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[jlb524]

Carfax wrote...

Only an average man would say something like this..  Handsome men, especially if they are in a position of authority, power, wealth etc will invariably attract a lot of women.

So no, it's not unrealistic for so many women to be attracted to Shepard. 

Shepard might not be handsome...that is the point.  He can be quite hideous, actually.

Do I have to post Ugly Shepard?

[Youknow]

jlb524 wrote...

It is part of the romance though!  We are trying to make the romance more realistic and better!

Now you're just mocking me. 

I don't get this attitude...the 'I don't like where they are going with romances so I want them to just remove them all!!!'.

If you don't like them, don't play them.

I also only ever hear remarks like this in s/s romance threads for some reason.

Couldn't that be said to people that just can't accept that everyone isn't S/S?

Because attractiveness isn't a realistic factor for determining romantic compatibility?  

Yes it is. 

You do realize I'm not really arguing for an 'attraction meter' but am simply providing a counter-argument to yours, right?

No. I have no idea what point you're even trying to make anymore. I feel like you're just trying to berate me for not completely agreeing 100% with you. 

Youknow wrote...


But if you do want them to provide s/s content (and you did say that you do earlier) it is a better use of resources to make the handful of LIs open to both genders vs. making entirely new gay only LIs.

No it isn't. Suppose you have 10 party members. 6 of them can be romanced. 1 is male and straight. 1 is female and straight. 1 is exclusively gay. 1 is exclusively lesbian. 2 are bisexual of oppsing genders. That gives each player 2 romances regardless of gender or sexuality, and still leaves 4 party members that cannot be romanced to boot. That makes for 8 romances. Like ME2, but doesn't require you to do 12 romances. It still saves more time not making everyone romancable by either gender. Unless you opt to have less people that are able to be romanced. 

On a brighter note, it would force each game to have a more balanced ratio of men and women. At minimum, there would have to be 3 men and 3 women. 

Okay.

I really don't mind it when characters initiate.  Some do and complain about it a lot, regardless if its gay/straight/bisexual.

Yeah, that's true, but I don't mind it. So long as you can cut it off without much of a loss of anything. 

[Athayniel]

Carfax wrote...

As many people have already noted, Mass Effect is NOT a dating sim, so people cannot realistically expect the game to support their every whim and fancy with dialogue, because all of the dialogue is voiced and it takes up disk space..  Simply because Miranda or Jacob doesn't turn down a proposition from same sex Shepard, has no bearing on the truth or falsehood of whether these characters are actually bisexual.  The only reliable indicator is the romanceable dialogue, which supports the notion that these characters are heterosexual. 

In the end, it's the writer that determines the sexuality of these characters, and unless the Mass Effect team has chosen to follow in the footsteps of the Dragon Age 2 team by making all romanceable NPCs contextually bi, then I doubt their sexuality will shift in ME3.

You write these things as if they somehow refute my arguments. The only thing which can reliably determine the sexuality of a character is a confirmation or denial given in that character's voice or as a recounting of their background in narration. None of the characters have this. Your arguments have no backing in evidence or proof in the storytelling.

And again, Mass Effect is not a dating sim, so the game has no obligation to specifically state what the sexuality of the characters are!

It can be implied, via their actions, dialogue, or whether they are available for S/S romance.

Again, you bring up "dating sim" as if this is somehow germane to the discussion. Of course Mass Effect has no obligation to specifically state any characters sexuality. Why are you then assuming what their sexualities are?

And many of the characters do have confirmed relationships or sexual flings with the opposite sex.  Garrus had sex with a Turian female, Thane was married I believe, Jacob had an affair with Miranda, Miranda with Jacob, Ashley had some crush on a fellow male squad mate on Eden Prime, Jack had a boyfriend, Kasumi had her boyfriend, and expresses her attraction to Jacob.....

I think the only characters that don't imply their attraction to the opposite sex in their background is Tali and Kaidan, although I recall Kaidan saying he found Liara "easy on the eyes."

I've never denied any of those instances and you're free to take them to mean that those characters are heterosexual (with the possible exception of Jack) in your Shepards' universes. However, you don't get to do the same for my Shepards' universes. To be honest I don't care about the sexuality of most of the ME cast, I have a fairly specific list of NPCs I would like to see romanceable by my various Sheps. I would not deny anyone else their particular choice of LI however. I want IsaacShep to get his Kaidan and Vega and if I could somehow arrange it for Abispa to get some Wrex-loving I would do so in a heartbeat. But as you've pointed out, it's not up to me. If it were, everyone would be available to both genders of Shepard.

Yeah, Anders goes from being a ladies man in Dragon Age Awakening to being a full blown homosexual in DA2....if you play as MaleHawke. 

I have not played DA:A or DA2 yet so my knowledge is gleaned from the discussions I've read here on BSN and on wiki pages etc. It is my understanding that Anders was very flirty in DA:A and between then and DA2 was merged with a demon. A life-changing if not psyche altering event to be sure. However, his sexuality was no actively fixed in stone in DA:A and the relationship alluded to in DA2 did not contradict any backstory which had been previously revealed.

Again. The only thing at fault here seem to be the assumptions you had about Anders. Not anything about the character being inconsistant.

It seemed the comment was expected of me, so I said it

Ah, it was 'in character' for you to say that. God forbid you change your behaviour in future then. It would be a retcon.

[Chun Hei]

Just want to mention that us straight female gamers like RPGs with s/s romances in them. Two guys getting frisky is HOT! Catering to open minded women is a pretty big market for Bioware and Bethesda to exploit.

[silentassassin264]

I just find it hilarious that someone would talk about making a s/s Tali relationship a retcon. Tali flirts with femshep with the EXACT SAME LINES as maleshep and the only difference is that femshep was not given the option to tell Tali she was interested as well. It has nothing to do with Tali being straight or not bi, it has only do with Shepard not being allowed to be gay. I assume this could be extended to maleshep but I don't really play as maleshep to have any examples off the top of my head.

[Youknow]

silentassassin264 wrote...

I just find it hilarious that someone would talk about making a s/s Tali relationship a retcon. Tali flirts with femshep with the EXACT SAME LINES as maleshep and the only difference is that femshep was not given the option to tell Tali she was interested as well. It has nothing to do with Tali being straight or not bi, it has only do with Shepard not being allowed to be gay. I assume this could be extended to maleshep but I don't really play as maleshep to have any examples off the top of my head.

For ME1, it's a combination of you the player not having dialgoue, and the characters not doing anything. For ME2, it's: 

MaleShep: 
Auto-defaults to "romance killer" in Jacob's dialogue despite it being exactly the same.
Doesn't have the ability to say "I want you" to Thane.
He simply can't say anything to Garrus despite having the same lines (just like Tali actually). 

FemShep: 
Jack actually makes reference to the fact that she's tired of talking to Sheperd when a female. So that's unique. She also doesn't say that FemShep talks to her just for getting laid. 

Miranda's conversation kind of just ends in comparison to MaleShep. But that's only because the extra dialogue is romance. And really, there was nothing else to say to her just from the way it was handled in dialogue. 

Tali there really is no reason based off of how the dialogue goes as you pointed out. 

[Athayniel]

Youknow wrote...

Okay, I see where you are going. Off hand, I can't think of many games that literally have an "attractiveness" stat.  If you know of any, I'd be happy to hear tem.

Mostly pen and paper systems. It doesn't usually make a transition to CRPGs because they tend not to provide romances that often. JRPGs tend not to allow the player any choices in their stories and western RPGs tend not to make attractiveness a requirement.

Then I think that is more of a problem with the character-romance ratios than anything else. We can ignore Kasumi and Zaeed because they might not be had by every person playing the game.

ME2 had a lot of available LIs, you'll not see me refuting that. It is still a better use of resources to make the 9 females available to both genders of Shepard, than to make 18 females to suit heterosexual dudeSheps and lesbian femSheps.

And for the record, I played as FemShep first, and no, I didn't romance Liara.

Great. Not that germane to the discussion but nice to know.

I put that because of a comment you made earlier at me which I found to be highly unfair, largely because I don't agree with it.

You don't want want everyone to be Shepard-sexual because you claim it isn't realistic. But every woman who looks at manShep wanting to get in his pants is somehow okay.

My remark was made to illustrate the practical application of your statement against 'bisexual' LIs. I could have just as easily used all the male LIs who are interested in femShep as an example. The gender of choice of your Shepards is immaterial to the discussion.

You've pointed out that you don't like that dudeShep even has 9 female LI choices and that's fair enough. The fact remains he does and you still haven't presented an argument as to why those female LIs shouldn't be available to femShep as well. It's only fair.

[Carfax]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Just pointing out: from all the information we have, not all of the previous NPCs will be bisexual. But some will be. Ditto for new characters. 

The best assumption at the moment is that Ashley and Kaidan are both available for both genders of Shepard, depending on conversation choices early on. This is based on a half dozen tidbits of information and a fair bit of guesswork. It's not anywhere near confirmed, though. 

I'm curious as to what evidence you have that some of the old NPCs will be bisexual?  Has one of the devs publically stated this?

[Chun Hei]

Youknow wrote...

No it isn't. Suppose you have 10 party members. 6 of them can be romanced. 1 is male and straight. 1 is female and straight. 1 is exclusively gay. 1 is exclusively lesbian. 2 are bisexual of oppsing genders. That gives each player 2 romances regardless of gender or sexuality, and still leaves 4 party members that cannot be romanced to boot. That makes for 8 romances. Like ME2, but doesn't require you to do 12 romances. It still saves more time not making everyone romancable by either gender. Unless you opt to have less people that are able to be romanced. 

On a brighter note, it would force each game to have a more balanced ratio of men and women. At minimum, there would have to be 3 men and 3 women. 

How exact does expanding the cast conserve resources? Especially since it is not supposed to be a "dating sim"? LIs typically have more dialog (VA is expensive) and writers are paid by volume of text not to mention the rendering of romantic scenes. Fewer (say 4) "bi" LIs allow the romances to have more depth with the only added expense being a couple of lines of gender specific dialog. And Bioware does not have ot write a "gay" or "straight" character but focus on "distinct" characters that the players can choose whether they like them or not.

Modifié par Chun Hei, 31 octobre 2011 - 02:07 .

[jlb524]

Youknow wrote...
No. I have no idea what point you're even trying to make anymore. I feel like you're just trying to berate me for not completely agreeing 100% with you. 

I'm just trying to point out a flaw in your argument.

You've stated that having the handful of LIs all 'bisexual' or open to both genders is 'unrealistic' and thus 'not as good as it could be'.  I then provided a counter-argument with attractiveness.  I stated that they should include an attractiveness meter in order to make the romances 'realistic' which is 'good' in your opinion.  You're argument against the 'all bi LI' thing rests solely on this 'realism' argument but you want to ignore other ways in which all romances are unrealistic...which makes the foundation of your argument weak.

Youknow wrote...
No it isn't. Suppose you have 10 party members. 6 of them can be romanced. 1 is male and straight. 1 is female and straight. 1 is exclusively gay. 1 is exclusively lesbian. 2 are bisexual of oppsing genders. That gives each player 2 romances regardless of gender or sexuality, and still leaves 4 party members that cannot be romanced to boot. That makes for 8 romances. Like ME2, but doesn't require you to do 12 romances. It still saves more time not making everyone romancable by either gender. Unless you opt to have less people that are able to be romanced.

Yes, that's the point.  Less LIs mean less resources for the romances in general.  With the 'all bi' thing, they can use less resources but give more options...just as in your example that uses up a lot more resources.
 

Modifié par jlb524, 31 octobre 2011 - 02:07 .

[Carfax]

jlb524 wrote...

Shepard might not be handsome...that is the point.  He can be quite hideous, actually.

Do I have to post Ugly Shepard?

Well, Sheploo is handsome, and every custom DudeShep is superimposed over Sheploo in a sense.  Basically, in the game Shepard is always going to be viewed as handsome, regardless of how ugly you make him, because thats how Bioware want to portray him.

[jlb524]

Carfax wrote...
Well, Sheploo is handsome, and every custom DudeShep is superimposed over Sheploo in a sense.  Basically, in the game Shepard is always going to be viewed as handsome, regardless of how ugly you make him, because thats how Bioware want to portray him.

Let's just say my FemShep is superimposed over Sheploo so she can romance Miranda and call it a day.

[Athayniel]

Carfax wrote...

Athayniel wrote...

You don't want want everyone to be Shepard-sexual because you claim it isn't realistic. But every woman who looks at manShep wanting to get in his pants is somehow okay.

Only an average man would say something like this..  Handsome men, especially if they are in a position of authority, power, wealth etc will invariably attract a lot of women.

So no, it's not unrealistic for so many women to be attracted to Shepard. 

Right, because there are more factors involved apart from the shape of Shepard's nether regions. Oh wait... no there aren't.

I very specifically did not mention attractiveness or charisma in that part of the post. Nice of you to inject it into the discussion though.

[JoeShep]

Nyoka wrote...


If a character is dead, they must be dead for everyone. Look at all the dead NPCs who mysteriously appear on youtube ME2 videos. Rana, Fist, I killed them in ME1, how come they're alive in someone else's game? If I experience Mass Effect as a story in which those guys are dead, then they should be dead for everyone as well, regardless of what they may have liked to choose.

That's the argument you're making here. Give it a little thought.

 
This. Think about it. In a universe where Shepard has boobies, Kaidan can be romanced by her and doesn't follow up with, "...but I also like men"; therefore, it's "out of character" for him to be romanceable by a male Shepard. Compare that to the arguement that since he never says he isn't attracted to men means he could be. That just makes more sense and is less restrictive.

I've noticed people on both sides have been rather loose with the term "bisexual." In any particlar Shepard's universe, Kaidan could be strictly heterosexual, gay, or anything in between based on what is actually seen in that universe just as he can be paragron, renegade, dead or alive (there's a bit less "in between" on that one). Why do we have to keep a closed mind to our Shepard's universe because of what you feel about yours? The same goes for Ashley.

I can accept an argument against "everyone is bi" (even if that's a misuse of the term) from the standpoint of concern for the quality of the romances, but there's absolutely nothing in my maleShep's universe that means your no-****** bro Kaidan must be everyone else's, no option. Yes, it would be amazing if each romance were given unique, individual attention and detail, but it's not going to happen, let alone for gay-only romance. But to say that making a character romancable to either gender ruins the character is not convincing. It can be done well. The scene on Horizon can be interpreted in a completely platonic way (and in fact I would have loved developed friendship paths in the game), but it could also be built into a lot more for players who choose so, and it could be very moving in the hands of skilled writers.

And the best part about having such an option is that it doesn't have to impinge on your Kaidan at all; it's an option.

The same goes for Ashley.

I dislike the Talimance (and other non-romance Tali related parts of ME2) for gutting the whole lore about quarian immune systems, but rather than invade her character thread and rant and rave about it being removed from the game, I just don't romance her. Works like magic! 

tl;dr My Kaidan being bi (or even flat out gay) doesn't mean yours can't maintain your strictly no-gay head canon. So hands off. 

Edit: My first rant here needed a little reformatting.

Modifié par JoeShep, 31 octobre 2011 - 02:12 .

[MACharlie1]

jlb524 wrote...
You've stated that having the handful of LIs all 'bisexual' or open to both genders is 'unrealistic' and thus 'not as good as it could be'.  I then provided a counter-argument with attractiveness.  I stated that they should include an attractiveness meter in order to make the romances 'realistic' which is 'good' in your opinion.  You're argument against the 'all bi LI' thing rests solely on this 'realism' argument but you want to ignore other ways in which all romances are unrealistic...which makes the foundation of your argument weak.

If they wanted to do "realistic" what they should do is have different trees for different sexes. Make it harder for one then the other. 

i.e. FemShep will have to choose very carefully (there is only one option for her) to get into Ashley's pants while MaleShep has 1< options to get into her pants. Get it? 

[Chun Hei]

Carfax wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

Just pointing out: from all the information we have, not all of the previous NPCs will be bisexual. But some will be. Ditto for new characters. 

The best assumption at the moment is that Ashley and Kaidan are both available for both genders of Shepard, depending on conversation choices early on. This is based on a half dozen tidbits of information and a fair bit of guesswork. It's not anywhere near confirmed, though. 

I'm curious as to what evidence you have that some of the old NPCs will be bisexual?  Has one of the devs publically stated this?

Nothing can be set in stone but Kaidan fans have posted comments from his VA that hint at  him being s/s in ME3 and it is assumed that as one VS goes so goes the other. Needless to say even the most ardent of us s/s fans do not believe the past LIs will be all "bi" in ME3 though I support the idea in theory.

[silentassassin264]

Youknow wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

I just find it hilarious that someone would talk about making a s/s Tali relationship a retcon. Tali flirts with femshep with the EXACT SAME LINES as maleshep and the only difference is that femshep was not given the option to tell Tali she was interested as well. It has nothing to do with Tali being straight or not bi, it has only do with Shepard not being allowed to be gay. I assume this could be extended to maleshep but I don't really play as maleshep to have any examples off the top of my head.

For ME1, it's a combination of you the player not having dialgoue, and the characters not doing anything. For ME2, it's: 

MaleShep: 
Auto-defaults to "romance killer" in Jacob's dialogue despite it being exactly the same.
Doesn't have the ability to say "I want you" to Thane.
He simply can't say anything to Garrus despite having the same lines (just like Tali actually). 

FemShep: 
Jack actually makes reference to the fact that she's tired of talking to Sheperd when a female. So that's unique. She also doesn't say that FemShep talks to her just for getting laid. 

Miranda's conversation kind of just ends in comparison to MaleShep. But that's only because the extra dialogue is romance. And really, there was nothing else to say to her just from the way it was handled in dialogue. 

Tali there really is no reason based off of how the dialogue goes as you pointed out. 

Exactly.  There is absolutely no reason to assume Thane, Garrus, or Jacob absolutely had to be straight and not bi since the game give you no opportunity to ask and defaults to a neutral option.  And Jack admits she is bi with the boyfriends or girlfriends but seems (at least to me) to tell Shepard to ****** off because Shep doesn't seem to show any romantic interest in her like she assumes maleshep does.  Therefore it is rather stupid to act like it would be a retcon to make any of them bi since it is never established that they weren't bi.  You can't retcon something that was never established.

Modifié par silentassassin264, 31 octobre 2011 - 02:23 .

[Chun Hei]

@ JoeShep -- "Bisexual" is being used because I really do not want to bang my head to come up with a new word to more accurately describe a fiction character who can be romanced by either gender of hero because s/he is supposed to be "bi" in all games or because s/he is just hero-sexual.

[Carfax]

Athayniel wrote...

You write these things as if they somehow refute my arguments. The only thing which can reliably determine the sexuality of a character is a confirmation or denial given in that character's voice or as a recounting of their background in narration. None of the characters have this. Your arguments have no backing in evidence or proof in the storytelling.

I understand your point, and like I said, the game will never explictly state what the sexual orientation of these characters are.....because it's just not that sort of game.

It will only ever be implied, with perhaps a few exceptions.

Again, you bring up "dating sim" as if this is somehow germane to the discussion. Of course Mass Effect has no obligation to specifically state any characters sexuality. Why are you then assuming what their sexualities are?

I'm assuming what their sexualities are due to other indicators, as I've already stated a dozen times.

I've never denied any of those instances and you're free to take them to mean that those characters are heterosexual (with the possible exception of Jack) in your Shepards' universes. However, you don't get to do the same for my Shepards' universes.

So in your Shepards' universes, Garrus had sex with a male Turian rather than a female one I suppose? 

Or perhaps in your Shepards' universes, all the crew mates are bisexual? 
 

Again. The only thing at fault here seem to be the assumptions you had about Anders. Not anything about the character being inconsistant.

Yeah, how silly of me to assume a man that constantly flirts with women, expresses a desire to have sex with them on multiple occassions, and doesn't outright express any desire to be with men can all of a sudden turn into a raging homosexual

Honestly, I hope they just end the whole romance nonsense to begin with and get back to making great plots and stories..

[Youknow]

Athayniel wrote...


Mostly pen and paper systems. It doesn't usually make a transition to CRPGs because they tend not to provide romances that often. JRPGs tend not to allow the player any choices in their stories and western RPGs tend not to make attractiveness a requirement.

Ah. Gotcha. JRPGs when they have choices for romance, tend to make it to where they find you attractive based on your decisions rather than anything else. WRPGs tend to not care in general.

ME2 had a lot of available LIs, you'll not see me refuting that. It is still a better use of resources to make the 9 females available to both genders of Shepard, than to make 18 females to suit heterosexual dudeSheps and lesbian femSheps.

But the issue here is that it doesn't save resources. At all. If I were making a game, and I say 4 romances, 2 of opposite gender straight and 1 bisexual of each gender, there's no way anyone can refute that it takes more time to do this than make all of them bisexual and have romance scenes. Even without having to worry about gender for dialogue, bodytypes do matter and it would suck for the same genders to have clipping issues and the what not. 

My remark was made to illustrate the practical application of your statement against 'bisexual' LIs. I could have just as easily used all the male LIs who are interested in femShep as an example. The gender of choice of your Shepards is immaterial to the discussion.

You've pointed out that you don't like that dudeShep even has 9 female LI choices and that's fair enough. The fact remains he does and you still haven't presented an argument as to why those female LIs shouldn't be available to femShep as well. It's only fair.

Okay. Fine. 
Because the writer said so? Does there really need to be any other argument? I mean, arguing with that method is akin to asking why you can't make certain actions at parts in the game. If the DM/writer puts a veto on the idea, that's argument enough in itself. And I don't see anything wrong with the characters having set sexualities. I was fine with DA2 for instance having everyone be bisexual, because they simply were. But does it really need to be done in every game? And while we're on the subject of romances, does there need to be romance in every game? 

Chun Hei wrote...



How exact does expanding the cast conserve resources? Especially since it is not supposed to be a "dating sim"? LIs typically have more dialog (VA is expensive) and writers are paid by volume of text not to mention the rendering of romantic scenes. Fewer (say 4) "bi" LIs allow the romances to have more depth with the only added expense being a couple of lines of gender specific dialog. And Bioware does not have ot write a "gay" or "straight" character but focus on "distinct" characters that the players can choose whether they like them or not.

Because I'd like to imagine that the romances wouldn't exactly be copied and pasted. There would obviously be some differences. Even DA2 had some differences in dialogue from your gender. Even ME1 had differences in dialogue for Liara based on your gender. If bisexuality means that a female cannot talk about the woman of her dreams, or a man can't talk about the man of his dreams, then count me out of it. 

jlb524 wrote...


I'm just trying to point out a flaw in your argument.

You've stated that having the handful of LIs all 'bisexual' or open to both genders is 'unrealistic' and thus 'not as good as it could be'.  I then provided a counter-argument with attractiveness.  I stated that they should include an attractiveness meter in order to make the romances 'realistic' which is 'good' in your opinion.  You're argument against the 'all bi LI' thing rests solely on this 'realism' argument but you want to ignore other ways in which all romances are unrealistic...which makes the foundation of your argument weak.

 

I'm not ignoring it. I stated that I don't expect it to be there. I never said "I have a problem with an attractiveness bar." And no, it doesn't rest solely on realism. You just continue to argue as though I have just to make your argument easier. 

Yes, that's the point.  Less LIs mean less resources for the romances in general.  With the 'all bi' thing, they can use less resources but give more options...just as in your example that uses up a lot more resources.

 

But exclusive sexuality will always use less resources than forced bisexuality, so that's a moot point. 

[KawaiiKatie]

Carfax wrote...

Athayniel wrote...

Again. The only thing at fault here seem to be the assumptions you had about Anders. Not anything about the character being inconsistant.

Yeah, how silly of me to assume a man that constantly flirts with women, expresses a desire to have sex with them on multiple occassions, and doesn't outright express any desire to be with men can all of a sudden turn into a raging homosexual

Anders is a raging homosexual in DA2? Nobody tell femHawke, she'll be heartbroken to find out all that she had with him didn't count.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 31 octobre 2011 - 02:37 .

[jlb524]

Youknow wrote...
I'm not ignoring it. I stated that I don't expect it to be there. I never said "I have a problem with an attractiveness bar." And no, it doesn't rest solely on realism. You just continue to argue as though I have just to make your argument easier. 

You apparently have some problem with it as you stated you'd rather they don't implement an attractiveness bar for the sake of 'resources'.  If you didn't have some problem with it, you wouldn't have attempted to argue against it these last few pages.

What else does your argument rest on besides realism then?

Youknow wrote...
But exclusive sexuality will always use less resources than forced bisexuality, so that's a moot point. 

If all the LIs are heterosexual (or homosexual), yes.

But if you want to maximize options with as little resources as possible, then no.

Modifié par jlb524, 31 octobre 2011 - 02:40 .

[Athayniel]

Carfax wrote...

I understand your point, and like I said, the game will never explictly state what the sexual orientation of these characters are.....because it's just not that sort of game.

What does that even mean? Would an outright confirmation or denial somehow break the game's genre? That makes no sense whatsoever. This has nothing to do with the games genre or style. It's about storytelling and writing techniques employed.

I'm assuming what their sexualities are due to other indicators, as I've already stated a dozen times.

Right, I have also already pointed out that your assumptions are meaningless. They have no bearing on the characters sexualities whether confirmed or unknown.

So in your Shepards' universes, Garrus had sex with a male Turian rather than a female one I suppose? 

Or perhaps in your Shepards' universes, all the crew mates are bisexual? 

No. In my Shepard's universes Garrus had sex with a female turian in that instance he mentioned. It doesn't preclude him from having male partners in his past which he has not mentioned. And no, the crew of the Normandy aren't all bisexuals in my Shepards' universes, but depending on the universe some of them might be bisexual or even gay. If I were to create a femShep to romance Tali for instance would live in a universe in which Tali is a lesbian unless ME3 actually had her confirming bisexuality to femShep. A Miranda who was open to a femShep would be bisexual though. I have no problems divorcing the sexuality of a character in one universe from that character's sexuality in another.
 

Yeah, how silly of me to assume a man that constantly flirts with women, expresses a desire to have sex with them on multiple occassions, and doesn't outright express any desire to be with men can all of a sudden turn into a raging homosexual

Honestly, I hope they just end the whole romance nonsense to begin with and get back to making great plots and stories..

Right, because homosexuals and bisexuals never hide their sexuality from others or outright lie about it. And I like your scorched earth policy when things don't go your way or your position that great plots and stories can't include romances. Real big of you.

[Youknow]

[quote]silentassassin264 wrote...
Exactly.  There is absolutely no reason to assume Thane, Garrus, or Jacob absolutely had to be straight and not bi since the game give you no opportunity to ask and defaults to a neutral option.  And Jack admits she is bi with the boyfriends or girlfriends but seems (at least to me) to tell Shepard to ****** off because Shep doesn't seem to show any romantic interest in her like she assumes maleshep does.  Therefore it is rather stupid to act like it would be a retcon to make any of them bi since it is never established that they weren't bi.  You can't retcon something that was never established.

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No, there isn't, because Sheperd's dialogue is lacking. However, having the characters be straight, gay or bisexual? I don't see anything wrong with them being straight or gay. 

If they make the character come out, I don't care, but it's kind of weak if they all come out as bisexual, and then there aren't any dialogue differences. I mean, there should be considering that the ME3 romances of S/S had just started in 3 while the opposite gender is a continued romance. 


[quote]Nyoka wrote...

[quote]Youknow wrote...

It's more efficient for the maximum amount of choices. In your case, of course it requires less resources: you're offering less choice! You might as well just make them all straight or all gay, and you'll be spending even less resources That's not the point. The point is: given a love interest, writing one romance for both sexes is more efficient than writing two different romances. So if you want to give all players the same number of LIs, making all of them available for both sexes assures you're giving the maximum amount of choice in the most efficient way.

Looking at your example, If you can only afford to write 8 romances, you can have 4 love interests available for both sexes, instead of just 2. On the other hand, if you have already decided to have 6 romanceable characters, make them available to both sexes and suddenly each player has 6 romances instead of 2, regardless of gender or sexuality, and any other way to give 6 romances to all players is less efficient. That's the point.

But having more choice is a bad thing for some reason? The fact that you will need to make another character who you may not like as much as your original one and play the whole game again with that character just so you can romance the one whose personality you like the most is a good thing?
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I see nothing wrong with some being straight or gay. This is fighting for same sex romance-- which I completely support. What I don't support is everyone being bisexual constantly. What's the point of it? How does it even feel like romance at that point? 

If only afford 8 romances then I would afford 8 romances. I'd rather it be the way I said with 6 people for romances rather than just 4 romances. 

I would have to remake a new character to experience the other romances anyways. Whether they were gay, straight, or bisexual. Unless you can somehow save scum to see all of their romances back-to-back. In which case, are you even really romancing then?