25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Athayniel]

Wulfram wrote...

If Salarians can be attracted to them despite not really having a sex drive, then so can straight women.  Or gay men.

Sex drive and attraction are not so intimately related. It is perfectly possible to find someone attractive and have no interest in having sex with them. Unless you're implying asari have some sort of super-pheromones or mind powers then straight women and gay men won't be attracted to them.

[Wulfram]

Athayniel wrote...

Sex drive and attraction are not so intimately related. It is perfectly possible to find someone attractive and have no interest in having sex with them. Unless you're implying asari have some sort of super-pheromones or mind powers then straight women and gay men won't be attracted to them.

Asara are clearly established as being attractive to people who would not normally find their physical forms so.  How that works I can't say.

[Athayniel]

Wulfram wrote...

Asara are clearly established as being attractive to people who would not normally find their physical forms so.  How that works I can't say.

The truth is we have no idea what the relevant factors in attraction are for species like the salarians, turians and krogan etc. Beyond the bachelor party conversation we see at Club Eternity we have no real idea what the other species see in asari. We can be fairly certain of what drives human attraction and that barring any chemical enticement or latent telepathic effects the asari share a lot in common with human females in the appearance department, so we can expect humans who find those traits attractive to find asari attractive if the aspects of their alien biology do not turn them off.

[ElitePinecone]

^ On that, it's a cop-out to say "asari have magical pheromones/mind-control that make people fall in love with them", as if it implies that people who wouldn't be interested in women would find an asari attractive.

For starters, it's nonsense that any pheromones could work across species boundaries, and biotics don't do anything except raise or lower something's mass. Asari reproduction included, they can't actually control minds.

Point being: don't assume that salarian biology surrounding reproduction means that there's a biological reason for finding asari attractive. It's just as likely there's a socio-cultural one. Even if the attraction were biological (and if this wasn't a stuff-up by the writers who decided to make the salarians asexual between ME and ME2), you can't then extend salarians to straight women and gay men. The leap of logic doesn't work.

[.shea.]

ElitePinecone wrote...

^ On that, it's a cop-out to say "asari have magical pheromones/mind-control that make people fall in love with them", as if it implies that people who wouldn't be interested in women would find an asari attractive.

This, straight femShep in ME1 can even turn Liara down by saying that she's only attracted to men (maybe the magical pheromones don't work on femShep?).

[cFK]

I personally want me a shepard junior.as in a baby/ offspring

[Wulfram]

So Asari attraction works across species but orientation is a line which it can never cross?  That seems pretty arbitrary.

It's ironic that this piece of fanon is so vigorously defended, when this thread is so dismissive of other peoples fanon about the orientation of squad members. 

Telling people that they're doing things wrong when they choose to have their Shepard act in a manner which fits with the lore really isn't very helpful.

Note that I'm not saying that looking like hot human women wouldn't help if you like human women.  Or, frankly, that Asari sexuality in Mass Effect makes any sort of sense.

[Xilizhra]

One thing that is interesting to note is that if asari aren't women, a Maleshep who romances Liara isn't necessarily straight.

[SandTrout]

Xilizhra wrote...

One thing that is interesting to note is that if asari aren't women, a Maleshep who romances Liara isn't necessarily straight.

A Shepard that romances any alien is specifying a sexual preference of "Other".

[Andaius20]

So male and female, turians, quarians, krogans, elcor, hanar, and pretty much every other alien race beside Asari don't exist?

[ElitePinecone]

Wulfram wrote...

So Asari attraction works across species but orientation is a line which it can never cross?  That seems pretty arbitrary.

It's arbitrary in the sense that it's completely up to the mindset or sexual psychology of the other species. There's no "universal rule of asari attraction" that every single individual in the galaxy, bar none, is attracted to asari. 

We don't know the norms of salarians, krogan, turians, quarians, etc. It's barely been touched on in the universe, let alone given a proper explanation. There could be countless biological, social or cultural reasons for these species finding asari attractive - this includes sexual attraction or just romantic love. 

But we do know human behaviour, and we have an example of a female human (Shepard) refusing the advances because she associates Liara with women. We have Nef, another human, comparing Morinth to "a girl like me" (I'm not even gonna go into the awkward mess that is Nef's brief lines in ME2). In both those cases, humans see asari (in sexual terms, at least) as analogous enough to women to make being attracted to them analogous to being attracted to women.

This argument is probably pointless and nitpicky. I'm not saying people can't do interesting things when the lore is so vague, or downright contradictory, in this area. But having a gay male human attracted to asari sexually seems to me to be enormously unlikely. 

[Wulfram]

ElitePinecone wrote...

It's arbitrary in the sense that it's completely up to the mindset or sexual psychology of the other species. There's no "universal rule of asari attraction" that every single individual in the galaxy, bar none, is attracted to asari. 

We don't know the norms of salarians, krogan, turians, quarians, etc. It's barely been touched on in the universe, let alone given a proper explanation. There could be countless biological, social or cultural reasons for these species finding asari attractive - this includes sexual attraction or just romantic love.

But what is pretty clear is that Asari find partners with all these species.  Which is a pretty clear indication that the Asari's physical appearance does not pose an insurmountable barrier to relationships.

But we do know human behaviour, and we have an example of a female human (Shepard) refusing the advances because she associates Liara with women. We have Nef, another human, comparing Morinth to "a girl like me" (I'm not even gonna go into the awkward mess that is Nef's brief lines in ME2). In both those cases, humans see asari (in sexual terms, at least) as analogous enough to women to make being attracted to them analogous to being attracted to women.

And Shepard can also be an example of a human being attracted to her despite indicating that she's not normally attracted to other women.  As could Nef, if you wanted to read it that way.

This argument is probably pointless and nitpicky. I'm not saying people can't do interesting things when the lore is so vague, or downright contradictory, in this area. But having a gay male human attracted to asari sexually seems to me to be enormously unlikely. 

I don't think it's unlikely.  Though it probably wouldn't be as common as straight men.

[Athayniel]

Wulfram wrote...

But what is pretty clear is that Asari find partners with all these species.  Which is a pretty clear indication that the Asari's physical appearance does not pose an insurmountable barrier to relationships.

As ElitePinecone and I have tried to explain to you, we don't know what other species find attractive at all, so we don't know why they may be inclined to enter into relationships with asari. What we can speak to is what humans find attractive and considering the physical similarities asari share with human females it is easy to understand why heterosexual men and lesbians would find asari attractive.

And Shepard can also be an example of a human being attracted to her despite indicating that she's not normally attracted to other women.  As could Nef, if you wanted to read it that way.

She can if you want to play her that way. It would be unlikely that such a Shepard wouldn't at least have an inclination or openmindedness to finding human women sexually attractive as well. We have a good idea how human attraction works after all.

I don't think it's unlikely.  Though it probably wouldn't be as common as straight men.

From what we know of human psychology and sexuality it is unlikely.

[Abispa]

It is possible for a "straight" man to fall in love with another man as it is for a "straight" woman to fall in love with another woman. Military organizations that frown on s/s relationships have tried to stop this for ages. In prolonged intense situations can bring out feelings between soldiers that goes beyond the "brothers in arms" and a soldier can come to realize that s/he loves his/her fellow soldier more than anything else.

Maybe such feelings would never have manifested themselves outside of their military experience, but the fact remains that s/he is attracted toward someone of the same gender and is capable of having a "gay" relationship. Many gays do join the military, but many who have been removed from the military for violating regulations have stated that they never realized that they could be attracted to the same gender until their service.

The argument that Shepard COULD be a gay man attracted to Asari is a good one. Nothing is set in stone when it comes to love and it could happen. Female Shepard tells Liara that she never expected to find love in the arms of a Turian. Garrus doesn't find humans attractive yet can still fall for Shepard. That's why I find the anti-s/s crowd so amazingly dense. Not only is it possible for a character to be "bi" so long as their "straight" status has never been stated, but the ME games have already introduced the concept that characters are capable of developing an attraction for characters they originally would never have considered.

[Negam]

Xilizhra wrote...

One thing that is interesting to note is that if asari aren't women, a Maleshep who romances Liara isn't necessarily straight.

This. I´ve always found very suspicious the sexuality of all those male 'straight' Shepards who romance "not-exactly-a-woman" Liara.

[Abispa]

@ Xilizhra & Negan -- Very interesting. So, do you think that the Asari may be a clever means to achieve gay indoctrination by subtly altering male Shepard's preference toward beings who "don't count" as women?

[Negam]

I think that:

a) the asari are an all-girl species;
a Liaramancing Shepard, whether male or female, must feel atracted to female humans, too;
c) thus, a Liaramancing FemShep is lesbian (or bisexual), and...
d) a Liaramancing male Shepard is straight (or bisexual), IMO, but...

those who oppose s/s relationships want to negate that the FemShepXLiara romance involves two women. In order to do so, they resort to negating Liara´s femaleness by repeating the "not-exactly-a-woman" BS. By doing so, they think they have a solid argument by which they can prove male and female Shepard´s 'established heterosexuality'. But, by negating Liara´s femaleness, they conveniently ignore the obvious implication that, thus, Liaramancing male Shepards´ sexuality becomes highly suspicious. Of course I think that Liaramancing male Shepards are straight, because Liara is female IMO. When I said that I found Liaramancing male Shepard´s sexuality suspicious I wasn´t expressing my true point of view. It´s just something I wish I could ask to SSR opposers. "So, your mShep romanced ´not-exactly-a-woman´ Liara. What´s your guy´s sexuality, then?"

Modifié par Negam, 15 octobre 2011 - 06:52 .

[Athayniel]

I bet they'd call their Shep xenosexual. Because it's not homosexual you see? It's not.

Of course their Talimancing dudeShep is totally straight.

Modifié par Athayniel, 15 octobre 2011 - 06:53 .

[iwannarockx0]

My cousin is bi. She says she has romanced opposite sex in past games. I have heard that another romance from a previous mass effect will conflict with current love intrest(EX: you romanced ashley in ME1 and Miranda in ME2 so there will be a problem in ME3) Will this happen if you romance a women then a man? can you switch from gender to gender?

[Athayniel]

iwannarockx0 wrote...

My cousin is bi. She says she has romanced opposite sex in past games. I have heard that another romance from a previous mass effect will conflict with current love intrest(EX: you romanced ashley in ME1 and Miranda in ME2 so there will be a problem in ME3) Will this happen if you romance a women then a man? can you switch from gender to gender?

The details of these possible confrontations is still unknown, but I suspect the gender of the respective LIs is irrelevant. Still, I would think the passage of time between ME1 and ME2 should invalidate anyone's prior claim on Shep in much the same way that Liara does in ME2 already. Now if Shep has a dalliance with a different LI in ME3 as they romanced in ME2 then I hope they get their ass handed to them on a silver platter with garnish.

[Abispa]

iwannarockx0 wrote...

My cousin is bi. She says she has romanced opposite sex in past games. I have heard that another romance from a previous mass effect will conflict with current love intrest(EX: you romanced ashley in ME1 and Miranda in ME2 so there will be a problem in ME3) Will this happen if you romance a women then a man? can you switch from gender to gender?

Kaidan and Liara get annoyed if female Shepard tries having it both ways in ME1, so I imagine that any hard feelings expressed in ME3 will happen regardless of what gender the previous and the current LI are. LotSB can already help establish that the Shepard/Liara relationship is over if s/he has a new LI when s/he does the mission, and the VS pretty much assumes the romance is over after Horizon, though they leave the door open for reconsiliation in ME3.

I imagine that the VS may have a tense scene or snide party banter with the new LI, but I doubt we'll get any of the epic cat fights from Baldur's Gate II since I believe they're mature enough to move on. The only question I have is Liara IF you play LotSB before consumating a new ME2 romance, which is the only way to actually cheat on someone so far.

[Quething]

Liara wouldn't care. She's fine with the suggestion of a threesome in ME1, it's the human partner who bows out. In ME2 she'll toss a bit of jealousy at you at the Azure if you've slept with someone else, but she doesn't consider it a real obstacle to you reconciling if Shep's still interested. Even if you turn her down, she says "ok. Maybe someday you'll change your mind. I'll be here."

She doesn't put a lot of conditions on her affection for Shep. By which I mean, any at all. If you "cheat" on Liara she'll just ask you to choose her and give puppy eyes and say "ok" if you don't.

I really hope we don't get cat fights. Or if we do, than they're between, like, Jacob and Kaidan. My favorite thing about DA2's relationships was not even the "all bi" thing, much as I loved that - it was that the petty eyeball-scratching jealousy crap was between Fenris and Anders, while Isabela and Merrill absolutely love each other regardless of whether either or both are interested in Hawke. It's such a delicious reversal of the incredibly tedious, overdone "women can't be friends, especially when a man is involved" cliche, and I'd hate to see a reversion in ME3 with Miranda and Ashley sniping all ****y and jealous at each other while Thane and Vega are all mature and brofist about it.

[Xilizhra]

It helps too that Anders and Fenris hate each other anyway, so no prior relationship is being damaged. It's just one more thing to attack each other with.

[Siansonea]

Hmmm, let's see, who's most likely to flip out if Shepard cheats?

Kaidan—Not likely to flip out, as evidenced by the "confrontation" scene in ME1. More than likely he'd just clam up.
Jacob—Possible "cuttlebone" petulance, but that's about it.
Garrus—Zero drama.
Thane—Will probably cry.

Ashley—Not likely to completely flip out, as evidenced by the "confrontation" scene in ME1. She'd probably have a few choice words for Shepard though.
Liara—Puppy dog eyes, but no real drama.
Miranda—A raised eyebrow, if you're lucky, and that's it.
Tali—Lots of tears, she'd be very hurt.
Jack—Flying furniture and lots curse words.
Kelly—Meh, after surviving the Collectors' pods, she can deal with a little heartbreak.