25715 réponses à ce sujet

[ScotGaymer]

Oh for gods sakes.

I cant believe I need to say this in THIS thread of all places.

But guys. Homosexual DOES NOT EQUAL Bisexual.

And no Bioware Companion character EVER (Or NPC with the exception of Wade and Herren) has EVER been Homosexual or "gay". Some have been bisexual which is a different things.

Anders is "bisexual" in MaleHawke's universe and "heterosexual" in FemaleHawke's universe. Zevran is "bisexual". FemShep is "bisexual". Liara/Samara could be argued to be "bisexual" or perhaps "omnisexual" as well.

There never will be an exclusively homosexual character in Bioware games.

So please quit it with "this character is gay" bull****. NONE OF THEM ARE.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 07 septembre 2011 - 12:27 .

[syllogi]

I believe the writers intended Anders relationship with Karl to be canon, even if he doesn't tell FemHawke about it -- much like how he doesn't tell a Hawke of either gender his real name. It doesn't mean he doesn't have one.

I don't get how having a character talk about past romances with a person of a certain gender makes them "better" for a romance with a player character of that gender. Are Merrill and Fenris less desirable because they don't disclose their past sexual histories to Hawke?

[Xilizhra]

Are Merrill and Fenris less desirable because they don't disclose their past sexual histories to Hawke?

Well... Merrill doesn't have one and Fenris, for the most part, has Danarius.

[syllogi]

I've seen people who played the Dalish Warden origin claim that it was inferred that Merrill had something going on with their characters in the past...I didn't get that impression, but maybe it's because I was playing a female Dalish Warden?

And a person's sexual orientation has nothing to do with any sexual abuse that may have been inflicted on them...it would be horrendously out of line to ever say that. I'm not sure if that's what you were implying, but since it's pretty clear that Fenris did not enjoy any sexual encounters he may have had with Danarius, it's really not relevant at all to a discussion of what he prefers.

[Xilizhra]

My point was that any discussion of Merrill's and Fenris' past sexual history would be either nonexistent or horribly out of place, so they're not really comparable to the Anders/Karl thing.

[.shea.]

FitScotGaymer wrote...
There never will be an exclusively homosexual character in Bioware games.

Juhani in Kotor is gay, she can only be romanced by a female pc (there was a
bug in the launch version of Kotor on xbox that allowed male pc's to
romance her as well, but it was patched later). The 'romance' is pretty
buggy though (and not as fleshed out as the other romances), but it still
exists.

[syllogi]

Xilizhra wrote...

My point was that any discussion of Merrill's and Fenris' past sexual history would be either nonexistent or horribly out of place, so they're not really comparable to the Anders/Karl thing.

But my point was that some people seem to enjoy their romances despite not getting a conversation about their previous lovers (or lack thereof).  Merrill and Fenris manage to have attractive personalities without making a big deal about their "preset" sexual orientations.

So, in relation to Anders and Karl, yeah, it would have been nice to get the extra two lines, as a female Hawke romancing Anders, but I don't think that the lack of those two lines makes the f/m romance "lesser" than a m/m romance with him, much like a lack of information about whom Merrill or Fenris have found attractive in the past does not harm a romance with them.

[Xilizhra]

But my point was that some people seem to enjoy their romances despite not getting a conversation about their previous lovers (or lack thereof). Merrill and Fenris manage to have attractive personalities without making a big deal about their "preset" sexual orientations.

Ah. Well, that's true enough.

[FoxHound109]

TeenZombie wrote...

I believe the writers intended Anders relationship with Karl to be canon, even if he doesn't tell FemHawke about it -- much like how he doesn't tell a Hawke of either gender his real name. It doesn't mean he doesn't have one.

I can't seem to find the interview, to be honest, but it talked about that exactly: it was about his relationship with Karl and it being cannon.

[Twizz089]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Oh for gods sakes.

I cant believe I need to say this in THIS thread of all places.

But guys. Homosexual DOES NOT EQUAL Bisexual.

And no Bioware Companion character EVER (Or NPC with the exception of Wade and Herren) has EVER been Homosexual or "gay". Some have been bisexual which is a different things.

Anders is "bisexual" in MaleHawke's universe and "heterosexual" in FemaleHawke's universe. Zevran is "bisexual". FemShep is "bisexual". Liara/Samara could be argued to be "bisexual" or perhaps "omnisexual" as well.

There never will be an exclusively homosexual character in Bioware games.

So please quit it with "this character is gay" bull****. NONE OF THEM ARE.

Not every homosexual is bisexual, but every bisexual is gay

[Xilizhra]

Not every homosexual is bisexual, but every bisexual is gay

...what?
No, seriously, what?

[ElitePinecone]

FoxHound109 wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

I believe the writers intended Anders relationship with Karl to be canon, even if he doesn't tell FemHawke about it -- much like how he doesn't tell a Hawke of either gender his real name. It doesn't mean he doesn't have one.

I can't seem to find the interview, to be honest, but it talked about that exactly: it was about his relationship with Karl and it being cannon.

We shouldn't really get into this, it has nothing to do with ME3. 

It's all here http://social.biowar...ex/6576620&lf=8

The point being: people shouldn't infer that a character is a particular sexual orientation just because they never talk about it. 

It's the argument people have been making in this thread for months - that up until the point where a character defines their sexuality, it's ambiguous. Relationships with the opposite gender (in the past or potentially with the player) shouldn't be used to pidgeonhole them as any particular orientation (ditto with relationships with the same gender). 

[Twizz089]

Xilizhra wrote...

Not every homosexual is bisexual, but every bisexual is gay

...what?
No, seriously, what?

Excatly what I typed

[FoxHound109]

Xilizhra wrote...

Not every homosexual is bisexual, but every bisexual is gay

...what?
No, seriously, what?

He means that every bisexual person is "homosexual," as in, they can be involved entirely with members of the same sex (my best friend is an example: he's bi, but has only had boyfriends for the past six years). A homosexual person isn't bisexual. There is very little likelyhood that a homosexual will date/have sex with someone of the opposite sex.

ElitePinecone wrote...

FoxHound109 wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

I believe the writers intended Anders relationship with Karl to be canon, even if he doesn't tell FemHawke about it -- much like how he doesn't tell a Hawke of either gender his real name. It doesn't mean he doesn't have one.

I can't seem to find the interview, to be honest, but it talked about that exactly: it was about his relationship with Karl and it being cannon.

We shouldn't really get into this, it has nothing to do with ME3. 

It's all here http://social.biowar...ex/6576620&lf=8

The point being: people shouldn't infer that a character is a particular sexual orientation just because they never talk about it. 

It's the argument people have been making in this thread for months - that up until the point where a character defines their sexuality, it's ambiguous. Relationships with the opposite gender (in the past or potentially with the player) shouldn't be used to pidgeonhole them as any particular orientation (ditto with relationships with the same gender). 

Fair points.

[AngelicMachinery]

Twizz089 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Not every homosexual is bisexual, but every bisexual is gay

...what?
No, seriously, what?

Excatly what I typed

Queer not gay thank you very much.

[ScotGaymer]

Twizz089 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Not every homosexual is bisexual, but every bisexual is gay

...what?
No, seriously, what?

Excatly what I typed

Do you realise how ignorant that is?

Are just serious or are you just trolling?

[Dhiro]

Twizz089 wrote...


Not every homosexual is bisexual, but every bisexual is gay

No, darling, every bisexual is bisexual. If s/he was gay, s/he would be gay (or homosexual, or Dhiro).

[Arik7]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Oh for gods sakes.

I cant believe I need to say this in THIS thread of all places.

But guys. Homosexual DOES NOT EQUAL Bisexual.

And no Bioware Companion character EVER (Or NPC with the exception of Wade and Herren) has EVER been Homosexual or "gay". Some have been bisexual which is a different things.

Anders is "bisexual" in MaleHawke's universe and "heterosexual" in FemaleHawke's universe. Zevran is "bisexual". FemShep is "bisexual". Liara/Samara could be argued to be "bisexual" or perhaps "omnisexual" as well.

There never will be an exclusively homosexual character in Bioware games.

So please quit it with "this character is gay" bull****. NONE OF THEM ARE.

Wade and Herren give off a very strong stereotypical gay vibe, but have they ever been officially confirmed as gay?

Modifié par Arik7, 07 septembre 2011 - 10:56 .

[Dhiro]

Arik7 wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Oh for gods sakes.

I cant believe I need to say this in THIS thread of all places.

But guys. Homosexual DOES NOT EQUAL Bisexual.

And no Bioware Companion character EVER (Or NPC with the exception of Wade and Herren) has EVER been Homosexual or "gay". Some have been bisexual which is a different things.

Anders is "bisexual" in MaleHawke's universe and "heterosexual" in FemaleHawke's universe. Zevran is "bisexual". FemShep is "bisexual". Liara/Samara could be argued to be "bisexual" or perhaps "omnisexual" as well.

There never will be an exclusively homosexual character in Bioware games.

So please quit it with "this character is gay" bull****. NONE OF THEM ARE.

Wade and Herren give off a very strong stereotypical gay vibe, but have they ever been officially confirmed as gay?

Yes, by David Gaider.

[ladyvader]

Chouan wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...
There never will be an exclusively homosexual character in Bioware games.

Juhani in Kotor is gay, she can only be romanced by a female pc (there was a
bug in the launch version of Kotor on xbox that allowed male pc's to
romance her as well, but it was patched later). The 'romance' is pretty
buggy though (and not as fleshed out as the other romances), but it still
exists.

I wouldn't call those romances in KotOR.  Not compared to what BioWare is doing with romances since that game.  That was let go to the back and kiss/black screen and that is it.  It was also very easy to miss, unlike now.

[Ryzaki]

A bisexual is a homosexual (The adjective version anyway which doesn't have the ONLY description). You kind of have to be homosexual and heterosexual to count as bisexual. 

One's just not *only* homosexual or heterosexual in that case. But rather both. 

At least I think that's what was meant. 

You know like how all rectangles are squares but not all squares are rectangles. (Or is it the other way around? I forget). 

I doubt it was meant to be offensive. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 07 septembre 2011 - 11:59 .

[Quething]

Offensive? I didn't think so, but I'm not bi.

Inaccurate? Extremely so.

And KotOR romances may not have sex scenes, but that doesn't make them any less romances. (Hell, BioWare is cycling right back to that; compare ME1's sex scenes to DA:O's, to ME2's, to DA2's.)

[Abispa]

Man, do I hate labels.

My brother is bisexual, but has recently told me that he may just be homosexual since his early relationships with women were to hide his sexuality and later his relationships with women were the result of his enjoying the party lifestyle and picking up women is so much easier (and safer -- being out of the closet in America is still potentially deadly) for him.

Now that he's found "true love" he's with a man.

In the years that he's been out of the closet and I've discussed with him and his friends the proper use of the word "gay" and needless to say I'm still confused. I'd say a majority of homosexuals I've met feel it is exclusive to homosexuals, some say bi people can have a "gay" relationship, and others have said that anyone can be gay if they enjoy having relations with the same gender even if they still enjoy relations with the opposite gender. And still others say that "gay" just means you believe in living by no preference even if you've only ever fallen in love with the opposite gender.

As for Juhani, as of about five hours ago when I played the game on my XBox 360 from an ancient save that still locked up twice, she still confesses her love for my male Jedi.

[Abispa]

Quething wrote...

Offensive? I didn't think so, but I'm not bi.

Inaccurate? Extremely so.

And KotOR romances may not have sex scenes, but that doesn't make them any less romances. (Hell, BioWare is cycling right back to that; compare ME1's sex scenes to DA:O's, to ME2's, to DA2's.)

I do not mind not having sex scenes and instead focusing on the foreplay and aftermath like in DA2. The only problem I have with recent Bioware scenes in DA:O, DA2 and ME2 is that they insist on having the characters be clothed in scenes that are almost definitely meant to be nude. I'd prefer strategic camera angles if they don't want nudity or just cut them out all together and fade to black.

The worst offender is Morrigan since she actually puts on a more conservative top when she's the witch going wild.

Having the men wear pajama pants while lying in bed with Merrill in her one piece bathing suit seemed silly as well, making DA:O seem downright pornographic. I'm not sure how difficult it would have been to render them under a bed sheet (I believe that's Quething's area), but I figure it must be since it was the same problem they had in ME2 with the in bed cuddle scenes after the credits.

And I imagine that Merrill may have been a cause of concern since she and all the female elves looks like human preteen girls, thus the one piece instead of the traditional bikinis.

[MACharlie1]

Ryzaki wrote...

A bisexual is a homosexual (The adjective version anyway which doesn't have the ONLY description). You kind of have to be homosexual and heterosexual to count as bisexual. 

One's just not *only* homosexual or heterosexual in that case. But rather both. 

At least I think that's what was meant. 

You know like how all rectangles are squares but not all squares are rectangles. (Or is it the other way around? I forget). 

I doubt it was meant to be offensive. 

Then we're talking about blacks and whites and grey being only one shade of grey.

How much into the same sex does someone need to be attracted to in order to be considered a homosexual? Can someone who sits on the heterosexual side of the sexuality spectrum, though not at it's extreme, be considered gay and/or bi? I don't believe so - at least not in this society where the majority won't admit that they have even the slightest attraction to the same sex.