25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Youknow]

liesandpropaganda wrote...

There are also no mass effect fields in real life

Yeah, there aren't . But I don't see anything wrong with some characters being exclusively straight and gay. I'd rather see that, as you can make each experience far more unique that way. 

[Youknow]

rynluna wrote...

Youknow wrote...
I don't see how that even works. I mean, in real life everyone you wish was gay/straight isn't. No matter how much I get along with that girl I like, she's not budging from her sexuality. I can't force her to. I wish the world was bisexual, it would make it easier on me, but such is not the case. 

This is why I love gaming.  It's not real and I should have the option for more s/s romances, whether they be new or old.  We already get to romance aliens who weren't 'manceable in ME1...how much of a stretch is it that previous companions can be open to romance in ME3?  I mean, really.  It's just a game.

But then that requires far more work for them. At this point, hearing these things, if I were Bioware, I'd kill all romances in future installments of games. Apparently I'm no longer allowed to design characters the way I see fit, but rather how the audience wants me to. I'm all for s/s romance, I really am, but asking for all of them is pretty ridiculous. Specifically, that means that I couldn't have characters like Aveline, Sten, Canderous, Wrex, etc that are pretty cool people that you can get along with that don't harbor romantic feelings towards you. 

[jlb524]

Youknow wrote...
I don't see how that even works. I mean, in real life everyone you wish was gay/straight isn't. No matter how much I get along with that girl I like, she's not budging from her sexuality. I can't force her to.

That same heterosexual girl probably won't date a lot of men b/c she finds them ugly in real life.

In Mass Effect, all the females on the ship (minus Kasumi) want ugly Shepard.

Youknow wrote...

But then that requires far more work for them. At this point, hearing these things, if I were Bioware, I'd kill all romances in future installments of games. Apparently I'm no longer allowed to design characters the way I see fit, but rather how theaudience wants me to. I'm all for s/s romance, I really am, but asking for all of them is pretty ridiculous. Specifically, that means that I couldn't have characters like Aveline, Sten, Canderous, Wrex, etc that are pretty cool people that you can get along with that don't harbor romantic feelings towards you. 

There are characters that aren't romanceable, sure.

This is about not being able to romance characters that have romance content in the game already just sitting there, but you can't access it for your fave LI b/c of a gender check.


Two completely different issues.

Modifié par jlb524, 31 octobre 2011 - 12:35 .

[jwalker]

Youknow wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Because I see it as a commitment to character, and being BI is a compromise. Why in the hell don't they just make a character gay and dispense with the formality? Make all gamers confront a gay character instead of choosing their sexuality on the romance. Sorry, but BioWare is being anything but progressive. It's their same old 'let's please everyone approach.'

Bullsh*t. Grow some balls and do it right.

But I don't want a token gay to pick blindly just because she's the gay, I want the LI whose personality best fits my Shepard or, more bluntly, whoever I like, period. Since you don't know nor care for which one she may be, we both win.

You're supporting the equivalent of making Manshep exclusively paragon and Femshep exclusively renegade because giving players choice undermines consistency. You're also supporting the equivalent of paragon ME1 imports to ME2 being unable to be renegade and vice versa.

Just for the record, I wouldn't support making all characters gay and then adding one extra character hetero for the heteros either.

I don't see how that even works. I mean, in real life everyone you wish was gay/straight isn't. No matter how much I get along with that girl I like, she's not budging from her sexuality. I can't force her to. I wish the world was bisexual, it would make it easier on me, but such is not the case. 

And that's not even the same thing. Paragon and Renegade is an alignment. Sexuality is not an alignment. This doesn't even make sense. 

How what you can and can't do in real life has anything to do with this ?
You don't even pick your own name in real life.

Is about choices when you create your characters. You pick their gender, their background, their class, their abilities, etc....And then some people have a lot of options to pick their LIs, others just one, if at all...

[DarkDragon777]

Nyoka wrote...

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Oh yes, because it's only fair that gay people get representation in every aspect of life<_<

Ah, those pesky gays who insist on existing.

At this point, it's beyond existing. The ability for gays to infiltrate the media and education system is useless if it destroys everything that's been established.

[Athayniel]

Carfax wrote...

Really?  So why would Miranda be romanceable by MaleShep, but not FemShep?  And why would Thane be romanceable by FemShep, but not DudeShep?

Is there any purpose behind this, or is it just probability?

I take it to be limited resources and preferring to tighten the focus of the story paths they're providing. I then note that they left themselves open to expending it all by not making any definitive statements should they choose to revisit things at a later time. It is a common writing technique. Had Miranda actually turned down an approach by femShep then I might agree that it would be out of character for her to then enter into a relationship with her in ME3. That event never took place however.

Somehow I get the feeling that "implied" to you would mean nothing less than an outright statement by one of the characters that they're straight or bisexual.

There are many ways to create the implication of heterosexuality. Even so, implication is not certainty and it leaves the writers open to take different story paths in future. Sure, Miranda has past relationships with men in the canon, it certainly implies her attraction to men in general, it doesn't imply a lack of attraction in women. That was entirely your assumption. Other characters don't even have confirmed relationships with the opposite sex in their backstory and yet you still claim their heterosexuality is implied. You're assuming their heterosexuality. I assume nothing.

Just like Gaider never had to deal with the fiasco that was Anders?

Yes, bigots called him out on a web forum because he showed them what a bad idea it is to assume things. I don't see the problem. Especially since he repudiated their assumptions and entitlements. He also never said that the availablility of all LIs for both genders was a bad idea. Only that, in hindsight, he shouldn't have made Anders proposition m!Hawke first even under the ridiculously specific circumstances under which it happened.

I hope you wait a very long time..

Why? Don't you want to play ME3? Or do you just not want me to play the kind of ME3 I'd like to play?

[shepskisaac]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

At this point, it's beyond existing. The ability for gays to infiltrate the media and education system is useless if it destroys everything that's been established.

Disagree. But sorry, don't have time to discuss it with you further. We're having the meeting with others gays to discuss the plan on taking over football.

[Youknow]

jlb524 wrote...

Youknow wrote...
I don't see how that even works. I mean, in real life everyone you wish was gay/straight isn't. No matter how much I get along with that girl I like, she's not budging from her sexuality. I can't force her to.

That same heterosexual girl probably won't date a lot of men b/c she finds them ugly in real life.

In Mass Effect, all the females on the ship (minus Kasumi) want ugly Shepard.

Well too be fair, there isn't really an "attractiveness" stat in Mass Effect, which is why they don't have things like "you're too ugly to date," etc. I'd be up for it I guess, but that seems like far too much effort for something so minor in the game. If it were a dating sim? Sure, but an Action/RPG? Not really.

My problem is that having Sheperd be able to make people bisexual reeks of more of that god-status Sheperd has in Mass Effect already. And I hate that in games. I like feeling "human." What we have now in the world with everyone bisexual Sheperd wants it so Sheperd gets it. I don't know, but it's not really a RPG so much as it is a dating Sim at that point. And there are enough sims for all sexualities to where I can go play those instead if I want a large variety of personalities to choose from for my sexuality. 

[bleetman]

Youknow wrote...

dating Sim

*takes a drink*

Modifié par bleetman, 31 octobre 2011 - 12:43 .

[jlb524]

Youknow wrote...
Well too be fair, there isn't really an "attractiveness" stat in Mass Effect, which is why they don't have things like "you're too ugly to date," etc. I'd be up for it I guess, but that seems like far too much effort for something so minor in the game. If it were a dating sim? Sure, but an Action/RPG? Not really.

They could base it on the slider combinations you use.

Youknow wrote...
My problem is that having Sheperd be able to make people bisexual reeks of more of that god-status Sheperd has in Mass Effect already. And I hate that in games. I like feeling "human." What we have now in the world with everyone bisexual Sheperd wants it so Sheperd gets it. I don't know, but it's not really a RPG so much as it is a dating Sim at that point. And there are enough sims for all sexualities to where I can go play those instead if I want a large variety of personalities to choose from for my sexuality. 

That would also be a problem for ugly Shepard being able to date whoever as well.  God-Shepard can be totally fugs and get all the women he wants.

Also, you don't have to pursue all the romances at one time.  When I play, I go for one LI and ignore the others, so in that playthrough it's only ever one person on the ship that's really interested in my PC.  I don't feel like a god or goddess, in my case.

Just because there are X many options doesn't mean that these all have to be pursued at once.

Also, have you ever played a real dating sim?

Modifié par jlb524, 31 octobre 2011 - 12:47 .

[Youknow]

Nyoka wrote...

Youknow wrote...

I don't see how that even works. I mean, in real life everyone you wish was gay/straight isn't. No matter how much I get along with that girl I like, she's not budging from her sexuality. I can't force her to. I wish the world was bisexual, it would make it easier on me, but such is not the case. 

And that's not even the same thing. Paragon and Renegade is an alignment. Sexuality is not an alignment. This doesn't even make sense. 

In real life, people you wish were alive aren't. In Mass Effect, however, you have alive people who are dead for me. That's because we have the same choices available, and we role play those decisions, which leads to different scenarios.

Same for romances. I don't understand why a male LI should fall for Shepard regarless of who Shepard is (paragon, renegade, beautiful, ugly, racist, mean, nice, caring, ruthless...). Is that how sexual orientation works? If you think LIs are like in real life now, apply that to yourself: do you like every single girl on the planet? Because Mass Effect's LIs like every single Shepard on the planet... as long as they have the correct kind of crotch. Do you think that's what real life is like? Obviously it isn't like that. Whatever reason they had to exclude s/s relationships, real life had nothing to do with it.

As for paragon and renegade, those are just another example of character inconsistency that doesn't seem to upset anybody. In fact, I've read many people complaining that they had to be consistent throughout the game to be able to pick some blue and red dialogue options. They were angry because the game was encouraging them to be consistent. They wanted to play an inconsistent Shepard. No, continuity and consistency are definitely not the real problem here. That's the point of my example.

Not even sure where you are going with that. I mean, I thought it was a RPG, so obviously, not everyone on the entire ship was going to be bisexual. The character's attraction might simply be that superficial. They might only even consider them because of their sexuality. Why is it that just because I disagree with everyone being bisexual, people are somehow interpreting that as "don't want homosexual romance in the game?"

No, they wanted to have both Paragon and Renegade options, because a person isn't always a nice guy, or picking the most forward and angry apporach to every scenario they come across. Sometimes they are meaner to people because they don't like them, or nicer because they like them. Or even simply from stress. People are complaining that the system indirectly punishes Sheperd's that don't always spam the same alignment they were using beforehand. There's no such gameplay detriment for playing the game here from what we've seen. If I started acting heterosexual beforehand, I'm probably not going to be cut off from the homosexual dialogue because I played the game "too straight." 

[slimgrin]

Zjarcal wrote...

Oh look, Slimgrin is being an ass as usual.

Typical...

[jlb524]

Youknow wrote...
Why is it that just because I disagree with everyone being bisexual, people are somehow interpreting that as "don't want homosexual romance in the game?"

No one is interpreting it that way.

[Xilizhra]

If I started acting heterosexual beforehand, I'm probably not going to be cut off from the homosexual dialogue because I played the game "too straight."

Er, how could you?

[FoxHound109]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

At this point, it's beyond existing. The ability for gays to infiltrate the media and education system is useless if it destroys everything that's been established.

IsaacShep wrote...

Disagree. But sorry, don't have time to discuss it with you further. We're having the meeting with others gays to discuss the plan on taking over football.

Sir! I have already begun to mobilize the army of lesbians, sir! Soon the world will be ours, as per section 17, paragraph 3 of the Gay Agenda's plan for supreme success.



*Salute*

[Youknow]

jlb524 wrote...

Youknow wrote...
Well too be fair, there isn't really an "attractiveness" stat in Mass Effect, which is why they don't have things like "you're too ugly to date," etc. I'd be up for it I guess, but that seems like far too much effort for something so minor in the game. If it were a dating sim? Sure, but an Action/RPG? Not really.

They could base it on the slider combinations you use.

Youknow wrote...
My problem is that having Sheperd be able to make people bisexual reeks of more of that god-status Sheperd has in Mass Effect already. And I hate that in games. I like feeling "human." What we have now in the world with everyone bisexual Sheperd wants it so Sheperd gets it. I don't know, but it's not really a RPG so much as it is a dating Sim at that point. And there are enough sims for all sexualities to where I can go play those instead if I want a large variety of personalities to choose from for my sexuality. 

That would also be a problem for ugly Shepard being able to date whoever as well.  God-Shepard can be totally fugs and get all the women he wants.

Also, you don't have to pursue all the romances at one time.  When I play, I go for one LI and ignore the others, so in that playthrough it's only ever one person on the ship that's really interested in my PC.  I don't feel like a god or goddess, in my case.

Just because there are X many options doesn't mean that these all have to be pursued at once.

Also, have you ever played a real dating sim?

Slider combos would not work. The reason for that, would be the player made a Sheperd that they think is attractive, and yet the game registers that the character is not attractive. I think it would be interesting if they did the sliders, and certain aliens found you attractive based on them, but again, that's too much work for too little accomplished. 



Oh, I know you don't have to pursue all of the relationships at once. But the fact that I'm always the girl that initiates them, it comes across as it goes back to characters not actively doing anything unless you, the player, give them permission to. Which to me is kind of boring. 

Modifié par Youknow, 31 octobre 2011 - 12:52 .

[bleetman]

liesandpropaganda wrote...

Ugly Shepard beds whomever he wants!

By the Maker, what unspeakable horror have you unleashed? You reckless fool! You know not what you have done!

Well, I can see why those Shepard recruitment posters didn't work out, at least.

Modifié par bleetman, 31 octobre 2011 - 12:56 .

[DarkDragon777]

FoxHound109 wrote...

DarkDragon777 wrote...

At this point, it's beyond existing. The ability for gays to infiltrate the media and education system is useless if it destroys everything that's been established.

IsaacShep wrote...

Disagree. But sorry, don't have time to discuss it with you further. We're having the meeting with others gays to discuss the plan on taking over football.

Sir! I have already begun to mobilize the army of lesbians, sir! Soon the world will be ours, as per section 17, paragraph 3 of the Gay Agenda's plan for supreme success.



*Salute*

I love how you're just proving my point.

[FoxHound109]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

I love how you're just proving my point.

<----- Humor.


<----- Your head.

[Youknow]

jlb524 wrote...

Youknow wrote...
Why is it that just because I disagree with everyone being bisexual, people are somehow interpreting that as "don't want homosexual romance in the game?"

No one is interpreting it that way.

Well then I apologize. I just felt like people were seemingly upset about the fact that I didn't have a problem with everyone NOT being  bi... 

Xilizhra wrote...

If I started acting heterosexual beforehand, I'm probably not going to be cut off from the homosexual dialogue because I played the game "too straight."

Er, how could you?

I don't know. That's why I'm not sure how comparing P/R to S/S makes any sense. 

Modifié par Youknow, 31 octobre 2011 - 12:56 .

[jlb524]

Youknow wrote...
Slider combos would not work. The reason for that, would be the player made a Sheperd that they think is attractive, and yet the game registers that the character is not attractive.

Oh, just like every mother thinks their kids are the most beautiful children in the world, most ME players that create a Shepard think theirs is hawt.

It's not about the player thinking their Shepard is attractive but the game itself.  That's the point.  Hey, you're too ugly to romance Miranda...too bad!

Youknow wrote...
I think it would be interesting if they did the sliders, and certain aliens found you attractive based on them, but again, that's too much work for too little accomplished. 

Who cares about 'resources'?  We're talking about 'realism' here!

Youknow wrote...
Oh, I know you don't have to pursue all of the relationships at once. But the fact that I'm always the girl that initiates them, it comes across as it goes back to characters not actively doing anything unless you, the player, give them permission to. Which to me is kind of boring. 

That's how they usually work, though.  Regardless if they are straight or bisexual.  Liara made the first move in ME1 and some people freaked so they changed that in ME2.