25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Duskeyboy]

Carfax wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

Not that familiar apparently.   I'd hardly pass myself off as an expert like we've seen you repeatedly try and even I know that there were always issues with his methodology but you  also know what? Once they were corrected for there was NO significant difference in the results.  Last paragraph of that section.  Sorry for all basic uses Kinsey findings work just fine.

Right, so the same Kinsey Institute responsible for the original junk Science research, attempted to a "correction" of all the statistical anomalies and came up with more or less the same figures

Well you can believe whatever you want of course.. Since you're gay yourself, I suppose Alfred Kinsey's fairy tale research is more palatable to you than the truth..

From more reliable research that I've read, it appears that gays and bisexuals comprise approximately 4% of the population, and not 10% like in Kinsey's research.  This 4% figure has manifested itself in numerous statistical studies, including even exit political polls, and similar studies in other nations.

Something else, the percentage of those that are exclusively homosexual, is typically 1% or less.  Many gays apparently have bisexual leanings, just moreso towards the same sex than opposite sex.

There was once a time in my life when I researched homosexuality quite thoroughly, since I was raised in a very anti-homosexual environment, and I wanted to understand why it exists..  So I'm certain I've read far more on this subject than yourself, and most others on this forum.

Believe whatever you want to though.. 

Okay, I'm all game for letting fr4eedom of speech run it's course, hell im a marine it's what i fight for, but you may be taking it a little to far, for i know that most statistics having to do with personal matters is bull**** because theres no way someone went around the u.s asking everyone there sexual prference, and you also forget the variables, like closetes people and liars and much much more, so if you want to under stand why it exist go study some biology, 'cause every one is born a certain way weither it's the "normal" way or the"different" way.

[JeffZero]

Abispa wrote...

Quething wrote...

BSG lost me hard by the time (SPOILER!) Starbuck came back from the dead or whatever. Webisode-only Gayta was just salt in the wound. But Babylon 5. Now there was a show. I say to you, FTL thread, knowing you will understand: "I think I... loved Talia" was a revelation for tiny Quething.

I thought the whole "Angel of Death" thing pretty much fit into the series as it played out, though I admit I spent weeks wondering where the hell they were going with it.

I wish Tali didn't leave B5 before her romance with Ivanova really got going, but given the fact that the producers couldn't promise her the show would still be around week to week it was understandable. I remember that their lesbian romance came out around the same time as the "lesbian" Trill episode of DS9 and quite a few arguments started in sci-fi conventions on which series handled the subject better.

Nothing says irony more than a two guys dressed like a Vulcan and a Klingon arguing before a panel about whether or not gay characters and black people playing humaniod aliens push believability to the breaking point.

An opportunity to bring this more on-topic! Yes!

The Ivanova-and-Talia thing was great. I was rewatching Babylon 5 several months back and my girlfriend, ever the staunch defender of equal rights, peered over my shoulder a few times during the episode with Talia's big reveal in the second season. A couple of times she went "Ivanova so clearly has the hots for her" and since I hadn't seen the series in a very, very long time (I was like... 12 the last time I watched it) I forgot all about that and kept brushing it off.

"Nah, but that'd be great. I just don't see it though."

And then it became so obvious that I couldn't deny it and it was like a big pillar of light washed over me. "Oh thank you so much, JMS, for doing this. Outstanding."

Just so happened that the girlfriend was peering over again when Ivanova's "I think... I loved Talia" happened. And she was like "hell yes. I need to watch this show sometime."

Also, you totally called her Tali. XD

[JeffZero]

Whew, I'm going to refrain from commenting too heavily on the BSG back-and-forth because every time I submit a post on this browser there's a ~25% chance it screws up and I get all freaked-out whenever I'm about to enter a big one. Which... I would no doubt wind up doing if I got started on BSG.

Suffice it to say, though, I see both points. I loved the show from start to finish... except I didn't. I hated it too. It's very much love-hate, you see. Its highs were terrific. But I got so tired of the love triangle in the third season, so tired of some of the network's demanded episodic bits in the second and third seasons (since they invariably sucked by comparison) and I got so tired of being so tired of tidbits of the melodrama by endgame.

But I loved it.

But I hated it.

But I also loved it, you see.

[Topaz Bee]

Hey, guys! I hope you don't mind a new face jumping into the pile. I've been lurking in this thread like a creepy thing(*points at avatar* Like that!), but never posted anything because I never have anything interesting or thought-provoking to say. But! When I noticed B5 and the Ivanova/Talia thing come up, I took it as a sign and just had to pop in!

As a kid, I was obsessed with B5. One of my first childhood crushes was Susan Ivanova. When she admitted to [maybe] being in love with Talia, it floored me. I was so happy(even though Talia was dead at that time, and couldn't return the feeling ), because it gave my little mind had something to cling to while my mother demeaned and made fun of me for 'liking' other females. Even if it's only fiction, being acknowledged TV(or in books, or comics, or video games, or etc.) really can help!
Oh, and here in writing is my support for the VS as a s/s LI. See, I can even be on-topic too!

[JeffZero]

Topaz Bee wrote...

Hey, guys! I hope you don't mind a new face jumping into the pile. I've been lurking in this thread like a creepy thing(*points at avatar* Like that!), but never posted anything because I never have anything interesting or thought-provoking to say. But! When I noticed B5 and the Ivanova/Talia thing come up, I took it as a sign and just had to pop in!

I'm confident that I speak for everyone here when I say that we're glad to have you.

As a kid, I was obsessed with B5. One of my first childhood crushes was Susan Ivanova. When she admitted to [maybe] being in love with Talia, it floored me. I was so happy(even though Talia was dead at that time, and couldn't return the feeling ), because it gave my little mind had something to cling to while my mother demeaned and made fun of me for 'liking' other females. Even if it's only fiction, being acknowledged TV(or in books, or comics, or video games, or etc.) really can help!
Oh, and here in writing is my support for the VS as a s/s LI. See, I can even be on-topic too!

Heh, sounds like it really helped you out back then. That's terrific. More often than not, well-written fiction can help people through tough times. Childhood and adolescence and realizing you aren't the societal "norm" in any way can be very rough. Although I'm a straight guy, I still know this from experience because only having one parent and literally not knowing if my father was even alive... and knowing my mom was off in a bar somewhere... yeah, it was rough too.

I ended up attaching myself in a similar way to characters who were estranged from their parents -- there were some in B5 and DS9 for starters.

And as someone who would love to see Ash and Kaidan given roles as S/S LI, I echo your sentiments. Here's hoping!

[Quething]

JeffZero wrote...

The Ivanova-and-Talia thing was great. I was rewatching Babylon 5 several months back and my girlfriend, ever the staunch defender of equal rights, peered over my shoulder a few times during the episode with Talia's big reveal in the second season. A couple of times she went "Ivanova so clearly has the hots for her" and since I hadn't seen the series in a very, very long time (I was like... 12 the last time I watched it) I forgot all about that and kept brushing it off.

"Nah, but that'd be great. I just don't see it though."

And then it became so obvious that I couldn't deny it and it was like a big pillar of light washed over me. "Oh thank you so much, JMS, for doing this. Outstanding."

Just so happened that the girlfriend was peering over again when Ivanova's "I think... I loved Talia" happened. And she was like "hell yes. I need to watch this show sometime."

I was doing a rewatch with some of my friends for a while on B5, most of whom had never seen it before. And it struck me that Talia's introduction - if you go through that episode and you look at everybody's plotline, everyone else in the ep has a "plot" plotline that moves their characterization along or tells you something about the setting or advances the season arc. They're all action-y, doing-stuff plots.

And Talia's entire first episode is pure, 100%, introduce-the-love-interest. That's all she does. If Ivanova were a dude there would not be a single person in the audience who would not look at that ep and go "Ok, so Talia's his love interest."

I was amused by the fact that none of my (mostly queer, mostly with deeply-embedded slash goggles) friends noticed. I'm not sure I would have either if I hadn't known what was coming.

Oh and you were talking earlier about Kate Mulgrew, I'm just going to take a moment to mention that I am such a ridiculous Kate Mulgrew fangirl I can't even tell you. Picard is still my Trek captain, but Mulgrew as an actress - man, you should have seen me the first time I played Dragon Age. First this chick shows up and holy **** that's Claudia Black and then she takes me back to her mom and holy **** that's Kate Mulgrew and there aren't two better characters in DA:O than Flemeth and Morrigan to begin with... There might have been squeeing. I am not ashamed.

... can we get Mulgrew to voice Chakwas' hitherto unmentioned ex-girlfriend? Because I would break my Chakwas/Zaeed ship for that in a hot minute. HEY THERE'S AN ON-TOPIC TOPIC! Something ME needs just as badly as Shep-centric s/s is more ambient s/s. I've just voted Chakwas for badass elder lesbian; who else would you guys want to see in terms of NPC hookups?

Modifié par Quething, 24 octobre 2011 - 06:06 .

[Carfax]

Duskeyboy wrote...

Okay, I'm all game for letting fr4eedom of speech run it's course, hell im a marine it's what i fight for, but you may be taking it a little to far, for i know that most statistics having to do with personal matters is bull**** because theres no way someone went around the u.s asking everyone there sexual prference, and you also forget the variables, like closetes people and liars and much much more, so if you want to under stand why it exist go study some biology, 'cause every one is born a certain way weither it's the "normal" way or the"different" way.

You can't know the exact number of gays of course, but estimates are useful and depending on the quality of the statistics, fairly reliable and repeatable..  And I already know why homosexuality exists.....which is why I neither hate or dislike homosexuals, despite growing up in an anti-gay environment.

And thank you for your service btw

Modifié par Carfax, 24 octobre 2011 - 06:12 .

[Maugrim]

Quething wrote...

... can we get Mulgrew to voice Chakwas' hitherto unmentioned ex-girlfriend? Because I would break my Chakwas/Zaeed ship for that in a hot minute. HEY THERE'S AN ON-TOPIC TOPIC! Something ME needs just as badly as Shep-centric s/s is more ambient s/s. I've just voted Chakwas for badass elder lesbian; who else would you guys want to see in terms of NPC hookups?

Carolyn Seymour and Kate Mulgrew as the VA for a sexy badass older lesbian couple?! <3:wizard:  My brain just overloaded from the awesome, I have nothing useful to contribute till I can extinguish the fire and reboot!

[JeffZero]

Quething wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

The Ivanova-and-Talia thing was great. I was rewatching Babylon 5 several months back and my girlfriend, ever the staunch defender of equal rights, peered over my shoulder a few times during the episode with Talia's big reveal in the second season. A couple of times she went "Ivanova so clearly has the hots for her" and since I hadn't seen the series in a very, very long time (I was like... 12 the last time I watched it) I forgot all about that and kept brushing it off.

"Nah, but that'd be great. I just don't see it though."

And then it became so obvious that I couldn't deny it and it was like a big pillar of light washed over me. "Oh thank you so much, JMS, for doing this. Outstanding."

Just so happened that the girlfriend was peering over again when Ivanova's "I think... I loved Talia" happened. And she was like "hell yes. I need to watch this show sometime."

I was doing a rewatch with some of my friends for a while on B5, most of whom had never seen it before. And it struck me that Talia's introduction - if you go through that episode and you look at everybody's plotline, everyone else in the ep has a "plot" plotline that moves their characterization along or tells you something about the setting or advances the season arc. They're all action-y, doing-stuff plots.

And Talia's entire first episode is pure, 100%, introduce-the-love-interest. That's all she does. If Ivanova were a dude there would not be a single person in the audience who would not look at that ep and go "Ok, so Talia's his love interest."

I was amused by the fact that none of my (mostly queer, mostly with deeply-embedded slash goggles) friends noticed. I'm not sure I would have either if I hadn't known what was coming.

Oh and you were talking earlier about Kate Mulgrew, I'm just going to take a moment to mention that I am such a ridiculous Kate Mulgrew fangirl I can't even tell you. Picard is still my Trek captain, but Mulgrew as an actress - man, you should have seen me the first time I played Dragon Age. First this chick shows up and holy **** that's Claudia Black and then she takes me back to her mom and holy **** that's Kate Mulgrew and there aren't two better characters in DA:O than Flemeth and Morrigan to begin with... There might have been squeeing. I am not ashamed.

... can we get Mulgrew to voice Chakwas' hitherto unmentioned ex-girlfriend? Because I would break my Chakwas/Zaeed ship for that in a hot minute. HEY THERE'S AN ON-TOPIC TOPIC! Something ME needs just as badly as Shep-centric s/s is more ambient s/s. I've just voted Chakwas for badass elder lesbian; who else would you guys want to see in terms of NPC hookups?

Hold on, hold on, hold on. I still haven't played Dragon Age (yeah, I know, I know, bear with me... I promise I will soon) and I knew Claudia Black was Morrigan (see the avatar? Yeah, huge Farscape fan here, worked on the campaign and everything) but I had no idea Kate Mulgrew was Morrigan's mom. OMG. Hold the press. That is amazing. Holy oisdhgoasihgsaoighasoa.

Ahem. OK. I'm better now. Back to the beginning here. /breathes

You're totally right about Talia's introductory episode. I need to go back and rewatch that again too. Heck. Totally right. Wonderful pairing, that. Especially for the TV era.

Yeah, Mulgrew is one hell of a fine actress. I watched Shatner's "The Captains" documentary a couple of months back when it originally aired and I loved seeing Stewart and Brooks (and Bakula too, come to think of it) but I think more than Stewart's philosophical meanderings, more than Brooks' obviously-trolling-Shatner-and-loving-it, more than Bakula's downt-to-earthisms, what I enjoyed most was Mulgrew's absolutely lovely and unapologetically realistic manner. She was a real system-seller.

I've rewatched the documentary a couple of times now. I fast-forward through Shatner's silliness here and there, heheh, but I'll never fast-forward through Kate. Delightful woman.

A friend of mine has done some gigs as an extra and technical assistant in... LA, I believe. She got to meet Kate Mulgrew once at the studio. Now, this friend of mine is a huge Kate fan too, right? So she steps outside for a breath of fresh air and bam, there she is, Kate Mulgrew, smoking a quick cigarette. My friend is freaking out but she's determined to keep her composure. Kate notices pretty quickly and tempers the mood with some straight-up chit-chat.

As my friend has told me, before long they were speaking to eachother like long-losts. Had a great time of it. My friend was a big Kate fan before that day. After that day she was the biggest.

I'd love to have Mulgrew back with BioWare for ME3. Hell, apparently I didn't even know she'd done work for BioWare until a few moments ago. Some fan, hmph!

Chakwas/Zaeed, though. That's an awesome ship.

[Carfax]

Montezuma IV wrote...

I may not have statistics...but anyone with a brain knows that 1% is obviously not accurate.

If you had read my post more carefully, you would have seen that the 1% (or less than 1% in fact) figure was for exclusive homosexuals, that is homosexuals that have never had any sexual contact with anyone of the opposite sex.

4% is the figure given for self proclaimed homosexuals/bisexuals.  Of course, the figure would be higher if you include people that have participated in some sort of same sex activity, but don't identify as gay/lesbian/bisexual.  If you add the latter, then it would probably be 10% I'd wager.

[JeffZero]

makenzieshepard wrote...

Quething wrote...

... can we get Mulgrew to voice Chakwas' hitherto unmentioned ex-girlfriend? Because I would break my Chakwas/Zaeed ship for that in a hot minute. HEY THERE'S AN ON-TOPIC TOPIC! Something ME needs just as badly as Shep-centric s/s is more ambient s/s. I've just voted Chakwas for badass elder lesbian; who else would you guys want to see in terms of NPC hookups?

Carolyn Seymour and Kate Mulgrew as the VA for a sexy badass older lesbian couple?! <3:wizard:  My brain just overloaded from the awesome, I have nothing useful to contribute till I can extinguish the fire and reboot!

I remember when I recently discovered that Carolyn Seymour played a particularly intriguing Romulan in the TNG episode where Troi was undercover on a Romulan vessel. My brain overloaded then too.

I'd post a link to a pic of Chakwas in Romulan dress-up but, well, PS3 browser. It'd be painful. Suffice it to say, wow. Amazing.

[JeffZero]

Alright ladies and gents, I'd love to stay and play some more but my PS3's starting to get a bit louder than usual and I think that's a pretty strong indication that it's feeling a bit overtaxed over there. I'd rather not have to spring for a new one anytime soon so I'm going to hop off the net and check back tomorrow.

[Maugrim]

JeffZero wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

Quething wrote...

... can we get Mulgrew to voice Chakwas' hitherto unmentioned ex-girlfriend? Because I would break my Chakwas/Zaeed ship for that in a hot minute. HEY THERE'S AN ON-TOPIC TOPIC! Something ME needs just as badly as Shep-centric s/s is more ambient s/s. I've just voted Chakwas for badass elder lesbian; who else would you guys want to see in terms of NPC hookups?

Carolyn Seymour and Kate Mulgrew as the VA for a sexy badass older lesbian couple?! <3:wizard:  My brain just overloaded from the awesome, I have nothing useful to contribute till I can extinguish the fire and reboot!

I remember when I recently discovered that Carolyn Seymour played a particularly intriguing Romulan in the TNG episode where Troi was undercover on a Romulan vessel. My brain overloaded then too.

I'd post a link to a pic of Chakwas in Romulan dress-up but, well, PS3 browser. It'd be painful. Suffice it to say, wow. Amazing.

Guess what I was just looking up? 



Actually she played two romulans Taris and Toreth being the one you recall plus the pro-contact administrator in the TNG episode 'First Contact".  Apparently she was in two Voyager episodes playing a hologram , but I don't remember that much, just bit roles it seems.

Ahem sorry no one in my social group likes Star Trek so I go a bit overboard when I meet my fellow peeps!   But to bring it back around to Mass Effect a bit again I credit Star Trek with keeping me sane as I was struggling with my identity and coming out to people.  The first person I officially came out too was a friend in a PBeM Star Trek RPG.  My characters ended up being bisexual at that was a safe way for me to explore.  I could definately see Mass Effect playing a similar role for some young kid/teen which wouldn't be the purpose of putting s/s romances in but it's a nice bonus.

[ElitePinecone]

Interesting discussion over the last few pages.

One thing about Vega/Joker, and I know I keep saying this, but: there'll be new characters.

I feel like people are unnecessarily jumping to conclusions about who is or isn't an m/m LI based on no information. Then when Bioware announces another male squadmate - and there'll be more - they'll start going crazy speculating over that person.

My gut feeling is that Vega follows the badass/trumatised space marine archetype; that's not to say he won't subvert convention and be open to both genders, but at this stage we don't even know if he'll be an LI. Joker's relationships have only ever been referenced in comic relief, and I don't think he'll be an LI at all.

Again: there'll be new characters. It's easy to say Vega will be an option when no others have been announced, but I have a feeling somebody else has that particular honour/burden.

[Quething]

makenzieshepard wrote...
Carolyn Seymour and Kate Mulgrew as the VA for a sexy badass older lesbian couple?!

I am just saying. That first convo with her on the SR-1 when she's talking about joining the service so she could treat soldiers with soulful eyes or whatever, she does not mention gender. As a master of the pronoun game, it stood out quite prominently to me the first time I heard it.

@Pinecone: Apparently Seth Green tweeted some Joker fans to tell them that they'd be really happy with some new developments in ME3, or something along those lines. One of those things that could mean anything, of course, but it does seem suggestive of LI content; it's the #1 thing his fans have been asking for, and there aren't a lot of other things that seem plausible that would count as a new development. I mean no one's pushing for a "cure Joker's Vrolik's" or anything (thank God). And we've been told that not every romance will necessarily be a squadmate, and of the people who aren't squadmates, who's more likely to be worth the dev time in terms of interested fans than Joker?

I'm still laying slightly better odds on the VS myself, but I don't think Joker's unlikely.

[Maugrim]

Ash as a Klingon? Yeah I can dig it. The traditional Klingon mating rituals would work really well for her and Shep too I think. Ash can roar, throw heavy objects and claw while Shep reads love poetry and ducks a lot! Actually I could see any LI and Shep imitating Kahless and Lukara, slaying 500 Reapers and then jumping each other like a pair of crazed vorcha, to mix a few fandoms.

[Quething]

That's a pretty nice manip. And #7 on the list of Things That Would Make Main!Shep Jump Instantly Jump Ash, so surprisingly on-topic! XD

[lovgreno]

jeweledleah wrote...

vega being gay or bi (either one is good, though gay would just be all that and a bag of chips, and that's despite the fact that I might possible have a perfect femshep for him) - would make me incredibly happy, precisely becasue he breaks so many "ghey" stereotypes.

Joker being any sort of LI would make me happy cause he's awesome and relegating him to comic relief is IMO shortsighted. he's so much more then merely a wisecracking pilot.

Yeah exactly, though I also think Kaidan is manly enough to be a manly gay, or manly bi for those who prefer that. Aaaand... I know this is terribly shallow and childish of me, but I kind of want to see some people rage over gay Vega. But don't worry, I won't troll, especialy not on this nice thread.

Joker as bi, sure but in that case I want him to be a total smartass about it. There might be some potential comedy gold there.

Off topic: I miss your She Hulk avatar Jeweledleah.

Modifié par lovgreno, 24 octobre 2011 - 09:22 .

[shepskisaac]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

It really isn't BioWare's responsibility to allow you to hook up with whoever you want, and if it turns out - for example, let's say - that Joker is the M/M option in Mass Effect 3, they will have betrayed nothing by leaving say, Kaidan, straight.

So while it's perfectly fine to root for your preferences and indeed I hope the VS is S/S as well, stuff like inferring that BioWare is saying things such as "you don't deserve a squaddie LI" is pushing to boundaries of what is reasonable, and if you genuinely think you would feel that way if BioWare made such a decision - perhaps you need to step outside of your own perspective for a while and think about how little sense that makes.

This is not about Kaidan. Give me Vega, Jacob, Thane, heck even Garrus who I have next to zero interest in. Every straight main LI in the franchise has been a squadmate so far so heck yeah I would feel 'worse' if it turns out the only m/m LI is not a squadmate. It's rather simple.

[who would know]

ElitePinecone wrote...

I feel like people are unnecessarily jumping to conclusions about who is or isn't an m/m LI based on no information. Then when Bioware announces another male squadmate - and there'll be more - they'll start going crazy speculating over that person.

Another human male squadmate? Um, really?

FWIW, my interest in non-human romance is zero. For now I'm operating under the assumption that the new ****** romances will be human.

[ElitePinecone]

who would know wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

I feel like people are unnecessarily jumping to conclusions about who is or isn't an m/m LI based on no information. Then when Bioware announces another male squadmate - and there'll be more - they'll start going crazy speculating over that person.

Another human male squadmate? Um, really?

FWIW, my interest in non-human romance is zero. For now I'm operating under the assumption that the new ****** romances will be human.

I wouldn't necessarily rule anything out. But we know that there'll be more new squadmates, we know that at least one (probably more) characters in ME3 will be available for m/m and f/f, and we know that old characters won't necessarily be an option. Everything Casey has hinted towards says they'll predominantly be new squadmates. 

It could be Vega, sure - I don't get that feeling, but it's just a gut reaction. What we're left with is a range of things: new human squadmate(s), new aliens, LIs that are part of the Normandy but not on the squad, LIs that are scattered around the galaxy, LIs who we meet sporadically through the campaign.... there's a huge variety of things that could happen. 

Don't forget that the squad won't be as permanent as previous games. It's just as likely we'll be slotting in and out squadmembers throughout the campaign; having one more human male isn't inconceivable. 

Or, y'know, the new m/m LI could be an alien. A drell, say. 

[who would know]

FoxHound109 wrote...

jtav wrote...

And I don't think BW would be willing to pus the envelope like that, not when the player base Vega seems designed to appeal to is stereotyped as making lots of homophobic insults.

Not sure if I agree with this. The people Vega "seems designed to appeal to" isn't really the same as people that Vega actually appeals to. Check this thread. Most people in this thread seem okay with the idea of Vega being gay or bi.

Not to dampen your spirits, but BSN is the butt of the fandom. And the reason people in this thread are supportive is because that's what this thread is for.

jtav wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

jtav wrote...

Money's
on Joker at this point.

I refuse to believe they would make
non-squadmate comic-relief character the sole m/m LI in ME3.

The very popular comic relief.

Joker sucks, just for the record.

[FoxHound109]

who would know wrote...

Not to dampen your spirits, but BSN is the butt of the fandom. And the reason people in this thread are supportive is because that's what this thread is for.

I should have corrected my statement. I thought I was posting IN the Vega thread instead of here. So I didn't mean to point out the support for it in this thread, I meant to support for Vega being a gay/bi L.I. in the actual Vega thread. It's talked about there so often that I actually confused both of these threads for a brief moment (hence my mistake). There is nothing in the Vega thread that says posters have to support him as L.I. or a gay L.I. to be specific, but they do anyway. Check it out if you get the chance.