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[silentassassin264]

ElitePinecone wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Samara's rejection of a renegade was horrible writing. Samara was the embodiment of what renegades are supposed to be. Cold, ruthless and focused on the mission but still fundamentally heroic and good. The fact that Samara is a the archetypal renegade and threatens to kill a renegade Shep is stupid beyond all reason.

Perhaps the difference is that a renegade would sacrifice innocents to achieve an objective, but for Samara the objective is protecting innocents? 

True a renegade could sacrifice innocents to achieve a goal but as someone else posted, so would Samara aka butchering a village to get Morinth.  But if the status of innocents is what is supposed to seperate her from renegade Shepard, she has really really shallow morals.

[Abispa]

I like the play a renegade myself, but I try to keep him/her TOUGH, but not MEAN. The problem with a lot of the Renegade options in ME is that Shepard seems to go from tough to mean to downright evil at times and I blame the simplistic summaries in the dialog wheel. While Samara may do so pretty renegade options, it is in her religious training to not enjoy doing them. If you do a straight up renegade Shepard there are lots of times s/he does options out of spike or the sheer joy of being a DB.

[ElitePinecone]

Abispa wrote...

I like the play a renegade myself, but I try to keep him/her TOUGH, but not MEAN. The problem with a lot of the Renegade options in ME is that Shepard seems to go from tough to mean to downright evil at times and I blame the simplistic summaries in the dialog wheel. While Samara may do so pretty renegade options, it is in her religious training to not enjoy doing them. If you do a straight up renegade Shepard there are lots of times s/he does options out of spike or the sheer joy of being a DB.

Yeah, that was what I was trying to say above... Shepard can be downright sadistic at times. 

It's a bit of a shoddy implementation of the "morality" system, in my opinion. What was set up as an interesting dichotomy between a "succeed at all costs" and a "don't become a monster in order to win" attitude to Shepard's mission is patchily applied; in practice it just becomes a very simplistic 'light side/dark side' meter. The way I had envisioned the morality options working was something akin to Zaeed's loyalty mission: paragons would save the workers despite the threat to the mission, whereas renegades would deal with Vido at any and all costs. Ditto with the final decision of Bring Down the Sky, or, say, Overlord. 

That is: renegades aren't necessarily monsters (or cruel), but were willing to do anything in pursuit of the mission. Unfortunately so many of ME/ME2's renegade options boil down to "throw this person out a window or light them on fire because it's appropriately violent and badass". 

In relation to the romances: I'd love it if the morality system was used more. It was a good start with Samara but it felt extremely odd that, say, a renegade would romance Tali or Jacob. I can't see any mystical attraction to Shepard overcoming the fact that s/he's a sadistic monster. 

[silentassassin264]

What you said is true of course. Bioware talked a lot about how Paragon and Renegade would not be just good vs. evil since you are supposed to be a hero either way but the problem is that when they give you a straight up evil option (a la killing said Justicar for her leather clad daughter with a death fetish) it counts as renegade. They still have renegade as the cold and ruthless but also lump every straight up evil/criminal choice as renegade. Using just the meters given, there is no way to tell whether your renegade was a following the cold and efficient Renegade or the For the Evulz Renegade. Since I doubt they are going to have [blue] paragon, [red] Renegade, [pulsing red with black tendrils] evil, this is probably not really going to get fixed and in my opinion they should not have anything cutting off Renegades like Samara's "romance" largely because they don't make that distinction.

[bleetman]

Quething wrote...

I have a hard time seeing Kaidan fall for a xenophobe.

"If they don't want to do anything they should get the hell out of our way. It could only improve things if the Alliance was in charge."



On an even-more-unrelated-side-note, his "Fifty thousand years to figure this out and it's down to twenty five mutineers, way to go Team Milky Way" is now possibly my favourite line ever.

Modifié par bleetman, 15 août 2011 - 02:04 .

[CrookedAsylum]

silentassassin264 wrote...

True a renegade could sacrifice innocents to achieve a goal but as someone else posted, so would Samara aka butchering a village to get Morinth.  But if the status of innocents is what is supposed to seperate her from renegade Shepard, she has really really shallow morals.

Except those innocents were turned into proverbial zombies by Morinth's braingina, if I recall correctly. Samara ended up killing them because they didn't give her a choice. That said, Samara is pretty renegade save for a few moral differences, but they're enough for her not to like renShepard.

[Fordtransit]

This is going to go soo wroong... Next time, i read the manual for the game.

And i hope there will be someone in the squad i can talk to without being nijamaced way or another. Looks like Zaeed and Kasumi arew my new best frends.

In ME2, the moust akward and craizy moment for me was, when shep told to doctor Chakwas: dialoge options: "i liked to have a drink with you" And my shep goes and says: "i liked when you have your hair down". Whaaat? Where did that came from?

It seems that the issue isnt ss or whatever, but more like bioware pushing some strnge thins into your game. I hope they would not do that in ME3.

Modifié par Fordtransit, 15 août 2011 - 03:07 .

[StynesReloaded]

stynes wants to bang hot alien chick.

[bleetman]

Fordtransit wrote...

In ME2, the moust akward and craizy moment for me was, when shep told to doctor Chakwas: dialoge options: "i liked to have a drink with you" And my shep goes and says: "i liked when you have your hair down". Whaaat? Where did that came from?

'Letting your hair down' being slang for relaxing/opening up and informally talking about things which are private. Which is what they were just doing whilst sharing a drink. It wasn't a come on.

Modifié par bleetman, 15 août 2011 - 03:18 .

[Fordtransit]

Huhh, this is getting better. Where i come from, it can mean something waay different then that.
This is all complicated. The same things can be understood in different ways and messages can really get mixed up. Whatta mess we will have.

Modifié par Fordtransit, 15 août 2011 - 03:44 .

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

bleetman wrote...

Fordtransit wrote...

In ME2, the moust akward and craizy moment for me was, when shep told to doctor Chakwas: dialoge options: "i liked to have a drink with you" And my shep goes and says: "i liked when you have your hair down". Whaaat? Where did that came from?

'Letting your hair down' being slang for relaxing/opening up and informally talking about things which are private. Which is what they were just doing whilst sharing a drink. It wasn't a come on.

The line also isn't "i liked you when you had your hair down." It's "Nice to see you let your hair down." It isn't a come on. If every Shepard sounded like FemShep whenever she talks to Jacob "I'm more interested innn juust talking for a bit" then it would be a come on. And yes a mess we will have haha.

Modifié par SpEcIaLRyAn, 15 août 2011 - 03:55 .

[Fordtransit]

That is exactly what i am talking about.
I think i am not the only one nonative enlish speaker here. Thous things are not really included in language education, as much as i have seen.
Potential for misunderstanding is huge. Now, with a ss options, its just getting more difficult to control What Messages do you send out when you speak with your team.

I think there will be a Lot of returning to an earlier save games.

[Alexnssilent]

Feels like to me this petition was made to bioware in the same emotions and principles as those in real life, for the sole reason of this particular group of people feeling "left out" and without an option in role-playing the way they themselves act in real life, some would consider it "discrimination". So my concern would be...I enjoyed learning Thane's background, I know that for a female shep there is a romance available with him, obviously this wasn't the case with the male shep, now if anything...I'm going to keep an eye out for the same sex members of my group not getting the wrong message and thinking I'm trying to flirt with them! in other words...that screws up MY experience of the game.

[lazuli]

Alexnssilent, how is that any different from avoiding the heterosexual romances in previous games?

[CrookedAsylum]

Alexnssilent wrote...

...now if anything...I'm going to keep an eye out for the same sex members of my group not getting the wrong message and thinking I'm trying to flirt with them! in other words...that screws up MY experience of the game.

You... seriously went there. Seriously.

Oh dear.

[Xilizhra]

You act like it's hard to make Jacob/Garrus/Thane not pursue you.

[Darth Krytie]

CrookedAsylum wrote...

Alexnssilent wrote...

...now if anything...I'm going to keep an eye out for the same sex members of my group not getting the wrong message and thinking I'm trying to flirt with them! in other words...that screws up MY experience of the game.

You... seriously went there. Seriously.

Oh dear.

Won't someone please think of the Het-ies?

Life so hard when you're straight.

[CrookedAsylum]

Darth Krytie wrote...

Won't someone please think of the Het-ies?

Life so hard when you're straight.

And single gendered. Let's not forget that.

But I'm just being crabby. Everyone goes through struggles, and no one struggle is inherently 'worse' than the other; society stigmas may make one more noticably difficult, but YMMV.

That said... self entitlement. Ew.

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

Well you shouldn't expect characters in the game who are homosexual to go running around saying "I'm gay!" Not that there's anything wrong with that but the vast majority of people who are homosexual don't go around screaming it from the tree tops. Its likely you won't know until talking with said character whether or not they are homosexual. And I thinks its pretty easy though to just say your not interested or you are depending on your preference. Sort of like how Jacob or Garrus only became available as LIs if you expressed interest. They shouldn't get wrong idea as long as you don't skip dialogue and hit something accidentally. Which has happened to me on oocasion.

[CrookedAsylum]

lightsnow13 wrote...

CrookedAsylum wrote...

Darth Krytie wrote...

Won't someone please think of the Het-ies?

Life so hard when you're straight.

And single gendered. Let's not forget that.

But I'm just being crabby. Everyone goes through struggles, and no one struggle is inherently 'worse' than the other; society stigmas may make one more noticably difficult, but YMMV.

That said... self entitlement. Ew.

They may not be worse than other struggles, but there certainly are more of them if you're a minority.

No doubt. I find myself more pained and incredulous when I'm being ridiculed by non-straight people, because some stupidly biased part of my brain thinks there should be inherit understanding. Dear God, if I had a nickle for every time I was given an odd look and an awkward silence for explaining my sexuality/gender, I'd be rich.

Anyway, I don't think gay - or straight - characters flirting with your Shep who doesn't swing that way should ruin your gaming experience. Just like in real life, people flirt. It happens. Sometimes you're just not interested, and you politely say so. It's not the end of the world.

Er... that was a general you.

I think I need sleep. Of delicious, delicious coffee.

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

This ^

Modifié par SpEcIaLRyAn, 15 août 2011 - 07:38 .

[Dhiro]

It's sad how everytime I enter this thread I have to turn on my "deal with it" mode. :|

[AngelicMachinery]

Any new info revealed in the past week and a half?

[Siansonea]

Alexnssilent wrote...

Feels like to me this petition was made to bioware in the same emotions and principles as those in real life, for the sole reason of this particular group of people feeling "left out" and without an option in role-playing the way they themselves act in real life, some would consider it "discrimination". So my concern would be...I enjoyed learning Thane's background, I know that for a female shep there is a romance available with him, obviously this wasn't the case with the male shep, now if anything...I'm going to keep an eye out for the same sex members of my group not getting the wrong message and thinking I'm trying to flirt with them! in other words...that screws up MY experience of the game.

News flash: A lot of people who want s/s romance options in Mass Effect are themselves heterosexual. There's this thing called role playing, where you get to pretend you're someone else? Yeah, some of us like to do that. And some of us like to do that multiple times with different characters. So, s/s gives those of us who like to play lots of different characters more options. So yeah, it's not limited to "appeasing" a group. It's providing options for any player who wants it. And if you have to tread a little more carefully in your playthrough in order to maintain your character's unassailable heterosexuality, I feel that is a small price to pay. Honestly, you should be paying attention when you're talking to people ANYWAY.