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[Abispa]

Has it ever been established if those tentacle fringes on the Asari are flesh or bone? Just curious.

[ElitePinecone]

Abispa wrote...

Has it ever been established if those tentacle fringes on the Asari are flesh or bone? Just curious.

This is off topic, but I remember an advertisement on Illium talking about 'dry' scalp tentacles. So probably cartilage and skin... 

[Sepewrath]

LiaraShepard wrote...

Of course, Liara is female. People just forget that she's monogendered and not nongendered. She's not labeled as female because there aren't males, so the word woman isn't necessary. But of course she has a vagina. Otherwise she wouldn't be able to bear children. A penis however isn't important because the insemination is a brain-thing.

Well don't be so sure, she is an alien that can become pregnant from touching someone's hand, she could spit the kid out of her mouth like she was King Piccolo or something lol. Being in all sex isn't necessary for reproduction, no guarantee that she has sexual organs, it would be biologically unnecessary for Asari.

[Chun Hei]

Asari MUST be women because a boy with a name like Liara would be like totally gay and would ruin my immersion.

[Sundance31us]

Chun Hei wrote...
Asari MUST be women because a boy with a name like Liara would be like totally gay and would ruin my immersion.

[Quething]

Abispa wrote...

The only way to activate the "ninjamance" was to be unrealitically nice to him after he just lead you into an ambush where you were forced to kill a dozen Templars inside the Chantry. If Hawke reacted realistically, by being sarcastic or angry, the "ninjamance" never comes up. But if you say, "No problem, buddy, I'm sure the Chantry won't mind all the dead Templars, and, might I say, you are a really sweet abomination!" Anders gets it into his head you're hitting on him.

Of course he gets ticked if you turn him down. He spends the ENTIRE GAME going ballistic over ANYTHING ANYONE says that doesn't totally agree with his viewpoint. In short, he's an ass, but I like the fact that my party can include people I can't stand, like Jack in ME2. I just wish that at least ONE of the LIs wasn't certifiably insane.

Isabela's not. She's kind of an oddball but I wouldn't put her picture in a definition box in the DSM-5 the way I would the other three.

(Not that I'm probably one to talk, my main!Shep is paranoid schizophrenic, but at least she has access to space meds.)

I actually kind of like the Garrus and Tali romances from a pure principle perspective. There's an interesting message there about how at-will PIV sex isn't the be-all and end-all of romance, and sexual compatibility isn't necessarily a perfect effortless work of magic. I see a parallel there to a lot of real-life relationships that often get shafted in media representation: partners who have to use protection to work around HIV, partners who have to manage a schedule or use toys due to physical disability, partners who don't share a kink and have to step outside their comfort zone for each other on occasion to satisfy those needs... There's a lot to be said for a game that can say "these two have to work at it to make sex work, and that doesn't impede their relationship, and that's a completely plausible, achievable thing worth respecting and enjoying."

Of course with Tali she just gets some shots and away they go, so, kind of mangled in execution.

[ChaplainTappman]

Wulfram wrote...

There was one issue with Anders in DA2 - the lack of a polite way to say no.

I always took that to be more of a comment on Anders rather than anything else. "I'd rather you not think of me that way," which if I remember correctly is exactly what Hawke says, is not particularly impolite. But Anders has come to think of the world in black and white terms, and thus takes Hawke rebuffing his advances as an insult and a sign that Hawke is against him.

OT, my response to S/S romances in ME3 is identical to my response to S/S romances in real life: a resounding "meh." I've no problem with it, I am (and thus my Shepards are) vociferously pro-equality. But I'm straight. The Shepard I consider canon, the one most tied to me and my personality, is straight. As long as turning down a S/S proposition doesn't require me to kill whoever's hitting on me, I don't really care. I'm glad it'll be in the game, and hopefully it won't be treated any different than a heterosexual romance. That's my only concern, not that I think BW would do that; I think not treating S/S romances as being any different that hetero romances goes a long way (both in-game and in the real world) toward equality. It's important for the introduction to move from "this is my gay friend" to "this is my friend."

Of the confirmed returning squad members, Ash is the only one I don't immediately see as making sense as a S/S LI. "Conservative" is a loaded term, especially in this context, but it fits. I see Ash as more traditional in her ideas on love. Garrus and Tali? Both of their romances are based on, essentially, hero worship, so I see it making plenty of sense. Kaidan, personality-wise, is very neutral so I don't see any conflict there. I, personally, can't see any of the other ME2 LIs fitting as S/S romances, though that's mostly just gut reaction; Jack would fit, except she flat out tells FemShep she's not a lesbian.

[silentassassin264]

I also found the Anders thing funny. If you turn him down you can be polite (if diplomatic or smartass) but the point is he takes offense because he is a clingy...clingy person and gets rivalry points. Rivalry is not some evil thing in Dragon Age 2 and it makes sense. He wanted your affection and you did not reciprocate so he will still work with you...he just obviously did not agree with you well...not showing interest in him.

[ubertubered]

Edit: Post removed. Please keep your person beliefs to yourself. Thanks. 

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 24 août 2011 - 03:45 .

[Abispa]

As an Ashley fan myself, I don't see her as conservative. The only "conservative" thing about her is that she openly believes in a God in an ME universe that appears, on the surface, to be very agnostic. One could argue that she's xenophobic, but I take politics to be more a sense of nationalism amid indifferent to hostile alien governments than some belief that humans are genetically superior.

If she is a s/s option in ME3, I'd see it more of her being "Shepard-sexual" than "bisexual." The problem is that in the first game she has that disease most female LIs suffer from in role-playing games. You know, the one that makes females spontaneously offer their vaginas to the hero with the penis if he talks to her for more than, I don't know, five seconds. I don't see her taking a similar tactic with female Shepard in ME3, so it make ruin fragile players' immersion.

[thisisnotwow4ever]

Edit: Post removed. 

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 24 août 2011 - 03:45 .

[thisisnotwow4ever]

Edit: Post removed. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 24 août 2011 - 03:46 .

[thisisnotwow4ever]

Edit: Post removed. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 24 août 2011 - 03:46 .

[MACharlie1]

silentassassin264 wrote...

I also found the Anders thing funny. If you turn him down you can be polite (if diplomatic or smartass) but the point is he takes offense because he is a clingy...clingy person and gets rivalry points. Rivalry is not some evil thing in Dragon Age 2 and it makes sense. He wanted your affection and you did not reciprocate so he will still work with you...he just obviously did not agree with you well...not showing interest in him.

This is what I find funny about the naysayers. 

They complain that Anders reacting negatively to turning them down was horrible - however - given his personality and any human reaction to being turned down - is realistic with the Rivalry point gain.

Then it gets turned around and they say that Ash/Kaidan/Garrus/Tali/etc. being bisexual is unrealistic. Can't complain about both, folks. 

I don't know. Just something I thought about. 

[Abispa]

MACharlie1 wrote...

They complain that Anders reacting negatively to turning them down was horrible - however - given his personality and any human reaction to being turned down - is realistic with the Rivalry point gain.

Then it gets turned around and they say that Ash/Kaidan/Garrus/Tali/etc. being bisexual is unrealistic. Can't complain about both, folks. 

I don't know. Just something I thought about. 

As the debate with the s/s critics have demonstrated, it is merely the existence of [male] s/s content that sets off the critics. The demands for realism, the demand for a gay toggle, the demands for more LIs so each persuasion can have their own LIs and not share with others, the demands that s/s romances not take up valuable game memory that could be better used elsewhere, the criticisms of quotas being used to cater to enjoyment of minorities, and the criticisms that a quota system should be used to favor the immersion of the majority. It can be argue that not all s/s critics are the same, as we supporters of s/s content are not the same, but I find it amusing how many critics take opposing tracks within the same post. I guess it doesn't matter if they eventually take their train to the same location.

[ChaplainTappman]

Abispa wrote...

As an Ashley fan myself, I don't see her as conservative. The only "conservative" thing about her is that she openly believes in a God in an ME universe that appears, on the surface, to be very agnostic. One could argue that she's xenophobic, but I take politics to be more a sense of nationalism amid indifferent to hostile alien governments than some belief that humans are genetically superior.

If she is a s/s option in ME3, I'd see it more of her being "Shepard-sexual" than "bisexual." The problem is that in the first game she has that disease most female LIs suffer from in role-playing games. You know, the one that makes females spontaneously offer their vaginas to the hero with the penis if he talks to her for more than, I don't know, five seconds. I don't see her taking a similar tactic with female Shepard in ME3, so it make ruin fragile players' immersion.

Oh, I didn't mean it in a perjorative sense. Ashley is my canon LI. Maybe it's because I know so many people from military families, I'm projecting that onto her and so I imagine her to hold more traditional views on romance.

I'm not sure that's so much an issue with female LIs as it is with LIs in general, and most player characters are male. I mean, if the Warden is female in DA:O Alistair WILL be in love with her if you acknowledge his existence. Same thing happened to me with Kaidan on my last FemShep run. Ditto Carth in KOTOR, if I remember correctly.

[gamer_girl]

MACharlie1 wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

I also found the Anders thing funny. If you turn him down you can be polite (if diplomatic or smartass) but the point is he takes offense because he is a clingy...clingy person and gets rivalry points. Rivalry is not some evil thing in Dragon Age 2 and it makes sense. He wanted your affection and you did not reciprocate so he will still work with you...he just obviously did not agree with you well...not showing interest in him.

This is what I find funny about the naysayers. 

They complain that Anders reacting negatively to turning them down was horrible - however - given his personality and any human reaction to being turned down - is realistic with the Rivalry point gain.

Then it gets turned around and they say that Ash/Kaidan/Garrus/Tali/etc. being bisexual is unrealistic. Can't complain about both, folks. 

I don't know. Just something I thought about. 

Haha that is very true. I didn't even give a crap about Anders though honestly. He can hate my Hawke all he wants cause he's in a grave now. XD

[Rawles]

ChaplainTappman wrote...
Jack would fit, except she flat out tells FemShep she's not a lesbian.

People say this a lot and is there some dialogue I'm missing? Jack makes reference to having been sexually/romantically involved with women in the course of her conversations. I assume the "she says she's not queer" is a reference to her "I'm not into the whole girls' club thing" comment, but in context that's referring to FemShep coming down to chat idly with her, not to any kind of romantic or sexual overture. FemShep isn't actually given the option to make such an overture to be turned down or rebuffed.

[gamer_girl]

Rawles wrote...

ChaplainTappman wrote...
Jack would fit, except she flat out tells FemShep she's not a lesbian.

People say this a lot and is there some dialogue I'm missing? Jack makes reference to having been sexually/romantically involved with women in the course of her conversations. I assume the "she says she's not queer" is a reference to her "I'm not into the whole girls' club thing" comment, but in context that's referring to FemShep coming down to chat idly with her, not to any kind of romantic or sexual overture. FemShep isn't actually given the option to make such an overture to be turned down or rebuffed.

I don't really remember either quite frankly. I only remember her talking about having a threesome once, but that's it as far as action with girls. Don't remember her saying she isn't into girls though.

[AmyMac]

ChaplainTappman wrote...
Of the confirmed returning squad members, Ash is the only one I don't immediately see as making sense as a S/S LI. "Conservative" is a loaded term, especially in this context, but it fits. I see Ash as more traditional in her ideas on love. Garrus and Tali? Both of their romances are based on, essentially, hero worship, so I see it making plenty of sense. Kaidan, personality-wise, is very neutral so I don't see any conflict there. I, personally, can't see any of the other ME2 LIs fitting as S/S romances, though that's mostly just gut reaction; Jack would fit, except she flat out tells FemShep she's not a lesbian.

Ash might be on the "conservative" end of the ideology spectrum in 2183-2185, but who's to say how it theoretically changes between now and then. The only points that she really hits on are religion and her beliefs about aliens. Who knows where society would actually be in regards to its acceptance of same-sex couples nearly two-hundred years in the future (I'm an optimist??).
As for the Jack thing, when she says she's "not into the girls club thing" (or whatever the actual line is), I interpreted that more (based on Jack's past/personality) as her not wanting to sit around and chat/gossip the way most twenty-something women like to do.

[ChaplainTappman]

AmyMac wrote...

Ash might be on the "conservative" end of the ideology spectrum in 2183-2185, but who's to say how it theoretically changes between now and then. The only points that she really hits on are religion and her beliefs about aliens. Who knows where society would actually be in regards to its acceptance of same-sex couples nearly two-hundred years in the future (I'm an optimist??).
As for the Jack thing, when she says she's "not into the girls club thing" (or whatever the actual line is), I interpreted that more (based on Jack's past/personality) as her not wanting to sit around and chat/gossip the way most twenty-something women like to do.

Think of Ash as REALLY traditional, then. If she was a S/S LI, I wouldn't be unhappy or anything. I can see the case made for it. I'd probably play a FemShep run romancing her. But at first thought, that's my read on the character.

Re: Jack, I guess it's an interpretation thing. I took it to mean she wasn't romantically interested, especially considering her follow-up line of "I like you, but let's leave it at that" or something like that.

[gamer_girl]

Ya I personally don't see it fitting either. I don't mean to drag politics or anything like that into things, but people with very traditionalist values generally don't approve of such things. That's more progressive territory.

[ChaplainTappman]

double post

Modifié par ChaplainTappman, 24 août 2011 - 02:47 .

[Sundance31us]

Question: Would you consider Susan Ivanova (B5) as conservative as Ashley?

[AmyMac]

gamer_girl wrote...

Ya I personally don't see it fitting either. I don't mean to drag politics or anything like that into things, but people with very traditionalist values generally don't approve of such things. That's more progressive territory.

But there's no indication that Ashley's super traditionalist. If you choose the paragon option in the conversation about religion, she says something along the lines of "space is so beautiful and majestic that it makes me believe in God," NOT "my parents brought me up to be religious and made me read the Bible" or something like that.
There are plenty of Christians in this world who are open and accepting of homosexuals (and probably even a few who are gay themselves).