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♂♂ • ♀♀ For The Love — The Same-Sex Romance Discussion Thread **may contain spoilers**


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#12101
Abispa

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Quething wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

I didn't know you liked Kaidan.


I like all the squaddies, honestly. Except maybe Grunt (who's mostly just sort of there). I don't adore Kaidan the way I do, say, Ash or Kasumi, but he's an interesting character and I enjoy playing through ME1 with him and talking about his character with other ME fans. His romance doesn't really interest me, at least not as a femShep, but as Abispa says, he's a good bro. And I'm curious to see what they'd do with him in an s/s relationship.


Even the most devout Krogan-sexuals like... well... like me find Grunt to be...

-_-

I'd consider it a slap in the face if he is the only Krogan LI available in ME3.

:unsure:

#12102
Guest_liesandpropaganda_*

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Are you crazy? Grunt is my Shepard's child from Wrex. He's also too young to have an intercourse, so please stop this, you're hurting my head

#12103
silentassassin264

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I have to agree with Abispa. Ideally I would love to have the o/s and s/s romances play out uniquely with some different dialogue, different reactions, etc but the problem with that is that Bioware already stated they weren't having exclusive s/s romances. If they went out of there way to make the bi romances unique it would be the same thing as having a unique homosexual romance. They don't believe that it is a good choice of resources so I don't see that happening...unfortunately. I will be content with the "cut and paste" bi options because at least I can get the romance I want.

#12104
ladyofpayne

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Gay love with krogan. Guys, you really...

#12105
ElitePinecone

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silentassassin264 wrote...
I will be content with the "cut and paste" bi options because at least I can get the romance I want.


Yep - although DA2's LIs *did* have slightly different lines depending on the gender of Hawke, didn't they?

It doesn't make it *exclusively* gay/lesbian, because the core of the dialogue is the same, but some added touches can differentiate them from each other. 

#12106
Comsky159

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Edit: Post removed. :devil:

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 03 novembre 2011 - 09:58 .


#12107
ladyofpayne

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Comsky159 You want me to die?! AAAAAAAAAA!

#12108
Drone223

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@Comsky159 

That poster makes me want to :sick:

Okay if I were to make s/s romance's work I would make it on how the two of them are great friends and how them mean a lot to each other it dosen't have to mention anything about being the same gender just the fact that they have a very strong bond between them and how they wish to hold on to it. Thats what romance is about how two people feel for each other just make it work like the romance's in ME1/2

Anyway Bioware I'm looking foward to seeing how the s/s romance's work 

Modifié par Drone223, 03 novembre 2011 - 08:31 .


#12109
Athayniel

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Comsky159 wrote...

ladyofpayne wrote...

Gay love with krogan. Guys, you really...


*snip*


You'd think if their relationship is that far along that they'd be on a Soul Name basis and the hanar could use first person pronouns. Hanar have casual sex it seems...

#12110
shepskisaac

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Comsky159 wrote...

ladyofpayne wrote...

Gay love with krogan. Guys, you really...

"Let's not involve the community in deciding new love interests"

Agree. Last time it happened the Talimance was born. The horror.

#12111
ladyofpayne

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Krogans and Hanars. Very funny.

#12112
bleetman

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My romance is better than your romance.

#12113
Guest_liesandpropaganda_*

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ladyofpayne wrote...

Krogans and Hanars. Very funny.


Don't worry, ME3 m/m option is going to be Isabela

#12114
ladyofpayne

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I'd like to romance Kai Leng.

#12115
ElitePinecone

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bleetman wrote...

My romance is better than your romance.


No, it's only *my* favourite character [x] who is really smart/funny/attractive/skilled! 

All those other people, who like characters [y] and [z], they're so stupid and obsessive and delusional! 

#12116
Ravensword

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ElitePinecone wrote...

bleetman wrote...

My romance is better than your romance.


No, it's only *my* favourite character [x] who is really smart/funny/attractive/skilled! 

All those other people, who like characters [y] and [z], they're so stupid and obsessive and delusional! 


So true.

#12117
Sethan_1

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One of the other threads regarding s/s romance got me thinking about this.

First let me say up front that I have not read the previous 485 pages of this thread and don't plan to, so if this has been pointed out before, ignore this post and move on. 

Some folks want s/s romances, some don't.  Both want a game that caters to their preferences, at least to some extent.  I get that.  Some people have asked for a button or .ini setting to turn off s/s romance.  I can see both sides of that argument too, but there's an easier/better way to deal with it.

I'm a hetero male, and I'll freely admit I was a bit taken aback in DA2 when Anders decided my Hawke looked tasty.  I was given a choice of two dialogue options where I could be an ass to him and one that wasn't, chose to not be an ass, and suddenly I was about to be in a relationship with someone whose plumbing is all wrong from my perspective.

The reason I was taken aback is that never happens to me in real life (a quick mirror check confirms I am not Quasimodo).  It doesn't happen to most straight people in real life.  The reason why is pretty straightforward: most people don't try to hook up with someone (outside a bar scene) they've just met.  In between first meeting and the point at which someone makes advances, there are almost always opportunities for both people to express their gender preferences in either subtle or overt ways that do not involve hitting on the other person.  Granted, it has historically been more accepted in our culture for hetero people to express their gender preference than for gays or bisexuals to do so, (though by the time of the ME series that may no longer be true).  Nonetheless, once that has happened most people whose gender preferences don't match up write that person off as a possible romantic interest.

So, the simple method to make everyone happy is to put some dialog options in that create those subtle social cues, which determine which romance options are available with which NPCs.

If my Shepard makes it clear to a male squadmember that he is only interested in women, that male squadmember should not be trying to initiate a romance with my Shepard later on, even if we are otherwise great friends.

This method was used in reverse with Zevran in DA:O - Zevran makes it clear early on that he is bisexual (long before he expresses interest in the Warden), which allowed a player to choose his dialog accordingly.

#12118
ElitePinecone

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Thanks for the thoughtful post.

We obviously don't know what Bioware are going to do, but it's probably fair to say they've learnt from some of the negative reaction to Anders - David Gaider, who was in charge of DA2's writing, said he probably wouldn't make that happen again if he had the chance to re-write it.

I can't speak for every fan of s/s romances - I'm sure some would insist that removing the option for a squadmate to hit on you is tantamount to giving in to complaints - but I'm firmly of the opinion that it's better not to annoy or frustrate people, and that it's still certainly possible to have good s/s romances without having them start it.

What do do know, though, is that all romances in ME3 will be reactive and responsive to what the player does, not the other way around. Here's how Casey Hudson put it:

Image IPB

'Reactive to how you interact with them in-game' seems, to me, to mean that the player has to initiate everything. This is fine.

Frankly, I think Bioware were a bit dismayed by some of the response to Anders in DA2. It was certainly more visceral and louder than what people said about Zevran.

I'm not excusing those people - some of it was people complaining unreasonably and not recognising their own privilege - but I understand that Bioware has to juggle things very carefully. I suspect they're also being risk averse and cautious about s/s in ME3; the very positive response it's got from many people has been met by some very stupid criticism from others.

Long story short: I don't think you'll have anything to worry about. The romances will most likely be player-initiated, and it'll be obvious which lines lead to romancing. Mass Effect games have never given any negative consequences for rejecting romances, and I doubt they're going to start now. Bioware have an interest in making sure the s/s romances can be accessed by people who want them, and avoided by those who don't.

#12119
Estelindis

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Sethan, I agree with your post. On the other hand, Bioware games haven't exactly come up trumps in subtle social cues in many other areas, so hoping for them in this one may be unrealistic.

I would just like to say, though, that any such system as outlined above would have to work both ways: it should give gay PCs a way to signal their preference so that they don't get hit on by straight characters. Otherwise, I'd rather there was no such method at all. If there's going to be some flirtatious conversation that ends up making some people uncomfortable, by all means let it be equal opportunities discomfort. ;-)

EDIT: Regarding Anders, I recall David saying that he felt some LIs should be the first to show interest in Hawke, rather than all of them waiting for Hawke to initiate it.  I actually agree with him.  The only way to make it better, I think, would be to follow Sethan's suggestion that there be a way to signal one's PC's sexual preference.  After that, some LIs could try to begin a romance while others would wait for Hawke to make the first move.

Modifié par Estelindis, 03 novembre 2011 - 12:25 .


#12120
shepskisaac

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Estelindis wrote...

I would just like to say, though, that any such system as outlined above would have to work both ways: it should give gay PCs a way to signal their preference so that they don't get hit on by straight characters. Otherwise, I'd rather there was no such method at all. If there's going to be some flirtatious conversation that ends up making some people uncomfortable, by all means let it be equal opportunities discomfort. ;-)

100% this. If they're gonna implement hints as a message for NPCs not to bother, it needs to be done for everyone, especially with female NPCs and gay Sheps. Female NPCs in ME franchise were so much harder to turn down than male NPCs.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 03 novembre 2011 - 12:30 .


#12121
bleetman

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At least with Anders you're given the very clear option to tell him "no". Several, in fact. I remember no such thing when Isabela propositions Hawke in the Chantry, who automatically smirks and ****s and eyebrow. Or when she continues to flirt in conversation, over and over.

Not that I'm female and/or heterosexual, so it's entirely possible I'm just not going to be annoyed by a sexy lady flirting with my character, but I don't recall anywhere near the level of vitriol from female players that Anders invoked from males. Or any at all, really.

I do generally prefer player intiated over the rather bizarre conga line of horny crewmembers lining up to make eyes at male Shepard that ME2 had, but one or two characters doing it, with a choice of response? Can't see how that's so unbearable.

[edit] Oh, BSN profanity filter. You so silly with your inability to recognise context in words.

Modifié par bleetman, 03 novembre 2011 - 01:41 .


#12122
Guest_liesandpropaganda_*

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I know some femshep players are annoyed by overly flirty asari

#12123
bleetman

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Sure, but to the point of posting a dozen threads about how they'll never buy another Bioware game again? :P

#12124
Ravensword

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Oh, it's nothing but useless grandstanding. They'll probably purchase BW games in the future.

#12125
Comsky159

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IsaacShep wrote...

Comsky159 wrote...

ladyofpayne wrote...

Gay love with krogan. Guys, you really...

"Let's not involve the community in deciding new love interests"

Agree. Last time it happened the Talimance was born. The horror.

AHA! see what you did there Mr Issac. However I played ME2 first and encountered her as a romance option originally, so I may guiltlessly evade the worst of your scorn (in my mind anyway).