25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Abispa]

The code doesn't forbid snuggle-bunnies, I thought. I assume her chastity was due to the fact that SHE carries the gene that creates Agent Yatzees (forgive my spelling), and she's a matron/matriarch, she was past the maiden years of having sex for fun and had a desire to grow old raising children. Unfortunately she can't any more.

It really wasn't until someone brought it up on this thread that the Asari social norm of making "pure-bloods" outcasts created a race of self-hating lesbians. I'm sure Bioware didn't intend it, but it IS a shame, really.

Modifié par Abispa, 23 octobre 2011 - 02:25 .

[Quething]

No, the Code doesn't.

But the sense I get from Samara is that... her self-image as a Justicar does, I guess? She became a Justicar as a sort of abdication of personal responsibility. She doesn't want to make another mistake like Morinth, but of course having a vampire for a daughter isn't something that's actually within her control. It's just... a thing that happened. So she fled into a worldview where things can't ever just happen. If her actions cleave to the Code, she can't screw up again. She's safe, and she's absolved of any kind of Morinth-like guilt and free of any Morinth-like mistakes in the future.

But that very much requires there being nothing but the Code. Other Justicars follow the Code for other reasons, and thus presumably can have personal lives so long as those lives don't interfere (I imagine it'd be a hassle, since you'd have to shank your beloved if she shorted a tip, but every relationship has its foibles). But Samara making decisions of her own outside the Code would give her responsibility and allow her to screw up again, which would defeat the whole point. So she avoids relationships because they make her no longer 100% by-the-Code Justicar.

Which has nothing to do with the Ardat-Yakshi thing directly, and of course, why would it? She doesn't have to have kids to have sex with Shep, and even if they did have kids they wouldn't be pureblood and couldn't be A-Y anyway.

But it does still draw the unfortunate inadvertent connection that "a pureblood who prefers other asari swore herself to celibacy in order to cleave more closely to the ultimate standard of asari lawfulness and righteousness," which adds a bit of extra institutional/legal support to the queer-hating metaphor that we're otherwise supposed to dismiss as wrong.

Modifié par Quething, 23 octobre 2011 - 02:46 .

[Chun Hei]

Wow. I am going to check the title of this thread again. I was about to make another post about how happy my male Shepards are going to be shagging other guys.

[Dhiro]

I have to say I agree with Chun Hei. Samara is great, but she does (I think) have a character thread.

[Xilizhra]

But Samara making decisions of her own outside the Code would give her responsibility and allow her to screw up again, which would defeat the whole point. So she avoids relationships because they make her no longer 100% by-the-Code Justicar.

Which seems even less healthy and just gives one more reason for me to want to get her out of being a justicar.

[Ravensword]

Abispa wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Switch out Ashley for Kasumi and that would make this scene infinitely better.

But they already had sex, I thought. No, wait, that was that fan fiction story I read. I still don't understand that joke Kasumi told about enjoying food that's already covered in gravy...

What? I've heard no such thing about Kasumi. On the other hand, I've heard about this whole Kasumi lap dance thing.

[Chun Hei]

He likes to poke fun at Kasumi and Tali fans because their fans are pretty obsessive. I do think the Kasumi fans can get silly but at least they have a sense of humor unlike the Talimancers.

Modifié par Chun Hei, 23 octobre 2011 - 05:47 .

[Ravensword]

And unlike the Talimancers, we support Kasumi as a romance-able LI for both a male and female Shepard.

[ladyofpayne]

I'd perfer Bi Kasumi too.

[Athayniel]

Quething wrote...

Which has nothing to do with the Ardat-Yakshi thing directly, and of course, why would it? She doesn't have to have kids to have sex with Shep, and even if they did have kids they wouldn't be pureblood and couldn't be A-Y anyway.

Well we don't really know what the relationship between Ardat-Yakshi and purebloods actually is. I don't think it's ever been confirmed that only pureblood couples create Ardat-Yakshi or that it is just part of the stigma placed on purebloods but is not directly causal. I may be wrong but I imagine that Samara having already birthed three Ardat-Yakshi then her DNA is predisposed to producing Ardat-Yakshi. If there is a causal link between pureblood lineage and Ardat-Yakshi then is it a random thing that can happen with any pureblood bonding or is it dependent on the mother having a long lineage of pureblood ancestry? If it's the latter I suspect even a melding with Shepard, even a femShep (how's that for injecting the s/s), could conceivably produce Ardat-Yakshi children. If it is not related to pureblood meldings then the same holds.

[AngelicMachinery]

Dhiro wrote...

I have to say I agree with Chun Hei. Samara is great, but she does (I think) have a character thread.

I don't mean to be a ****,  but, no one ever seems to get agitated about Kaidan rambling in this thread.  So, what the hell is the difference?

[Ravensword]

ladyofpayne wrote...

I'd perfer Bi Kasumi too.

QFT.

[Comsky159]

Chun Hei wrote...

He likes to poke fun at Kasumi and Tali fans because their fans are pretty obsessive. I do think the Kasumi fans can get silly but at least they have a sense of humor unlike the Talimancers.

Ah and so the overarching bigotry surfaces once again. Do you have any idea how much jeering and condemnation my people have borne for the last 4.82 years? They're human beings just like you and me. I'm so sick at the consistent generalisations and discriminatory attitudes proffered towards talimancers, as if they're second class citizens of the BSN. It's time we learn to accept each other's different forms of nerdiness and live peacefully as equals.

[ElitePinecone]

The denigration of other people's favourite characters (or the fact that they prefer them) is pretty... unedifying. Even petty. Childish?

I mean, this is Fight for the Love, not "Fight for the Love, except for a few particular characters because I deem their fans to be obsessive and unworthy".

For a group and a thread that says it's open-minded, some people can be frustratingly parochial. How can we say we're all for inclusiveness when certain groups are ridiculed? More to the point: it's not a good idea to throw stones in a metaphorical glasshouse. Defending one type of obsession because it's yours, and ridiculing others', is hypocritical at best.

[Dhiro]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

I have to say I agree with Chun Hei. Samara is great, but she does (I think) have a character thread.

I don't mean to be a ****,  but, no one ever seems to get agitated about Kaidan rambling in this thread.  So, what the hell is the difference?

Actually, that was my bad. I was under the impression that you guys were talking about Samara without including the S/S bits, but after re-reading the posts I see I was wrong.

Sorry, guys. 

[silentassassin264]

Siansonea II wrote...

Uh, why are we debating Samara's status as a "renegade"? She's the exact opposite of a renegade. Renegades don't play by the rules. Samara does EVERYTHING by the rules. They're just different rules devised by a different culture, and the entire asari race reveres the Justicars. They are officially recognized by the asari government and in asari space, the word of a Justicar is law. As to the situation with the village of Morinth's thralls, the Code must have required that Samara use lethal force, or she wouldn't have. And I can see why: An unconscious asari can reawaken and become a threat again, one that the Justicar would not see coming. You don't leave a threat behind you, that's very bad tactics.

While I have a rebuttal, I would much rather talk about bi Tali in this thread then rant on an off-topic subject in which I clearly seem to be in the minority opinion.  

So anyway, since everyone from ME2 can be killed off and Ashley can be Virmire'd, how about Tali and the new girl who was tease tweeted about about?

[jeweledleah]

ElitePinecone wrote...

The denigration of other people's favourite characters (or the fact that they prefer them) is pretty... unedifying. Even petty. Childish?

I mean, this is Fight for the Love, not "Fight for the Love, except for a few particular characters because I deem their fans to be obsessive and unworthy".

For a group and a thread that says it's open-minded, some people can be frustratingly parochial. How can we say we're all for inclusiveness when certain groups are ridiculed? More to the point: it's not a good idea to throw stones in a metaphorical glasshouse. Defending one type of obsession because it's yours, and ridiculing others', is hypocritical at best.

I just wanted to confess my purely platinic love for you, for this.  you keep saying awesome things again and again and are one of my favorite posters on BSN.

that is all

[xSTONEYx187x]

Abispa wrote...

The code doesn't forbid snuggle-bunnies, I thought. I assume her chastity was due to the fact that SHE carries the gene that creates Agent Yatzees (forgive my spelling), and she's a matron/matriarch, she was past the maiden years of having sex for fun and had a desire to grow old raising children. Unfortunately she can't any more.

It really wasn't until someone brought it up on this thread that the Asari social norm of making "pure-bloods" outcasts created a race of self-hating lesbians. I'm sure Bioware didn't intend it, but it IS a shame, really.

Did you mean Ardat-Yakshi? 

[Athayniel]

xSTONEYx187x wrote...

Abispa wrote...

The code doesn't forbid snuggle-bunnies, I thought. I assume her chastity was due to the fact that SHE carries the gene that creates Agent Yatzees (forgive my spelling), and she's a matron/matriarch, she was past the maiden years of having sex for fun and had a desire to grow old raising children. Unfortunately she can't any more.

It really wasn't until someone brought it up on this thread that the Asari social norm of making "pure-bloods" outcasts created a race of self-hating lesbians. I'm sure Bioware didn't intend it, but it IS a shame, really.

Did you mean Ardat-Yakshi? 

Abispa always says *exactly* what he means.

[PMC65]

jeweledleah wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

The denigration of other people's favourite characters (or the fact that they prefer them) is pretty... unedifying. Even petty. Childish?

I mean, this is Fight for the Love, not "Fight for the Love, except for a few particular characters because I deem their fans to be obsessive and unworthy".

For a group and a thread that says it's open-minded, some people can be frustratingly parochial. How can we say we're all for inclusiveness when certain groups are ridiculed? More to the point: it's not a good idea to throw stones in a metaphorical glasshouse. Defending one type of obsession because it's yours, and ridiculing others', is hypocritical at best.

I just wanted to confess my purely platinic love for you, for this.  you keep saying awesome things again and again and are one of my favorite posters on BSN.

that is all

Oh, crush confessions of the platonic kind ...

I find I have crushes on ElitePinecone & AngelicMachinery .

If I see a posting by either I am compelled to read them.  

[Chun Hei]

Comsky159 wrote...

Chun Hei wrote...

He likes to poke fun at Kasumi and Tali fans because their fans are pretty obsessive. I do think the Kasumi fans can get silly but at least they have a sense of humor unlike the Talimancers.

Ah and so the overarching bigotry surfaces once again. Do you have any idea how much jeering and condemnation my people have borne for the last 4.82 years? They're human beings just like you and me. I'm so sick at the consistent generalisations and discriminatory attitudes proffered towards talimancers, as if they're second class citizens of the BSN. It's time we learn to accept each other's different forms of nerdiness and live peacefully as equals.

Spare me your outrage. I have expressed support and appreciation of open-minded Talimancers in the past and will probably do so again in the future. I apologize if you are being sarcastic but the official Talimancer thread will forbid discussions by s/s Talimancers wanting to see her become an option in ME3 but will allow "straight" Talimancers go on defending her heterosexuality and debate whether or not she can be impregnated by "manly" Spepard. I have in the past complained about the intolerance of the Garrus Bros who have a similar attitude. As characters I romance Garrus and I like Tali (but not as a romance).

I have no problem if you are a Talimancer. I would have a problem with you if you were a hypocritical and homophobic and do not "accept each other's different forms of nerdiness and live peacefully as equals."

I have praised Miranda fans on her thread for being open-minded toward s/s Miranda fans even though I cannot stand her character.

I have read Abispa's discussions with Kasumi fans about how her fans see her character and like the Talimancers they can write an epic tome in response to a comment that will present a detailed canon of how she should be perceived. I say THEY have a sense of humor since more often than not they will admit their obsessiveness and seem more than willing to accept that the Kasumi in another player's games may be different.

It has been a while since I have seen her community so I do not know if it has changed.

[Chun Hei]

ElitePinecone wrote...

The denigration of other people's favourite characters (or the fact that they prefer them) is pretty... unedifying. Even petty. Childish?

I mean, this is Fight for the Love, not "Fight for the Love, except for a few particular characters because I deem their fans to be obsessive and unworthy".

For a group and a thread that says it's open-minded, some people can be frustratingly parochial. How can we say we're all for inclusiveness when certain groups are ridiculed? More to the point: it's not a good idea to throw stones in a metaphorical glasshouse. Defending one type of obsession because it's yours, and ridiculing others', is hypocritical at best.

I agree.

[Chun Hei]

PMC65 wrote...

I find I have crushes on ElitePinecone & AngelicMachinery .

If I see a posting by either I am compelled to read them.  

If they become LIs in ME3 I will make sure to create Shepards for them. And a cute Latino Shepard for IsaacShep.

[Chun Hei]

Athayniel wrote...

xSTONEYx187x wrote...

Abispa wrote...

The code doesn't forbid snuggle-bunnies, I thought. I assume her chastity was due to the fact that SHE carries the gene that creates Agent Yatzees (forgive my spelling), and she's a matron/matriarch, she was past the maiden years of having sex for fun and had a desire to grow old raising children. Unfortunately she can't any more.

It really wasn't until someone brought it up on this thread that the Asari social norm of making "pure-bloods" outcasts created a race of self-hating lesbians. I'm sure Bioware didn't intend it, but it IS a shame, really.

Did you mean Ardat-Yakshi? 

Abispa always says *exactly* what he means.

Yes. He said he needed forgiveness for his spelling.

[shepskisaac]

Chun Hei wrote...

Spare me your outrage. I have expressed support and appreciation of open-minded Talimancers in the past and will probably do so again in the future. I apologize if you are being sarcastic but the official Talimancer thread will forbid discussions by s/s Talimancers wanting to see her become an option in ME3 but will allow "straight" Talimancers go on defending her heterosexuality and debate whether or not she can be impregnated by "manly" Spepard. I have in the past complained about the intolerance of the Garrus Bros who have a similar attitude. As characters I romance Garrus and I like Tali (but not as a romance).

I have no problem if you are a Talimancer. I would have a problem with you if you were a hypocritical and homophobic and do not "accept each other's different forms of nerdiness and live peacefully as equals."

I have praised Miranda fans on her thread for being open-minded toward s/s Miranda fans even though I cannot stand her character.

I have read Abispa's discussions with Kasumi fans about how her fans see her character and like the Talimancers they can write an epic tome in response to a comment that will present a detailed canon of how she should be perceived. I say THEY have a sense of humor since more often than not they will admit their obsessiveness and seem more than willing to accept that the Kasumi in another player's games may be different.

It has been a while since I have seen her community so I do not know if it has changed.

Ain't nobody gives a crap if Talimancers love Tali. The problem here is how hypocrite many of them are. It's sad that they give bad name to the smart, peaceful Tali fans, but unfortunately the fact is Tali's fanbase has the biggest number of s/s opponents and hypocrites at the same time who don't know anything about "accepting each other's different forms of nerdiness and live peacefully as equals."