25715 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Or maybe most girls just prefer playing with stuff like that. Not everything is a conspiracy.

There is a little unintentional cultural indoctrination, though.  When was the last time you saw a girl in a Hot Wheels commercial?  Or a boy for Littlest Pet Shop?

The advertising media never really tries to convince anyone of anything other than "buy our stuff."  To do that, it tries to appeal to certain aspects of culture.  In an environment saturated with advertising, we begin to see these sales pitches as examples of normalcy, and whether intentionally or unconsciously, we attempt to adhere to them.  The media sees this behavior become more prevalent, and thus tries to appeal to it even more.  It's a positive feedback loop.

Also, I had a kitchen set, what does that make me?

A kid with a kitchen set.

Me?  I played with Pokémon/Digimon and acted out scenes from Star Wars with My Little Ponies.  Applejack was always Chewie.

[JeffZero]

Nova Blaster!

Anyway, gays in space. (Fine, I just wanted an excuse to latch onto the Digimon comment.)

[Quething]

I'm with Dhiro. Joker is far more important and integral to Shep and the franchise at this point than Vega could ever be. He's been there since the beginning, he's the whole reason you died in 2, he's got more conversation, interaction, and opinions to voice in ME2 than Garrus and Tali combined,* he's a major player in every major story event in 2 and he's the only character other than Shep you've ever actually played. If Shep dies he's even the one who talks to TIM in your place.

He and Kaidan are the two most respectful and equal-to-the-het-players m/m romances we could possibly get.

* Ignoring romance content. But of course if you count their romance content you'd have to account for the fact that a romanceable Joker would have bonus romance convos too.

[Kaiser Shepard]

slimgrin wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Also, I had a kitchen set, what does that make me?

Gay as all hell.

I reject this statement, as I also occasionally dressed up in women's clothes and had a Ken doll.

Oh wait...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Or maybe most girls just prefer playing with stuff like that. Not everything is a conspiracy.

There is a little unintentional cultural indoctrination, though.  When was the last time you saw a girl in a Hot Wheels commercial?  Or a boy for Littlest Pet Shop?

The advertising media never really tries to convince anyone of anything other than "buy our stuff."  To do that, it tries to appeal to certain aspects of culture.  In an environment saturated with advertising, we begin to see these sales pitches as examples of normalcy, and whether intentionally or unconsciously, we attempt to adhere to them.  The media sees this behavior become more prevalent, and thus tries to appeal to it even more.  It's a positive feedback loop.

Like you said, they're marketed to a certain demographic for a reason, so at most they would simply be strengthening the already existing stereotypes. It's up to the kid in question whether or not they actually buy (figuratively) what they're seeing.

If anything, the "role" most kids take upon themselves are based upon that of their parent of the same gender, which is where the initial interest in certain toys probably comes from.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 24 octobre 2011 - 01:36 .

[JeffZero]

My grandmother raised me singlehandedly. Thankfully she was into sci-fi. I shudder to think of myself as an accomplished baker if it meant not being able to recite every episode of DS9 in proper order!

Oh my god, I think I can actually do that, too. Like, I typed that as an exaggeration, but...

[Hathur]

JeffZero wrote...

My grandmother raised me singlehandedly. Thankfully she was into sci-fi. I shudder to think of myself as an accomplished baker if it meant not being able to recite every episode of DS9 in proper order!

Oh my god, I think I can actually do that, too. Like, I typed that as an exaggeration, but...

*fistbump for also being raised by a single parent / guardian who is a geek *  

Modifié par Hathur, 24 octobre 2011 - 01:45 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Like you said, they're marketed to a certain demographic for a reason, so at most they would simply be strengthening the already existing stereotypes. It's up to the kid in question whether or not they actually buy (figuratively) what they're seeing.

If anything, the "role" most kids take upon themselves are based upon that of their parent of the same gender, which is where the initial interest in certain toys probably comes from.

That's the problem, though: by marketing to stereotypes, they are strengthening those stereotypes.  When the stereotypes are strengthened, they market to them more.  It inhibits social progress and makes it harder for people to acceptably deviate from cultural norms.

This focuses on women in advertising, but it's still pretty enlightening.  Check it out.

Parents aren't in complete control of their kids' lives, and they aren't in control of themselves, either.  The media affects adults just as much as it affects kids, and the parent cannot control everything a kid sees or hears.

[Zkyire]

jlb524 wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...
I'd have to agree. The way society treats women and the fact that men are a lot more sexual.

If I had to guess, I think it's because society puts more pressure on young women to enter into heterosexual relationships....even from a very early age.

Just look at the toys typically made for girls vs. boys.  Girls get baby dolls, kitchen sets, makeup kits, etc...the message being sent is that women must find a man, play wife, and have his babies upon reaching adulthood.

Boys don't really have anything like that.

No, boys get toy soldiers, toy diggers and toy building equipment.

Indoctrinating them into believing they have to do certain types of jobs.

Don't act like this is only happening to females.

Both males and females are targetted from birth to believe certain things.

[Quething]

Were we talking about favorite posters earlier? Cheez is fast becoming one of mine.

@JeffZero: I'm impressed. I can't even do that with TNG or Babylon 5.

[JeffZero]

*fistbumps Hathur*

@Quething: I'm actually working on it with TNG and Babylon 5. The first two seasons of TNG and first season of Babylon 5 are my weak points. I don't find those years nearly as engrossing as what came afterward so I tend to uhh... conveniently forget certain episodes. XD

[JeffZero]

I pretty much agree with everything being said regarding societal indoctrination, by the way. It's not like previous eras weren't even worse about it, granted, but even still the onus is on those who live and breathe in today's world to attempt to correct the problems of mankind so that our children and our children's children can live and breathe in a better place.

I have all sorts of half-baked ideas on how to fix the present. I'm not quite drunk enough to go on any tangents right now though. Ask again later...

[jeweledleah]

in former soviet union they did both. as in they taught traditional feminine/masculine roles, but they also had boys and girls play together, with the same toys, drawing the same things etc. when I was a kid, I used to play war with my kindergarten mates right alongside playing house.

the best way to fix current predicament IMO is show a boy and a girl playing together. with both barbies and cars, toy soldiers and my little ponies. /shrug.

[JeffZero]

jeweledleah wrote...

in former soviet union they did both. as in they taught traditional feminine/masculine roles, but they also had boys and girls play together, with the same toys, drawing the same things etc. when I was a kid, I used to play war with my kindergarten mates right alongside playing house.

the best way to fix current predicament IMO is show a boy and a girl playing together. with both barbies and cars, toy soldiers and my little ponies. /shrug.

An enlightening post, leah. I had no idea the Soviets did such a thing. Very interesting.

I agree with you, too.

[Ravensword]

jeweledleah wrote...

in former soviet union they did both. as in they taught traditional feminine/masculine roles, but they also had boys and girls play together, with the same toys, drawing the same things etc. when I was a kid, I used to play war with my kindergarten mates right alongside playing house.

the best way to fix current predicament IMO is show a boy and a girl playing together. with both barbies and cars, toy soldiers and my little ponies. /shrug.

You were born in the USSR?

[flemm]

JeffZero wrote...

My grandmother raised me singlehandedly. Thankfully she was into sci-fi. I shudder to think of myself as an accomplished baker if it meant not being able to recite every episode of DS9 in proper order!

Oh my god, I think I can actually do that, too. Like, I typed that as an exaggeration, but...

LoL. Nice to see another Niner on the boards. I think I could probably do that as well  

Modifié par flemm, 24 octobre 2011 - 02:14 .

[JeffZero]

Oh yes, flemm, you even know the official terminology! Yay, greetings, fellow Niner.

I actually post on Trek BBS sometimes too. Not as often lately since BSN's been eating up my time. If you ever swing that-a-ways, I'm Jeff O'Connor there.

[flemm]

JeffZero wrote...

Oh yes, flemm, you even know the official terminology! Yay, greetings, fellow Niner.

I actually post on Trek BBS sometimes too. Not as often lately since BSN's been eating up my time. If you ever swing that-a-ways, I'm Jeff O'Connor there.

LoL. I probably should have realized. I'm flemm over there as well. I believe I was commenting in your review thread at one point before I took a hiatus from those forums.

Edit: Sorry for the off-topic chatter, ladies and gentlemen, I will cease and desist.

Modifié par flemm, 24 octobre 2011 - 02:19 .

[AdmiralCheez]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

No, boys get toy soldiers, toy diggers and toy building equipment.

Indoctrinating them into believing they have to do certain types of jobs.

Don't act like this is only happening to females.

Both males and females are targetted from birth to believe certain things.

Yeah, and it sucks for both groups.

As much as the brony culture creeps me out, there may be something the media can learn from it.

[jeweledleah]

Ravensword wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

in former soviet union they did both. as in they taught traditional feminine/masculine roles, but they also had boys and girls play together, with the same toys, drawing the same things etc. when I was a kid, I used to play war with my kindergarten mates right alongside playing house.

the best way to fix current predicament IMO is show a boy and a girl playing together. with both barbies and cars, toy soldiers and my little ponies. /shrug.

You were born in the USSR?

born and raised.  there were good parts and bad parts to it.  it wasn't exactly... friendly if you were anything other then straight... on the other hand.. that quote about no sex in soviet union was kinda valid that said - in terms of gender roles that country could give USA lessons and then some.  both boys and girls were encouraged to pick whatever appealed to them.  there was no such thing as "dudu, you are so gay for wanting to dance/paint/etc"  or "wow, what are you lesbo?  with your short hair and your love for cars and constructor kits" 

sex education was nonexistant.  but so was shoehorning people into gender roles.  it was mostly gentle nudging and even then, mostly when it came to some of the household chores. so my parents got me dolls right alongside chemistry sets and toy soldiers.

edited.  brony culture is not so bad   except for that "cupcakes"  fanfictions... there isn't enough bleach in a world....

Modifié par jeweledleah, 24 octobre 2011 - 02:19 .

[JeffZero]

flemm wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Oh yes, flemm, you even know the official terminology! Yay, greetings, fellow Niner.

I actually post on Trek BBS sometimes too. Not as often lately since BSN's been eating up my time. If you ever swing that-a-ways, I'm Jeff O'Connor there.

LoL. I probably should have realized. I'm flemm over there as well. I believe I was commenting in your review thread at one point before I took a hiatus from those forums.

Edit: Sorry for the off-topic chatter, ladies and gentlemen, I will cease and desist.

OH HECK! I knew your name looked familiar. XD Well then. I see we share similarly amazing tastes all-around.

Anyway, yeah, I'll stop too. flemm, we should discuss DS9 sometime though.

Ahem. Gays in space! (God, I love that banner.)

[JeffZero]

Thanks again for the Soviet insight, leah. I'm a big sucker for cultural information. I've spent countless hours researching every country I can possibly research but there's no replacement for getting first-hand accounts.

[Ravensword]

jeweledleah wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

in former soviet union they did both. as in they taught traditional feminine/masculine roles, but they also had boys and girls play together, with the same toys, drawing the same things etc. when I was a kid, I used to play war with my kindergarten mates right alongside playing house.

the best way to fix current predicament IMO is show a boy and a girl playing together. with both barbies and cars, toy soldiers and my little ponies. /shrug.

You were born in the USSR?

born and raised.  there were good parts and bad parts to it.  it wasn't exactly... friendly if you were anything other then straight... on the other hand.. that quote about no sex in soviet union was kinda valid that said - in terms of gender roles that country could give USA lessons and then some.  both boys and girls were encouraged to pick whatever appealed to them.  there was no such thing as "dudu, you are so gay for wanting to dance/paint/etc"  or "wow, what are you lesbo?  with your short hair and your love for cars and constructor kits" 

sex education was nonexistant.  but so was shoehorning people into gender roles.  it was mostly gentle nudging and even then, mostly when it came to some of the household chores. so my parents got me dolls right alongside chemistry sets and toy soldiers.

edited.  brony culture is not so bad   except for that "cupcakes"  fanfictions... there isn't enough bleach in a world....

Well, know that's interesting. That's one positive thing about the Cold War if nothing else. The thing is that when it comes to making kids toys, it's all about male and female demographics. Corporations will continue to cater to stereotypical gender roles b/c it's the way to effectively do business. There's no profit in trying to change these roles. Corporations don't care about thiese things. Maybe that's why the Soviets didn't have to worry about gender roles being forced upon people based on their gender b/c of communism. What's Russia like now?

Modifié par Ravensword, 24 octobre 2011 - 02:28 .

[Maugrim]

Well Deep Space Nine was the gayest of all the Star Treks (Julian and Garak, Julian and Miles, all Daxes, Intendant Kira, crossdressing Ferengi....etc!) My plan is to own all the episodes of Star Trek but currently my only complete collection is Deep Space Nine So umm relating to Mass Effect.... Nana Visitor, Nicole DeBoer or Terry Farrell for VA for the new female S/S LI?!

[flemm]

makenzieshepard wrote...
 Nana Visitor, Nicole DeBoer or Terry Farrell for VA for the new female S/S LI?!

Nana would get my vote