25715 réponses à ce sujet

[vvDRUCILLAvv]

Darth Krytie wrote...

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...


Being black is not a choice, you either are or you arent. Sexual orientation is a choice. And when you say that I would be happy if you didn't exist is a little over the top. It's not you as a human being that I don't agree with it's just your orientation. It's just like some people can't understand why I game but they don't hate me for it.

Oh, and do tell me when you made the conscious decision to be heterosexual? I'm curious. What went into your thought process? How did you decide to stop being attracted to your own gender? If you can pick your sexuality, I'm totally curious as to how that works.

I never decided at a certian point in my life to be hetro, I was born attracted to men (Im a woman).

[elearon1]

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

Being black is not a choice, you either are or you arent. Sexual orientation is a choice. And when you say that I would be happy if you didn't exist is a little over the top. It's not you as a human being that I don't agree with it's just your orientation. It's just like some people can't understand why I game but they don't hate me for it.

Actually, aside from bisexuality - which is a choice in most circumstances - sexuallity is not a choice.  You do not choose to be hetero or ****** sexual, you simply are. (though as you age and your views on the matter change, you can become more open to hetero or homosexual experiences even if you identify as one or the other)  There is some question as to whether sexuality is inborn or learned early in your mental development, but by the time you're going to first grade you are already one or the other and while you can choose to deny your tendencies and behave in a way that society is more accepting of, (as in the case of gay men and women getting married) you cannot simply choose to change your sexual orientation. 

[Xilizhra]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Again: leave this thread if you don't want to discuss the implementation of s/s in ME3.

This is not a place to discuss whether homosexuality is a choice. Stop now.

I suspect the desire to have the last word in may override this...

[elearon1]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Again: leave this thread if you don't want to discuss the implementation of s/s in ME3.

This is not a place to discuss whether homosexuality is a choice. Stop now.

I would argue that the discussion is directly relevant ... but, as such discussions can quickly devolve into hate filled flame fests, I agree that this is not the place to continue these arguments and, so, will no longer pursue that area of discussion here.

[vvDRUCILLAvv]

elearon1 wrote...

Carfax wrote...

If thats not pushing it in peoples' faces, then I don't know what is..

I'm going to have to go with the second option here: You don't know what is.  

These flags don't take up your entire screen when you read a post, they don't throw popups on your computer, they don't force you to listen to music you don't like, or watch homosexuals engaging in sexual activities ... they just sit there quietly at the bottom of the post if you want to read them.  A flag on a post is no more "pushing it in your face" than is a bumper sticker on a car ... but, perhaps, that is too much for you as well ... in which case I would say you are behaving in an oversensitive and irrational manner and should perhaps look into correcting that. 

What about the gay pride parades, gay riots and so forth? You don't see hetros with sexual orientation bumper stickers, hetro pride days, flags...........

[Augoeides]

So Pinecone, since I'm uber forgetful, care to remind me, who do you think your MShep character, if you play as one or many, is most compatible with in the ME universe?

[elearon1]

Xilizhra wrote...

I suspect the desire to have the last word in may override this...

Until those people are reported ... and Bioware has displayed a history of shutting down this kind of loaded discussion before it devolves into something nasty ... I can foresee warnings or bannings being handed out if it goes much further. 

[Spatchmo]

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...


"I don't agree with that lifestyle" offends you, and I thought I was being rather modest with my words. I'm surprised that my simple opinion offends you so much. Talk about walking on egg shells!  So let me see, how can I ask this without being offensive to you.......why are the people of differing orentation so defensive??? Did that suit you better? And I do hope you understand as well that I am not trying to be offensive.

Well, you kind of missed the point of my post. You have said you're a woman, and you made it clear in a different post that your feelings are based on religious beliefs. Now, I assume you live in a place where women are allowed to go out wearing any clothes they want and aren't forced to cover their faces and hair. Where women don't solely exist to serve their husbands and to give them children. Your argument of "not approving of that lifestyle" applies to YOU in some cultures. There are religions (including some sects of Christianity) that don't approve of YOUR lifestyle, just because you were born a woman, and religion is the main reason why homosexuality is so controversial. Imagine if those people were in the majority again. I think you'd feel pretty oppressed when they told you that you and your "lifestyle" are immoral and going to send you to burn in hell. It's not your opinion that you're stating, it's a belief you have because religious leaders have taught you to feel that way. You're not thinking for yourself. You don't have an opinion on the subject, you have a belief.

To me, people that demand that their religious beliefs be respected on the "controversial" subject of people choosing partners of the same gender is no different than the hypocracy of you stating your belief, simply because you are a woman, and not long ago, a woman would not be allowed to express her opinion. It's literally the exact same thing, people are just too blind to see it that way. Homosexuals aren't asking for equal rights, the religious people are asking for the right to silence and persecute.

As far as why homosexuals are so defensive, it's because they still have to be, and that's wrong.

Do you see what I am getting at?

[vvDRUCILLAvv]

Xilizhra wrote...

Being black is not a choice, you either are or you arent. Sexual orientation is a choice. And when you say that I would be happy if you didn't exist is a little over the top. It's not you as a human being that I don't agree with it's just your orientation. It's just like some people can't understand why I game but they don't hate me for it.

I actually won't hate you for that, because I'll give you the benefit of the doubt by saying that stupidity isn't a choice either.

Sooo your someone that knows from experience?

[Carfax]

Spatchmo wrote...

 and religion is the main reason why homosexuality is so controversial.

No it's not.  Homosexuality has always been controversial in human history, long before the advent of Christianity and Islam.

Thats all I'll say on that, as PineCone is right.  This thread is going horribly off topic..

[elearon1]

Augoeides wrote...

So Pinecone, since I'm uber forgetful, care to remind me, who do you think your MShep character, if you play as one or many, is most compatible with in the ME universe?

Not directed at me, but as a male the only male character I have found myself attracted to in a potential homosexual run is Thane.  He has a certain class and style to him that really appeals to me as a person and feels like he would make a strong male partner. (I like Joker, but he feels like he'd be a weak partner and that is not something I, myself, find attractive in the idea of a male lover.  By contrast, when speaking of female lovers I am all over the spectrum and smaller details of personality make or break a love interest.)

[Darth Krytie]

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

Darth Krytie wrote...

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...


Being black is not a choice, you either are or you arent. Sexual orientation is a choice. And when you say that I would be happy if you didn't exist is a little over the top. It's not you as a human being that I don't agree with it's just your orientation. It's just like some people can't understand why I game but they don't hate me for it.

Oh, and do tell me when you made the conscious decision to be heterosexual? I'm curious. What went into your thought process? How did you decide to stop being attracted to your own gender? If you can pick your sexuality, I'm totally curious as to how that works.

I never decided at a certian point in my life to be hetro, I was born attracted to men (Im a woman).

And thus you actually proved my point. You were born het and I was born bi. I never made a decision about it either.

And to make this more on topic. Because of this, I think that having inclusion in the games is important. All matter of media influences the population. The more media shows it as normal and acceptable, the more the world will hopefully change with it.

Modifié par Darth Krytie, 24 septembre 2011 - 06:40 .

[Spatchmo]

Carfax wrote...

Spatchmo wrote...

 and religion is the main reason why homosexuality is so controversial.

No it's not.  Homosexuality has always been controversial in human history, long before the advent of Christianity and Islam.

Thats all I'll say on that, as PineCone is right.  This thread is going horribly off topic..

If you think in these modern, "civilized" times that there are people making major arguments against homosexuality for reasons other than religion, you are wrong. The religious are the reason gay marriage isn't legal all over the country yet.

[Augoeides]

elearon1 wrote...

Augoeides wrote...

So Pinecone, since I'm uber forgetful, care to remind me, who do you think your MShep character, if you play as one or many, is most compatible with in the ME universe?

Not directed at me, but as a male the only male character I have found myself attracted to in a potential homosexual run is Thane. He has a certain class and style to him that really appeals to me as a person and feels like he would make a strong male partner. (I like Joker, but he feels like he'd be a weak partner and that is not something I, myself, find attractive in the idea of a male lover. By contrast, when speaking of female lovers I am all over the spectrum and smaller details of personality make or break a love interest.)

I find that very interesting, because while I find Thane aesthetically appealing I find some of what many would consider his class and style to be overhyped self-indulgence, almost self-glamorization of his talents. For example in his character trailer where he says 'Killing is an art... and I am the master' I may have kind of shouted 'Get over yourself!' at the screen. >_>

For me, I find Kaidan's laidback attitude very relaxing in the sense he feels very 'live and let live' and he sees things for what they are, and I find that very appealing. That said, from what I have seen, I find Vega to be very attractive and compatible because while Kaidan is cool and collected, with a kind of depth that is neither intellectual or spiritual just there are great resevoirs of who Kaidan is within him, my Shep also craves what I currently perceive Vega to be, stereotypically strong, masculine and aggressive, someone who is willing to take the risk for what he believes in.

I think my Shepard would just as easily stay back with Kaidan and analyze coolly possibly the pair of them snapping over something should it be great enough (it has happened with Kaidan before) or Shepard sighing in slight but loving annoyance while Vega charges in and he is forced to back him up, or while he patches up some minor wounds and chides him caringly for being careless.

My Canon Shep sort of flip flops between Engineer and Sentinel, hence the back sort of support persona he has adopted.

[Carfax]

Spatchmo wrote...
If you think in these modern, "civilized" times that there are people making major arguments against homosexuality for reasons other than religion, you are wrong. The religious are the reason gay marriage isn't legal all over the country yet.

Well, for modern times, you're probably right.  However, homosexuality has always been controversial throughout history, and has never been accepted or seen as completely normal in the same manner that heterosexuality has....even in cultures such as Ancient Rome and Greece, which existed long before Christianity and Islam.

[vvDRUCILLAvv]

Spatchmo wrote...

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...


"I don't agree with that lifestyle" offends you, and I thought I was being rather modest with my words. I'm surprised that my simple opinion offends you so much. Talk about walking on egg shells!  So let me see, how can I ask this without being offensive to you.......why are the people of differing orentation so defensive??? Did that suit you better? And I do hope you understand as well that I am not trying to be offensive.

Well, you kind of missed the point of my post. You have said you're a woman, and you made it clear in a different post that your feelings are based on religious beliefs. Now, I assume you live in a place where women are allowed to go out wearing any clothes they want and aren't forced to cover their faces and hair. Where women don't solely exist to serve their husbands and to give them children. Your argument of "not approving of that lifestyle" applies to YOU in some cultures. There are religions (including some sects of Christianity) that don't approve of YOUR lifestyle, just because you were born a woman, and religion is the main reason why homosexuality is so controversial. Imagine if those people were in the majority again. I think you'd feel pretty oppressed when they told you that you and your "lifestyle" are immoral and going to send you to burn in hell. It's not your opinion that you're stating, it's a belief you have because religious leaders have taught you to feel that way. You're not thinking for yourself. You don't have an opinion on the subject, you have a belief.

To me, people that demand that their religious beliefs be respected on the "controversial" subject of people choosing partners of the same gender is no different than the hypocracy of you stating your belief, simply because you are a woman, and not long ago, a woman would not be allowed to express her opinion. It's literally the exact same thing, people are just too blind to see it that way. Homosexuals aren't asking for equal rights, the religious people are asking for the right to silence and persecute.

As far as why homosexuals are so defensive, it's because they still have to be, and that's wrong.

Do you see what I am getting at?

So basically your telling me that I can't think for myself because I have religious beliefs. You assume too much. I have many opinions of MY OWN! Oh and homosexuals not demanding equal rights is an absolute joke! I don't know how many times I have seen gay rights demonstrations all over the news.

[ElitePinecone]

Augoeides wrote...

So Pinecone, since I'm uber forgetful, care to remind me, who do you think your MShep character, if you play as one or many, is most compatible with in the ME universe?

I'll be interested to see some of the newer characters. I don't have a particular preference. 

^ Guys and girls: the sociopolitics of homosexuality might be an interesting point of discussion, but it doesn't belong here for very good reasons. Bioware's forums aren't a land of leaping unicorns and free speech: some topics are too filled with inherent controversy to be argued sensibly. It's very easy to write a half page ramble on why your position is right, but that doesn't make it any more right. Leave the topic alone, please. 

[elearon1]

Augoeides wrote...

I find that very interesting, because while I find Thane aesthetically appealing I find some of what many would consider his class and style to be overhyped self-indulgence, almost self-glamorization of his talents. For example in his character trailer where he says 'Killing is an art... and I am the master' I may have kind of shouted 'Get over yourself!' at the screen. >_>

See, I find that kind of self confidence attractive in both men and women ... probably because, until fairly recently in my life, (the last few years) I lacked it myself.  Plus, if I had to pick between Fonzy or Richy, I'd always pick Fonzy ... I like people who are very expressive about their style.

Kaidan always felt too wishy washy to me and, as such, I rarely used him much as a character of either gender.  I agree, though, that he feels like he has more of a quiet depth to him than Thane does, for all his talking about it.  

I haven't even looked at Vega and have no intention of doing so until the game comes out.  Not only because I don't want to learn everything ahead of time, but because I'm not particularly interested in another male party member - I feel all those slots are taken. 

[elearon1]

As for homosexual females - as my personal canon shep is female - I find Tali and Miranda most attractive, for different reasons. Miranda is strong and in control; she has depth, but for the most part is low maintenance and I like that in a woman. Tali is sweet, naive, certain of her abilities but socially awkward ... she feels like the "geek girl" in the team, and as a member of the geek community I am naturally drawn to that.

As for my femShep's - as opposed to my own - tastes; she is drawn to Miranda for most of the same reasons I mention, but in Tali she finds the sheepishness and lack of overt machismo charming. As someone who had spent years in the military, surrounded by other marines, Tali's shy confidence is attractive in a "I could let my guard down around this person" sort of way.

Currently she is seeing Liara because ... well, frankly, she was the only s/s option for a woman in the first game ... but ICly because she has connected to Liara on a level that transcends the surface ... she has merged a deeper part of herself with this person and the connection is almost fundamental. That said, I don't see her staying with Liara, (unless I'm not given Tali or Miranda as a choice in ME3) because of the difference in their lifespans and the implications of that on a long term relationship. They will always, however, maintain a close bond and Liara is - currently - the only character Shepard can admit her fears and concerns to. (Actually, Anderson falls into that category as well ... but she doesn't get to spend the same kind of "off the record" conversation time with Anderson)

[Quething]

Oh look, ******. It's been a while, hasn't it? I suppose we were due.

elearon1 wrote...

I haven't even looked at Vega and have no intention of doing so until the game comes out.  Not only because I don't want to learn everything ahead of time, but because I'm not particularly interested in another male party member - I feel all those slots are taken.

The fact that Vega is yet another (probably) white (definitely) cis (obviously) male soldier does a lot to make me not give a crap right off the bat, I admit. There's a reason I don't play Sheploo. I'm bloody tired of him. I don't doubt BioWare can make me like him, but I sincerely doubt I'll ever be passionate about him.

That said, if he is a romance, I'll run it at some point, because I'm a completionist like that.

Micah, my only real dudeShep (technically I have two, but the other one's a sociopathic fail!Shep who exists solely to do stuff no Shepard I care about would ever actually do, and thus has no actual consistent personality), is holding out for Kaidan. Micah's a very zen dude, he's had to be; as a Colonist/Sole Survivor he's got this recurring problem with everyone around him dying (I had a lot of fun planning out his Suicide Mission), and it was either get Buddhist about it or go insane. As a result, he doesn't form a lot of attachments to anyone. He cares about people in an abstract way, he has a general good-hearted compassion for the universe, but he doesn't let individuals get close. He rejects out of hand anyone who actively pursues him. But Kaidan is just as reserved as he is, has just quietly had all the traits Micah admires all along, so the intensity of their connection sort of snuck up on him before he could do anything about it.

I could go for six pages on why main!Shep's perfect match is Ashley, which is the point at which I just go write fanfic. Kasumi would be a good second choice, though, as they're already BFF and Kasumi provides that spark of irreverence and that outgoing, social delight in people that the overly-sincere and duty-focused Jakarta needs to balance her.

[Red by Full Metal Jacket]

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

What about the gay pride parades, gay riots and so forth? You don't see hetros with sexual orientation bumper stickers, hetro pride days, flags...........

Your argument is as bad as your spelling skills.  Straight people don't have those things because they aren't in danger of beingdisowned by their families or harassed by peers, or being called an abomination by religious groups.  Nice try though.

It also cracks me up when peoples say they don't "agree" with homosexuality like it's some kind of scientific theory.

Modifié par Red by Full Metal Jacket, 24 septembre 2011 - 07:46 .

[elearon1]

Quething wrote...

Oh look, ******. It's been a while, hasn't it? I suppose we were due.

Not entirely sure what you're refering to, here. 

[Espurr]

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

Darth Krytie wrote...

Honestly, because it's like someone saying, "I don't agree with you being black. It'd be better if I didn't have black people shoved in my face during my gaming experience." Okay. Because being gay is as much of a choice as being black or whatever race you might be. Or where you were born. So, maybe we're defensive because people act as if our very existence is somehow capable of ruining someone else's day. Like just the fact I exist, makes you unhappy. As in, you'd be happy if I didn't exist. Imagine how it would feel being treated like your existence was unwanted and there was nothing you could do about it. It wouldn't matter how good looking or smart or capable or whatever you were, just the fact that you existed at all made someone so unhappy, they would rather you were popped out of existence. Now experience that for a whole long time....and see others like you getting killed just for existing and have forms of media treat you as a joke at best and a deviant at worst and now go through your life like that every day and somehow manage to not be "defensive" the next time someone says, "I'd really rather I never have to acknowledge even a fake representation of you in a game because it's so unpleasant to me" and tell me how you feel.

Being black is not a choice, you either are or you arent. Sexual orientation is a choice. And when you say that I would be happy if you didn't exist is a little over the top. It's not you as a human being that I don't agree with it's just your orientation. It's just like some people can't understand why I game but they don't hate me for it.

Yep. I just chose to be gay. I woke up one day and thought "Hey. I'd really like to be part of a minority group that is ostracized by much of society, doesn't recieve equal rights, and is the target of insane amounts of hate."

It has nothing to do with being unable to control who I'm attracted to or anything like that.

Again, this is a forum for for the support of s/s relationships in-game. I'm not really sure what you're doing here.

Also, re: an earlier post you made. I think you've confused the definition of "flaming". Nobody in this thread has flamed you. Disagreeing with you, and pointing out where you are being potentially very offensive to a group of people does not count as flaming. From what I've seen everyone here has been fairly civil to you.


BACK ON TOPIC (before this degenerates further into an ethical/religious debate that nobody is going to win):

This has probably been discussed before, but if all LI's DO end up being available for either gender, who are your Sheps going to romance? My paragon Femshep is shacked up with Liara, so she's set, but my paragade/renagon femshep has been pining after Ashley since game one so she's got her fingers crossed.

I might have to make a new playthrough for Miranda if she becomes an option though...<3

Modifié par ToastPants, 24 septembre 2011 - 08:35 .

[elearon1]

ToastPants wrote...

This has probably been discussed before, but if all LI's DO end up being available for either gender, who are your Sheps going to romance? 

My canon FemShep is in a relationship with Liara, but has been nursing a crush on Tali since the first game, so she'd very probably leave Liara for the little Quarian. (or, rather, I'd probably do one runthrough where she leaves her, and another where she does not) 

I might start with the default femShep for another runthrough were I romance Miranda as well ... I'd just have to do it once. 

[Weltea]

ToastPants wrote...

This has probably been discussed before, but if all LI's DO end up being available for either gender, who are your Sheps going to romance? 

I don't actually have played all my Sheps yet that I plan on having for ME3 but I have them all outlined already
One for every male LI (+plus Joker because I really hope he becomes available),designed to perfectly fit their personalities . And a femShep for Miranda and possible one for Tali.
Other than that I have a manShep that romanced Miranda and a femShep that romanced Kaidan,if it's possible to move on to another LI in ME3 I might have them move on to Joker (again,if he's available)  and Miranda.