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[wolf99000]

Wittand25 wrote...

Miranda or any of the ME2 LIs does provide other problems than just their survival though.
There is little time between ME2 and ME3 so any relationship that is active in ME2 and get´s continued in ME3 would require dialog that is very different from a relationship that only starts in ME3.
The VS on the other hand believed Shepard dead for two years, and will only be reunited with Shepard in ME3, so even if you had a romance in ME1 the relationship is nearly back to the starting point anyway and most of the dialog can be written to work for both old and new romance.

On the little time between games there is about 6 months maybe a year this was talked about in the new comic which hast he normandy still in cerburus paint but shepard under arrest so it was set sometime just after arrival but there has to be time for them to get back to earth and for the alliance to take apart the ship and find out how it works then rebuild it

As for it only starting in me3 you can get around that in the fact she already had issues her dad and all that then if you throw in me2 you have her talking with her sister for the first time ever and the she quit the only job with the only person she ever trust tim because of her loyaty and trust in shepard that happens if you are male or female so that loyaty can grow into love plus you have the whole trail of the only person she really trust issue that can could make her realise her feelings

[ElitePinecone]

wolf99000 wrote...

loyaty can grow into love plus you have the whole trail of the only person she really trust issue that can could make her realise her feelings

This isn't about Miranda specifically (I think she'd make a great s/s option if people wanted her) but a "discovering feelings" dialogue scene would be - in my opinion - one of the worst ways Bioware could handle s/s encounters in ME3.

Time issues aside, the whole "person discovers they love same-genderd protagonist" seems immensely hackneyed. I know it's perfectly possibly for people to realise their sexual identity later in life, but as plot devices go it's a pretty weak one to use. Especially when it diminishes the agency of the love interest by having them essentially fall over swooning for someone. I'd love it if the first occurences of s/s in the Mass Effect series weren't characterised by an over the top outbreak of internal despair or questioning. DAO and DA2 handled them comparatively well: no angst, no sudden realisations, the romances proceed pretty much like the o/s ones as both characters find an attraction in each other. Nothing more needs to be said. 

If Shepard initiates the dialogue - and it's almost certain they will - it's much easier (and more sensible) for the writers to include an LI response that goes something like "I was always interested, but you never asked". This is firstly true (from an in universe perspective Shepard never asked in ME/ME2) and secondly establishes the character as firmly always open to Shepard's advances, if s/he had chosen to make them. 

[The Uncanny]

I think you could have Miranda as an option without 'discovering feelings' dialogue or a 'Miranda discovers she likes gurls' section quite easily. In fact it would be much better if you didn't. Such material would be twee, it would be messy and you really don't need it. Less would definitely be more. A simple 'By the way I'm interested' eliciting a 'Oh! I'm glad you said so... so am I!' and you're away would be a lot more elegant. I think the same would be true with Ashley, Jack or whoever.

[jlb524]

ElitePinecone wrote...
This isn't about Miranda specifically (I think she'd make a great s/s option if people wanted her) but a "discovering feelings" dialogue scene would be - in my opinion - one of the worst ways Bioware could handle s/s encounters in ME3.

Yeah, it's unnecessary.

[wolf99000]

ElitePinecone wrote...

wolf99000 wrote...

loyaty can grow into love plus you have the whole trail of the only person she really trust issue that can could make her realise her feelings

This isn't about Miranda specifically (I think she'd make a great s/s option if people wanted her) but a "discovering feelings" dialogue scene would be - in my opinion - one of the worst ways Bioware could handle s/s encounters in ME3.

Time issues aside, the whole "person discovers they love same-genderd protagonist" seems immensely hackneyed. I know it's perfectly possibly for people to realise their sexual identity later in life, but as plot devices go it's a pretty weak one to use. Especially when it diminishes the agency of the love interest by having them essentially fall over swooning for someone. I'd love it if the first occurences of s/s in the Mass Effect series weren't characterised by an over the top outbreak of internal despair or questioning. DAO and DA2 handled them comparatively well: no angst, no sudden realisations, the romances proceed pretty much like the o/s ones as both characters find an attraction in each other. Nothing more needs to be said. 

If Shepard initiates the dialogue - and it's almost certain they will - it's much easier (and more sensible) for the writers to include an LI response that goes something like "I was always interested, but you never asked". This is firstly true (from an in universe perspective Shepard never asked in ME/ME2) and secondly establishes the character as firmly always open to Shepard's advances, if s/he had chosen to make them. 

as I said you can fall for someone of the same sex and not have it be your sexual identity as I said I have friends who fell for another girl but would not date another girl it was just that one person that got to them

but if bioware dont handle this right this could be a mess guess it is another reason why its a shame this was not done from day one with mass effect 1

Modifié par wolf99000, 25 septembre 2011 - 09:34 .

[Chun Hei]

Having a DA2 "flirt" option in ME3 would be cool but a part of me would love to have some fun with a "clumsy flirt" option. It would not have to be s/s but it could be similar to the Aveline situation where Hawke keeps hitting on her but she never catch on. I would love to see Shepard the sci-fi sex god stumble around as badly as Aveline did with Donnic.

"...a gun for every purpose. How do you feel Garrus, about calibratitions?"

"Sorry commander, I kind of dozed off there for a bit."

Modifié par Chun Hei, 25 septembre 2011 - 07:59 .

[FoxHound109]

We NEED a flirt option though. I'm replaying ME and I'm going to have to nuke Ashley...AGAIN! I can't even remotely be nice to her. She already started calling my Shepard "Skipper." I told her to "keep it professional" and she STILL insisted on hitting on my manShep. It's really annoying! D:

In other news: I still want Vega for my manShep.

[Athayniel]

Ashley calls you skipper if she's just friendly enough. She calls femShep skipper after all. I don't think it signifies she's on a romance track with you. Just that you haven't been a complete tool with her.

[katerinafm]

^ I agree. We really need a flirt specific option in the dialogue tree this time like they did in DA2. It could be colored like the charm/intimidate options so we know when we're just being nice and when we're flirting (red is taken so it could be pink?). The only time I was sure when I was clicking a flirting option was with Kelly and the 'I'd embrace you' dialogue option XD.

As for ME1 I had to avoid a huge part of dialogue with Liara and Ashley for my two gaySheps. And it's impossible to 'just talk' to Ashley or Liara (I'm sure it's the same with Kaidan, but I wouldn't know since my mShep ran to talk to him every chance he got in case the game glitched itself and he became available for romance hahaha >.>). It made me sad that I had to miss all this bit of information just so the romance wouldn't start.

And it seems that Liara is only possible to talk to after a certain point only if you romance her because I avoided her and after a part of the game she just kept saying 'Whatever happens, it'll all be over soon, Commander' or something like that. I don't remember if the same thing happens if you romance her because I picked her as a romance only on my first two playthroughs.

Modifié par katerinafm, 25 septembre 2011 - 08:57 .

[Chun Hei]

I think part of the reason that so many of the LIs of the past took numerous tries to shut down is that Bioware wanted players to still have a chance at romancing them if the player accidentally chose a "bad" dialogue option or after a while into the game when the character could have a chance to grow on the player.

That CAN be realistic I suppose since IRL I was pretty merciless at turning my BF down before he won me over and I could properly train him.

[Wulfram]

Liara was actually written with a pretty clear moment where she asks "Are you interested?" and Shepard can turn her down. The problem is that the renegade "no" is bugged.

[Chun Hei]

In the past it seemed to me at least that the LI options who were male have been easier to "shoot down." Probably because they did not want to offend female gamers and they did not want to read so many pages whining about s/s being shoved in player's faces (like that worked) and the game-makers could not believe that the average male straight gamer would not jump at the chance to bed their latest polygon babe.

[FoxHound109]

Interesting! And yes, Liara was pretty obvious with her "Are you interested bit?". Shooting her down was easy. I even got to tell her I only saw her as a friend. Williams? Not so much. I've been ninjamanced by her once before. I'm scared she'll ninjamance me again! D:

[Nashiktal]

Some character don't even need a "discovering" feelings plot device. Some characters, like Tali, had the exact same dialogue to femshep as maleshep. The only thing missing was initiative on femsheps part.

[TMA LIVE]

FoxHound109 wrote...

Interesting! And yes, Liara was pretty obvious with her "Are you interested bit?". Shooting her down was easy. I even got to tell her I only saw her as a friend. Williams? Not so much. I've been ninjamanced by her once before. I'm scared she'll ninjamance me again! D:

I've only had one playthrough where the confrontation scene never happened. And that was only because I finished all Liara's romance dialogue before doing the third main mission, by doing N7 missions. Beyond that, every playthrough I've somehow got into romance, despite not picking any romance dialogue.

Kaidan on the other hand, is kind of scary, because it's very easy to kill his romance. Which surprises me.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 25 septembre 2011 - 11:57 .

[ElitePinecone]

Nashiktal wrote...

Some character don't even need a "discovering" feelings plot device. Some characters, like Tali, had the exact same dialogue to femshep as maleshep. The only thing missing was initiative on femsheps part.

Yeah, that's kinda what I meant. 

Although, for squadmates who were already romancable by the other gender in previous games that doesn't work so well... players might want at least some explanation as to why there was no opportunity to romance previously (hence why I think something like 'Shepard never asked' or 'Shepard lacked initiative' would work). 

But for new characters it should be fine to essentially use similar dialogue. 

[Quething]

If you choose the renegade response at the very end of their first conversations, it'll cut off any romance with Ash/Kaidan, but still give you access to all their background and history. Ash you can also pre-empt with the left-side "you're out of line" option when she brings up her concerns about Garrus and Wrex (am I the only one who wonders why she doesn't have a problem with Tali, who's in a far more sensitive area of the ship, and guaranteed to be there, unlike both boys?). Once you know that trick, you're golden. I've never once gotten the triangle confrontation, ever, in probably two dozen playthroughs (... man, I have played that game way too many times).

Shame that there's a trick to it in the first place, of course. Colored Flirt Text For ME3.

(The one powerful thing, though, about the way that nearly any conversation option can start up the romance, is that it allows you to have different kinds of romance. I've said this before, but in ME1, if I romance Ashley, I can be a cynical pro-human jokester who bonds with her over her irreverent sense of humor, or a cliche-spouting idealist who charms her with bizarre earnestness and sincerity, or anything in between. In ME2, if I romance Garrus, he's awkward and Shep is amused. Full stop. Every time.

DA2 was both more and less nuanced; Friend/Rival with three different personality types offered a lot of variety, but conversations were so truncated and linear that a lot of the potential was lost. I'd love to see something in ME3 that incorporated the strengths of both DA2's flirt system and ME1's sprawling, intricate conversations. We won't get it, of course. Sprawling conversations are no longer an interest of BioWare's, per actual Word of God. But I'd love to see it all the same.)

[who would know]

Re: Liara's bugged romance. The only way to turn her down on this screen is "I just want to be friends." Do not pick "you were wrong."


Otherwise...

You will regret your choice.

Modifié par who would know, 26 septembre 2011 - 07:50 .

[ElitePinecone]

^ That's actually a very clear choice, though. It's pretty obvious where the choices would lead.

If something similar were used for all of Bioware's romances it'd be difficult to argue that people were ninja'd into a relationship.

Of course, you'd still have complaints about the s/s LIs daring to open their mouth (or the unmitigated horror of Shepard being able to proposition somebody).

[jlb524]

who would know wrote...
Re: Liara's bugged romance. The only way to turn her down on this screen is "I just want to be friends." Do not pick "you were wrong."

It's a trap!

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

who would know wrote...
Re: Liara's bugged romance. The only way to turn her down on this screen is "I just want to be friends." Do not pick "you were wrong."

It's a trap!

How is it a trap?

[who would know]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Of course, you'd still have complaints about the s/s LIs daring to open their mouth (or the unmitigated horror of Shepard being able to proposition somebody).

I don't understand why there should be any issue with Shepard getting the chance to proposition the same sex. My line of thought is that whereas before Shepard's sexuality was just one big assumption, Shepard's sexuality will now be player-defined. It doesn't mean the choice to play a heterosexual Shepard will be removed.

Since all romance is player-initiated, I do wonder if Shepard, both ****** and hetero, will be able to proposition even those who would turn him/her down. I hope so. I want to see the reactions.

[Volus Warlord]

who would know wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

Of course, you'd still have complaints about the s/s LIs daring to open their mouth (or the unmitigated horror of Shepard being able to proposition somebody).

I don't understand why there should be any issue with Shepard getting the chance to proposition the same sex. My line of thought is that whereas before Shepard's sexuality was just one big assumption, Shepard's sexuality will now be player-defined. It doesn't mean the choice to play a heterosexual Shepard will be removed.

Since all romance is player-initiated, I do wonder if Shepard, both ****** and hetero, will be able to proposition even those who would turn him/her down. I hope so. I want to see the reactions.

If Sheppy did this I'd prolly lose all respect for the series.

Given, that's a gross exagguration, but the point still stands. A hyperbole if you will.

[who would know]

Good for you.

[Abispa]

who would know wrote...

Since all romance is player-initiated, I do wonder if Shepard, both ****** and hetero, will be able to proposition even those who would turn him/her down. I hope so. I want to see the reactions.

In a way I would love the ability for Shepard to flirt with anyone just so s/he could be shot down, even shot down spectacularly. Male Shepard in shouldn't be walking around secure in the "knowledge" that every woman wants him, and female Shepard shouldn't be thinking that all she has to do is say "report to my quarters" to turn every man into a LI. One of the things I liked about DA2 is that Hawke can get shot down twice (female Dalish and the noble virgin, both in chapter 3) and totally ignored by Aveline.