radiation. Perhaps Gay Hulk and She Hulk have similar ME outlooks?

Modifié par Abispa, 13 août 2011 - 05:05 .

[jeweledleah]

aah, right, so you are basically exactly what you accuse other people to be. you don't want others to have choices, you want YOU to have a choice that was denied to you. you are just looking at it from the same sex perspective so I guess its ok to deny players choices, as long as your choices gets covered. you are exactly like the people who don't want same sex romances to be implemented.

I've said from the start that if they implement new romances with old LI's and open them up to be bisexual? they would have to open them up for both Shepards and THERE lays a difficulty. because you have to write them differently. you are essentially writing 2 new romances, not one (and that's in addition to writing continuing romance).

with Jacob, Garrus, Thane and even Miranda - you can actually copy paste them both. even if its a cheap solution (and judging by precedent of DA2 - its the favorite one - they just replaced like one or 2 gender specific words here and there, copy pasted the rest) - at least with some characters it works because in their case all of initiating was done purely by Shepard.

with Kaidan, Ashley, Tali, Jack - it doesn't work. why? because they are the ones who initiate anything, they are the ones who put it all out in a open. and Shepard does accepting or rejecting. which changes the dynamic with Shepards that they didn't offer anything to, shepards they friend-zoned, or just told to leave them alone (in case of Jack). in order for those romances to actually feel even semi believable, they cannot be copy pasted. they have to be written differently. its pretty work intensive. so you say - write same sex romances only? but I thought we were talking about more options here, more choices?

THIS is why I'm a supporter of new romances, same sex or otherwise, only being available with either new characters, or characters that weren't LI's in a past (like Joker, who also has a plot armor as good as Liara's, so he'll be there for everyone).

P.S.  my prediction right now.  the new romances are going to be very deliberately non gender specific, with characters rarely if ever awknoleding Shepard as anything other then Shepard.  there might be one or to beautiful/handsome comments, but that would be the extent of the difference between romances.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 13 août 2011 - 05:10 .

[Xilizhra]

with Kaidan, Ashley, Tali, Jack - it doesn't work. why? because they are the ones who initiate anything, they are the ones who put it all out in a open. and Shepard does accepting or rejecting. which changes the dynamic with Shepards that they didn't offer anything to, shepards they friend-zoned, or just told to leave them alone (in case of Jack). in order for those romances to actually feel even semi believable, they cannot be copy pasted. they have to be written differently. its pretty work intensive. so you say - write same sex romances only? but I thought we were talking about more options here, more choices?

But the opposite-sex romances are already done. They wouldn't need to write wholly new ones; refitting them for a new game wouldn't necessarily be that hard.

[Quething]

bleetman wrote...

Eh, the s/s romances in Bioware games I've played (which isn't all of the romances, but a fair amount) haven't been especially 'copy 'n' paste' between the two genders. Liara's was, ish, but it never really come across as being designed with one gender in mind and then quickly slapped onto the other.

IDK, depends on the romance. You play Morrigan's or Bastilla's as a femPC via mod, and you basically can't tell the difference. You play Carth's or Alistair's with a dudePC, and it's weird; you're constantly being called beautiful and referred to as a woman (Kaidan's is better, but he'll still call you beautiful and compare you to his ex-girlfriend). Romances that are s/s from the start like the DA2 LIs are often much more in the vein of the Morrigan/Bastila, in that they - as you say - address your PC as a person, rather than as a woman.

Which frankly, I vastly prefer. I would much rather have a partner who thinks of me as a person and understands I want to be addressed that way to a partner who thinks of me as a woman and needs to work that into every damn thing they say to me. It feels far more respectful and genuine and I don't think it's an accident that largely straight male writers tend to write their romances for straight men from that perspective.

Obviously, that's an opinion, and subject to disagreement. I'm just saying: I am perfectly happy to have "gender-neutral" romances with fairly minimal variation between genders of romancing PC. I mean, I think Zev works pretty well, but I'm completely unable to romance Anders with a female Hawke, the patronizing gender-specific way he treats a femPC just turns me completely off. A lot of folks love it and more power to them, but I'm not crying any tears if they give me the same Ash in ME3 that they'd give Sheploo.