25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

I'd never thought about that before, but that's a really good point.

Of course, if this was overturned in ME3, it would be glorious.

As for Vega? Bears and the manly gay stereotype haven't permeated the wider culture to the same extent that the effeminate gay stereotype has. And so far as I know, there is no "manly bi" stereotype. So I suspect Vega being queer would still be a meaningful deviation from norm and shake some people's preconceptions up a bit.

If we must have a bloody new squadmate in the third part of the trilogy, I suppose this is the best we could do with him, true.

[jtav]

And I don't think BW would be willing to pus the envelope like that, not when the player base Vega seems designed to appeal to is stereotyped as making lots of homophobic insults.

Money's on Joker at this point.

[Xilizhra]

And I don't think BW would be willing to pus the envelope like that, not when the player base Vega seems designed to appeal to is stereotyped as making lots of homophobic insults.

He's also new, so it'd be quite easy.

[shepskisaac]

jtav wrote...

And I don't think BW would be willing to pus the envelope like that, not when the player base Vega seems designed to appeal to is stereotyped as making lots of homophobic insults.

Money's on Joker at this point.

I refuse to believe they would make non-squadmate comic-relief character the sole m/m LI in ME3.

[jtav]

Again, though, it's a riskier move then I give them credit for, since his defing characteristic seems to be "angry badass."

[Athayniel]

jtav wrote...

And I don't think BW would be willing to pus the envelope like that, not when the player base Vega seems designed to appeal to is stereotyped as making lots of homophobic insults.

Money's on Joker at this point.

Thing is I don't think that's entirely true, jtav. I know there is a vocal streak of homophobia running through the broader gaming audience, but I think it's a very shallow streak and the vast majority of people just don't care and many are even supportive. Call me an optimist if you prefer but I consider myself among that number.

Modifié par Athayniel, 23 octobre 2011 - 11:55 .

[jlb524]

Montezuma IV wrote...
I'd have to agree. The way society treats women and the fact that men are a lot more sexual.

If I had to guess, I think it's because society puts more pressure on young women to enter into heterosexual relationships....even from a very early age.

Just look at the toys typically made for girls vs. boys.  Girls get baby dolls, kitchen sets, makeup kits, etc...the message being sent is that women must find a man, play wife, and have his babies upon reaching adulthood.

Boys don't really have anything like that.

[jtav]

IsaacShep wrote...

jtav wrote...

And I don't think BW would be willing to pus the envelope like that, not when the player base Vega seems designed to appeal to is stereotyped as making lots of homophobic insults.

Money's on Joker at this point.

I refuse to believe they would make non-squadmate comic-relief character the sole m/m LI in ME3.

The very popular comic relief. And the team seems quite uncomfortable with s/s, m/m in particular. Joker's an easy out, just like Kelly.

[jeweledleah]

vega being gay or bi (either one is good, though gay would just be all that and a bag of chips, and that's despite the fact that I might possible have a perfect femshep for him) - would make me incredibly happy, precisely becasue he breaks so many "ghey" stereotypes.

Joker being any sort of LI would make me happy cause he's awesome and relegating him to comic relief is IMO shortsighted. he's so much more then merely a wisecracking pilot.

[shepskisaac]

jtav wrote...

The very popular comic relief.

And very non-squadmate and secondary character as well... If he's the only m/m LI, it's like saying GayShep is 'lesser' than straight one and can't have one of the major characters as LI and full-fledged romance...

jtav wrote...

And the team seems quite uncomfortable with s/s, m/m in particular. Joker's an easy out, just like Kelly.

Then they should have gay or female devs & writers from BioWare take care of that. I'm sure they have some, at least females. If someone knows he is uncomfortable with some subject, he should have enough respect for the fanbase to pass the pariticular part of the job on someone who won't have such issues and thus won't half-ass the job. Waiting 2 games to get "ok fine, here's your Kelly-like m/m LI and you should be happy 'cause we're too disgusted to spend time working on full m/m romance arc" is just... I really don't believe they would do it, or at least want to believe.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 24 octobre 2011 - 12:10 .

[bleetman]

jlb524 wrote...

If I had to guess, I think it's because society puts more pressure on young women to enter into heterosexual relationships....even from a very early age.

Just look at the toys typically made for girls vs. boys.  Girls get baby dolls, kitchen sets, makeup kits, etc...the message being sent is that women must find a man, play wife, and have his babies upon reaching adulthood.

Boys don't really have anything like that.

Oh, we have our own selection of exciting heteronormative nonsense to wade through, I assure you.

[jeweledleah]

just becasue he's not a squadmate doesn't mean he will have stunted content like Kelly. and who's to say that they won't have non-squadmate female LI as well? for you know both straight and gay sheps?

[jlb524]

bleetman wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

If I had to guess, I think it's because society puts more pressure on young women to enter into heterosexual relationships....even from a very early age.

Just look at the toys typically made for girls vs. boys.  Girls get baby dolls, kitchen sets, makeup kits, etc...the message being sent is that women must find a man, play wife, and have his babies upon reaching adulthood.

Boys don't really have anything like that.

Oh, we have our own selection of exciting heteronormative nonsense to wade through, I assure you.

I agree...it just always seemed to be worse for girls, from my experience.

I meant there are no toys that gear men to be husbands/fathers, from what I know.

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...

just becasue he's not a squadmate doesn't mean he will have stunted content like Kelly.

But he won't be as big as the squadmates either. Squadmates are with Shep the most, have the most dialouges and every fan of any LI (including you) expects & hopes for heartbreaking scenes on the battlefield and during missions. You really think that's gonna happen with Joker? Not to mention, 2 previous games established that squaddies = main LIs. DOn't blame me that's how I want m/m LI to be, equal to what you got.

jeweledleah wrote...

and who's to say that they won't have non-squadmate female LI as well? for you know both straight and gay sheps?

The difference is that she will never be the only LI for straight sheps. They already have 9 full LIs to pick & chose from.

[bas_kon]

IsaacShep wrote...

That is still early. In my example, I was talking about people in their mid-late 20s/30s, or even later. And then again, you admit yourself eventually you do know you were always attracted to men.

I see your point , but if I hadn't got drunk that night I wouldn't have known it 'till later on, maybe never, can't say.

As for ME3 m/m, i'm starting to think the sex scene will be shepard kissing his own image in the mirror of the toilet and cossing his arms to hold himself... since every character is so stereotypically straight that even s/s suporters won't count with them.

Also, if there's any actual m/m romance, I would like him developing feelings for shepard AND being atracted to him physically. I hate when the s/s LI's (male or female) say sex doen't matter to me because I fell for the inside (ala Anders)... that's sad for my PC... and for bisexuality in general, plus nobody buys that...

[FoxHound109]

jtav wrote...

And I don't think BW would be willing to pus the envelope like that, not when the player base Vega seems designed to appeal to is stereotyped as making lots of homophobic insults.

Money's on Joker at this point.

Not sure if I agree with this. The people Vega "seems designed to appeal to" isn't really the same as people that Vega actually appeals to. Check this thread. Most people in this thread seem okay with the idea of Vega being gay or bi.

[flemm]

IsaacShep wrote...
But he won't be as big as the squadmates either. Squadmates are with Shep the most, have the most dialouges and every fan of any LI (including you) expects & hopes for heartbreaking scenes on the battlefield and during missions. You really think that's gonna happen with Joker? Not to mention, 2 previous games established that squaddies = main LIs. DOn't blame me that's how I want m/m LI to be, equal to what you got.

Not saying that Joker is likely to be the only s/s romance for male Sheps, but I actually think NPCs on the Normandy could easily have romances that are as involved as the squad member romances. They're around all the time (more even than some squad members, who will be recruited over the course of the game), and they're pretty much guaranteed to be there for the big missions at the end of the game.

I think important Normandy NPCs might play a bigger role than in previous games, because the squad will be smaller, and possibly less stable.

Modifié par flemm, 24 octobre 2011 - 12:34 .

[RedHotElite]

*delurks*

Hey, this is my first post here on BSN and I just wanted to drop by and say that I fully support s/s in ME3.

My canon M!Shep would enjoy some Kaidan lovin'.

[shepskisaac]

KevinHawke wrote...

*delurks*

Hey, this is my first post here on BSN and I just wanted to drop by and say that I fully support s/s in ME3.

My canon M!Shep would enjoy some Kaidan lovin'.

HI! Please join our s/s Kaidan support group! (link in my sig)!

[Dhiro]

IsaacShep wrote...

jtav wrote...

And I don't think BW would be willing to pus the envelope like that, not when the player base Vega seems designed to appeal to is stereotyped as making lots of homophobic insults.

Money's on Joker at this point.

I refuse to believe they would make non-squadmate comic-relief character the sole m/m LI in ME3.

Who is also a very well loved character with a loyal fanbase, thank you very much. Considering that most if not all romantic interation we have happens in the Normandy, I don't see why being a squadmate is so important.

[shepskisaac]

Dhiro wrote...

Who is also a very well loved character with a loyal fanbase, thank you very much. Considering that most if not all romantic interation we have happens in the Normandy, I don't see why being a squadmate is so important.

Already written it, but here it is again:
a) Most expect lots of LI stuff on the mission/battlefield/deep in the action considering it's the finale. Joker may appear in one scene or two, but he obviously can't & won't be as much with Shep as the other squadmates. Taking your LI on all missions is also part of the appeal of 'full' romances
Previous games showed that squadmates = full LIs. If we're gonna get only non-squaddie as m/m LI, to me it would feel like they say to us "you don't deserve squaddie LI"

Sorry, that's how it feels to me based on how BioWare set the LI mechanics in previous two games.

[Kaiser Shepard]

jlb524 wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...
I'd have to agree. The way society treats women and the fact that men are a lot more sexual.

If I had to guess, I think it's because society puts more pressure on young women to enter into heterosexual relationships....even from a very early age.

Just look at the toys typically made for girls vs. boys.  Girls get baby dolls, kitchen sets, makeup kits, etc...the message being sent is that women must find a man, play wife, and have his babies upon reaching adulthood.

Boys don't really have anything like that.

Or maybe most girls just prefer playing with stuff like that. Not everything is a conspiracy.

Also, I had a kitchen set, what does that make me?

[Dhiro]

IsaacShep wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Who is also a very well loved character with a loyal fanbase, thank you very much. Considering that most if not all romantic interation we have happens in the Normandy, I don't see why being a squadmate is so important.

Already written it, but here it is again:
a) Most expect lots of LI stuff on the mission/battlefield/deep in the action considering it's the finale. Joker may appear in one scene or two, but he obviously can't & won't be as much with Shep as the other squadmates. Taking your LI on all missions is also part of the appeal of 'full' romances
Previous games showed that squadmates = full LIs. If we're gonna get only non-squaddie as m/m LI, to me it would feel like they say to us "you don't deserve squaddie LI"

Sorry, that's how it feels to me based on how BioWare set the LI mechanics in previous two games.

a) I'm sure you find the occasional generic one-liner pretty romantic, but I can't say I care that much.

That's pretty much a matter of opinion. If the romance is well-written and well-executed I have no problem with Joker not being a squadmate.

All real interactions are on the ship. Tali's loyalty mission was very emotional, but the only part where you can express your romantic feelings for her is when you are in the ship: the same for all the other squadmates. I really don't see a problem here.

[upsettingshorts]

Is a fabricated reason based on a persecution complex that may or may not be justified in this case.

If they believe they've done a great and fulfilling job with a non-squadmate LI, having done so will have nothing to do with any perceived slights of you or anyone else on their part, and instead reflect what they believe is the best and most rewarding opportunity for romance.

It really isn't BioWare's responsibility to allow you to hook up with whoever you want, and if it turns out - for example, let's say - that Joker is the M/M option in Mass Effect 3, they will have betrayed nothing by leaving say, Kaidan, straight.

So while it's perfectly fine to root for your preferences and indeed I hope the VS is S/S as well, stuff like inferring that BioWare is saying things such as "you don't deserve a squaddie LI" is pushing to boundaries of what is reasonable, and if you genuinely think you would feel that way if BioWare made such a decision - perhaps you need to step outside of your own perspective for a while and think about how little sense that makes.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 24 octobre 2011 - 01:13 .

[slimgrin]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Also, I had a kitchen set, what does that make me?

Gay as all hell.

Really, I enjoy the romances, but it appears I don't take them near as seriously as some do. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 24 octobre 2011 - 01:11 .