25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Russalka]

An option like this might imply that heterosexuality and homosexuality are something that deserve to be censored.

Flirting happens, it might be uncomfortable, it might be flattering, but it happens. And there is always an option to just say "No, thank you".

[who would know]

Ticktank wrote...

Apologies if this has already been suggested before, but how difficult would it be to have a "Same Sex Romance - Y/N" option at the start of each game?

It wouldn't be difficult at all. That much is true. But the implications of an "off" button aren't as easy to swallow.

Wouldn't such a feature satisfy both the anti and pro-S/S romance camps?

No.

What I personally cannot accept is if my character gets HIT ON by a squadmate of the same sex, without any prompting or dialogue option whatsoever. Worse if said squadmate has never exhibited any previous behaviours that hinted that they were gay/bi. Seeing this happen to some characters in DA2 was a big put-off.

An option to choose whether such interactions are available/automated would be the ideal solution IMO.

As far as we now know, all romances will only be initiated only by the player. Maybe that's enough to assuage your fears. But if it isn't, and on the off chance that your character is confronted with some unshared feelings, how difficult would it be to take the option to say no?

[ElitePinecone]

Ticktank wrote...

Apologies if this has already been suggested before, but how difficult would it be to have a "Same Sex Romance - Y/N" option at the start of each game? Wouldn't such a feature satisfy both the anti and pro-S/S romance camps?

I do not like S/S romances to be honest (including femshep+Asari), but I don't think it'd be fair to exclude this option entirely, since there are some who favour it. What I personally cannot accept is if my character gets HIT ON by a squadmate of the same sex, without any prompting or dialogue option whatsoever. Worse if said squadmate has never exhibited any previous behaviours that hinted that they were gay/bi. Seeing this happen to some characters in DA2 was a big put-off.

An option to choose whether such interactions are available/automated would be the ideal solution IMO.

It's been suggested quite a few times - I'll try and note why a lot of people have a problem with it, based on what I've read before. Keep in mind that Bioware have never done such a thing in their past games to feature s/s romances, and I highly doubt they'd start now. 

First, it's unnecessary. Declining a romantic advance takes one mouse click. Not choosing to make a romantc advance on a same gendered character takes another. That's probably two seconds out of a 40 hour game. You don't like the option for s/s romances? Don't pick them. 

The only reason you're asking for this - according to the above post - is because you personally feel uncomfortable. It's not an ideal solution for everybody, it's an ideal solution for you. 

Secondly, there's no comparable opton for any other optonal content. I'm not a fan of renegade options, and I don't partcularly like (in some playthroughs) female characters hitting on my male Shepards. But I don't advocate for a 'straight fllter', or a 'renegade filter', because the point of optional content is that you can choose not to do it. In a Bioware game you can reasonably expect a few things. Storytelling? Yes. Violence? Yes. Recently, same-sex content? Probably. Take it or leave it. 

Thirdly, it would be - bluntly - a media sh*tstorm. Fairly or no, an option to 'eliminate the homosexuality' from Mass Effect would bring a ridiculous amount of negative attention on the game. I'm sure you can imagine the headlines. There has never been anything comparable done with regards to toggling sexual content that I can remember, and I don't think many people at all expect Bioware to start now. 

Fourthly: I take issue with your argument that characters have to 'previously exhibit behaviours' to be attracted to the same sex. In Bioware games we see - literally, in most cases - a few hours out of the lives of characters who have lived for decades. Up to the point where a character defines their sexuality, or who they're attracted to - and I can think of Liara, Leliana, Anders and Zevran doing this in Bioware's games to date - we don't know. Presuming a character's sexuality when they haven't confirmed is a recipe for disappointment. It's entirely possible for a character to be attracted to both genders and only pursue one at a time, depending on the context. It's still bisexuality. 

Fifthly: Bioware have said they're improving the way romance works in ME3 so as to avoid 'ninjamancing'. I don't believe you'll have anything to worry about. Even if they didn't, declining one line of dialogue is hardly a Herculean task. 

For my main Shepard I've had to decline or ignore unwanted romantic advances from the following characters: Ashley, Liara, Shiala, Shaira, Giana Parasini, Miranda, Tali, Jack and Kelly Chambers. Was it annoying? Yes. But I'm not demanding a filter for new games that eliminates that content. 

With the greatest respect, a toggle option for new games is not practicable, necessary or even likely. 

I suggest you play the game for what it is, enjoy it and press 'no' once or twice when the options come around. It's hardly a soul-destroying task. 

[ladyofpayne]

No about the gays?

[wolf99000]

Ticktank wrote...

Apologies if this has already been suggested before, but how difficult would it be to have a "Same Sex Romance - Y/N" option at the start of each game? Wouldn't such a feature satisfy both the anti and pro-S/S romance camps?

I do not like S/S romances to be honest (including femshep+Asari), but I don't think it'd be fair to exclude this option entirely, since there are some who favour it. What I personally cannot accept is if my character gets HIT ON by a squadmate of the same sex, without any prompting or dialogue option whatsoever. Worse if said squadmate has never exhibited any previous behaviours that hinted that they were gay/bi. Seeing this happen to some characters in DA2 was a big put-off.

An option to choose whether such interactions are available/automated would be the ideal solution IMO.

you dont need an option to do that fact is you just dont play the romance no one is forcing you I do find it funny that the majority of the no to ss romances are talking about male male romance I would love a poll to see how many are men who are saying this vs woman

as for being hit on again dont play the romance simple I am sure if a ss squadmate shows an interest in your shepard the option will be there to say no and it will end there no more hitting you as for them never exhibiting anything that says there bi in the past well I am a bi girl and to this day I still have friend close friends who have no idea it might shock you we dont feel the need to shout it to everyone from the rooftops

[shepskisaac]

jlb524 wrote...

Wait, some are whining b/c s/s romances will be released in a TOR patch or expansion (not the vanilla game even)?

How pathetic.

And you're surprised becuase? It's the same as if an option to play a famele character was added post-launch and not in vanilla game. 3 weeks ago they've straight-out said "There won't be s/s romances in TOR". Now, after much criticism and being made look even ridiculous with Skyrim announcement, they release a statement that there will be s/s romances post-launch. It couldn't possibly be more obvious this is 100% recent damage-control decision. Don't get me wrong, I'm super happy there will be eventually s/s romances in the game, post-launch or not. But let's not pretend BioWare. Especially the excuse "it takes time" hardly makes sense since they could've simply written gender-neutral dialogues and not restrict the romances to any particular gender in the first place, just make some of the NPCs bisexual frolm the beginning.

But it's done, I'm just happy it will happen. Post-launch is better then none.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 16 septembre 2011 - 12:19 .

[Wittand25]

IsaacShep wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Wait, some are whining b/c s/s romances will be released in a TOR patch or expansion (not the vanilla game even)?

How pathetic.

And you're surprised becuase? It's the same as if an option to play a famele character was added post-launch and not in vanilla game. 3 weeks ago they've straight-out said "There won't be s/s romances in TOR". Now, after much criticism and being made look even ridiculous with Skyrim announcement, they release a statement that there will be s/s romances post-launch. It couldn't possibly be more obvious this is 100% recent damage-control decision. Don't get me wrong, I'm super happy there will be eventually s/s romances in the game, post-launch or not. But let's not pretend BioWare. Especially the excuse "it takes time" hardly makes sense since they could've simply written gender-neutral dialogues and not restrict the romances to any particular gender in the first place, just make some of the NPCs bisexual frolm the beginning.

But it's done, I'm just happy it will happen. Post-launch is better then none.

Actually the did not say that.
During that on interview during Gamescom  the developer let slip that there are no SGRAs (as they are called in the the ToR forum) but he did not elaborate on their status (in development, in planning, not scheduled to be added,...) other than that they are not in. That was clearly a slip of tongue since he then stopped dead and went to the next question, if it was an official announcement you can bet that he would have said more.

I fully believe that the story from PAX east in march is true and that SGRAs have already been in the works for months now, but a release on time was considered more important than adding them and so they got put on the back burner until the game was launch ready and will come pretty soon after launch.

Originally Posted by Darth_Eclipses
Hey Guys,

I scanned some of the most recent pages since PAX and I didn't catch this so I'm going to post it. If someone has already posted it, then don't worry about it.

Basically at the Meet & Greet Saturday night I was in a group huddled around Daniel Erickson when this exact question came up.

The jist of it is that Same Gender romance will *not* be in the game at launch. Not even in the one-sided Mass Effect (female on female only) scenario.

He openly admitted that the first community manager did not approach the issue in the correct way, and that he did create a bit of a fubar at the beginning of all this. However, they realized that there was actual player demand for this and sent the issue to LA for approval.

According to him, never before was any suggestion ever forwarded up the COC at LA so fast - no one wanted to say the wrong thing. Once it reached the upper echelons, BW was told that LA had absolutely no issue with gay romances.

Unfortunately it will not be in-game come launch - simply due to time restraints and time restraints only. I really don't think anyone could accuse BioWare of 'punking out' on an issue like this.

Not only did I support this issue in game - but I wanted it there. It would only make for a more realistic universe imo. If you honestly think in a galaxy full of trillions of beings - no gay lovin' is going on: you're honestly deluded.

This is out of the mouth of a dev, so don't go saying I don't know what I'm talking about. I have sincere hopes that BW includes it very soon afterwards though, in an expansion or patch.

[Quething]

Wittand25 wrote...

Originally Posted by Darth_Eclipses
 
However, they realized that there was actual player demand for this and sent the issue to LA for approval.

I love that this still comes as such a surprise to people.

Oh well. I suppose that's why we make these threads, right?

[ScotGaymer]

Quething wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

Originally Posted by Darth_Eclipses
 
However, they realized that there was actual player demand for this and sent the issue to LA for approval.

I love that this still comes as such a surprise to people.

Oh well. I suppose that's why we make these threads, right?

Yeh personally i think this is bullcrap.

I think that guy is obfuscating about the issue because this IS Bioware we are talking about; people questioned why there wasnt SS content in KOTOR for crying out loud!
And Bioware are well familiar with their fanbases' demand for SS content given that its been included in Dragon Age, Jade Empire, and now Mass Effect.
Also the issue about SS romance for TOR has been goin since the game was announced .

There is NO WAY Bioware didnt know it was an issue, and didnt question about it.

I read somewhere that senior management at LA was quoted as saying that homosexuality didnt exist in Star Wars; though that might have just been someone lying lol.

I reckon LA said no at the start and when it became a major public issue they have since backed down, or at least released a media friendly "we arent homophobes honest!" assurance.

The shame is Bioware seem willing to actually shoulder the responsibility for this; though I suppose it isnt surprising given the amount of money EA/Bioware have sunk into TOR.

[Dhiro]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Quething wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

Originally Posted by Darth_Eclipses
 
However, they realized that there was actual player demand for this and sent the issue to LA for approval.

I love that this still comes as such a surprise to people.

Oh well. I suppose that's why we make these threads, right?

Yeh personally i think this is bullcrap.

I think that guy is obfuscating about the issue because this IS Bioware we are talking about; people questioned why there wasnt SS content in KOTOR for crying out loud!
And Bioware are well familiar with their fanbases' demand for SS content given that its been included in Dragon Age, Jade Empire, and now Mass Effect.
Also the issue about SS romance for TOR has been goin since the game was announced .

There is NO WAY Bioware didnt know it was an issue, and didnt question about it.

I read somewhere that senior management at LA was quoted as saying that homosexuality didnt exist in Star Wars; though that might have just been someone lying lol.

I reckon LA said no at the start and when it became a major public issue they have since backed down, or at least released a media friendly "we arent homophobes honest!" assurance.

The shame is Bioware seem willing to actually shoulder the responsibility for this; though I suppose it isnt surprising given the amount of money EA/Bioware have sunk into TOR.

It was a dev in the TOR forum. But I also never saw it, so it may as well be a lie.

To be honest, all this leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[ChaplainTappman]

Dhiro wrote...

It was a dev in the TOR forum. But I also never saw it, so it may as well be a lie.

To be honest, all this leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

This is, to me, the best assessment of that whole scene: penny-arcade.com/2009/04/29

[shepskisaac]

Wittand25 wrote...

Actually the did not say that.
During that on interview during Gamescom  the developer let slip that there are no SGRAs (as they are called in the the ToR forum) but he did not elaborate on their status (in development, in planning, not scheduled to be added,...) other than that they are not in. That was clearly a slip of tongue since he then stopped dead and went to the next question, if it was an official announcement you can bet that he would have said more.

If they were planning SGRAs form the beginning as a post-launch feature (or at least from some time, EARLIER than August), then he would've said "there's no SGRAs in vanilla TOR but there will be post-launch". And even if he didn't, they wouldn't wait 3 weeks or so to say it. Sorry, but to me it looks like it's a recent decision all things considered.

Wittand25 wrote...

I fully believe that the story from PAX east in march is true and that SGRAs have already been in the works for months now, but a release on time was considered more important than adding them and so they got put on the back burner until the game was launch ready and will come pretty soon after launch.

Originally Posted by Darth_Eclipses

I kow that quote, and even then I ddin't believe in 'time constraints' explanation.

Also, for people saying Lucas Arts may had something to do with it, lemme just say they've accepted lesbian Juhani and gay Mandalorians (one of which was a right-hand of the all-time fav Boba Fett). As bad director Lucas may be, I don't believe he's homophobis either. He's in Hollywood, seriously. Chances he's worked with literally hundreds of gay movie people throughout the years and remained homophobic are close to zero. Not to mention he didn't pull a plug on Junahi or gay Mandalorians.

Still, I'm happy, but at the same time it's not like they did everything 100.00% right regarding SGRAs, beginning all the way with that stupid 'no gays in Star Wars' claim from one of the TOR forum mods. And that's actually yet another proof they didn't work on SGRAs till last year at least. If they did, that mod would know about it. He may have not been super-aware of all things EU (Juhani, gay Mandalorians), but he would've know about a feature in the game he was moderating forums of.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 17 septembre 2011 - 03:55 .

[ElitePinecone]

^ Just on that, it's rather easy to make a fairly vague promise to include SGRAs in some far-off future post-launch content.

Especially when it's in response to a forum outcry about its absence.

It's quite possible that they've been in the works for months, but there's no doubt that this announcement was directly in response to the dev quote that they wouldn't be in the game at launch.

[Wittand25]

IsaacShep wrote...
If they were planning SGRAs form the beginning as a post-launch feature (or at least from some time, EARLIER than August), then he would've said "there's no SGRAs in vanilla TOR but there will be post-launch". And even if he didn't, they wouldn't wait 3 weeks or so to say it. Sorry, but to me it looks like it's a recent decision all things considered.

When did BioWare ever did say anything regarding possible romances for any of their games out of their own accord (other than the twitter announcement of S/S romances in ME3) ? Especially if the announcement has the potential to blow up the forum (as both the Gamescom interview and the official statement by Erikson did). An announcement that SGRAs will have to wait would not have gone well with either group and I can see that they were in no hurry to make it.

I kow that quote, and even then I ddin't believe in 'time constraints' explanation.

Also, for people saying Lucas Arts may had something to do with it, lemme just say they've accepted lesbian Juhani and gay Mandalorians (one of which was a right-hand of the all-time fav Boba Fett). As bad director Lucas may be, I don't believe he's homophobis either. He's in Hollywood, seriously. Chances he's worked with literally hundreds of gay movie people throughout the years and remained homophobic are close to zero. Not to mention he didn't pull a plug on Junahi or gay Mandalorians.

Still, I'm happy, but at the same time it's not like they did everything 100.00% right regarding SGRAs, beginning all the way with that stupid 'no gays in Star Wars' claim from one of the TOR forum mods. And that's actually yet another proof they didn't work on SGRAs till last year at least. If they did, that mod would know about it. He may have not been super-aware of all things EU (Juhani, gay Mandalorians), but he would've know about a feature in the game he was moderating forums of.

I actually do believe them. Because firstly romances are a very minor feature, I know the forums make it look otherwise but for the general audience the feature is not very important and therefore many other aspects of the game come first before you can put resources into them.
Secondly if the demand for SGRAs was overlooked at first it becomes hard to add them later. Gender checks have to be inserted into every dialog/cutscene that the NPC in question is part of. Often new dialog/scenes have to be made to avoid, well just look at the modded romance scenes for Miranda (she apparently tries to break Shepard´s spine with her legs), Thane (Shepard seems liking to lick toads) and Garrus (worst headache ever).
Inserting a new romance arc for an NPC already existing is a lot of work and the necessary programming has the potential to screw up every interaction with the NPC so I can see why they would not spend resources on them until the rest of the game is launch ready.
Also the incident with the moderator happened two years ago (may 2009 to be exact). But with all the market research to see if there is an actual market or if this is just a forum specific issue and the approval process by Lucas Arts, yes SGRAs were properly not worked on until for quite some time and if you factor in that you need 16 of them (at least one gay and one lesbian for all eight classes) and the importance of a smooth launch nowadays time constraints are a realistic explanation why they could not be added for launch.

Modifié par Wittand25, 17 septembre 2011 - 05:22 .

[ElitePinecone]

He could've easily said something like "they won't be in the game at launch but we've been planning for months to put them in soon afterwards."

Why would they deny the SGRAs at first (forums blow up) then hurriedly confirm them for post-launch a few weeks later (forums blow up again)? If they were always planning on doing them and had been working on them for months, why the two announcements? Why not just make one when the question was asked?

I'm finding it extremely difficult to believe they had them planned for post-launch before the furore emerged on the forums. The fact that Corey Butler said they weren't in there at all doesn't indicate he was being secretive or that he didn't want to spoil anything - if anything he was being completely transparent and honest.

I'm glad they're in there and I'm pleased Bioware took the time to announce it on their forums - but I don't believe for a second that they were always planned (and, indeed, worked on), and that it was all a big pleasant surprise they were waiting to reveal. It smacks of saying one thing, panicking at the response and announcing the opposite thing a few weeks later once they'd worked out their reply.

[Wittand25]

ElitePinecone wrote...

He could've easily said something like "they won't be in the game at launch but we've been planning for months to put them in soon afterwards."

Why would they deny the SGRAs at first (forums blow up) then hurriedly confirm them for post-launch a few weeks later (forums blow up again)? If they were always planning on doing them and had been working on them for months, why the two announcements? Why not just make one when the question was asked?

I'm finding it extremely difficult to believe they had them planned for post-launch before the furore emerged on the forums. The fact that Corey Butler said they weren't in there at all doesn't indicate he was being secretive or that he didn't want to spoil anything - if anything he was being completely transparent and honest.

I'm glad they're in there and I'm pleased Bioware took the time to announce it on their forums - but I don't believe for a second that they were always planned (and, indeed, worked on), and that it was all a big pleasant surprise they were waiting to reveal. It smacks of saying one thing, panicking at the response and announcing the opposite thing a few weeks later once they'd worked out their reply.

That assumes that what Mr. Butler said was intentional. But judging by his expression and how he immediately moved on to the next question without saying anything further, I believe that he let slip something that was not supposed to be said.
And BioWare does not announce a feature that they then have to take back, that is why they would not say anything concrete on pretty much any topic in any game because any feature could be cut before release (Kenneth fling in ME2, human commoner origin in DA:O, ...) and first announcing something and then never deliver is a very bad business practise and players do not easily forgive missing features that were supposed to be in at launch. Also I do not think that three weeks would be enough time to get the OK from LA, and make plans to implement them that are progressed enough to say something on the forum.

Just in case that I seem to be too blue eyed and forgiving I want to point out that I will not play or even purchase the game until the SGRAs are in, but I also do not see a point in beeing too negative about the whole issue.

[ladyofpayne]

After comics I like Vega. But I don't see mention of his BI person.

[wolf99000]

ladyofpayne wrote...

After comics I like Vega. But I don't see mention of his BI person.

I did not think vega had been in the comics yet I do think if they do add ss romance and from all I read its happening he is the best bet as he is new to the game

[ElitePinecone]

wolf99000 wrote...

ladyofpayne wrote...

After comics I like Vega. But I don't see mention of his BI person.

I did not think vega had been in the comics yet I do think if they do add ss romance and from all I read its happening he is the best bet as he is new to the game

He's in this new short comic that was released a few days ago:

http://social.biowar...3/index/8340087

I'm not entirely convinced he's an s/s option. Then again, I could be surprised. 

Edit: fixing BBcode

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 18 septembre 2011 - 01:27 .

[Dhiro]

ElitePinecone wrote...

wolf99000 wrote...

ladyofpayne wrote...

After comics I like Vega. But I don't see mention of his BI person.

I did not think vega had been in the comics yet I do think if they do add ss romance and from all I read its happening he is the best bet as he is new to the game

He's in this new short comic that was released a few days ago:

http://social.biowar...3/index/8340087

I'm not entirely convinced he's an s/s option. Then again, I could be surprised. 

Edit: fixing BBcode

If I'm not mistaken, there is also a new female character called Vigilante. I like to think that she and Vega will be the S/S options, together maybe with the VS. I've aways wanted Vega as S/S option though, so maybe that's just wishful thinking

[RomanDark]

Wishful thinking:

Vega had some incident occur which obviously made him go AWOL from the alliance. Perhaps he started developing feelings for a fellow soldier only to watch him die and now he's angry as hell and wants nothing to do with the military. Perhaps during the game he's not very open with his feelings and m!shep has to pry a little. Having gone through all this before and losing the one he loved he will fight his feelings for Shepard but with enough persistence he finally breaks and gives into his feelings. Perhaps behind all that muscle and anger there is really a big softie just wanting love someone.

Even wisherful thinking: Vega is purely s/s romance

[Dhiro]

Or we'll discover that Fehl was the place where his girlfriend/fiancee/lover/wife/little sister died.

[RomanDark]

I like my version better

[ElitePinecone]

Dhiro wrote...

Or we'll discover that Fehl was the place where his girlfriend/fiancee/lover/wife/little sister died.

This does seem... more likely 

Don't forget the new s/s option(s) aren't necessarily squadmates. Bioware devs have suggested this a number of times. 

[Abispa]

I would be SHOCKED if Joker isn't a romance option in ME3, even if he isn't a squad member. And I wouldn't be surprised if he were a "bi" option. I hate to be negative, but I do wonder if it will be a good thing that he's a character that certain players can't kill off before being exposed to Joker's potential "gayness."

Admittedly the number of gay character assassinations that will occur will be small compared the huge number of players that will play ME3, but I am depressed by the dozens or so BSN members who have expressed satisfaction that they won't be exposed to a "gay" Kaidan because he died on Virmire.

As for Vega, even if he were depicted as the most awesome comic character of all time, I still won't have any opinion of him until after my Shepard's meet in him ME3. I was totally ready to be a Miranda fan after seeing the previews and commercials for ME2, but watched her character become a confused mess. And the Thane hype left me cold before ME2's release and the game didn't get me to warm up to him much at all.