25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Carfax]

IsaacShep wrote...

Now look who's talking! Weren't you just talking how mad you will be if these virtual characters reveal they are bi?

Talk about taking something out of context   My point was that a character doesn't possess any sexuality unless the writer decides he or she does.

Ashley, Kaidan and all the other romanceable characters clearly do possess sexuality, as determined by their writers.  Now if those writers decide to change their sexuality merely to appease people like you, then yes, I would be ticked off, since Mass Effect isn't a dating sim.

Carfax wrote...
Kaidan: "Thinking you were gone... Was like losing a limb!"
Ashley: "I thought you were gone... I... You were more than our Commander"

Does Ashely/Kaidan say the same thing to opposite sex Shepard, or only same sex?

Any way, this could be construed either way.  Commander Shepard and Ashley/Kaidan have been through a lot together, so it's not inconceivable that they would be pretty torn up about the prospect of Commander Shepard being dead.

Yes and most straight guys are secure about themselves enough not to be bothered in a bit by it. Unlike you.

Who said I'm bothered by it?  I've already said that S/S romances don't bother me in the slightest.  What bothers me, is making previous ME characters that were romanceable only by the opposite sex, become romanceable by the same sex.

And thats is more of a continuity/integrity issue, and has nothing to do with bigotry.

Carfax wrote...
If BioWare has an ounce of sense, they will not submit to bigots. I don't doubt they're smarter than that.

Time will tell I suppose..

[jlb524]

slimgrin wrote...
The whole point is continuity, and whether or not one thinks it's tied closely to character. I think it is, which is why I disagree with Bioware's liberal approach. For the record, I've always supported a gay character in Mass Effect...a GAY character, not a bisexual one. Just my take.

Why exactly do you think a gay character would be better than a bisexual one?  I assume you mean for an LI?

[Carfax]

Nyoka wrote...

When you guys talk about Gaider, you mean his brilliant response to that "Bioware neglected their audience" thread? The post where he wrote this?

Gaider can talk all the smack he wants to, but DA2 wasn't exactly well received....though not necessarily because of the romances....although they certainly added fuel to the fire.

In the end, it all comes down to money.  Straight gamers (both male and female) comprise the vast majority of Bioware's fan base, so will always get preference over gaymers.

If DA2 sells less copies than DAO in the end, then you can be sure that changes will be made.  Whether this includes the romance model, remains to be seen.

Modifié par Carfax, 30 octobre 2011 - 11:38 .

[Xilizhra]

Any way, this could be construed either way.

Yes. It could.

And thats is more of a continuity/integrity issue, and has nothing to do with bigotry.

So you say.

If DA2 sells less copies than DAO in the end, then you can be sure that changes will be made. Whether this includes the romance model, remains to be seen.

I doubt it remains to be seen that much.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 30 octobre 2011 - 11:37 .

[shepskisaac]

Carfax wrote...

since Mass Effect isn't a dating sim.

But then you demand better sex scenes and praise The Witcher 2 for showing Triss's boobs.

Carfax wrote...
Any way, this could be construed either way.

And one of these perfectly valid ways is that it's an evidence of their feelings for Shepard.

Carfax wrote...
Who said I'm bothered by it?  I've already said that S/S romances don't bother me in the slightest.

Your actions do. Both in this thread and your own created "gems" like this.

Carfax wrote...
And thats is more of a continuity/integrity issue, and has nothing to do with bigotry.

Of course it has everything. You're just using continuity as an excuse.

Carfax wrote...

In the end, it all comes down to money. Straight gamers (both male and female) comprise the vast majority of Bioware's fan base, so will always get preference over gaymers.

But bigoted straight gamers are in minority. If you say majority rules, then bad news. The majority of straight gamers doesn't have anything against old characters being available for s/s romance.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 30 octobre 2011 - 11:41 .

[jeweledleah]

liesandpropaganda wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

don't read into my words what I haven't said.

him being
avaialble to male Hawke didn't screw him up. it barely dented him.  he
was enough of a flirt in DAA to have credibly written in.. something.

him changing writers and voice actors, the fact that any and all possible endings of Awakenings are completely
ignored, the fact thathis merge with justice used as an excuse for a
complete character rewrite...  he's no longer Anders.  he's someone who
looks like Anders with some of his memories.

concidering that original writers for both VS characters are no longer with ME team?  yeah.

wait, you mentioned Anders in a discussion considering s/s love interests, of course i'm drawing the conclusion that, you know, it's connected

I'd say merging with a spirit is a rather plausible reason for significantly changing the character, so Anders' example isn't actually working here - neither Kaidan nor Ashley got any sort of mind-screwing experience, so i wouldn't worry about them changing so drastically.

But it isn't exactly about them becoming available for s/s romance, is it? 

well - if the reasoning for them to be available for any new romance (and I don't have any illusions about exclusive dialoge here - it will be copy paste) is based on Horizon dialogue?  if they were always in love just hiding  in a closet?  they are not supposed to be people who dwell and don't get over stuff. 
they are not supposed to be teenages pining over unrequitted crush.

I'm very much agaisnt HORIZON being used as proof of their LOVE for EITHER Shepard.  I'm very much against default preexisting crush, ala Tali.  Even existing romance was damaged by Horizon, on BOTH sides.  hearing that "losing youwas like losing a limb"  equals  I LOVE YOU  pisses me off.  becasue it does... not... FIT.

its not even as good of an excuse as Justice posession (and I'm very glad that they written in Karl to have existed long before justice.  becasue Anders becoming bisexual DUE to posession is just creepy and horrifying, I would keep wondering - is he relaly into Hawke or is real Anders screaming in there somewhere, while justice drives.  does he actualy want it, or is his mind, his preferences no longer his own?).

[jlb524]

If it went on popularity and the target audience, we wouldn't have male LIs period, let alone so many (three in ME2).

[slimgrin]

jlb524 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
The whole point is continuity, and whether or not one thinks it's tied closely to character. I think it is, which is why I disagree with Bioware's liberal approach. For the record, I've always supported a gay character in Mass Effect...a GAY character, not a bisexual one. Just my take.

Why exactly do you think a gay character would be better than a bisexual one?  I assume you mean for an LI?

Because I see it as a commitment to character, and being BI is a compromise. Why in the hell don't they just make a character gay and dispense with the formality? Make all gamers confront a gay character instead of choosing their sexuality on the romance. Sorry, but BioWare is being anything but progressive. It's their same old 'let's please everyone approach.'

Bullsh*t. Grow some balls and do it right.

Modifié par slimgrin, 30 octobre 2011 - 11:46 .

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...

they are not supposed to be teenages pining over unrequitted crush.

C'mon, you know this is not something that happens only to teenagers

jlb524 wrote...

If it went on popularity and the target audience, we wouldn't have male LIs period, let alone so many (three in ME2).

Or any class other than Soldier (played by 65% of ME players...)

Modifié par IsaacShep, 30 octobre 2011 - 11:47 .

[Carfax]

IsaacShep wrote...

]But then you demand better sex scenes and praise The Witcher 2 for showing Triss's boobs.

If they're going to include romances or sex scenes, they may as well do it right wouldn't you say?

I mean, who among us, didn't cringe at the horrible sex scenes in DAO with the diapers?    The Witcher 2 takes sex scenes to the next level, by making them a lot more believable and organic.

Like I said, if you're going to do something, do it right!

And one of these perfectly valid ways is that it's an evidence of their feelings for Shepard.

Well duh, of course they have feelings for Shepard.  Having feelings for someone doesn't necessarily have to be sexual or romantic.

Your actions do. Both in this thread and your own created "gems" like this.

And whats wrong with what I said?  I was simply surprised that ME3 finally decided to include a gay male romance, since it's obvious that Bioware had been avoiding it throughout the entire series..

I never said I was against the inclusion of it.. 

Of course it has everything. You're just using continuity as an excuse.

Believe what you will.  Unless I say I'm outright in favor of equal representation for homosexuality in the ME series, you and yours will always see me as a bigot.  And I can live with that, believe me

For the record though, I'll say that I previously put in writing my support for Vega (or any other new character) being a gay male romance option in ME3..

The majority of straight gamers doesn't have anything against old characters being available for s/s romance.

You, or even Bioware doesn't know this for a fact. 

Modifié par Carfax, 30 octobre 2011 - 11:50 .

[Xilizhra]

Because I see it as a commitment to character, and being BI is a compromise. Why in the hell don't they just make a character gay and dispense with the formality? Make all gamers confront a gay character instead of choosing their sexuality on the romance. Sorry, but BioWare is being anything but progressive. It's their same old 'let's please everyone approach.'

Bullsh*t. Grow some balls and do it right.

Resource shortfall issues prevent this. Also, ME was screwed from the beginning without having any possible homosexual relationships; whatever damage control is done is less than optimal, but it will work.

[slimgrin]

Nyoka wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Because I see it as a commitment to character, and being BI is a compromise. Why in the hell don't they just make a character gay and dispense with the formality? Make all gamers confront a gay character instead of choosing their sexuality on the romance. Sorry, but BioWare is being anything but progressive. It's their same old 'let's please everyone approach.'

Bullsh*t. Grow some balls and do it right.

But I don't want a token gay to pick blindly just because she's the gay, I want the LI whose personality best fits my Shepard or, more bluntly, whoever I like, period. Since you don't know nor care for which one she may be, we both win.

You're supporting the equivalent of making Manshep exclusively paragon and Femshep exclusively renegade because giving players choice undermines consistency. You're also supporting the equivalent of paragon ME1 imports to ME2 being unable to be renegade and vice versa.

Just for the record, I wouldn't support making all characters gay and then adding one extra character hetero for the heteros either.

WTF, I'm just saying if an npc is gay, make them gay. Only on the BSN would such an option be decried. This site blows my my mind...I give up.

[Zjarcal]

Oh look, Slimgrin is being an ass as usual.

[jlb524]

slimgrin wrote...

Because I see it as a commitment to character, and being BI is a compromise.

Does being bi vs. gay even affect 'character' though?

slimgrin wrote...

Why in the hell don't they just make a character gay and dispense with the formality? Make all gamers confront a gay character instead of choosing their sexuality on the romance. Sorry, but BioWare is being anything but progressive. It's their same old 'let's please everyone approach.'

Bullsh*t. Grow some balls and do it right.

I disagree, considering that BW is pretty much the only developer that has recently allowed me (a lesbian) to romance the character I wanted to and not just the one I had to romance if I wanted to do an f/f romance because they finally gave gay PCs the same amount of choices straight ones always enjoy by default.

You seem to be the one trying to turn this into something political by asking them to 'add in gay characters so they can be progressive'.  I just want romance options so I can possibly enjoy the game as much as someone playing a straight PC.  I want to be able to romance my favorite female LI with my favorite PC (who will be female).  There's nothing political about it.

[ADLegend21]

Nyoka wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

WTF, I'm just saying if an npc is gay, make them gay. Only on the BSN would such an option be decried. This site blows my my mind...I give up.

If a character is dead, they must be dead for everyone. Look at all the dead NPCs who mysteriously appear on youtube ME2 videos. Rana, Fist, I killed them in ME1, how come they're alive in someone else's game? If I experience Mass Effect as a story in which those guys are dead, then they should be dead for everyone as well, regardless of what they may have liked to choose.

That's the argument you're making here. Give it a little thought.

^couldn't have said it better myself.

[Carfax]

slimgrin wrote...

WTF, I'm just saying if an npc is gay, make them gay. Only on the BSN would such an option be decried. This site blows my my mind...I give up.

Bioware doesn't want to make gay romanceable characters, because gays are such a small minority of their fan base. 

It makes a lot more sense from a production standpoint to make bisexual romanceable characters, since they can be romanced by both straights and gays..

Like killing two birds with one stone

[flemm]

All this agonizing over continuity and character development just makes me hope broshep can make love to each and every dude on the Normandy in ME3, if he so chooses. Reading all the ****ing and moaning about it on the forums afterward would make it worthwhile on the sheer entertainment value of that alone.

Vice versa for femshep, of course, though I imagine that would draw fewer complaints.

[slimgrin]

Whatever. Make everyone Bi. I'm an ass.

[Youknow]

Nyoka wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Because I see it as a commitment to character, and being BI is a compromise. Why in the hell don't they just make a character gay and dispense with the formality? Make all gamers confront a gay character instead of choosing their sexuality on the romance. Sorry, but BioWare is being anything but progressive. It's their same old 'let's please everyone approach.'

Bullsh*t. Grow some balls and do it right.

But I don't want a token gay to pick blindly just because she's the gay, I want the LI whose personality best fits my Shepard or, more bluntly, whoever I like, period. Since you don't know nor care for which one she may be, we both win.

You're supporting the equivalent of making Manshep exclusively paragon and Femshep exclusively renegade because giving players choice undermines consistency. You're also supporting the equivalent of paragon ME1 imports to ME2 being unable to be renegade and vice versa.

Just for the record, I wouldn't support making all characters gay and then adding one extra character hetero for the heteros either.

I don't see how that even works. I mean, in real life everyone you wish was gay/straight isn't. No matter how much I get along with that girl I like, she's not budging from her sexuality. I can't force her to. I wish the world was bisexual, it would make it easier on me, but such is not the case. 

And that's not even the same thing. Paragon and Renegade is an alignment. Sexuality is not an alignment. This doesn't even make sense.