25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Spatchmo]

I would make separate games to romance Kaidan and Vega. For female characters I would want Kasumi and Ashley... Jack is likable if you romance her but she is still a terrible Mary Sue.

[Chun Hei]

If it were up to me I would make everyone bi so everyone could have who they wanted but I do not believe for a second that Bioware can do that with so many of the the characters being part timers in ME3.

Since my gay characters are all males I would choose Garrus, Kaidan, Joker and Jacob. I will have to wait to see Vega and the other new men. Thane does nothing for me and unlike Abispa I am NOT hoping for some Krogan snuggle-bunnies.

Modifié par Chun Hei, 25 septembre 2011 - 02:59 .

[Spatchmo]

Ferris95 wrote...

Spatchmo wrote...

I would make separate games to romance Kaidan and Vega. For female characters I would want Kasumi and Ashley... Jack is likable if you romance her but she is still a terrible Mary Sue.

Jack a Mary Sue? Are we talking about the same Jack?

Jack is the most blatant Mary Sue I have ever seen in a Bioware game. A troubled, bad ass tortured woman who secretly has a heart of gold! Oh, and she also has super amazingly powerful biotics that no other human could possibly possess!

[syllogi]

Spatchmo wrote...

Ferris95 wrote...

Spatchmo wrote...

I would make separate games to romance Kaidan and Vega. For female characters I would want Kasumi and Ashley... Jack is likable if you romance her but she is still a terrible Mary Sue.

Jack a Mary Sue? Are we talking about the same Jack?

Jack is the most blatant Mary Sue I have ever seen in a Bioware game. A troubled, bad ass tortured woman who secretly has a heart of gold! Oh, and she also has super amazingly powerful biotics that no other human could possibly possess!

Those are common tv/movie/book tropes, and she fits them, but a Mary Sue specifically refers to a character who is relatively flaw free, beloved by all, quickly becomes the center of attention, and is a self insert for the writer.

If Mass Effect 2 suddenly became all about Jack's search for her real family, and all the characters had crushes on Jack, and Jack's powers increased by over nine thousand, and Shepard got sick and Jack had to take over, and Jack defeated the Human Reaper with her super special Power of Love, then, yeah, I would say she's a Mary Sue.  As it is, no.

[Collider]

I can't think of any Mary Sues in Mass Effect besides Liara (and to an extent).

Modifié par Collider, 25 septembre 2011 - 04:12 .

[Collider]

Jack was more hidden soft side than heart of gold. To be honest I hate how they did that soft side, but as said, she isn't secretly harboring a kind soul by any means.

[Youknow]

Spatchmo wrote...

Ferris95 wrote...

Spatchmo wrote...

I would make separate games to romance Kaidan and Vega. For female characters I would want Kasumi and Ashley... Jack is likable if you romance her but she is still a terrible Mary Sue.

Jack a Mary Sue? Are we talking about the same Jack?

Jack is the most blatant Mary Sue I have ever seen in a Bioware game. A troubled, bad ass tortured woman who secretly has a heart of gold! Oh, and she also has super amazingly powerful biotics that no other human could possibly possess!

I don't think Mary Sues make it a habit to tell you to **** off when you make them angry. 

The only real "Mary Sue" in this game is Sheperd. Specifically high caliber Renegade or Paragon ones. The only other character that could fight for Mary Sue status is Liara. 

[ladyofpayne]

I want Miranda for FShep too.

[Quething]

... you know, Miranda does tend to be a popular choice. I wonder if she might be popular enough to overcome the "introduced in ME2 and subject to Suicide Mission death" issue? (She *is* probably the hardest squadmate to kill, too...)

[jeweledleah]

Quething wrote...

... you know, Miranda does tend to be a popular choice. I wonder if she might be popular enough to overcome the "introduced in ME2 and subject to Suicide Mission death" issue? (She *is* probably the hardest squadmate to kill, too...)

no probably about it, she IS the hardest one to kill.  impossible if loyal and even disloyal - I beleive there are only 3 ways to kill her - as crew escort, holding the line, or taking her to reaper. She will always survive being a fire team leader and seeker swarms.
plus, unlike virmire, suicide mission deaths are completely avoidable, and yet - people seem to think that VS is a good canditate for s/s relationship despite one of them always being dead and their romance arcs being npc initiated.  Miranda's romance is purely Shepard innitiated so there really is no precedence for anything, she is probably alive in more games then Ashley even despite Ashley being more popular VS choice. 

in other words, if Virmire is no deterent for so many people, I don't see why suicide mission is suddenly a huge insurmountable deal.

[Ryzaki]

Jack a mary sue?

Oh come on people. Mary Sue =/= character I don't like.

Closest thing to a Sue in ME is Liara.  (and I admit I don't like her but I don't like Jack either.)

Shepard is a sue but he's the protag. Of course he's a damn sue.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 septembre 2011 - 06:43 .

[ElitePinecone]

Bioware have the numbers, we can only speculate.

If they think it's a good idea that'll be used, I'd hope they do it.

Given some of the commentary I wouldn't be that hopeful, though - it seems counter-intuitive to make Miranda (and only Miranda) s/s, and not any of the other five ME2 LIs. Mac Walters has said that not every ME/ME2 squaddie will be re-romancable.

The difference with the VS being a good candidate is that a combination of the same-gendered-VS being dead in a default ME2 new game and the fact that many people killed that same character in the end of their ME imports means that a tiny proportion of mSheps in ME3 have Kaidan alive, ditto for femShep and Ashley. The numbers Bioware have (and they're ridiculously specific, down to the level of what dialogue people chose, on what day) don't lie. Kaidan is probably the character least likely to be alive in ME3, period - especially since 82% of players are maleSheps.

[Quething]

jeweledleah wrote...

no probably about it, she IS the hardest one to kill.  impossible if loyal and even disloyal - I beleive there are only 3 ways to kill her - as crew escort, holding the line, or taking her to reaper. She will always survive being a fire team leader and seeker swarms.
plus, unlike virmire, suicide mission deaths are completely avoidable, and yet - people seem to think that VS is a good canditate for s/s relationship despite one of them always being dead and their romance arcs being npc initiated. Miranda's romance is purely Shepard innitiated so there really is no precedence for anything, she is probably alive in more games then Ashley even despite Ashley being more popular VS choice. 

in other words, if Virmire is no deterent for so many people, I don't see why suicide mission is suddenly a huge insurmountable deal.

You can kill her on the Line if she's loyal, it just requires a fair amount of work. And math. And letting other squadmates die too. Very hard to do by accident. Pretty sure you can't send her as the escort, either, loyal or otherwise.

The thing about the Virmire choice is that, yes, one of them is always dead, but equally, one of them is always alive. It is guaranteed you will have a VS in your ME3 game. Hence it's easy for them to justify putting a lot of dev hours into ME3 VS content. It's why they've already been announced as permanent squadmates (or at least as much as ME3 has permanent squadmates), and why Ash has already been used in promos. The same can't be said of anyone in ME2 (though Tali and Garrus were, unsurprisingly, popular enough to make the cut and justify the dev hours as well).

Plus, they offer a trilogy-spanning relationship (if not a trilogy-spanning romance), allowing players to enjoy the sense of a romance built across three games. That's something that a fair amount of the fanbase feels is important, and BioWare knows it; it's also something that's already available to het Sheps and Liaramancing femSheps, but not to gay dudeSheps. So it seems likely BioWare will correct that oversight with either Joker or Kaidan, as they're the only two male characters who can provide that.

And let's face it, if Kaidan is s/s, so is Ash. Since part of why it's so easy for them to put dev hours into VS content is that they tend to treat them as a single entity and give them the same role in the story (which, admittedly, to a point, is fair; both are loyal Alliance soldiers with a military human perspective, and on a squad with mostly aliens any differences between them within that perspective are negligible comparatively).

Modifié par Quething, 25 septembre 2011 - 06:43 .

[jeweledleah]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Bioware have the numbers, we can only speculate.

If they think it's a good idea that'll be used, I'd hope they do it.

Given some of the commentary I wouldn't be that hopeful, though - it seems counter-intuitive to make Miranda (and only Miranda) s/s, and not any of the other five ME2 LIs. Mac Walters has said that not every ME/ME2 squaddie will be re-romancable.

The difference with the VS being a good candidate is that a combination of the same-gendered-VS being dead in a default ME2 new game and the fact that many people killed that same character in the end of their ME imports means that a tiny proportion of mSheps in ME3 have Kaidan alive, ditto for femShep and Ashley. The numbers Bioware have (and they're ridiculously specific, down to the level of what dialogue people chose, on what day) don't lie. Kaidan is probably the character least likely to be alive in ME3, period - especially since 82% of players are maleSheps.

this is kind of a point.  unless its ok to include a relationship that's going to be more hidden then Sky's and that's ok with people? I know its ok with most people who don't want to see m/m romance in their games :/ honestly, I feel like Joker makes more sence as m/m LI with trilogy spanning relationship, since he's alive for everyone no matter what and has about the same bond with all Shepards. unfortunately he doesn't have a female counterpart, unless you're willing to see Liara as one.

and since Mac Walters said that some but not all squadmates will be reromansable, why is it counterintuitive to make Miranda LI but not others?  she has a higher chance of being in more games then every other ME2 squadmate. 

@ Quething - I did a lot of math when it comes to suicide mission, since I wanted to set up 15 different outcomes for ME3 imports. I honestly have not found a way to kill loyal Miranda without Shepard dying as well.  her defense score is 2 and even if you take all the heaviest defenders with you to human reaper, and get rid of Mordin, Tali, Jack and Kasumi - you will have either all twoes (meaning everyone survives holdign the line) or if you use disloyal squadmates - they will die before her. 

[ElitePinecone]

Well, Kaidan - if he's even an option - would only be one. There are going to be more new characters.

Perhaps the idea is not so much to 'hide' the romance but to provide it for those relatively few people who either played the original Mass Effect and kept him alive with a male Shepard or bothered to use the Genesis comic to do so. Relatively few is relative, of course - we'd probably be talking about tens or hundreds of thousands of people - but still far, far fewer than those mSheps with Ashley or femSheps with Kaidan.

Plus, from a creative standpoint, Ashley or Kaidan would be pretty much the only trilogy spanning s/s relationship (keeping in mind that Bioware don't acknowledge Liara/femShep), and it's most definitely the one with the most drama. Plenty of stuff for the writers to build upon.

[jeweledleah]

well its not going to be a trilogy spanning romance, its going to be trilogy spanning relationship that may or may not culminate in romance. which is something you could say about Joker as well.  and it has a lot going against it in terms of resource expenditure seeing how few people will actually see it (which is why if it does happen, I believe that it will happen in copy paste fasion) but.. all of this is not an issue for people wanting it, the fact that you could possibly have a wrong VS in your game and in order to get a right one - have to start a new game (and we may or may not get an ME3 version of Genesis - most recent official statements seem to say - no) - is not an issue.

so why is suicide mission an issue? especially when it comes to Miranda who is more popular and near impossible to kill off unless you are specifically trying for it? this is kind of the point I'm trying to get at. why get all "damn suicide mission, I give up there's no way around it, bioware is not going to work on including a new romance for a character who may be dead" while at the same time being very sure that they will include the romance for characters who are most definitely dead in higher percentage of the games. suicide mission, especially when it comes to Miranda is a much smaller obstacle then Virmire, when it comes to deciding which resources to allocate. and if one likes the drama - there's the whole deal with betraying Cerberus... while that organization knows exactly where Oriana is located

Modifié par jeweledleah, 25 septembre 2011 - 07:33 .

[ElitePinecone]

I'm not disagreeing with you; I just don't think it's going to happen. The developers have said not every ME/ME2 squadmate will be available for re-romancing; other circumstantial evidence hints at Ashley and Kaidan being the ones in ME3. I don't object to Miranda being available, but I just don't think she will be.

Don't forget the main emphasis for the s/s will be on new characters who will be introduced in ME3.

[jeweledleah]

there's circumstantial evidence that hints at a lot of things. that tweet can be interpreted in a lot of different ways (which I think was the whole point - to keep fans guessing).

and honestly? the only currently trilogy spanning romances are Garrus and Tali. they are the only ones in all 3 parts. even if Kaidan and Ashley will be available for new romances in ME3 - they can potentially have about the same amount of content as ME2 LI's, since the only thing they got in ME2 was a tiny cameo (smaller then either Shiala's or Giana's sadly enough). its 2 games per LI, with exception of Garrus, Tali and to some degree - Liara, provided you bought the DLC.

so honestly - I don't see why ME2 LI's are that much less likely then ME1 LI's. as far as obstacles go - suicide mission IMO is a much smaller one.

[Wittand25]

Miranda or any of the ME2 LIs does provide other problems than just their survival though.
There is little time between ME2 and ME3 so any relationship that is active in ME2 and get´s continued in ME3 would require dialog that is very different from a relationship that only starts in ME3.
The VS on the other hand believed Shepard dead for two years, and will only be reunited with Shepard in ME3, so even if you had a romance in ME1 the relationship is nearly back to the starting point anyway and most of the dialog can be written to work for both old and new romance.

[jeweledleah]

Wittand25 wrote...

Miranda or any of the ME2 LIs does provide other problems than just their survival though.
There is little time between ME2 and ME3 so any relationship that is active in ME2 and get´s continued in ME3 would require dialog that is very different from a relationship that only starts in ME3.
The VS on the other hand believed Shepard dead for two years, and will only be reunited with Shepard in ME3, so even if you had a romance in ME1 the relationship is nearly back to the starting point anyway and most of the dialog can be written to work for both old and new romance.

which is why I would personaly prefer it that if they do make characters reromancable - that they don't take an easy way out.  for people who have been waiting for 4 years for their faithful relationship to resume, copy paste dialogue is like Horizon all over again, except there is no longer a sequel to hope for, to fix that

but... if copy paste dialogue will not be happening (yeah, right).. then there is really no difference between viability of ME2 LI's vs ME1 LI's. and ME2 LI's are arguable easier to intergrate since they are more likely to survive into ME3.

[Fault Girl]

I don't mind if they make the VS s/s but I just don't want them to make them a single entity, they are the easier option to make s/s but I just want the dialogue for either one to somewhat different and not just an alternative he/she going on. They need to be seperate characters with seperate reasons for falling for Shepard allbeit if male or female.

I'm one of those people who believe you can fall for someone no matter the sex of such person, I can see that being with a character such as Shepard could cause such emotions, that's my feelings on the subject anyway. *shrug* We just to wait and see what bioware does.

[ElitePinecone]

It's all over and done with, as far as we know - but I'm not picky. I'm overjoyed that they're in there to start with. Bioware could've thrown their hands in the air and done the same thing they did for ME/ME2, but at the very least there'll be some options to choose from.

Not everybody will be happy (and we've seen some of them already) but at the end of the day it's their game and not ours.

[JeffZero]

I agree, ElitePinecone. Come what may, just putting them in the game is a huge step in the right direction. If it's fairly minimalist then so be it, at least it's there.