25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Negam]

I do consider the asari female because they must have an organ which is analogous to human uterus. They´re monogendered because they don´t need males as a separate sex to have children, thanks to their unique phisiology. But their being female or not is only relevant when arguing if s/s relationships have been present in the ME universe since the first game was launched.

The asari exist to cater for the male straight gamer who likes girl-on-girl action. Doesn´t matter how the asari came into being. The fact is, the FemShepxLiara romance is a lesbian relationship, a fact which is conveniently ignored by many of these "heterosexuality supporters", who are actually "homosexuality detractors" in disguise.

Modifié par Negam, 13 octobre 2011 - 12:38 .

[katerinafm]

Negam wrote...

The asari exist to cater for the male straight gamer who likes girl-on-girl action. Doesn´t matter how the asari came into being.

I pretty much agree.

[Negam]

Oops.

Modifié par Negam, 13 octobre 2011 - 12:41 .

[Negam]

Double oops. I was trying to edit my post.

Modifié par Negam, 13 octobre 2011 - 12:40 .

[Ravensword]

Negam wrote...

The asari exist to cater for the male straight gamer who likes girl-on-girl action. Doesn´t matter how the asari came into being. The fact is, the FemShepxLiara romance is a lesbian relationship, a fact which is conveniently ignored by many of these "heterosexuality supporters", who are "homosexuality detractors" in disguise.

That's what i'm talking about. It's like I said, only a heterosexual male could've come up w/ the idea to make a distinctly feminine looking mon-gender race of pansexual aliens. It's certainly not BW acknowledging the LGBT community nor is it really acknowledging lesbian and bisexual women either. But that's how it works, no? First the straight people get their share first, then the lesbians and bisexual women, followed gay people and by the Grace of god if by some luck, the transgender people.

[Ravensword]

That's because debates are awesome.

[Negam]

Ravensword wrote...

Negam wrote...

The asari exist to cater for the male straight gamer who likes girl-on-girl action. Doesn´t matter how the asari came into being. The fact is, the FemShepxLiara romance is a lesbian relationship, a fact which is conveniently ignored by many of these "heterosexuality supporters", who are "homosexuality detractors" in disguise.

That's what i'm talking about. It's like I said, only a heterosexual male could've come up w/ the idea to make a distinctly feminine looking mon-gender race of pansexual aliens. It's certainly not BW acknowledging the LGBT community nor is it really acknowledging lesbian and bisexual women either. But that's how it works, no? First the straight people get their share first, then the lesbians and bisexual women, followed gay people and by the Grace of god if by some luck, the transgender people.

Well, I agree that a heterosexual male came up with the asari. But about BW not acknowledging the LGBT community? Remember that Kaidan and Ash were being developed as s/s LIs until that content was cut. I think  that BioWare originally intended to acknowledge the LGBT community. Not with Liara, of course, but with bi Kaidan/Ash. But the FemShepXLiara romance introduced homosexuality in the ME universe anyway. So, intended or not, FemShepxLiara is a legit victory for the LGTB community, not just lesbian fanservice for straight guys.

Modifié par Negam, 13 octobre 2011 - 01:20 .

[Ravensword]

Negam wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Negam wrote...

The asari exist to cater for the male straight gamer who likes girl-on-girl action. Doesn´t matter how the asari came into being. The fact is, the FemShepxLiara romance is a lesbian relationship, a fact which is conveniently ignored by many of these "heterosexuality supporters", who are "homosexuality detractors" in disguise.

That's what i'm talking about. It's like I said, only a heterosexual male could've come up w/ the idea to make a distinctly feminine looking mon-gender race of pansexual aliens. It's certainly not BW acknowledging the LGBT community nor is it really acknowledging lesbian and bisexual women either. But that's how it works, no? First the straight people get their share first, then the lesbians and bisexual women, followed gay people and by the Grace of god if by some luck, the transgender people.

Well, I agree that a heterosexual male came up with the asari. But about BW not acknowledging the LGBT community? Remember that Kaidan and Ash were being developed as s/s LIs until that content was cut. I think  that BioWare originally intended to acknowledge the LGBT community. Not with Liara, of course, but with bi Kaidan/Ash. But the FemShepXLiara romance introduced homosexuality in the ME universe anyway. So, intended or not, FemShepxLiara is a legit victory for the LGTB community, not just lesbian fanservice for straight guys.

Yeah, and BW got cold feet and so lesbians and bisexual women were stuck w/ the heterosexual fanservice that is the Asari. That's an odd way to claim victory.

[Negam]

Ravensword wrote...

Negam wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Negam wrote...

The asari exist to cater for the male straight gamer who likes girl-on-girl action. Doesn´t matter how the asari came into being. The fact is, the FemShepxLiara romance is a lesbian relationship, a fact which is conveniently ignored by many of these "heterosexuality supporters", who are "homosexuality detractors" in disguise.

That's what i'm talking about. It's like I said, only a heterosexual male could've come up w/ the idea to make a distinctly feminine looking mon-gender race of pansexual aliens. It's certainly not BW acknowledging the LGBT community nor is it really acknowledging lesbian and bisexual women either. But that's how it works, no? First the straight people get their share first, then the lesbians and bisexual women, followed gay people and by the Grace of god if by some luck, the transgender people.

Well, I agree that a heterosexual male came up with the asari. But about BW not acknowledging the LGBT community? Remember that Kaidan and Ash were being developed as s/s LIs until that content was cut. I think  that BioWare originally intended to acknowledge the LGBT community. Not with Liara, of course, but with bi Kaidan/Ash. But the FemShepXLiara romance introduced homosexuality in the ME universe anyway. So, intended or not, FemShepxLiara is a legit victory for the LGTB community, not just lesbian fanservice for straight guys.

Yeah, and BW got cold feet and so lesbians and bisexual women were stuck w/ the heterosexual fanservice that is the Asari. That's an odd way to claim victory.

As I said, it`s irrelevant that the asari were born like heterosexual fanservice. The FemShepXLiara romance is a lesbian relationship. The victory is that homosexuality has been present in ME since the first game.

I think you disagree with me because, as you said, in your opinion the asari are not female.

Modifié par Negam, 13 octobre 2011 - 03:58 .

[Ravensword]

Negam wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Negam wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Negam wrote...

The asari exist to cater for the male straight gamer who likes girl-on-girl action. Doesn´t matter how the asari came into being. The fact is, the FemShepxLiara romance is a lesbian relationship, a fact which is conveniently ignored by many of these "heterosexuality supporters", who are "homosexuality detractors" in disguise.

That's what i'm talking about. It's like I said, only a heterosexual male could've come up w/ the idea to make a distinctly feminine looking mon-gender race of pansexual aliens. It's certainly not BW acknowledging the LGBT community nor is it really acknowledging lesbian and bisexual women either. But that's how it works, no? First the straight people get their share first, then the lesbians and bisexual women, followed gay people and by the Grace of god if by some luck, the transgender people.

Well, I agree that a heterosexual male came up with the asari. But about BW not acknowledging the LGBT community? Remember that Kaidan and Ash were being developed as s/s LIs until that content was cut. I think  that BioWare originally intended to acknowledge the LGBT community. Not with Liara, of course, but with bi Kaidan/Ash. But the FemShepXLiara romance introduced homosexuality in the ME universe anyway. So, intended or not, FemShepxLiara is a legit victory for the LGTB community, not just lesbian fanservice for straight guys.

Yeah, and BW got cold feet and so lesbians and bisexual women were stuck w/ the heterosexual fanservice that is the Asari. That's an odd way to claim victory.

As I said, it`s irrelevent that the asari were born like heterosexual fanservice. The FemShepXLiara romance is a lesbian relationship. The victory is that homosexuality has been present in ME since the first game.

I think you disagree with me because, as you said, in your opinion the asari are not female.

Oh, I think it has some relevance here. The first instance of any sort of any s/s romance and it happens to be a pansexual race of blue mono-gender aliens w/ an entriely feminine appearance. It just simply doesn't feel like a true s/s romance. Everyone in the ME universe is attracted to the Asari regardless of race or gender. On the other hand, Kelly Chambers...

[Siansonea]

Asari are female. I have spoken. It's even in the OP.

Asari make baby asari. Organisms that can do that are called "females" whether they're plants, animals or humans. Female isn't a category that's hard to break into. You don't even have to give birth, just ask male seahorses. Asari make new asari, they don't split in half and regrow the missing halves to reproduce. So, they're female. Females aren't defined by the presence of males in a species. Some species don't have males, any species that reproduces by parthenogenesis doesn't really need males. But every species needs females. If you don't have a female, you don't have a baby, and if you don't have a baby, you don't have a species. Period.

And that's all that I have to say about that. As far as the meta-consideration of male fanservice, well, what of it? That may have been part of their concept, but it didn't start and end there, as the asari are clearly not a textbook example of the "Orion Slave Girl" trope, and there's a tremendous amount of variety among individual asari in the games.

[Ravensword]

Siansonea II wrote...

Asari are female. I have spoken. It's even in the OP.

Asari make baby asari. Organisms that can do that are called "females" whether they're plants, animals or humans. Female isn't a category that's hard to break into. You don't even have to give birth, just ask male seahorses. Asari make new asari, they don't split in half and regrow the missing halves to reproduce. So, they're female. Females aren't defined by the presence of males in a species. Some species don't have males, any species that reproduces by parthenogenesis doesn't really need males. But every species needs females. If you don't have a female, you don't have a baby, and if you don't have a baby, you don't have a species. Period.

And that's all that I have to say about that. As far as the meta-consideration of male fanservice, well, what of it? That may have been part of their concept, but it didn't start and end there, as the asari are clearly not a textbook example of the "Orion Slave Girl" trope, and there's a tremendous amount of variety among individual asari in the games.

Fine then. I concede. It still bothers me a bit but I won't bring it up again. No hard feelings.

[ElitePinecone]

Siansonea II wrote...
the asari are clearly not a textbook example of the "Orion Slave Girl" trope, and there's a tremendous amount of variety among individual asari in the games.

Yeah, on the contrary I'd argue that almost every asari we've seen subverts the trope. 

We've seen asari in positions of power and influence that go far beyond "pandering to young heterosexual males"; even if this was the initial intention (or one of the intentions), many of the Bioware writers (especially Patrick Weekes) have made clear that they try to write strong female characters wherever possible. 

I also remember reading around the time of Mass Effect's release that Bioware deliberately wanted to subvert and undermine the "blue space lesbians" trope that had become so infamous in Star Trek and other 20th-century scifi, by creating an all-female species that was the most economically and politically powerful in the galaxy wihile also being attractive. So we have some asari that use sex appeal, but just as many who are badass mercenaries, effective diplomats, brilliant scientists, Spectres, mothers, daughters and lovers. 

Even if they were made for teenage-boy sex appeal - and I don't accept that they were, without researching it a bit more - the writers have shown that they can move way beyond it, and the asari characters we see now are probably the most nuaned and deep of all the alien species. 

We haven't seen many turians who aren't militaristic, nor salarians who aren't janitors or scientists. Asari might be the most diversely represented alien species in the game. 

[Cootie]

ANYWAY.
My intention wasn't to spark another argument-loop, but hey. I'm glad we've settled again. Phew.
Although, if anything, would you like another Asari love interest beyond Liara?(and Morinth?)
Why? Why not?
Who? Have someone in mind, already?

Also,
I don't know if this has been covered, but I was just wondering if the camera misbehaves around Miranda's lower back region or other such scenarios, even though you're playing a femShep?
I just have a vague memory of it, but I'd like it if I didn't have to replay the game just to check. >.<

[Athayniel]

My femShep certainly broke up the negative space created by "Dat Ass"™ at least once.

Modifié par Athayniel, 13 octobre 2011 - 09:09 .

[Ravensword]

Since you asked, I think it would be good to have another Asari LI. I if there was going to be another Asari LI it would be Shiala and I hope it would be Shiala the only problem is that I would be SOL because I have ME2 for the PS3. I think I would like to see Samara since I liked her almost-romance before she refused Shepard. It would be interesting to have and LI that can only be romanced by a Paragon like Samara, or a Renegade. I think it's highly unlikely that Samara will be an LI though. Maybe there will be a new Asari NPC in ME3 that will be romanceable.

Same camera angles for Miranda regardless of gender I believe. I mean, c'mon, of course. They have to squeeze in some angles of dat ass.

[Dhiro]

Eh, I'd prefer a human lesbian LI, maybe even a female turian.

[Athayniel]

I think it's unlikely Samara will see anything beyond a temp squaddie appearance. She's in my top three list of ME2 characters and I love how her almost romance plays out. What my infiltrator woudn't give for her to change her mind...

[The Uncanny]

Cootie wrote...
Although, if anything, would you like another Asari love interest beyond Liara?(and Morinth?)

No. I have no interest in the asari. I really want to see a human LI.

Modifié par The Uncanny, 13 octobre 2011 - 11:53 .

[slimgrin]

Siansonea II wrote...


And that's all that I have to say about that. As far as the meta-consideration of male fanservice, well, what of it? That may have been part of their concept, but it didn't start and end there, as the asari are clearly not a textbook example of the "Orion Slave Girl" trope, and there's a tremendous amount of variety among individual asari in the games.

I saw an interview about the creation of the species in Mass Effect, and I believe the artists basically admitted there was an element of fanservice they were going for. But I agree with you. It doesn't start and end there. 

[Athayniel]

The Uncanny wrote...

Cootie wrote...
Although, if anything, would you like another Asari love interest beyond Liara?(and Morinth?)

No. I have no interest in the asari. I really want to see a human LI.

I think we've got some great human LIs already that could just use a little deeper exploration. I think you'd agree.

[The Uncanny]

Athayniel wrote...

I think we've got some great human LIs already that could just use a little deeper exploration. I think you'd agree.

I do indeed! Deep exploration sounds like just the ticket! :innocent:

[Ravensword]

Athayniel wrote...

The Uncanny wrote...

Cootie wrote...
Although, if anything, would you like another Asari love interest beyond Liara?(and Morinth?)

No. I have no interest in the asari. I really want to see a human LI.

I think we've got some great human LIs already that could just use a little deeper exploration. I think you'd agree.

Like who Miranda and the VS? Next!