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[Abispa]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Hybrids make science cry.

I think science rolled its eyes and gave up on sci-fi VGs long ago after the first Metroid came out.

[AngelicMachinery]

Abispa wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Hybrids make science cry.

I think science rolled its eyes and gave up on sci-fi VGs long ago after the first Metroid came out.

Hey,  I've been playing dues ex, and it seems like it's pretty realistic...

and terribly sexy.

[LyndseyCousland]

The thing about a fantasy/sci-fi world is that science doesn't exactly have to play by the book. I don't get why no-one understands that. I will however say 'Hell no' to any hybrid alien babies with the Quarians because that would be amazingly daft to me.

I was really disappointed that not one of the ME2 LIs were bisexual - not including Kelly, she was more a sex interest. I really thought that Tali and Jack were going to be up for it, and was pretty let down when it didn't happen. Saved my FemShep from cheating on Liara, I guess.

[Quething]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Re: depictions of s/s in ME versus DA, I agree that neither are a shining example of diversity. I guess the fact that the player can engage in s/s relationships, and that there are other NPCs involved in them in Thedas, made me warm more to the DA setting. Zev's romance is quite sweet in the end (his ratio of men to women is irrelevant, unless you think a predominently-gay LI is more genuine?) and even the incidental references to s/s relationships and minor characters is more immersion-building than Mass Effect.

It's not about the ratio. It's about the fact that the only meaningful or healthy relationships anyone has had, regardless of sexuality, are straight ones. It's about the fact that the only queer male describes his queerness as something odd even for him.

I think debates about asari on this thread are almost inevitable. They're a pretty problematic concept to begin with. The fact that they're thus far nearly the entirety of ME s/s content means they're also a fairly ubiquitous one, particularly to our topics of interest. :shrug:

[maxernst]

Quething wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

Re: depictions of s/s in ME versus DA, I agree that neither are a shining example of diversity. I guess the fact that the player can engage in s/s relationships, and that there are other NPCs involved in them in Thedas, made me warm more to the DA setting. Zev's romance is quite sweet in the end (his ratio of men to women is irrelevant, unless you think a predominently-gay LI is more genuine?) and even the incidental references to s/s relationships and minor characters is more immersion-building than Mass Effect.

It's not about the ratio. It's about the fact that the only meaningful or healthy relationships anyone has had, regardless of sexuality, are straight ones. It's about the fact that the only queer male describes his queerness as something odd even for him.

Your companions are extremely screwed up people in DA:O and DA2.  Other than Aveline, I don't think any of them have ever had a meaningful, healthy relationship.

[Quething]

Wynne is screwed up? Alistair is screwed up? And who said I was limiting comparisons to the party? Are Malcolm and Leandra screwed up? Fergus and Orana, Elanor and Bryce? Does Eamon not clearly love Isolde? Does Cyrion not speak of Anaya as the light of his life? What about that family whose daughter you help out in the City Elf origin, or Mahariel's mother who loved her husband so much she died of a broken heart, or even Rica and Bhelen for a casteless Brosca?

And of course, Aveline and Donnic. Carver flirting with Merrill and Sebastian with Bethany. The one good person in Isabela's life. There is not a shortage of healthy het relationships in the Dragon Age verse.

Of course, there are men at the brothels and a few obscure s/s mentions in the codex, so I suppose they're still doing better at non-PC worldbuilding than ME.

[Xilizhra]

Carver flirting with Merrill and Sebastian with Bethany.

Hell no. I have no real worries about the former because Merrill is with me, but... if Sebastian starts putting any kind of moves on Bethany, I will, shall we say, make it much easier for him to keep to his vows.

[jlb524]

Yeah, I've noticed that the DA2 LIs are either involved in some form of hetero sex relationship (Isabela/Fenris) or hetero flirting (Merrill/Carver, though Merrill doesn't seem at all interested so I guess that's okay until they inevitably put them together at the end of course, and then Sebastian/Bethany, which I don't know that much about).

[Xilizhra]

Luckily, I happen to sleep with two-thirds of the female participants in said relationships, so can possibly head them off (my odds of making it three for three, alas, don't seem high).

[Quething]

That's what the kmeme is for.

I like Beth/Sebastian, though. I think he suffers too much from being DLC, in addition to the short dev cycle. He should respond differently to falling in love with a mage!Hawke; it would give a good template for how he could interact with Bethany.

And hey, now there's a thought. We've talked before about how it'd be nice if more characters responded the way Samara did, with different relationships and availablilty between Renegade and Paragon Sheps (even if Samara, the ultimate Renegade, is an oddly backward choice), but what about other stuff? I've always thought Tali would be most likely to be attracted to a Spacer Engineer or Infiltrator, for instance (I greatly rue the lack of a Spacer-specific response to her "You have a home!" rant on the Alerai). Or maybe Jacob has a thing for other biotics. Could be an interesting way to add variety to relationships without walking the dangerous line of gender specificity.

Modifié par Quething, 20 octobre 2011 - 01:24 .

[Xilizhra]

I might like Sebastian more if he wasn't a templar sympathizer. As it stands, though, I want no one from the Chantry anywhere near Bethany.

[Ravensword]

Blah, blah, blah. Do I have to play DA:O to understand DA2?

Modifié par Ravensword, 20 octobre 2011 - 02:45 .

[ElitePinecone]

The incidental mentions or appearances of "queer" content does help, in my opinion. At the very least it's an indication that it exists in the world, and that the representations we see in the party, or the arguable absence of healthy relationships, might not be universal.

The Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC partly helped by giving us al-Jilani's relationship with an asari, and the turian hunter Gavorn apparently sleeping with a human male. But I get the feeling they were included as a nod to fans or comic relief rather than a serious portrayal.

[jlb524]

Ravensword wrote...

Blah, blah, blah. Do I have to play DA:O to understand DA2?

No, not really.

There are codex entries if you want to catch up on the lore.

[Ravensword]

jlb524 wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Blah, blah, blah. Do I have to play DA:O to understand DA2?

No, not really.

There are codex entries if you want to catch up on the lore.

Ferris95 wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Blah, blah, blah. Do I have to play DA:) to understand DA2?

Technically speaking; no. It's your choice really.

Dragon Age Origins
Pros:

• Branching questlines
• Methodical combat
• In depth look at the world (Thedas)
• Morally challenging choices
• Loads and loads of replayiblity (I've played it at least 6 times and each time got a fresh experience)

Cons:

• Characters who mostly just spout exposition
• Slow combat
• Lack luster DLC

Dragon Age 2
Pros:

• Non-traditional story (YMMV)
• Improved combat
• Interesting political tension
• DLC that serves as an enhancement of the base game
• Excellent character/character interactions

Cons:

• Non-traditional story (YMMV)
• Dreadfully slow opening
• A few facepalm moments of raildroading
• Low replayibility (I managed only about 3 playthroughs before things got stale)

Both
come highly reccomended, but I would suggest playing them both. DA:O
did a great job of setting up the Dragon Age 'verse and DA:2 excelled at
exploring it on a smaller scale.

Tl;Dr: DA:O isn't neccassary to play DA2 but it is reccomended.

Much obliged. I will look into it after I preorder ME3.

[Abispa]

I don't mean to make this a DA thread, but my own experience is that DA:O is higher quality game and DOES have more options than DA2, but that the parts that are nearly identical in all the play-throughs are so amazingly long and painful after the second run that I often give up. I have a dozen or so characters I never bothered to take to the end because of the Fade and the Deep Roads segments.

DA2 is flawed, but it is so easy to breeze through to the parts I DO enjoy that I've actually finished about a dozen characters already.

BUT, back on topic...

It is pretty obvious that most of us are assuming that the DA2 s/s experience and fan reaction will at least have SOME influence to how it will be handled in ME3, but what do you think the ME team should NOT imitate or should improve on from the DA team's work?

Modifié par Abispa, 20 octobre 2011 - 03:23 .

[FoxHound109]

Dragon Age II is superior to Origins if only because it doesn't have the God awful Fade maze.

[lost.long.ago]

FoxHound109 wrote...

Dragon Age II is superior to Origins if only because it doesn't have the God awful Fade maze.

*maybe super minor spoiler about gameplay... idk...

Once you go through it and realize what orders to do things in, I freakin love it!  Getting to shape-shift from a hunk of rock to a tiny rodent to a phantom-like mage to a being engulfed in flames?  Epic

So off topic now...

Modifié par lost.long.ago, 20 octobre 2011 - 03:58 .

[Wittand25]

Quething wrote...

Wynne is screwed up? Alistair is screwed up? And who said I was limiting comparisons to the party? Are Malcolm and Leandra screwed up? Fergus and Orana, Elanor and Bryce? Does Eamon not clearly love Isolde? Does Cyrion not speak of Anaya as the light of his life? What about that family whose daughter you help out in the City Elf origin, or Mahariel's mother who loved her husband so much she died of a broken heart, or even Rica and Bhelen for a casteless Brosca?

And of course, Aveline and Donnic. Carver flirting with Merrill and Sebastian with Bethany. The one good person in Isabela's life. There is not a shortage of healthy het relationships in the Dragon Age verse.

Of course, there are men at the brothels and a few obscure s/s mentions in the codex, so I suppose they're still doing better at non-PC worldbuilding than ME.

And Wade and Herren in DA:O and DA:A. And you ignore the messed up straight relationships/characters like Maric cheating on Rowan, whathisname from the city elf origin, ... , everyone in DA:A (honetly there is not a single straight relationship in the expansion that does not end in murder,suicide or adultery)

[jeweledleah]

FoxHound109 wrote...

Dragon Age II is superior to Origins if only because it doesn't have the God awful Fade maze.

there's a skip fade mod.  though honestly, fade is not nearly as bad as orzamar... and you can get a lot and I mean a LOT of skill points from fade, if you exploit a bug.

[MACharlie1]

I know I'll get flak for this but...

In terms of characterization and just general "life" of characters - DA blows ME out of the water. All the characters in DA (both Origins and II) felt real - they all interacted with each other and you felt like each of them was different and everything you said mattered in terms of who you were with. You really got to know and each of the characters relationship with the main character - their feelings, motivations, etc. ME is unfortunately pretty linear in this department. What you say really doesn't make a difference except when you want to bang.

[Cootie]

MACharlie1 wrote...

What you say really doesn't make a difference except when you want to bang.

HOW IS THIS DIFFERENT FROM REAL LIFE!?!

*cough*

Hurr, anyhow.
About what the ME team should NOT imitate from the DA-games, hmm.
It's difficult, because I really liked the DA2 romances.

Maybe avoid those traps that made a lot of people uncomfortable? Like that one infamous scene with Anders where you can't let him down easy?
Oh, and please, don't force us to shower our LIs with gifts a la DA:O.

I really liked the Rival-system, though. Hm, would that be interesting in ME-3?