25715 réponses à ce sujet

[stysiaq]

Siansonea II wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

Friendship paths certainly should be possible.

oops wrong thread sorry

Actually, a lot of people, myself included, are very much in favor of well-developed friendship paths. They don't need to even differ from the romance paths that much, after all, other than a few flirtatious lines and physical intimacy, a deep friendship has a lot of the same elements as a well-written romance.

^^^ 
this. But its another case of "add more lines, if your not romancing the character" AKA "Less callibrations, please."

[78stonewobble]

Warheadz wrote...

Dear fellow forumites, and moderators. Please forgive me for the lack of respect that my following post may have.

Okay... Why does the topic of homosexuality always instantly draw all idiots, fanatics and lunatics from both sides of the argument? This. Isn't. Such. A. Big. F*cking. Issue. The romances are optional, it's nothing away from you. If you are worried that Bioware won't cater at all to the heterosexual male, then please, think again. If you are worried that homosexuality will ruin the game, then I don't think Bioware's RPG's are for you.... And I also expect that most of us here are aware that Bioware can write good characters. Sexuality won't ruin them, or if it will, the writing would have been ****ty to begin with.

And dont'cha start shoving your god or ethics at me. You can live by them if you wish, but you don't have to take things away from others because they might not follow the same rules as you.

And if you are worried that you are ninjamanced and raped by a same-sex character, then look on the bright side: You get to **** about it on these forums if it happens.

Seriously people! Cmon. Have some class.

****.

Agreed... I can't quite see how another persons sexuality is any of my business (unless I'm pursuing a relationship with that person).

I might not agree with a person on some subject but that doesn't make the other person any less worth. We are just different thats all.

However I do have some oppinions on implementing certain things (sexuality here) in a game I like. Not that they're implemented but more the style and way of the implementation. Thats just from my POV though and this thread and forums seems like the correct place to voice them.

Kinda like I've got a problem with games oversexing females (armor in battle please) or the implementation of heat clips vs. the old overheat meter.

It's details but I still like the game and will buy the next one.

[Siansonea]

PMC65 wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
Miranda, on the other hand, is a mystery wrapped in an enigma, I don't trust her ONE BIT. I don't think she's been honest with Shepard about anything from the get-go, except for the situation with Oriana. Miranda could be concealing a lot about herself, in fact I guarantee you that she most definitely is. Could one of those things be an openness to same-sex relationships? Possibly, very possibly. But more than likely that's not going to be the biggest bombshell Miranda drops in Shepard's lap in ME3, mark my words.

I agree on this but I also think there wasn't time to really flesh out the characters of ME2 simply because there were so many on the team this time (Garrus = "Calibrations" anyone?)

Maybe that is why BW won't comment on Miranda ... It would reveal part of the "bombshell"? I do think she keeps her cards very close to her chest but I also feel that way about Liara. It doesn't mean that they are evil (to me), it makes them smart. I just hope that BW puts as much investment (writing, character dev, etc) as we the players do.

Oh, I don't necessarily think that Miranda is "evil" either. I adore Miranda because she's such a self-possessed and manipulative character. She might have a heart of gold—or she might not. And I like that. 

Modifié par Siansonea II, 15 juin 2011 - 04:12 .

[shepskisaac]

stysiaq wrote...

I have nothing against SS romance, but as I recall it, some time in the past, some dev was explaining, why there were no ss romances in ME 1 & 2, whereas in DA:O there were bisexual characters. The answer was, that ME universe differs from DA one, the protagonist is more established in some kind of 'canon' - meaning, that Shepard was intended to be straight. That was enough an explanation for me.

Explanation which made no sense. FemShep and ManShep are suppoused to be the same character, just in different skin to allow player to identify with the avatar better. Having one skin possible to be bisexual/lesbian (FemShep) and another one not (ManShep) makes zero sense story wise and character wise.

stysiaq wrote...
I don't want to offend anybody, but there were no ss romances in ME 1 and 2. Wouldn't it feel forced, if suddenly Shepard turned out gay in trilogys conclusion?

FemShep could already be gay with Liara, Kelly and hit on Samara and Morinth as well + have sex with Consort.

stysiaq wrote...
But the fact that in previous games you could romance just one sex (excluding blue hemaphrodite), makes it possible to create ridiculous Shepards, who romance ne character in ME1, another (of the same sex) in ME2 just to turn out to be gay in ME3.

You forgot about Kelly. She was 100% human. The only thing that was done wrong was allowing lesbian relationship while no gay ones. Double standards.

stysiaq wrote...
I was thinking, that maybe a good way to let Shep be gay, is that ss romances would be availble if and only if you didn't romance anyone in previous games. That eliminates my 'main plea' but leaves us with the sad fact, that this would still be just a substitute of a true ss relationship. I think, that ss romance, that lasts for just one game is still just a gimmick, and it's not as involving as we would like.

Urhm, but there's also bisexual orientation. Why can't ManShep be bisexual? FemShep already can. The fact she romances Liara in ME1 doesn't lock male options for her in ME2. Neither the fact she romances Kaidan in ME1 locks the option to romance Kelly in ME2.

stysiaq wrote...
In fact, it would be still ok, if ss relationships were availble in ME2. Now it's just too late to make it truly work. In ME2, Tali and Garrus were made possible LIs - I treat it as a nod to the fans, which felt that great connection to the characters. ME2 was a good time to fix al the shortcomings - it was a good time to make fan favorites LIs. It was also a good time to introduce ss relationships, introduce gay/bi characters - unfortunately, in this matter time was wasted.

I can't get rid of the feeling, that ss romances in ME3 would be against the initial plan and design of ME universe - something that no one really took into consideration during ME1 & ME2 developement, quickly added to please fans. But forced solutions won't do any good - they are at most unnoticeable, at worst disappointing and out of place.

So, 'nodding' to straight fans and giving them Tali and Garrus even though that wasn't planned it good but s/s romances are not? Also, Kaidan and Ashley were planned as bisexual LIs in the beggining, dropped due to time constraints so it was a plan. Not to mention all the already existing lesbian romances. It's better to fix something late than never.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 15 juin 2011 - 04:13 .

[Erani]

stysiaq wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

Friendship paths certainly should be possible.

oops wrong thread sorry

Actually, a lot of people, myself included, are very much in favor of well-developed friendship paths. They don't need to even differ from the romance paths that much, after all, other than a few flirtatious lines and physical intimacy, a deep friendship has a lot of the same elements as a well-written romance.

^^^ 
this. But its another case of "add more lines, if your not romancing the character" AKA "Less callibrations, please."

Yes, I'm in favor of better friendships as well. 

[Syledir]

 posted again:I've read some other posts on other threads. I've got the impression that some people tend to forget one thing. Ashley would still love only YOUR MShep, even if she would be open to s/s romance in ME3. She would have fallen in love with your MShep in ME1, lost and found him again in ME2 and would (maybe) welcome him back with open arms in ME3. Or do you believe she would say something like: "Oh Shepard, I wish you were a woman." Come on. Have some trust in BioWare. Look at what they have done with Dragon Age 2. All of the LIs made sure that you know that they love your Hawke for who he/she is. Not what gender he/she has. And the little hear icons in the dialogue wheel made sure that there was no ninjamancing. So people who felt uncomfortable with s/s romance could avoid it, easily.

Or is it the knowledge enough that someone, somewhere wants to see a romance between FemShep and Ashley that bothers them so much? Clearly, falling in love with FemShep would turn THEIR beautiful Ashley into something vile and disgusting, right?

Again, romances will be optional. No one will be forced into anything. But every player should have the freedom to have the same choices everyone else does, thus turning a good game in a satisfying experience.

[bleetman]

stysiaq wrote...

I don't want to offend anybody, but there were no ss romances in ME 1 and 2. Wouldn't it feel forced, if suddenly Shepard turned out gay in trilogys conclusion?

Not for people who considered their Shepard to be bi/homosexual to begin with. Which, I imagine, are the same lot who're going to be the most pleased by the change in availability. Anyone who saw their Shepard as straight can continue to do that unaffected.

(Unless they botch the romances in ways people here have already covered, with ninjamancing and whatnot. Nobody wants that, and I'll personally be pretty disappointed if it isn't handled adequately. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't try)

Modifié par bleetman, 15 juin 2011 - 04:20 .

[Syledir]

bleetman wrote...

stysiaq wrote...

I don't want to offend anybody, but there were no ss romances in ME 1 and 2. Wouldn't it feel forced, if suddenly Shepard turned out gay in trilogys conclusion?

Not for people who considered their Shepard to be bi/homosexual to begin with. Which, I imagine, are the same lot who're going to be the most pleased by the change in availability. Anyone who saw their Shepard as straight can continue to do that unaffected.

(Unless they botch the romances in ways people here have already covered, with ninjamancing and whatnot. Nobody wants that, and I'll personally be pretty disappointed if it isn't handled adequately. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't try)

I am pretty sure that won't happen. They handled the romances in DA2 extremely well. Ninjamancing was almost impossible. And the heart icons made sure that you know when your flirting or just trying to be nice.

[Siansonea]

@stysiaq and Isaac: I think that character 'integrity' is the player's responsibility mainly. Just like I always have the option to do a Renegade interrupt when playing a saintly Paragon, I have to choose to ignore the interrupt to maintain my character's through-line. Same with same-sex relationships. If it doesn't fit with a specific Shepard's character concept as imagined by the player, that option will clearly be one that won't be pursued, they'll pursue the romance option that's appropriate for that Shepard instead. Or none, if that's the character concept. Or flirt with everyone, if that's the character concept. BioWare's job is to put as many options on the table as they can, and let us pick the ones that best suit our Shepards. BioWare should take Shepard's history into account a lot more than they currently do though, there are many conversations in ME2 that should have referenced the save file that didn't, in my opinion.

[bleetman]

Syledir wrote...

I am pretty sure that won't happen. They handled the romances in DA2 extremely well. Ninjamancing was almost impossible. And the heart icons made sure that you know when your flirting or just trying to be nice.

Yep. Such is my hope.

Also, I came across this post just now that seems worth reading. The rest of the thread, not so much. Bile central, woo hoo.

JohnEpler wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

Good God, is this all you people care about? You just have to shove this "same-sex" crap into the mix every chance you get don't you? Are you notgoing to stop until every single character is bi/gay? This is getting ridiculous.

For many people, this is an incredibly important issue. Greater representation of same-sex romances in media is something they strive towards because, well, they currently don't have this representation. Unlike heterosexual folks, they can't watch a tv show, read a book or play a game and have a greater than 50% chance that they'll see a relationship or character that they can identify with in the same way that the rest of the population can.

So for them, it -is- a major issue, and one that goes beyond the level of 'I want more character customization options' or 'I think that there needs to be more branching in the story'. Those are game-specific considerations, and while they're certainly valid - they don't speak to larger social issues. This is not true of same-sex romance - there's a lot more going on there, and as such, it will remain a fairly significant topic of discussion on these (and other, I imagine) forums.

Which is a fancy way of saying, essentially - no one forced you into this thread. If you have something constructive to say, please do so! However, coming in and saying what amounts to 'another thread about being equally and fairly represented in media? Why do you guys care so much about being able to identify with characters and romances that represent you and your sexual orientation?' It's not a convincing argument, and comes across as rather overly hostile.

Modifié par bleetman, 15 juin 2011 - 04:25 .

[Syledir]

Siansonea II wrote...

@stysiaq and Isaac: I think that character 'integrity' is the player's responsibility mainly. Just like I always have the option to do a Renegade interrupt when playing a saintly Paragon, I have to choose to ignore the interrupt to maintain my character's through-line. Same with same-sex relationships. If it doesn't fit with a specific Shepard's character concept as imagined by the player, that option will clearly be one that won't be pursued, they'll pursue the romance option that's appropriate for that Shepard instead. Or none, if that's the character concept. Or flirt with everyone, if that's the character concept. BioWare's job is to put as many options on the table as they can, and let us pick the ones that best suit our Shepards. BioWare should take Shepard's history into account a lot more than they currently do though, there are many conversations in ME2 that should have referenced the save file that didn't, in my opinion.

I am not sure what you mean with your last sentence. Care to explain?

[Siansonea]

Syledir wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

@stysiaq and Isaac: I think that character 'integrity' is the player's responsibility mainly. Just like I always have the option to do a Renegade interrupt when playing a saintly Paragon, I have to choose to ignore the interrupt to maintain my character's through-line. Same with same-sex relationships. If it doesn't fit with a specific Shepard's character concept as imagined by the player, that option will clearly be one that won't be pursued, they'll pursue the romance option that's appropriate for that Shepard instead. Or none, if that's the character concept. Or flirt with everyone, if that's the character concept. BioWare's job is to put as many options on the table as they can, and let us pick the ones that best suit our Shepards. BioWare should take Shepard's history into account a lot more than they currently do though, there are many conversations in ME2 that should have referenced the save file that didn't, in my opinion.

I am not sure what you mean with your last sentence. Care to explain?

Well, I thought that it was very of sloppy of BioWare to allow Tali to romance a Shepard who was douchey toward her throughout ME1 and outside of the engine room chat in ME2. Shepard can be a complete jerk to her, but as long as he says the right things in the engine room, she swoons. I would much rather she tell Shepard to eff off if he did certain things in the game. I liked how Samara's response to Shepard's romantic overtures were at least tied to Shepard's Paragon/Renegade rating. I would very much like it if some characters' romance storylines were cut off because of decisions Shepard makes outside of the one-on-one conversations. For instance, if Shepard gives Cerberus the Collector Base, that should make Jack tell Shepard to go to hell in ME3, and leave the squad, even. Things like that.

[stysiaq]

IsaacShep wrote...

stysiaq wrote...
In fact, it would be still ok, if ss relationships were availble in ME2. Now it's just too late to make it truly work. In ME2, Tali and Garrus were made possible LIs - I treat it as a nod to the fans, which felt that great connection to the characters. ME2 was a good time to fix al the shortcomings - it was a good time to make fan favorites LIs. It was also a good time to introduce ss relationships, introduce gay/bi characters - unfortunately, in this matter time was wasted.

I can't get rid of the feeling, that ss romances in ME3 would be against the initial plan and design of ME universe - something that no one really took into consideration during ME1 & ME2 developement, quickly added to please fans. But forced solutions won't do any good - they are at most unnoticeable, at worst disappointing and out of place.

So, 'nodding' to straight fans and giving them Tali and Garrus even though that wasn't planned it good but s/s romances are not? Also, Kaidan and Ashley were planned as bisexual LIs in the beggining, dropped due to time constraints so it was a plan. Not to mention all the already existing lesbian romances. It's better to fix something late than never.

nodding to straight fans and giving them Garrus and Tali as LI was right. Also it would be right if they were made gay/bi.
Also it would be right if ss romances were added.

NOT adding ss romances in ME2 was wrong. Trying to fix it now - time will tell. My bet is that the ss romances in ME3 will be disappointing. Time will tell.
I didn't know, that Kaidan/Ashley were supposed to be bi, so I withdraw some of my previous accusations.

If you are content with at most bisexual Shepard - that's ok. I'm not. BioWare simply hasn't got the guts to give the gamers full gay romance. Liara is not truly a s/s option, and you know it. Kelly is just a wierd addition, which I don't consider as a relationship (really, who is? How many players will say, that his/her LI is Kelly?).

Edit: "You forgot Kelly" reminds me of "You forgot Poland" in many ways.

And lesbian or lesbian-looking s/s romances are not enough to convince me that ss romances were truly availble in ME. Bluntly said - two girls are easier on the eyes than two guys. Most of the gamers are guys, and as "the internet is for porn", ME wasn't THAT groundbreaking in these terms. Even DA:O had more courage, even if the pants were still on the arses.

We'll end up with Shepard flirting with all of his crew, who turns out to be Sheposexual in ME3. It won't truly please anyone. And I know that everything is optional, and I won't have to click the flirt option, but it still will be weird when they pop up. Thats just my opinion.

Modifié par stysiaq, 15 juin 2011 - 04:42 .

[jeweledleah]

about Kaidan/Ashley being planned as bi - read the links in my signature please. one of those is Patrik Weeks. doesn't mean that they cannot be expanded to be bi, but I'm getting very tired of deleted SHEPARD ONLY dialogue being used as canon.

as for fully homosexual romances?  it has nothing to do with guts and everything with allocation of resources.  When you are writing a super optional content, you want it to cover as many options as you can possibly manage.  its more cost effective to write bi-sexual characters, as they serve as potential LI's for both PC sexes.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 15 juin 2011 - 04:47 .

[78stonewobble]

@stysiaq: It would have been much easier if there had been all the options from ME1. I'd have absolutely no objections then. Since it's just the changing of characters that irks me (somewhat).

PS: Though I'm a straight guy I do like to keep my internet game/porn usage separate from each other. Again... thats just me...

[Siansonea]

@stysiaq: We're getting off-topic here. It's not important what BioWare's motivations were or are, whether one sees the wisdom of s/s inclusion or not. That's not why we're here. We're talking about the best way to go about it, now that we know it's happening. You should give suggestions for what you think is the best way to implement the content.

[Syledir]

Siansonea II wrote...

Syledir wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

@stysiaq and Isaac: I think that character 'integrity' is the player's responsibility mainly. Just like I always have the option to do a Renegade interrupt when playing a saintly Paragon, I have to choose to ignore the interrupt to maintain my character's through-line. Same with same-sex relationships. If it doesn't fit with a specific Shepard's character concept as imagined by the player, that option will clearly be one that won't be pursued, they'll pursue the romance option that's appropriate for that Shepard instead. Or none, if that's the character concept. Or flirt with everyone, if that's the character concept. BioWare's job is to put as many options on the table as they can, and let us pick the ones that best suit our Shepards. BioWare should take Shepard's history into account a lot more than they currently do though, there are many conversations in ME2 that should have referenced the save file that didn't, in my opinion.

I am not sure what you mean with your last sentence. Care to explain?

Well, I thought that it was very of sloppy of BioWare to allow Tali to romance a Shepard who was douchey toward her throughout ME1 and outside of the engine room chat in ME2. Shepard can be a complete jerk to her, but as long as he says the right things in the engine room, she swoons. I would much rather she tell Shepard to eff off if he did certain things in the game. I liked how Samara's response to Shepard's romantic overtures were at least tied to Shepard's Paragon/Renegade rating. I would very much like it if some characters' romance storylines were cut off because of decisions Shepard makes outside of the one-on-one conversations. For instance, if Shepard gives Cerberus the Collector Base, that should make Jack tell Shepard to go to hell in ME3, and leave the squad, even. Things like that.

Ah, now I understand. What do you think about DA2s rivalmances? LIs that couldn't disagree more with you but still develop romantic feelings for you?

[ilovemesometurian]

I'm not gay at all, but very open minded. I have to say I'm proud of BioWare for giving this game a little something that everyone can enjoy. I believe Shepard is supposed to be you in their entirety, so why not give a little same sex love?

That being said, I think its interesting that they said they would make bi options without "changing the personality of a character". This makes me believe that these certain characters will make most sense to be bi.

For FemSheps: Liara T'Soni (Already Confirmed): She's an asari who already dug Shep in ME1/2 and romance possible, maybe Samara may even show up and let herself find love. But let's move on.

Kasumi Goto: I feel strongly that she'll be in ME3 as a main squaddie. She's an old face with possibly new features, and although she dated Keiji her sexuality is never really touched apon due to lack of interactive dialogue, which is understandable. I think she'll return in ME3 as a romanceable on both sides.

Jack: I think even if she's on the team or not, Jack will be dual romanceable. She's already been with women before, so it's a perfect fit.

And possibly Miranda. I don't have enought theories to go either way... but it's possible. =)

For MenSheps: James Vega: He's a newcomer. Like Kasumi, he has a sexuality that can be touched apon, so this would make lot's of sense for him to be bisexual.

Garrus Vakarian: Despite being straight in the last game, I think Garrus will come to realize that having a close friend he can trust is more attractive than male or female issues at this point in his life. He's vulnerable... so maybe he likes calibrating to John Shep a little more than he should =)

Grunt... nah just kidding. Love you Grunt =)

And the last one is either a new male partner will be added in ME3 or maybe Thane. Jacob I don't see as bi and Kaiden does seem it but if you killed him without knowing this then he's not an option... so Thane or a newbie it is =D

[Jademoon121]

Here we go again.....Alright, let me lay it down for everybody.

• M/M LI is confirmed. This thread wouldn't be around if it wasn't. Previous attempts where locked until the end of E3 because we had to wait for their to be more elaboration by Bioware.
• ManShep is just as cannon as Femshep. She can swing both ways, and so can Manshep.
• No one is asking for every companion to go bi. It's been two games without M/M love, its time that the men get their fair share.
• If your favorite "bro" is going to go another level, don't worry. There's going to be an alternative route for friendship instead of romance. There aren't going to be any ninjamances or Anderses.
• Last by not least, romances. Are. Optional. Don't want to bump uglies? Make friends! Just like in real life. Imagine that.

[shepskisaac]

To add something productive, compiled all the tweets regarding s/s romances form Casey, perhaps could be added to the first post.

twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson/status/69833443067969536
[quote]Happy to confirm #ME3 supports wider options for love interests incl. same-sex for m&f chars, reactive to how you interact w/them in-game.[/quote]

twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson/status/69839593490489344
[quote][quote]@CaseyDHudson
Can they not just spring it up if the PC doesn't show any interest
though? That was one thing that bugged me in DA2 w/ Anders[/quote]
[quote]@CaseyDHudson meaning - depending on previous conversations they reveal to Shepard that they are gay? Otherwise (s)he wouldn't know?[/quote]
Far to go before final dialog is written. These details would be spoilers anyway as with other LI's. Input welcome.[/quote]

twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson/status/69849289664376832
[quote][quote]So Game Informer says no more Mass Effect love interests, but @CaseyDHudson says more variety. Trust the producer![/quote]
Yes, our plans evolve over time, and are guided by your feedback. Interviews are often from earlier stages of development.[/quote]

twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson/status/69864209193775104
[quote][quote]@CaseyDHudson this will break the characters you have created already. By changing the way characters behave you change who they are.[/quote]

[quote]@CaseyDHudson
You also said that there is no new love interests in ME3. So suddenly
Kaiden is back to being gay and other characters? Uh-oh.[/quote]

I'm confident that our writing team will handle LI's in #ME3 with sophistication and preserve character continuity.[/quote]

twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson/status/70154686367404032
[quote]Some game sites saying "previously straight chars now available for both
m&f chars" not necessarily true. Will have some new LI's in #ME3[/quote]

twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson/status/70160485537947648
[quote][quote]@CaseyDHudson We were told there would be no new LIs in ME3, can you please confirm if that is true or not?[/quote]
"no new LI's" was an oversimplification of an answer I gave back in early Apr. And things always evolve in mid-production.[/quote]

twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson/status/70234438897905664
[quote][quote]@CaseyDHudson
Can you at least confirm if some of the previous LI's (Of either gender
choice) will now be open to the same-sex option?[/quote]
As w/ the other LI's, specifying who, why, and how spoils the value of the storyline. We want you to discover for yourself.[/quote]

[Siansonea]

Syledir wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Syledir wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

@stysiaq and Isaac: I think that character 'integrity' is the player's responsibility mainly. Just like I always have the option to do a Renegade interrupt when playing a saintly Paragon, I have to choose to ignore the interrupt to maintain my character's through-line. Same with same-sex relationships. If it doesn't fit with a specific Shepard's character concept as imagined by the player, that option will clearly be one that won't be pursued, they'll pursue the romance option that's appropriate for that Shepard instead. Or none, if that's the character concept. Or flirt with everyone, if that's the character concept. BioWare's job is to put as many options on the table as they can, and let us pick the ones that best suit our Shepards. BioWare should take Shepard's history into account a lot more than they currently do though, there are many conversations in ME2 that should have referenced the save file that didn't, in my opinion.

I am not sure what you mean with your last sentence. Care to explain?

Well, I thought that it was very of sloppy of BioWare to allow Tali to romance a Shepard who was douchey toward her throughout ME1 and outside of the engine room chat in ME2. Shepard can be a complete jerk to her, but as long as he says the right things in the engine room, she swoons. I would much rather she tell Shepard to eff off if he did certain things in the game. I liked how Samara's response to Shepard's romantic overtures were at least tied to Shepard's Paragon/Renegade rating. I would very much like it if some characters' romance storylines were cut off because of decisions Shepard makes outside of the one-on-one conversations. For instance, if Shepard gives Cerberus the Collector Base, that should make Jack tell Shepard to go to hell in ME3, and leave the squad, even. Things like that.

Ah, now I understand. What do you think about DA2s rivalmances? LIs that couldn't disagree more with you but still develop romantic feelings for you?

Hmmm, I haven't really seen enough of them to really be able to comment on them, but I do like that a pro-mage Hawke can't rivalmance Fenris, and a pro-templar Hawke can't rivalmance Anders or Merrill.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 15 juin 2011 - 05:01 .

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...

about Kaidan/Ashley being planned as bi - read the links in my signature please. one of those is Patrik Weeks. doesn't mean that they cannot be expanded to be bi, but I'm getting very tired of deleted SHEPARD ONLY dialogue being used as canon.

Ohh really? The why does Liara sometimes refers to Kaidan as "her" in the love triangle scene? @03:025 www.youtube.com/watch you won't say that one is SHEPARD ONLY lines won't you?

Not to mention you only quote one account that wasn't even posted here. Other accounts by BW devs here on the forums said it was planned but cut due to time.

[Erani]

@Isaac, thanks for that. I hadn't even read some of those.

[Ryzaki]

Syledir wrote...
I never said, BioWare couldn't have handled the Tali romance better. They sure took some liberties to explain Talis feelings. Nevertheless, that is what they did. Did her secret crush seem a little farfetched? Yes, it did. But impossible? No, it didn't. Tali managed to hide her feelings from Shepard. The fact that you didn't notice it, just tells you that she made a good job of it. Liara noticed it, but noone else? Normandy was full of soldiers and fighters with a kill everything that moves attitude. Liara was a scientist, sensitive and tactfull and a woman to boot. If anyone would notice it, why not Liara?

What bothered me more was that Liara was no s/s romance option.

I know what retcon is, but there is no proof for or against Talis secret crush during ME1. One could suspect, but thats it. Fact is the secret crush has been confirmed in ME2. Calling it a retcon doesn't make it one.

Nevertheless, there are other options than playing the secret crush card to establish a new romance. I have no problem with it, if Bioware avoids the I loved you all along trap from now on.

*stares* Play ME1 again talk to Liara and tell me she could honestly see a crush that no one else could. NOt ME2 Liara who practically got a personality transplant. ME1. 

Liara being a scientist means zip about noticing bodylanguage and the like actually it's a strike aganist her because she hasn't been around other living beings on a regular basis. Sensitive and tactful doesn't mean you're gonna notice someone crush while no one else does. Tali stayed around that Engineer dude alot you really don't think *he'd* (since he would *always* be there when Tali was interactin with Shepard) wouldn't noticea difference between the way she treated him and the way she treated Shepard? But somehow Liara (who probably didn't have as much contact) would? It is a retcon. Saying "well...you can't prove it wasn't there!" when...there's nothing to support it at all is weak. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 juin 2011 - 05:15 .

[78stonewobble]

Ahem this might come off weirdly or offensively but it's just a thought experiment.

Someone mentioned something akin to that we couldn't guess of the sociological and/or religious aspects of a 214x something society by thinking of how it is in 2011.

That one is a can of worms... Otherwise people can make this argument.

That in the year 214x after genetical engineering and the development of certaing child upbringing techniques there won't be any gay or bisexual human beings.

Blaaah... Let's just take 2011 and call it 214x... Well as something we can recognize around us today.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 15 juin 2011 - 05:16 .