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[Comsky159]

Ravensword wrote...

I know about the Genesis comic. I just thought that they were gonna make something similar to the Genesis comic for ME3.

I'm hoping that she's both an o/s and an s/s option. The question is, why do you think that she won't be a romance option for Shepard in ME3?

Take for example the fact you couldn't instigate a new relationship with Liara in ME2. I think because it would be slightly bizarre to implement a whole novel romance labyrinth/pathway again, whilst also forming a believable continuation of the ME2 romance on the side. At some point too these seperate pathways would have to converge, regardless of whether the romance was being founded in the present or had been already in the prior game. For a character to remain a legitimate option, there would be a lot of additional variables and high levels of easily and justifiably avoided complexity here, to the extent that probably either the new romances would have to miss out on a fully  fleshed out romance, or alternatively the fact that a romance already exists would be largely ignored for the sake of that new romance. Both being well integrated is possible, but an utter waste of time really when you can just play through ME2 or tick a box in an interactive prelude.

It's probable that people are going to be unhappy either way, safer and more logical to do it through a Genesis style comic if at all. If liara didn't get any special treatment in the following game, there's no way anyone else will out of the ME2 bunch.

[Ravensword]

Comsky159 wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

I know about the Genesis comic. I just thought that they were gonna make something similar to the Genesis comic for ME3.

I'm hoping that she's both an o/s and an s/s option. The question is, why do you think that she won't be a romance option for Shepard in ME3?

Take for example the fact you couldn't instigate a new relationship with Liara in ME2. I think because it would be slightly bizarre to implement a whole novel romance labyrinth/pathway again, whilst also forming a believable continuation of the ME2 romance on the side. At some point too these seperate pathways would have to converge, regardless of whether the romance was being founded in the present or had been already in the prior game. For a character to remain a legitimate option, there would be a lot of additional variables and high levels of easily and justifiably avoided complexity here, to the extent that probably either the new romances would have to miss out on a fully  fleshed out romance, or alternatively the fact that a romance already exists would be largely ignored for the sake of that new romance. Both being well integrated is possible, but an utter waste of time really when you can just play through ME2 or tick a box in an interactive prelude.

It's probable that people are going to be unhappy either way, safer and more logical to do it through a Genesis style comic if at all. If liara didn't get any special treatment in the following game, there's no way anyone else will out of the ME2 bunch.

I see your point except for the fact that in LotSB you were actually able to continue the romance w/ her and there was also a romance scene. Does this mean that among the probable cavalcade of ME3 DLC that is bound to come out, there will be included character specific DLC that includes a character specific mission and romance?

[Athayniel]

Ravensword wrote...

I see your point except for the fact that in LotSB you were actually able to continue the romance w/ her and there was also a romance scene. Does this mean that among the probable cavalcade of ME3 DLC that is bound to come out, there will be included character specific DLC that includes a character specific mission and romance?

You couldn't start a romance with her in LotSB though. That's the point.

[ElitePinecone]

Comsky159 wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

I know about the Genesis comic. I just thought that they were gonna make something similar to the Genesis comic for ME3.

I'm hoping that she's both an o/s and an s/s option. The question is, why do you think that she won't be a romance option for Shepard in ME3?

Take for example the fact you couldn't instigate a new relationship with Liara in ME2. I think because it would be slightly bizarre to implement a whole novel romance labyrinth/pathway again, whilst also forming a believable continuation of the ME2 romance on the side. At some point too these seperate pathways would have to converge, regardless of whether the romance was being founded in the present or had been already in the prior game. For a character to remain a legitimate option, there would be a lot of additional variables and high levels of easily and justifiably avoided complexity here, to the extent that probably either the new romances would have to miss out on a fully  fleshed out romance, or alternatively the fact that a romance already exists would be largely ignored for the sake of that new romance. Both being well integrated is possible, but an utter waste of time really when you can just play through ME2 or tick a box in an interactive prelude.

Basically this. 

It's a lot of work, and (like Comsky said) I can't see why there'd be another entire romance pathway when the original was just one game ago. 

Bioware have a lot of resources for ME3, and they want to satisfy most of what players are asking for - but another opportunity to romance six characters that you could've romanced just one game ago, and whose presence in ME3 isn't guaranteed for every playthrough, seems like a bit of a stretch. 

I'm assuming they'd want to maximise the amount of content that could be accessed by everybody, especially for niche stuff like the romances. Putting in one or two conversations with all the former LIs is one thing (and we know that, at a minimum, that's guaranteed) but a whole separate 'new romance' pathway is another. 

At least for the VS it's a fifty-fifty thing, and new characters (in whatever form the romances come, as squadmates or static NPCs on the Normandy or around the universe) are going to be new in every possible universe, regardless of player choices. 

The paradoxical downside of player choice is that it actually makes it incredibly difficult and resource-consuming to acknowledge them. The more variables Bioware encodes, the more time and money they have to spend making sure each and every one has an appropriate resolution. 

Six romances in ME2, who could've all died, makes for a huge combination of possibilities in ME3 imports, and I - frankly - don't think any of them will be available for romancing beyond the continuation of something that was established in previous games. Even then, I think 'acknowledgement' would boil down to a cutscene or two and some dialogue. 

People might not like it, but Bioware knew what they were getting into when they decided to make the games' universe persistent across the series, and to make characters that could be killed. 

[Ravensword]

Athayniel wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

I see your point except for the fact that in LotSB you were actually able to continue the romance w/ her and there was also a romance scene. Does this mean that among the probable cavalcade of ME3 DLC that is bound to come out, there will be included character specific DLC that includes a character specific mission and romance?

You couldn't start a romance with her in LotSB though. That's the point.

I failed to make it clear that in such character specific DLC, if you romanced the character in the previous games, then you should be able to do so in ME3 via the DLC.

[Athayniel]

Ravensword wrote...

I failed to make it clear that in such character specific DLC, if you romanced the character in the previous games, then you should be able to do so in ME3 via the DLC.

Do you mean 'if you didn't romance' in that sentence? If you romanced them in a previous game you will continue that romance in ME3 unless you broke it off.

[Ravensword]

Athayniel wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

I failed to make it clear that in such character specific DLC, if you romanced the character in the previous games, then you should be able to do so in ME3 via the DLC.

Do you mean 'if you didn't romance' in that sentence? If you romanced them in a previous game you will continue that romance in ME3 unless you broke it off.

No, but you just answered my question.

[ElitePinecone]

Ravensword wrote...

No, but you just answered my question.

Yeah, they've said all romances will be 'acknowledged' in one way or another - but nobody has any idea what that means  If you had a romance, it'll turn up in ME3 somewhere. Beyond that, we don't know who will be romancable, or re-romancable, or where, or how, or why. 

As for DLC, I think they're starting to plan that now - and I've heard from Casey Hudson and Mac Walters on Twitter that it doesn't necessarily need to be as structured as ME/ME2's. 

Apparently the story of ME3 gives them a lot more room to manoeuvre, so we could even see more character-based stuff that could work with the romances. 

[Quething]

The question in all this is: will characters who are available only by ticky-box be available only to people who could have slept with them in ME2. I still say it would be a good choice on their part to make all "import-only" romances available to and flow perfectly well for s/s Sheps as well as o/s ones. If ME3 opens and a new femShep can a) start a new romance with Ashley/Kaidan, start a new romance with Liara, c) start a new romance with Vega, d) "continue" a romance with Miranda/Tali/Jack/Thane/Garrus/Jacob - that's, to my mind, a much more equitable and efficient use of resources than only allowing a, b, c and half of d.

I know, I know, HORRORS they'd ALL be BI that way.

[KawaiiKatie]

@Quething

....what? Something about ticky-boxes and... multiple choice... and... horros... and... can I get a cheat-sheet? I didn't study.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 01 novembre 2011 - 09:56 .

[Quething]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

@Quething

....what? Something about ticky-boxes and... multiple choice... and... horros... and... can I get a cheat-sheet? I didn't study.

Comsky159 wrote...
Both being well integrated is possible, but an utter waste of time really when you can just play through ME2 or tick a box in an interactive prelude.

If we get a Genesis comic (there seems to be some debate about this), it will involve basically ticking boxes about what we did in previous games. If there are any such variables, it is implausible at best to believe that "existing love interest" will not be among them. And, as Comsky rightly points out, even if they wanted to make ME2 LIs available to new ME3 players, it would be much easier for BioWare to write a single "continued from ME2" romance even for new players and make it available through this method than to write two separate romances, one for new players and one for returning players. If they do that, it would be, again, incredibly easy to simply allow any new Shep to access that content, rather than restricting it by Shepard's gender.

[jeweledleah]

Quething wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...

@Quething

....what? Something about ticky-boxes and... multiple choice... and... horros... and... can I get a cheat-sheet? I didn't study.

Comsky159 wrote...
Both being well integrated is possible, but an utter waste of time really when you can just play through ME2 or tick a box in an interactive prelude.

If we get a Genesis comic (there seems to be some debate about this), it will involve basically ticking boxes about what we did in previous games. If there are any such variables, it is implausible at best to believe that "existing love interest" will not be among them. And, as Comsky rightly points out, even if they wanted to make ME2 LIs available to new ME3 players, it would be much easier for BioWare to write a single "continued from ME2" romance even for new players and make it available through this method than to write two separate romances, one for new players and one for returning players. If they do that, it would be, again, incredibly easy to simply allow any new Shep to access that content, rather than restricting it by Shepard's gender.

the major problem with it is that people who may be importing shepards from prior 2 games and would have romanced these characters as s/s were they given a choice?  are now forced to start over if they want that option instead of continuing their import.

[Quething]

Well, yes.

But it's not like they'd be available as s/s otherwise. Is it better to get Miranda as s/s only as a new Shep, or to never be able to romance her as a femShep at all, period?

(Also, I admit to a degree of selfishness here as a modder; it's relatively simple to hook an existing femShep up with Tali or dudeShep with Thane if you have Gibbed, so any PC or Xbox players with a bit of mod savvy would be able to access that content without starting over as well. That doesn't negate the advantage for even non-modders over permanently locking out that content to everyone, new Shep and old alike, however.)

[Abispa]

IF IF IF they make is to that a comic or other device can check off "s/s lover of Ashley" or "s/s lover of Tali" as though it happened in ME 1 or 2, I'm guessing that means that any mention of their past romantic histories with Shepard will be extremely vague and unspecific so it doesn't contradict the fact that female Shepard has yet to sex either of them while at the same time doesn't contradict that male Shepard has (assuming that the romances will be "cut and paste"). Another reason I doubt that many of the past LIs will be s/s in ME3 save the ones with the greatest fan support.

[Abispa]

How hard would it be for the interactive comic to recognize that NO LIs have been selected within a ME2 save and then allow the player to check off the s/s LI choice if s/he wants? Heck, Bioware may as well provide the fans with a full blown save game editor to allow us to change any variable we want. It would probably be easier.

[ElitePinecone]

I highly doubt there'll be a comic - the article above with a quote by David Silverman even says there won't be (and, yes, I know his reputation but I don't think he'd embellish something like this).

And even if there were, I don't think new ME3 players would be allowed to choose an ME2 LI.

The point about Genesis was that PS3 players could never have played the first game, and would never have had an import file. This isn't the case with ME2 to ME3.

Also, finally, Bioware devs have confirmed multiple times - I've seen the replies on Twitter - that they're never going to release anything that will allow an import into ME3 in which you've s/s romanced an ME/ME2 character, legitimately (modding aside, obviously).

The s/s content will be purely in ME3 with whichever characters they deem it to be with. It *might* work with modded save imports for characters that it isn't mean to work with, but like always there'll probably be dialogue files missing and weird pronouns.

[Ravensword]

Quething wrote...

Well, yes.

But it's not like they'd be available as s/s otherwise. Is it better to get Miranda as s/s only as a new Shep, or to never be able to romance her as a femShep at all, period?

(Also, I admit to a degree of selfishness here as a modder; it's relatively simple to hook an existing femShep up with Tali or dudeShep with Thane if you have Gibbed, so any PC or Xbox players with a bit of mod savvy would be able to access that content without starting over as well. That doesn't negate the advantage for even non-modders over permanently locking out that content to everyone, new Shep and old alike, however.)

What about for the PS3? Could mod savvy people do the same for the PS3? Can I get someone to hack my PS3 and ME2 game data or am I just dreaming here or something?

Here's something that I found from the Tali thread. Seeing how there seems to be some people who like Tali and Merrill I will share this w/ you guys.

[bleetman]

Plenty of fangirls too, as it happens.

[jlb524]

bleetman wrote...

Plenty of fangirls too, as it happens.

There are no girls on the internetz!

[Ravensword]

jlb524 wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Plenty of fangirls too, as it happens.

There are no girls on the internetz!

Absolutely correct. You've said that you are a lesbian which would mean that you are a female but b/c there are no girls on the Internet, you can't be a girl. You will deceive me no more.

Modifié par Ravensword, 02 novembre 2011 - 03:00 .

[Quething]

PS3 files are encrypted, so unfortunately no legit modding for you, Ravensword. (It may be possible to mod saves on a jailbroken PS3, but if you ever use PSN for... well, anything ever, I recommend against jailbreaking).

@Pinecone; They've said that in the context of modded s/s relationships. I'm not aware of any statement they've ever made that says they won't let us start a game with a legitimate game-selected carryover romance.

I'm not saying I think it's remotely likely, mind. I'm just saying they should, and it would be easy for them to do, and it wouldn't even contradict their current policy.

As for there being no girls on the interwebz, of course there aren't. We're women XD

Oh and Abispa: it would be trivially easy for them to release a savegame editor. There's absolutely no way they don't have a save-editing mechanism in-house already; they'd have to have a method of setting import variables on-the-fly in order to do any playtesting. I suspect they do this largely by console, but if the scripts are there it's easy enough to make an app out of them. And even if they didn't have any such mechanism, Gibbed made his editor about three minutes after launch and he had a lot less information to work with than the devs do.

That said, they absolutely never will, for exactly the same reason they won't ever give us a DA2 toolset: some misguided idiot somewhere in the pipeline is convinced it will hurt ME1/ME2 sales.

Modifié par Quething, 02 novembre 2011 - 04:00 .

[ElitePinecone]

 @Quething: True, it's always possible. 
But my gut feeling says that the s/s content will all be with (some) old and (mostly) new characters in ME3, confined to dialogue and actions inside the game itself. 
I'm not opposed to the idea in the slightest, certainly - I think it's fantastic - but I can't see it happening. 
Without any clearer information, though, this whole conversation is a bit circular. Just like practically everything in this thread. 

[Quething]

But chasing our tails around is so much fun 

[Ravensword]

Quething wrote...

PS3 files are encrypted, so unfortunately no legit modding for you, Ravensword. (It may be possible to mod saves on a jailbroken PS3, but if you ever use PSN for... well, anything ever, I recommend against jailbreaking).

https://encrypted-tb...eeBJoZ6qK_X6WRA

[ladyvader]

Quething wrote...

But chasing our tails around is so much fun 

My cats do that daily.  They seem to have fun with it. 

Well, the s/s for femShep might give me a reason to actually use the default femShep for ME3.  Maybe anyway.  I have to see who it is first.  To be honest, I hope it's a new character.  I've romanced everyone possible already.  New people work better for me.  Even if an established character that wasn't a LI in either of the two games.